Asus Rampage Formula/ Q6600 G0/ Mushkin 996535 1066 DDR

*had* 3.6 stable on 680i chipset @ 800FSB memory 5-5-4-12-2T
--------

Currently max at 3.24 (360x9)
vCore Auto  (1.32)
NB Auto
Dram Voltage - 2.20 - 5-5-4-12-2T
Max temp 59C under OCCT

Lots of settings on this mobo - I'm guessing next step is to take vCore out of auto but what about NB? When should that voltage get tweaked?

Tried jumping to 400FSB with vCore 1.45 and 1066 memory but failed OCCT and temps git up to 68C.

Just not sure what next step should be with this mobo.

Vic

BTW

If you ever get a real processor, like a Q9650 (Pquad 9 mult) or a QX series proc. ... set FSB to 450, verify the memspeed is 1066-1086, vcore must be reduced due to P Quad (45nm) to 1.28-1.36 max (65nm to 1.45v at 8x) and rock your world

Sam over at Avsim is dangerous to FSX users..  his Q6600 recomendation is based on his limitations on that crap P35 elcheapo DDR2 budget board he runs

vgbaron wrote on Oct 11^th, 2008 at 1:52am:



http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115130

http://forums.avsim.net/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=197&topic_id=43631&mode=...

vgbaron wrote on Oct 11^th, 2008 at 2:15am:



thats strange... let me check BIOS calcs... I may have forgot the 400 and remembered the 450 option on memory divider at 333...

LOL  I rember that Durning clip.  BTW, that $300 price was for a q9550 not 9650. AFter 15min temps in Coretemp are 61C and OCCT says 45

Still running tho.

Maybe I'll give myself an "I like me" present of a q9650.

4.0 sound cool to an old fart like me. 

hey on liquid you may be able to nail a few MHz higher than 400 x9... give it shot but remember... max vcore is 1.5 with LLC ENABLED and temp is 75c max on OCCT

NickN wrote on Oct 11^th, 2008 at 2:32am:



OCCT shows one CPU temp - uses Everest - 45 max load an 27 at idle.
Coretemp shows 61/38 - am I missing somethng here?

ordered q9650 smooth talker! 

Here ya go!

400 gives me 1066 available. Booted with no problem - running OCCT as we speak - temps still same  54C coretemp

download and install this

http://www.tweakers.fr/memset.html

may ask for a reboot.. dont remember.. if so, do as it commands


once ready, fire it up and post the readout

if my guess is right and the moon and the stars line up with the numbers.. your just entering the FSX zone which is the best you are going to do on DDR2 and the Q6600 with the memory you are running


with that Q9650 you are actually 'in' the FSX zone

it may be possible to squeak just a tad more out of the system as is but I need to see the memset readout and the benchmark


its way late here so if I dont pst back its because I had to hang it up for the night but will be back tomorrow morning to check in

vgbaron wrote on Oct 11^th, 2008 at 3:26am:



OK I will wait

your do'in sweet... much easier than that nvidia board

OK

here is the final tuning part and it may not work


In MemSET the setting at the bottom tREF (Refresh Period) in the dropdown, set it to the HIGHEST T value... thats the highest number with a T at the end...


Next... PERFORMANCE LEVEL...   in the dropdown, set it to 7

click Apply


now here is the deal.. either the system will continue to run or it will LOCK. If it locks we have gone as far as we can.. just hard reset and thats the best you are going to do

If it DOES NOT lockup... you MAY still be unstable... you will need to run the OCCT test for 1hour to confirm it is or is not stable... however, if it does not lock when you hit apply... rerun the Everest benchmark and post the result before running OCCT

if it FAILS the OCCT 1 hour test let me know and we may... 'might' be able to trim SKEW and get you that PL level 7... if its stable then your done and ready to rock in FSX

BE AWARE you may still lock up after a long period of time in FSX if the system is borderline on 7

note: when you reboot it will default and you will need to make those 2 settings again after a reboot

Once you CONFIRM the 2 settings I gave you for MEMSET are stable ... set them and click SAVE which will BOOT with the new settings automatically

so far so good!

Thanx! Good night!

Good Morning Nick -

Success at 6!

Tried 5 but locked up.  





I can't say I understand it but I'm getting a feel for the relationship between the parts.

Let me see if I can get my 71 year old brain cells around this:

What we just did is between the memory, the mobo and the FSB and is not dependant upon the CPU other than it determines the FSB max.

So, when the Q9650 arrives and I try to kick the FSB up to 450, my main concern is keeping this memory at 1066 and the vCore lower.

Question about memset - since I 'saved' the settings, I'm getting the "error" sound on boot - no problems, no messages, nothing in the event viewer. The settings have taken because the Everest bench is the same. Can/should these settings be done in the BIOS or leave well enough alone.



Thanx!

Vic

Almost forgot..

When you make a change to MemSet and wish to boot the new change

1. Make settings change
2. Click APPLY
3. Click DEL SAVE
4. Accept the delete and then accept saving

that will make and save your change for boot

You should boot Windows, start memset and just verify you are on the tRD and tREF you saved.. from that point on its automatic


I bet you will now see a solid difference in FSX


Clocking your video card is last... Assuming you DO overclock your video card now.. when you get the new proc and run 450 FSB you may (or may not) need to back off the core and memory overclock on the video card if you see any instability. Raising FSB does increase the possibility of PCie instability with a high VC clock but you make up for that by setting the FSB and STRAP as listed

you are most welcome Vic

Just head back to this thread and use it as a reference when ever you need to in the future.

It pretty much covers the process for any clock

Remember.. if you end up with a intermittant lockup test with PL at 7 and if the lockups stop we can try and make a few other BIOS changes to stablize PL6 for you which will run FSX much better

delete any saved Memset in windows

yes, reset the BIOS back to a normal operation till you get the processor in and verified its working

Dont try clocking anything till you confirm you are good to go then start setting up the clock and testing just like you did in the beginning of this thread... except FSB will be 450... then check the CPU STRAP for the correct value which displays 1066-1080 memory speed... probably the 333 STRAP

more than likely vcore will be somewhere around 1.28-1.30, NB around 1.55

because you are going to 450MHz its possible you wont get to PL 6 on the memory.. but do it one step at a time... processor/FSB clock first, then work out memset

ok installed and beginning the procedure. One question comes up - I'm using Coretemp 0.99.3 and it shows TJM of 100C

Temps under load ( OCCT )
53
47
59
59

6C difference between Core0 & 2&3?

I removed, cleaned and reapplied arttic silver 5 according to layout on their site.

I noticed at idle the readings were
38
37
47
47

I realize the compound has to burn in but just haven't seen this difference before.

Vic

ok - at vCore 1.256 3.8G

Max temp under Occt 30 minutes -  54C on core 0 and 62C on core3

now going to try 450

at 450/333 strap mem speed options are 980 or 1081 - trying 1081.

At 450/400 strap its up around 1200

just checked the BIOS math... yep, you should also notice the base PL is higher too. According to the numbers you should not be running 8 by default

Remember you have made a major gear shift on the northbridge so running PL6 is not required however the lower that value the better


Based on the temps you are at the max now.. but you wont hit those numbers running FSX

I dont know what HSF you are using but the OCZ Vendetta2 would probably be a good investment and when you use thermal compound you only need a tiny drop spread as thin as an onion skin.. not a thick paste.


You should definitely be seeing a change in FSX even over what you were seeing before. The proc you are using now is 10% more efficient clock per clock even not overclocked and using the lower latency across the NB 12-15%+ on the same GHz is a reasonable estimate of the advantage.. in other words, even if you were only running 3.6GHz you would still be 12-15% faster than the Q6600. Because you are now at 4050... I dont have to tell you the rest

Welcome to the "Pro" club

Uh geeze...  brain fart

LOL

Sorry.. I forgot... lately I have been doing hit and runs on threads being busy with GEX

That’s right, you are on liquid. Yes, reduce the thermal compound. The AS site in my opinion is a bit off on their suggestion of application. I use AS Ceramique instead of the standard AS product. Ceramique holds up longer and does not require consistent replacement over time where their regular product has about a 4-6 month breakdown period and needs to be re-applied. Ceramique is much thicker and has a higher heat breakdown threshold. Its designed for hotter quads. Although its not the same formula as the standard AS product it does the job on a thin coat just as I described above and can go a year+ or longer before needing a change.

I personally spread the compound with a new razor blade and establish a nice thin even coat across the entire surface of the proc.. another thing I do is lap the processor too.. the process flattens the proc, removes any distortion in the cap plate and also exposes the copper face by removing the tin coating allowing better thermal conductivity

http://www.thetechrepository.com/showthread.php?t=71

you may need to raise NB to lower vcore.. you know the drill.. work it out

As for mirror finish.. it wont make the temp any better.. flat and clean is the key and mirror is not necessary however it doesnt hurt either

OK!  STable at 4.06 vCore 1.312 NB 1.47

Tried PL6 but system humg so it's PL7 - bench below

Only question - you mention the 'gear shift' on the NB - is this some sort of hardware or firmware coding that takes over?

NickN wrote on Oct 17^th, 2008 at 1:42pm:



That's a great explanation, Nick - makes it easy to understand.

As far as taking advantage of the hardware - you've made a believer out of me. Even with the Q6600 the difference was noticeable and not just in FSX. Just for example, from the time I push the on button or click restart to ready to go at the desktop - under 1 minute with XP Pro. And my system is not stripped by any means - I tend to run lean but not overly so.

The response with the Q9650 is proportionately better.

It's a good thing I don't have a vidcam on my system or folks would see a bald old guy with a big grin on his face.

Considering the number of hits this thread has had, I'm hoping there are other 'lurkers' who are following along and enjoying the fruits of your expertise.

I like the 'Pro Club'!

Vic

vgbaron wrote on Oct 16^th, 2008 at 8:17pm:



I must have missed this post

That is strange... I have never seen a 10c difference in the other cores

I do know there can be strange vars in motherbord system for these chips which in some cases requires calibration

the only other thing I can think of is that your water block is somehow warped at the spot where the 2-3 cores are located. Its either that or BIOS calibration. I would go by the highest value for now just to be safe however you cant kill the proc.. it just shuts down it goes over tJunction which is about 25c less than tJMax on most processors. So in your case thats about 75c

You can still improve in 2 areas...

the video card and the memory

Because you have DDR2 and not DDR3, and, because you are very close to being maxed, the VC would be a better purchase from the standpoint of more result for the investment.

With the system now chugging along correctly for FSX use a GTX 280 would serve you as an upgrade and a good one. The system you are on now and it's tuned ability can now take real advantage of that 280 and not be bottlenecked.


However, strictly from a cost perspective I would probably give it some time and wait a bit... lets see what they come up with over the next several months.. Between now and then driver dev on the 280 will improve and there may be something released that skirts the 280. Only time will tell.

Nick, I know I know,but...  since following you on this forum I have learned a lot, a big lot about the inside of my computer.  But most of this is over my head, and over the head of my tech who is a really good business computer guy.

Having said that I will be going to the i7 as soon as I can.  Is there a video card to match it with?  I will have to have a new mobo, what should that be? and of course DDR3 RAM.

And then how should I get him to set it up, so it is clocked within limits that aren't going to burn the CPU and void the warranty?

Mostly, will ATi or nVidia have a card out to match the new CPUs?

Nick until I can afford to upgrade my entire system, I am having a good four port 3Way RAID controller installed.

I am also going to have my quad core 6850 overclocked, and also the 8800 GTX.

In both cases I just want to squeeze a bit of extra horsepower out of the cards, but keep them inside temp tolerances.

I know you have posted often on the topic, but can you point me to the thread(s) if any about conservative clocking, but still getting a gain?

I count it a service, as I will give the details to my tech.

Fair comment.  I am at work at the moment so will post them tonight our time.

But off the top it is a

Intel Extreme Quad 6850 3 GHZ
nVidia 8800GTX
4 gigs Cougar 1066mhz RAM
Gigabyte SPxx Motherboard,
X-Fi Soundcard
4HDD; one for the OS and other programmes,
two in RAID0 with FSX only, another partitioned for imaging C and E(raid) drives - using Acronis.
Vista Home Premium 64 bit on C drive

and there will be a 3Ware four port RAID controller installed at the same time.

Download this tool

http://www.cpuid.com/download/cpuz_148.zip

Unzip, run CPUz and post the CPU, mainboard, memory and SPD tabs for me


do you mean a GA-965P-DS3?

http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Products/Motherboard/Products_Overview.aspx?ProductID...

thats a real old chipset

you wont be clocking very far on that board. It wont do 400MHz

It says its a QX  

CPU is Intel Core 2 Extreme QX6850


Is that a typo on your part?

If its QX it would be the blessing you are looking for because 4 sticks of memory on that 3 year old tech motherboard aint gonn'a clock very far

Never by 4 sticks of memory... see the last entry on SPD? If that was 2x2GB you may have a chance of running that memory at 4-4-4 cause right now CAS 5 at DDR2 830 is dog sh.. slow

You may be able to force a 4-4-4-12 2T @ 2.1v memory timing and that would also help but 4 sticks can be very tougn to clock at SPD


The main problem here is the motherboard and the memory.

Go into your BIOS and under the Advanced menu tell me if you see any listing for CPU STRAP and if so, what are the options  (266, 333, 400?)
You may have to set AI Overclocking to MANUAL first to see the rest of the list.. just dont SAVE the BIOS when exiting... just turn the computer off instead of exiting the BIOS when done so you dont save anything wrong

I went in through the start up sequence ..  I can see no mention of a STRAP in any context.

Given the terrible state of the Australian dollar I think that I might have to defer my big upgrade of my system I had planned for a few monts ahead.

Therefore if I can replace my mobo with a new and more versatile version I will do so.  At import prices prior to the crash.


It will still mean DDR2 but frankly the predictions are the present 60cents may well slip to 50 against the greenback, which will put prices of top line components well out of range.

If you are going to upgrade the motherboard, then do the memory and the CPU cooler as well which would put you in a much better position to clock

Motherboard

Best

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131284


Good

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131219



Memory

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145197

or

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820146785


CPU Cooler


http://www.ocztechnology.com/products/cooling_products/ocz_vendetta_2_cpu_cooler




If you are going to change the motherboard then upgrading the memory would be the way to go at the same time so you can get the perf ot of the system. Memory is critical. To run 1066-1080 at 5-5-5 with 400-450MHz FSB as I outlined to Vic you need the right memory product

The QX6850 is a 65nm processor.. its max speed is going to be 3.6GHz. Because its a QX processor the multiplier is available. That is what you pay 1000 bucks for, the multiplier. You did not have to pay 1000 dollars if you did not intend to clock. The Q6700 is the EXACT SAME processor sold for 250 bucks

Unlike the QX68, the Q96 does NOT allow multiplier changes, therefore the STOCK multiplier is locked and you must use 9 for ALL calculations with a Q96 and, you use FSB to increase the CPU speed. The QX6 allows you to increase or decrease the multiplier and therefore you can run faster CPU speeds without changing the FSB which is why they cost 1000+ dollars. It allows pinpoint clocking adjustments where other procs do not.  

You paid for the access to the multiplier. Right now because you paid over a grand for that chip you can go into the BIOS and set the CPU MULTIPLIER to 10 instead of 9 and run 10x333 or 3.33GHz probably without touching the vcore voltage. To hit 3.6HGz you would need to raise the CPU VOLTAGE or vcore voltage and have a heatsink able to handle the heat. A QX6850 will require 1.44-1.45v vcore with the CPU VOLTAGE DAMPER -or- LOAD LINE CALIBRATION (if the BIOS has one of those settings available) ENABLED to run 3.6GHz

It may or may not do 10x333 without a slight increase in CPU VOLTAGE. That is a trial and error check and setting.

The primary goal is to find the stable clock settings on the right voltages. If you purchase the parts I listed above the settings I posted for Vic on the first page of this thread for his Q6600 and DDR2 1066 memory are exactly the same for you, except.. because you have a QX processor you can try an even better clock than he had..   8x450MHz = 3.6GHz @ CPU STRAP 400 and 1080MHz memory speed



I know for a fact the first motherboard I posted will do that and the 2nd one I have seen do 450MHz too.

So with the QX6850 you can run 9x400 = 3.6GHz @ 400 STRAP and 1066 5-5-5-15 -or- change the multiplier and run 8x450 = 3.6GHz @ 400 STRAP and 1080 5-5-5-15 with then memory and motherboards posted above

In both cases the vcore is set to 1.44 or 1.45v and the memory voltage is set to 2.1v...   same settings I posted to Vic

As for temps and stability stress testing..  

http://www.ocbase.com/download.php?fileext=exe   OCCT a CPU and system stress test software


http://www.alcpu.com/CoreTemp/    monitor the CPU core diode temps


Use the software OCCT 1 hour AUTO test with the software CORETEMP. If the processor or memory is unstable that test will show it. That test will also run the CPU core temps SKY HIGH and that is the 2nd goal to be sure the temp of that QX6 remains below 75c for the entire hour of the test... if it doesn’t then either:

CPU heatsink was not installed correctly or too much thermal compound
Tower itself does not have proper venting fans
Vcore too high (never exceed 1.50v CPU VOLTAGE)

NOTE: You may need to manually set the MAX CPU temp in OCCT to 75-80c so the test does not halt. Sometimes that value is set too low by default in the OCCT properties.

That test will stress and heat the CPU far more than FSX or any other application will therefore if the test passes and the temp remain below 75c, your fine

Every processor has a different temp range its safe to use. The 65nm QX series is below 80c DIODE temp. There is a difference between the CPU CASE and CPU DIODE temp,.. the CPU CASE TEMP is usually 15c LOWER than the REAL CORE TEMP which is why one must use special software (as I posted above) to read the TRUE CPU DIODE core temp.

That software will show the value tJ-MAX. tJM is the POINT OF NO RETURN temp of the processor. For the QX6 that 'should' be 100c. Your processor starts to automatically shut down well before that temp however there is another value called tJunction which is the BEGINNING of where the proc begins shutting down. That value is typically 20-25c LESS than tJMax. Therefore we test for max heat and stability using a max allowed diode temp of 20-25c LESS than tJMAX


The Q9650 (wihich is a P-QUAD)  is DIFFERENT for CPU VOLTAGE!  With a Q9650 you NEVER exceed 1.36v. It will also clock to 4050MHz IF you can set the motherboard to 450FSB and be stable. 9x450FSB = 4050     9x400FSB = 3600

To do 4050 you will definitely need that CPU cooler I listed. You can not use the Intel CPU cooler to clock those processors much past 3.4GHz. It may be possible to run 3.6GHz on the Q9650 with the Intel CPU heatsink.. that, I am not sure. You would need to test it as I specified above however any person who clocks knows the fatory heatsinks are really shit.

For 4050MHz (4GHz) the CPU vcore will be right around 1.28-1.32v. For 3.6GHz it will be 1.28v or less.

The temp spec is the same... max load 75c in coretemp

a 400MHz FSB clock is nothing to the boards and memory I posted

Its a very simplistic clock to perform. The trick is when you start pushing the CPU into the FSX zone which is 3.6GHz and higher.

pushing 450 can get a bit tricky but its really not that hard. For a THtGo you need all the CPU, memory speed and video card you can get

any clock requires the user confirm they are running temps and voltages correct, does not matter if its mild, medium or screaming