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PC Pilot Q&A with MS Flight Spokesperson (Read 4646 times)
Reply #15 - May 15th, 2011 at 7:08pm

Daube   Offline
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There's one point that nobody is considering here: the ever-increasing size of the addons.

That "central marketplace" would imply that all Flight addons will be ONLY downloadable. This is not possible. Some addons, like OrbX scenery or photoreal sceneries, are made of several Gbs of data. I know a lot of people have very nice and fast internet connexions, but that's not the case of a lot of OTHER people, including myself, stuck with a poor 170 kbyte/sec maximum speed... I am SO NOT downloading a xx Gb product. Product sold on DVDs with direct installers have to continue to exist.
 
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Reply #16 - May 15th, 2011 at 10:17pm

JBaymore   Offline
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pete wrote on May 15th, 2011 at 4:35pm:
Quote:
If a civil discussion about an upcoming software release goes downhill it wouldn't be because everyone has different thoughts. If we all agreed, there would be no reason to have these discussions.


Exactly. If there were no sceptical questions and cynicism we'd be looking at a bunch of M$ brainwashed zombies!!  Roll Eyes
Criticism and expression of 'let's hope they don't do THAT again' are part of any healthy debate. FCOL.


Bingo. 

And one HOPES that M$ monitors the various flight sim forums and watches the comments and discussions developing there.  If they think that "the sheep" will simply and quietly follow the path to the slaughterhouse...... they will have no reason to think otherwise and will feel that they can do whatever they want and still succeed.

So far, Microsoft has earned a bit of a "wry glance" at their handling of the flight sim franchise.

best,

....................john
 
... ...Intel i7 960 quad 3.2G LGA 1366, Asus P6X58D Premium, 750W Corsair, 6 gig 1600 DDR3, Spinpoint 1TB 7200 HD, Caviar 500G 7200 HD, GTX275 1280M,  Logitec Z640, Win7 Pro 64b, CH Products yoke, pedals + throttle quad, simpit
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Reply #17 - May 16th, 2011 at 1:46am

BrandonF   Offline
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Steve M wrote on May 15th, 2011 at 4:12pm:
BrandonF wrote on May 15th, 2011 at 3:46pm:
Fr. Bill wrote on May 14th, 2011 at 10:39pm:
Good grief! What a bunch of sourpusses and glass-half-empty curmudgeons...  Cheesy

If MS claimed the sun would rise in the east from now on, you folks would probably doubt that too.  Shocked


Yeah...this is why I hardly visit this place anymore...the Flight forum has gone down hill!  Shocked (wait, was it ever uphill... Grin)


If a civil discussion about an upcoming software release goes downhill it wouldn't be because everyone has different thoughts. If we all agreed, there would be no reason to have these discussions.  Undecided 


For the most part, I don't see different thoughts.

I just don't see any point in criticizing or being a complete worry wart about a game not even in beta testing yet. Maybe we can actually wait and see how things play out in the end...it might be better than we thought. (of course, it could always fail miserably) But we've only seen a few screenshots, videos, and heard about an online store. Looks fine to me so far...as long as it's an improvement, I'm good. (a step backwards would not be good!)

Daube wrote on May 15th, 2011 at 7:08pm:
There's one point that nobody is considering here: the ever-increasing size of the addons.

That "central marketplace" would imply that all Flight addons will be ONLY downloadable. This is not possible. Some addons, like OrbX scenery or photoreal sceneries, are made of several Gbs of data. I know a lot of people have very nice and fast internet connexions, but that's not the case of a lot of OTHER people, including myself, stuck with a poor 170 kbyte/sec maximum speed... I am SO NOT downloading a xx Gb product. Product sold on DVDs with direct installers have to continue to exist.


I don't have the time/interest to wait for a xx GB product to download either. Having a boxed edition of something like Flight Simulator is always nice to have, too. Especially in the future when it becomes "old and outdated." Plus, boxes are just fun.  Cheesy
 
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Reply #18 - May 16th, 2011 at 4:20pm

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Quote:
New Light wrote on Yesterday at 12:52:32:

   If MS can deliver 80% of what they are saying now, I'd be grateful.

   As far as the marketplace comment is concerned, haven't we spent at least some money on FS9? I know I did. And I've dumped at least a grand on add-ons for FSX. After purchasing FSX ($80), Accelerate ($60), then UTX USA, Canada & Europe, GEX North America & Europe, FEX, REX, AFX, IS2, Carenado aircraft are running an average of $30, Real Air and A2A aircraft even more expensive, UT2, Ultime Sound, Heli 2009, MTX, Traffic X - it adds up kinda quick doesn't it? Then there are all the cool Saitek and Go Flight products also - that's nice chunk of change in itself.

   The point being is, that we ARE going to spend a boatload of money on the sim. MS knows this, and the aftermarket companies know this also. All hobbies are expensive, this one is no different unfortunately... 

Semper Fi,

Dave


OMG! Me $0

I actually have free access to 100's of payware that gets uploaded to our site every week but obviously don't get posted (they are all in the backups - 100's of them - probably most of existing payware). I tried a couple but I didn't see a huge improvement over the best freeware so they don't get used by me.

Some spend. Most, including me, don't


   Wow! lemme get this straight. You can download Flight 1, Carenado, Aerosoft, A2A, etc. , fully registered products, for free ?!?!

Uhh... sh1t! Is it really legal and sanctioned by the companies? Where can I get to these?

Thanks,

Dave
 
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Reply #19 - May 16th, 2011 at 4:30pm

pete   Offline
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Quote:
   Wow! lemme get this straight. You can download Flight 1, Carenado, Aerosoft, A2A, etc. , fully registered products, for free ?!?!

Uhh... sh1t! Is it really legal and sanctioned by the companies? Where can I get to these?

Thanks,

Dave


mmm... I run simviation. I'm referring to the illegal stuff that get's uploaded but not posted.   Cool ... or did you not realise that?
« Last Edit: May 17th, 2011 at 5:37am by pete »  
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Reply #20 - May 17th, 2011 at 12:24pm

New Light   Offline
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   I didn't know you ran SimV. Admin is admin as far as I know, most are moderators.

   I've been in the payware section before, but all I saw were textures for payware aircraft. Where can I find these products? Oh and, I do know of some sites where illegal products have been uploaded to before.

Thanks,

Dave
 
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Reply #21 - May 17th, 2011 at 4:06pm

pete   Offline
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I probably approve only 60% of what gets uploaded here. As a former aircraft designer I knwo what I am looking at so I check anything out if it comes from an unknown uploader. A lot of stuff just won't work - I either fix it or it is not posted on the site. Part of all this is that payware products get uploaded several times per week. Once I made the mistake of going on vacation and getting someone else to approve uploads - we had about 6 payware products in the weekly uploads and more than just a few complaints from Dave Brice (Iris), Phil Perrot (Virtuavia) .. etc  ...  Roll Eyes However I've known all these guys a long time so there were no bad feelings  ........   after I bent over backwards apologising ....  Grin

Back to the central question:

Will MS Flight allow open and easy input into it's development (which will mean freeware too) ?

And accepting that 'Flight Simulation' is a niche interest - are they interested in attracting the long term followers that the Flight Simulator series attracted? or are they going to aim this at the 'Lock On' gaming type audience?
 
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Reply #22 - May 18th, 2011 at 1:50pm

Fr. Bill   Offline
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What part of "...we're building from the ground up focusing on the "purist" simmer..." was unclear?

Seems to me to be pretty unambiguous...  Wink
 
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Reply #23 - May 18th, 2011 at 3:49pm

pete   Offline
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Fr. Bill wrote on May 18th, 2011 at 1:50pm:
What part of "...we're building from the ground up focusing on the "purist" simmer..." was unclear?

Seems to me to be pretty unambiguous...  Wink

Well for starters ..  The 'Central Marketplace' ..

Let me say again -- this is not negative -- 'Flight Simulator' was a brilliant series that was built and thrived on open user input.

Control? WE, the community,  don't want M$ to be in control of 'Flight' addons. If they are it is simply not the 'Flight Simulation Community' -which thrived only because of free and open input by the community on uncontrolled sites like this one.
« Last Edit: May 18th, 2011 at 6:16pm by pete »  
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Reply #24 - May 19th, 2011 at 10:04am

JBaymore   Offline
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Fr. Bill wrote on May 18th, 2011 at 1:50pm:
What part of "...we're building from the ground up focusing on the "purist" simmer..." was unclear?

Seems to me to be pretty unambiguous...  Wink



Parsing........

".....building from the ground up....."

Could easily mean that "all the rules from before are no longer in effect".  Or "starting completley over with the concept".  So anything that we have done previously might no longer be the case.  That could apply to a LOT of things.  Some potentially good... some potentially not so good ("Central Marketplace"????).


".......focusing on the "purist" simmer......"

All gets down to what THEY are defining as the "purist".  I know some pretty darn "purist" game players.  Very serious and dedicated to what they do.  I also know some "purist" GA simmers.  And some "purist" aluminum cigar types.


From the Dictionary.......

purism  (ˈpjʊəˌrɪzəm) 

— n   
insistence on traditional canons of correctness of form or purity of style or content, esp in language, art, or music 

'purist 

— adj , — n   

pu'ristic 

— adj   

pu'ristically 

— adv
 
American Psychological Association (APA):
purist. (n.d.). Collins English Dictionary - Complete & Unabridged 10th Edition. Retrieved May 19, 2011, from Dictionary.com website: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/purist



Doesn't really help much, does it?



In the general statement as issued in CP... they have deliberately "said little", just as polititians typically do. 

best,

.............john
 
... ...Intel i7 960 quad 3.2G LGA 1366, Asus P6X58D Premium, 750W Corsair, 6 gig 1600 DDR3, Spinpoint 1TB 7200 HD, Caviar 500G 7200 HD, GTX275 1280M,  Logitec Z640, Win7 Pro 64b, CH Products yoke, pedals + throttle quad, simpit
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Reply #25 - May 19th, 2011 at 11:06am

New Light   Offline
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Quote:
All gets down to what THEY are defining as the "purist".  I know some pretty darn "purist" game players.  Very serious and dedicated to what they do.  I also know some "purist" GA simmers.  And some "purist" aluminum cigar types.


   I definately fall into the serious GA category. In other posts, I've asserted my opinion, that I hope "Flight" gets back to the basics of flight simulation. I hope that as a "purist" flight simulator, we can get some better cockpits, avionics that hopefully continue with more glass panels, better ATC, emergency procedures, and the like. Hopefully there will also be more room in the new program to better accept external hardware such as products by companies like Go Flight and Saitek.

   I have also pointed out in earlier posts, that the program title "Flight" might be MS's first admitance that they might be parting from actual flight simming and showcasing sub-disciplines instead. I hope I'm wrong in my thinking that "Flight" will become an aviation photoshop.

   I do understand that there are many fine sub-disciplines to flight sim, but simulating flight operations on land and in the air is what I, personally, always looked for. Hopefully they will do right for us. I do enjoy overhauling airports, writing AI flight plans, etc. But to me the main idea of those sub-disciplines is to enhance the ground and airbourne ops.

   Also, I hope that there will be plenty of room for freeware as there are many, many great designers and developers who make some fine aircraft and textures for existing aircraft.

Semper Fi,

Dave
 
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Reply #26 - May 19th, 2011 at 12:35pm

Fr. Bill   Offline
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"...and sometimes a cigar is just a cigar."

While it might be entertaining, endless speculation on and parsing of what is officially mentioned is just that... entertainment.

It most certainly isn't something for which one's blood-pressure should rise out of control!  Cheesy

For many reasons I've found myself wishing MS Game Studios would have just kept their virtual mouths shut and simply surprised everyone in 2012...
 
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Reply #27 - May 19th, 2011 at 2:26pm

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Fr. Bill wrote on May 19th, 2011 at 12:35pm:
For many reasons I've found myself wishing MS Game Studios would have just kept their virtual mouths shut and simply surprised everyone in 2012...


Ah, but it's only natural for a human to wonder what kind death shall s/he have to die. Tongue

Or, in this case, wonder if the surprise will be of the nice kind or the mournful one.

I rest my already all too much explained opinion, bolstered by the marketplace thinghy, but can't help strongly hope my fears will be blown away and a great thing will come out instead...

...no matter how a long shot it is... hope, spring eternal. Undecided
 
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Reply #28 - May 21st, 2011 at 8:00am

JBaymore   Offline
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Fr. Bill wrote on May 19th, 2011 at 12:35pm:
For many reasons I've found myself wishing MS Game Studios would have just kept their virtual mouths shut and simply surprised everyone in 2012...


Yeah... but they didn't.  And they have clearly chosen to talk in generalities and with "polititian speak"........  vague crap that could mean most anything.  They bring this speculation on themselves. 

It would be VERY easy to articulate exactly that approch that they are taking with this.  They aren't.  By now there HAS to be a clear vision qwith a set of goals and objectives in place.  They know exactly what "Flight" will be.  But they want to "work the system" to create interest and curiosity.  It will drive sales.

It is deliberate marketing.  A lot of marketing types believe that there is no such thing as "bad press".  All press is useful.

No "knickers in a knot" here for me......... I am still running fs2004 because of the investment in the simpit and the nature of FSX.  The likelyhood of me switching over to "Flight" is slim.... unless thay somehow make a lot of the interfacing into the sim's internal variables VERY simple and rearward compatible.

There is still enough freeware and payware available for fs2004, and enough simpit stuff to do, to keep me happy (and broke  Wink) for years.

best,

...................john
 
... ...Intel i7 960 quad 3.2G LGA 1366, Asus P6X58D Premium, 750W Corsair, 6 gig 1600 DDR3, Spinpoint 1TB 7200 HD, Caviar 500G 7200 HD, GTX275 1280M,  Logitec Z640, Win7 Pro 64b, CH Products yoke, pedals + throttle quad, simpit
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Reply #29 - Jun 7th, 2011 at 4:04am

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JBaymore wrote on May 14th, 2011 at 4:54pm:
Fr. Bill wrote on May 14th, 2011 at 1:34pm:
Q4: Will there be an opportunity for third-parties to produce products for Microsoft Flight?

A4: Microsoft...we are creating the tools and facilities to enable external content to all users.....we recognize we can't do it all!!! At the heart of the new approach is a new integrated marketplace....and we are not ready to reveal the full details on this new concept yet. The basic idea is to make the entire user base more aware of all the third party applications as only a small percentage of the total user base are currently aware of all these add-ons. The goal is to empower the entire user base to pick and choose from this vast number of products available to them.[/color]



That one is a little "concerning".  Sounds like they might be wanting all addons....... payware and freeware ....located in a place that THEY can control. 

Does this portend the end of independent freeware sharing sites?   

Hard to say, but it is one possible read of that answer.

The word "marketplace" there is a loaded one for sure.  It has a total connotation of BUYING.  While there might be a "sale" or a "giveaway" to entice some otehr business, the word "market" in "marketplace" implies commerce, which implies payments.


best,

..................john


Sounds like the Apple Store format. They control EVERYTHING. Nothing gets put on your computer unless it has been approved by them first.

Basically if they approve then and only then is your software allowed and of course they skim their cut off the top.

Ah well. Jailbreak the GameStore anyone?
 
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