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Next step on my clock? (Read 8482 times)
Reply #60 - Oct 26th, 2008 at 8:18pm

macca22au   Offline
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Fair comment.  I am at work at the moment so will post them tonight our time.

But off the top it is a

Intel Extreme Quad 6850 3 GHZ
nVidia 8800GTX
4 gigs Cougar 1066mhz RAM
Gigabyte SPxx Motherboard,
X-Fi Soundcard
4HDD; one for the OS and other programmes,
two in RAID0 with FSX only, another partitioned for imaging C and E(raid) drives - using Acronis.
Vista Home Premium 64 bit on C drive

and there will be a 3Ware four port RAID controller installed at the same time.
 
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Reply #61 - Oct 27th, 2008 at 5:10am

macca22au   Offline
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Nick the processor is a Q not QX ...6850  3ghz

The motherboard is s Gigabyte SP965P-DS3

I note a previous comment you made about RAM - mine is 4x 1gig of Cougar 1066 DDR2 RAM.  It wouldn't be too expensive to change, but I will be going to DDR3 early next year.  If you think it wise I will do so.

Tje videocard is an XFI 8800GTX
 
The rest as below.  Let me know if there is anything else that you need.  I am also one of those people reluctant to give up my Matrox TH2Go although I know that it tests the system in a major way.
 
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Reply #62 - Oct 27th, 2008 at 8:56am

NickN   Offline
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FSX runs fine... the problem
is you or your system

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Download this tool

http://www.cpuid.com/download/cpuz_148.zip

Unzip, run CPUz and post the CPU, mainboard, memory and SPD tabs for me


do you mean a GA-965P-DS3?

http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Products/Motherboard/Products_Overview.aspx?ProductID...

thats a real old chipset

you wont be clocking very far on that board. It wont do 400MHz
 
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Reply #63 - Oct 27th, 2008 at 2:42pm

macca22au   Offline
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From CPU-Z

CPU is Intel Core 2 Extreme QX6850@3.000GHZ,
65nm, Socket 775LGA, core voltage 1.296
Clocks core speed 3000 MHZ (varies by .2),  x9, Bus spd 333.3, Rated FSB 1333.4mhz, cache L1 Data 4x32 Kbs, Inst 4x32, Level2 2x4096 Kb

The Mainboard is an S Series, Gigabyte 965-DS3, chipset Intel P965/G965 Rev C2, Southbridge is Intel 82801HB/HR(ICH&R), LPCID is IT8718.  The Bios is Award Software International, F12 dated 05/28/2007.  The graphic interface is PCI-E with a link width x16

Memory is DDR2, 4096 MBytes, DC Mode Symmetric.  Timings are DRAM frequency 416.7 mhz, FSB DRAM 4.5, CAS#latency 5.0 clocks, tRCD and IRP 5.o clocks, cycle time 18 clocks, command rate 27

SPD  Module size 1024mb, Max bandwith PC2-6400 (400mhz), Corsair, SPD extension EPP, week/year 23/06

Timings Table

Freq  Jedec #1 270 Jedec #2  400  EPP#1  400MHZ
Cas Lstency       4.0                5.0               4.0
RAS to CAS          4                   5                   4
RAS precharge      4                   5                   4
IRAS                  13                 18                 12
IRC                    15                 22                 22
Command Rate                                             2T
Voltage                1.8               1.8                 2.100
 
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Reply #64 - Oct 27th, 2008 at 3:47pm

NickN   Offline
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FSX runs fine... the problem
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It says its a QX  

CPU is Intel Core 2 Extreme QX6850


Is that a typo on your part?

If its QX it would be the blessing you are looking for because 4 sticks of memory on that 3 year old tech motherboard aint gonn'a clock very far

Never by 4 sticks of memory... see the last entry on SPD? If that was 2x2GB you may have a chance of running that memory at 4-4-4 cause right now CAS 5 at DDR2 830 is dog sh.. slow

You may be able to force a 4-4-4-12 2T @ 2.1v memory timing and that would also help but 4 sticks can be very tougn to clock at SPD


The main problem here is the motherboard and the memory.

Go into your BIOS and under the Advanced menu tell me if you see any listing for CPU STRAP and if so, what are the options  (266, 333, 400?)
You may have to set AI Overclocking to MANUAL first to see the rest of the list.. just dont SAVE the BIOS when exiting... just turn the computer off instead of exiting the BIOS when done so you dont save anything wrong





 
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Reply #65 - Oct 27th, 2008 at 5:14pm

macca22au   Offline
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It is Q X definitely

I have only had the board since the middle of last year, so its bad news to find it so old.

I am happy to buy 2x2 gig 1066 if that will help.

Sorry to be the amateur but how do I get into the BIOS?
 
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Reply #66 - Oct 27th, 2008 at 5:27pm

macca22au   Offline
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I went in through the start up sequence ..  I can see no mention of a STRAP in any context.
 
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Reply #67 - Oct 27th, 2008 at 6:47pm

NickN   Offline
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FSX runs fine... the problem
is you or your system

Posts: 6317
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macca22au wrote on Oct 27th, 2008 at 5:27pm:
I went in through the start up sequence ..  I can see no mention of a STRAP in any context.



I will download the motherboard manual and get a look at it tomorrow

Throwing money at the memory when you cant get to 400MHz is probably not a good idea.


You really have one foot in the grave and one foot on a bannana peal with this.. first of all you need a better heat sink for the Quad CPU than the shit Intel unit to do any real clocking http://www.ocztechnology.com/products/cooling_products/ocz_vendetta_2_cpu_cooler and this 965 motherboard either has a old BIOS or it does not support maunal CPU STRAP changes, and, the memory may not do 4-4-4 stable with 4 sticks. So the deal is I cant give you strait values I know will work and its going to be up to the tech in trial and error to see what will work, something you may end up needing to tweak when you get it back if for some reason it wont remain stable in hard 3D use and at the same time he may not want to deal with screwing with it to find the sweet spot

Even if you have the right parts you must realize that clocking requires trial/error and testing and sometimes you have to deal with things you may not expect. There is no such thing a 'plug -n-go' when you get into the faster memory even DDR3. The user must enter that BIOS and manually set things up based on the memory purchased even if you DONT clock


Just be aware of that

There is no "reset to default' and DDR3 or high speed DDR memory runs correctly all by itself.. the user must set those values up manually even if the user is not clocking the CPU or memory









 
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Reply #68 - Oct 27th, 2008 at 9:01pm

macca22au   Offline
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Given the terrible state of the Australian dollar I think that I might have to defer my big upgrade of my system I had planned for a few monts ahead.

Therefore if I can replace my mobo with a new and more versatile version I will do so.  At import prices prior to the crash.


It will still mean DDR2 but frankly the predictions are the present 60cents may well slip to 50 against the greenback, which will put prices of top line components well out of range.
 
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Reply #69 - Oct 28th, 2008 at 7:28am

macca22au   Offline
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Nick, as a result of this discussion, I am following your expressed views in a slightly arbitrary way.

I am going to install a 9650 on a new mobo, tech details still to come, with the RAID controller.

This means that I can get the parts at prices before the drop in the Aus dollar.  I can keep the DDR2 RAM, and my  8800 GTX, DVD drive etc.

It is a compromise, but one I thought made sense in the present climate.  Hopefully sometime next year, if and when, the situation settles I can look at an i7.  But all of my retirement funds are in government superannuation , and though the losses might appear to be small they are still significant.  Enough to make me realise that my FSX addiction does have boundaries.

I might have had some sense of danger but the fund managers certainly did not!   Greed comes disguised as a so-called performance bonus system, sigh!
 
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Reply #70 - Oct 28th, 2008 at 11:46am

NickN   Offline
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FSX runs fine... the problem
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If you are going to upgrade the motherboard, then do the memory and the CPU cooler as well which would put you in a much better position to clock

Motherboard

Best

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131284


Good

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131219



Memory

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145197

or

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820146785


CPU Cooler


http://www.ocztechnology.com/products/cooling_products/ocz_vendetta_2_cpu_cooler




If you are going to change the motherboard then upgrading the memory would be the way to go at the same time so you can get the perf ot of the system. Memory is critical. To run 1066-1080 at 5-5-5 with 400-450MHz FSB as I outlined to Vic you need the right memory product

The QX6850 is a 65nm processor.. its max speed is going to be 3.6GHz. Because its a QX processor the multiplier is available. That is what you pay 1000 bucks for, the multiplier. You did not have to pay 1000 dollars if you did not intend to clock. The Q6700 is the EXACT SAME processor sold for 250 bucks

Unlike the QX68, the Q96 does NOT allow multiplier changes, therefore the STOCK multiplier is locked and you must use 9 for ALL calculations with a Q96 and, you use FSB to increase the CPU speed. The QX6 allows you to increase or decrease the multiplier and therefore you can run faster CPU speeds without changing the FSB which is why they cost 1000+ dollars. It allows pinpoint clocking adjustments where other procs do not.  

You paid for the access to the multiplier. Right now because you paid over a grand for that chip you can go into the BIOS and set the CPU MULTIPLIER to 10 instead of 9 and run 10x333 or 3.33GHz probably without touching the vcore voltage. To hit 3.6HGz you would need to raise the CPU VOLTAGE or vcore voltage and have a heatsink able to handle the heat. A QX6850 will require 1.44-1.45v vcore with the CPU VOLTAGE DAMPER -or- LOAD LINE CALIBRATION (if the BIOS has one of those settings available) ENABLED to run 3.6GHz

It may or may not do 10x333 without a slight increase in CPU VOLTAGE. That is a trial and error check and setting.

The primary goal is to find the stable clock settings on the right voltages. If you purchase the parts I listed above the settings I posted for Vic on the first page of this thread for his Q6600 and DDR2 1066 memory are exactly the same for you, except.. because you have a QX processor you can try an even better clock than he had..   8x450MHz = 3.6GHz @ CPU STRAP 400 and 1080MHz memory speed



I know for a fact the first motherboard I posted will do that and the 2nd one I have seen do 450MHz too.

So with the QX6850 you can run 9x400 = 3.6GHz @ 400 STRAP and 1066 5-5-5-15 -or- change the multiplier and run 8x450 = 3.6GHz @ 400 STRAP and 1080 5-5-5-15 with then memory and motherboards posted above

In both cases the vcore is set to 1.44 or 1.45v and the memory voltage is set to 2.1v...   same settings I posted to Vic

As for temps and stability stress testing..  

http://www.ocbase.com/download.php?fileext=exe   OCCT a CPU and system stress test software


http://www.alcpu.com/CoreTemp/    monitor the CPU core diode temps


Use the software OCCT 1 hour AUTO test with the software CORETEMP. If the processor or memory is unstable that test will show it. That test will also run the CPU core temps SKY HIGH and that is the 2nd goal to be sure the temp of that QX6 remains below 75c for the entire hour of the test... if it doesn’t then either:

CPU heatsink was not installed correctly or too much thermal compound
Tower itself does not have proper venting fans
Vcore too high (never exceed 1.50v CPU VOLTAGE)

NOTE: You may need to manually set the MAX CPU temp in OCCT to 75-80c so the test does not halt. Sometimes that value is set too low by default in the OCCT properties.

That test will stress and heat the CPU far more than FSX or any other application will therefore if the test passes and the temp remain below 75c, your fine

Every processor has a different temp range its safe to use. The 65nm QX series is below 80c DIODE temp. There is a difference between the CPU CASE and CPU DIODE temp,.. the CPU CASE TEMP is usually 15c LOWER than the REAL CORE TEMP which is why one must use special software (as I posted above) to read the TRUE CPU DIODE core temp.

That software will show the value tJ-MAX. tJM is the POINT OF NO RETURN temp of the processor. For the QX6 that 'should' be 100c. Your processor starts to automatically shut down well before that temp however there is another value called tJunction which is the BEGINNING of where the proc begins shutting down. That value is typically 20-25c LESS than tJMax. Therefore we test for max heat and stability using a max allowed diode temp of 20-25c LESS than tJMAX


The Q9650 (wihich is a P-QUAD)  is DIFFERENT for CPU VOLTAGE!  With a Q9650 you NEVER exceed 1.36v. It will also clock to 4050MHz IF you can set the motherboard to 450FSB and be stable. 9x450FSB = 4050     9x400FSB = 3600

To do 4050 you will definitely need that CPU cooler I listed. You can not use the Intel CPU cooler to clock those processors much past 3.4GHz. It may be possible to run 3.6GHz on the Q9650 with the Intel CPU heatsink.. that, I am not sure. You would need to test it as I specified above however any person who clocks knows the fatory heatsinks are really shit.

For 4050MHz (4GHz) the CPU vcore will be right around 1.28-1.32v. For 3.6GHz it will be 1.28v or less.

The temp spec is the same... max load 75c in coretemp


 
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Reply #71 - Oct 29th, 2008 at 1:12am

macca22au   Offline
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Serious thanks for all of this.  We are tracking down costs and availability in Australia.  I'll report back in 10 days when the job is done.  It won't be exactly the same as I have a personal irresolution about over-clocking to the level you recommend.  I am unskilled and though my tech is good he is not a gamer.

I, like so many others, am grateful that you go to all this trouble to advise and help on these issues.
 
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Reply #72 - Oct 29th, 2008 at 11:28am

NickN   Offline
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FSX runs fine... the problem
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a 400MHz FSB clock is nothing to the boards and memory I posted

Its a very simplistic clock to perform. The trick is when you start pushing the CPU into the FSX zone which is 3.6GHz and higher.

pushing 450 can get a bit tricky but its really not that hard. For a THtGo you need all the CPU, memory speed and video card you can get

any clock requires the user confirm they are running temps and voltages correct, does not matter if its mild, medium or screaming
 
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