Simviation Forum - Question about Vista

Nov 15^th, 2006 at 10:11am

vololiberista Offline
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In this BBC news report it states Vista will be available in 6 versions including one for "developing countries" Could someone explain what they mean by that!!!!!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/6130604.stm
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Reply #1 - Nov 15^th, 2006 at 10:48am

flymo Ex Member

thats weird never seen that before

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Reply #2 - Nov 15^th, 2006 at 11:48am

Hagar Offline
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This might explain it. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4754462.stm

VISTA VERSIONS

Vista Business
Vista Enterprise
Vista Home Basic
Vista Home Premium
Vista Ultimate
Vista Starter

The Starter edition is a streamlined version intended for low powered PCs found in many developing nations.

Also note: Also available will be versions made specifically for Europe that, in accordance with an EU mandate, remove the Windows media player.

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Reply #3 - Nov 15^th, 2006 at 11:57am

flymo Ex Member

sod the EU mandate i want WMP cos its the best media player for music library's IMHO

john

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Reply #4 - Nov 15^th, 2006 at 12:20pm

vololiberista Offline
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Quote:

sod the EU mandate i want WMP cos its the best media player for music library's IMHO

john

It's all about choice! WMP wrecked my sound card conguration when I upgraded to XP. I couldn't play my midi files because the WMP sound font is cr@p!!!
I had to wait until I could get a newer card that circumvented WMP. And BTW I don't think it's the best and I therefore would like to choose another and the EU directive allows me to do that and not be dictated to by a monopoly that forces me to use their products only. I still don't know whether or not the issue over "kernel access" has been resolved. As that also comes under the EU directive.
Vololiberista
PS In answer to Hagar most of the comments in that news article are quite negative!!!! Another rush job like FSX??? Shocked

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Reply #5 - Nov 15^th, 2006 at 12:32pm

Hagar Offline
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Quote:

PS In answer to Hagar most of the comments in that news article are quite negative!!!! Another rush job like FSX??? Shocked

Not sure which article you mean. You seem to have some pretty negative views yourself. Tongue

I'm not sure what you mean about WMP anyway. Even if it ships with the OS nobody is forcing you to use it. With all versions of Windows I've used from 3.1 thru XP it's a simple matter to assign any software you wish as the default program for different file extensions.

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Reply #6 - Nov 15^th, 2006 at 1:46pm

vololiberista Offline
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Quote:

Not sure which article you mean. You seem to have some pretty negative views yourself. Tongue

I'm not sure what you mean about WMP anyway. Even if it ships with the OS nobody is forcing you to use it. With all versions of Windows I've used from 3.1 thru XP it's a simple matter to assign any software you wish as the default program for different file extensions.

First I'm talking about the article in "your" post!!

And on your second point, if that were indeed the case the EU wouldn't have won it's court battle against M(qualcosa)s in America and M(qualcosa)s wouldn't therefore be paying a huge daily fine as of now. The first time one installs XP as an "upgrade" it produces a list of hardware and software that it doesn't like!! Not only did it cripple my 5.1 sound card but killed my then version of "Cakewalk". Obviously if one has used WMP always as "the one" then that ìs what XP wanted to see! Indeed M(qualcosa)s DID force one to use WMP!!
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Reply #7 - Nov 15^th, 2006 at 1:59pm

Hagar Offline
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I can't argue as I've never updated to WinXP from a previous version of Windows. I purchased this machine with the UK version of WinXP installed. It's quite likely that the Cakewalk software you had been using was incompatible with WinXP & simply needed updating. I don't believe that it won't work with WinXP. http://www.cakewalk.com/Support/default.asp

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Reply #8 - Nov 15^th, 2006 at 2:07pm

Woodlouse2002 Offline
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iTunes puts WMP in it's place no problems.

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Reply #9 - Nov 15^th, 2006 at 2:53pm

born_2_fly Ex Member

Am I missing something? Why is WMP got a ruleling against it in an EU mandate? Am I breaking the law?! Grin

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Reply #10 - Nov 15^th, 2006 at 3:29pm

vololiberista Offline
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Quote:

I can't argue as I've never updated to WinXP from a previous version of Windows. I purchased this machine with the UK version of WinXP installed. It's quite likely that the Cakewalk software you had been using was incompatible with WinXP & simply needed updating. I don't believe that it won't work with WinXP. http://www.cakewalk.com/Support/default.asp

"Now" most software co's like Cakewalk and Itunes are able to get round the coding that only allows WMP. I am talking about a time shortly after XP came onto the market. Not "now!"

No one is breaking the law by using WMP. Only M(qualcosa)s fell foul of the EU's position on monopolies, by packaging WMP in such a way that users were forced to use it and not third party software.. If you are European don't rush out and buy Vista "when" it comes out unless you are absolutely certain it is the European version. unless of course you want M(qualcosa)s to do your virus checking!!!! (I don't!!!!)
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Reply #11 - Nov 15^th, 2006 at 3:35pm

Hagar Offline
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From what I can make out Microsoft & Cakewalk are working together & have been for some time. http://aes.harmony-central.com/121AES/Content/Cakewalk/PR/Fast-Forward-Sonar-6-T...

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Reply #12 - Nov 15^th, 2006 at 6:29pm

Woodlouse2002 Offline
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And you'll have a hard time buying a non european copy of Vista in Europe. Just like the European copies will be like hens teeth in the states.

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Reply #13 - Nov 15^th, 2006 at 9:20pm

Daube Offline
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Quote:

"Now" most software co's like Cakewalk and Itunes are able to get round the coding that only allows WMP. I am talking about a time shortly after XP came onto the market. Not "now!"

No one is breaking the law by using WMP. Only M(qualcosa)s fell foul of the EU's position on monopolies, by packaging WMP in such a way that users were forced to use it and not third party software.. If you are European don't rush out and buy Vista "when" it comes out unless you are absolutely certain it is the European version. unless of course you want M(qualcosa)s to do your virus checking!!!! (I don't!!!!)
Vololiberista

Aren't you tired of those stupid "conspiracy" theories ?
I did upgrade from Win98 to WinXP with no problems.
NOBODY forces you to use WMP. No lines of coding ever forced you to use it, or ever preventied any third party program to be used.

Since the beginning, I have been using Media Player Classic without any problems. Your "catwalk" stuff stopped working in WMP certainly because the current version was simply incompatible and needed to be updated. For your 5.1 sound card, do you sincerly believe that WMP damaged it ? Isn't it the WinXP drivers instead ? Think about it just a minute, what is the main thing that influences the way your hardware works ? A program or a driver ?

The reason why MS loosed against EU rules is that because WMP was directly included in the Windows package, the average users where not feeling the need to buy a third party program, and this was causing a great loss of money. It's like you buy a new house, and there is already a car in the garage. Will you throw it away and buy a new one just because you lack some options or the top speed is not high enough ?

By the way, if I remember well, the EU only forced MS to issue a "light" version of Windows, so that the customer has the choice of:
- buying a light Windows and buy or download additionnal programs to get a complete OS
- buy a complete Windows and eventually buy or download other progrs if needed.

People that doesn't have internet are certainly happy that the second solution still exists.

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Reply #14 - Nov 16^th, 2006 at 12:14am

DizZa Ex Member

You can just remove Windows Media player.

Also if a new windows install messes up your soundcard, then it's your sound cards makers fault.

It's like saying: "It's Microsofts fault that my sound card dosn't work on a new windows install because Microsoft didn't make my sound card drivers".

Quote:

it comes out unless you are absolutely certain it is the European version. unless of course you want M(qualcosa)s to do your virus checking!!!! (I don't!!!!)

Why is that?

Quote:

Another rush job like FSX

FsX wasn't rushed. Please stop saying that without any firsthand knowledge of the product.

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Reply #15 - Nov 16^th, 2006 at 2:03am

vololiberista Offline
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Buongiorno a tutti
First things first. I and many others had upgrade problems with XP where it replaced installed media software with WMP. In other words it disabled exisiting software and this is what caused the action against M(qualcosa)s by the EU. It's not "just" that WMP comes as part of the package. For example so does Internet explorer. I have never used that or outlook express.On that note I've been using Netscape 7 since 2000 and only now are M(qualcosa)s catching up!!!!!!!

Quote:
it comes out unless you are absolutely certain it is the European version. unless of course you want M(qualcosa)s to do your virus checking!!!! (I don't!!!!)

Dizza wrote: Why is that?
Because M(qualcosa)s has up to now refused access to kernel code by third parties. This means that any third party programme like AVG for example will not function. Yes I know that Vista is a completely different platform etc, but I'm not confident to "have to" use M(qualcosa)s's own virus checker. the EU has reminded m(qualcosa)s that this also contravenes the court's decision.
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Reply #16 - Nov 16^th, 2006 at 4:50am

Politically Incorrect Offline
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So MS was sued for including WMP becasue people wouldn't possibly buy another media player?

Are you trying to tell me MS has been sued due to the fact people are too lazy to make up their own mind and their freedom to choose? It is simple to set your default software as Hagar mentioned. And don't forget most software you install will actually change your settings one way or another "forcing" you to use it a certain way until you say otherwise.

Like said before you don't need to use WMP and as for third parties losing money how many use a payware media player to begin with?

All these third party developers are bitching about not making money then maybe they should step up and develop a OS Wink

And for the third party Anti virus companies raising complaints, their software will overtake your system and freedom more so than Windows itself Wink

The EU seems to be against the idea of free enterprise and that is what MS is doing, can they help it that they developed a OS that 90% of the worlds computer user population uses? Can they be blamed for the fact that more software is made to run on that OS which itself has made many third party developers who they are today?
Is it possible that Norton and McAffee are more flamed that their crap software will no longer be bundled with Windows (more likely the case) which means that they will loose money becasue no one buys their crap on purpose.

The way I see it you have a choice you don't like Windows use something else. Of course then we will hear you complaining about how all your software won't run on anything else and that too I guess will be MS's fault that the software developers didn't write programs for other operating systems.

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Reply #17 - Nov 16^th, 2006 at 4:58am

Woodlouse2002 Offline
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Quote:

The EU seems to be against the idea of free enterprise

No. The EU is against a free enterprise becoming a monopoly. If M$ had it's way every programme you ever use would come from them. What the EU have done is just given competing software companies a chance.

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Reply #18 - Nov 16^th, 2006 at 4:59am

vololiberista Offline
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Quote:

So MS was sued for including WMP becasue people wouldn't possibly buy another media player?

Are you trying to tell me MS has been sued due to the fact people are too lazy to make up their own mind and their freedom to choose? It is simple to set your default software as Hagar mentioned. And don't forget most software you install will actually change your settings one way or another "forcing" you to use it a certain way until you say otherwise.

Like said before you don't need to use WMP and as for third parties losing money how many use a payware media player to begin with?

All these third party developers are bitching about not making money then maybe they should step up and develop a OS Wink

And for the third party Anti virus companies raising complaints, their software will overtake your system and freedom more so than Windows itself Wink

The EU seems to be against the idea of free enterprise and that is what MS is doing, can they help it that they developed a OS that 90% of the worlds computer user population uses? Can they be blamed for the fact that more software is made to run on that OS which itself has made many third party developers who they are today?
Is it possible that Norton and McAffee are more flamed that their crap software will no longer be bundled with Windows (more likely the case) which means that they will loose money becasue no one buys their crap on purpose.

The way I see it you have a choice you don't like Windows use something else. Of course then we will hear you complaining about how all your software won't run on anything else and that too I guess will be MS's fault that the software developers didn't write programs for other operating systems.

I don't think that you have really understood the point i made. But you have raised another and that is the different point of view between Europe and America regarding "free enterprise". Europeans see M(qualcosa)s as a world monopoly whereas you see them as free enterprise. I have to say that the case against M(qualcosa)s was tried in the USA under American law.
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Reply #19 - Nov 16^th, 2006 at 6:03am

Hagar Offline
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There seem to be a lot of conflicting views on this subject. I think we need to stick to the facts. To avoid confusion this is what it's all about.

In the US. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/652150.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/2393537.stm

In the EU. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4937840.stm

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Reply #20 - Nov 16^th, 2006 at 9:20am

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Quote:

"Microsoft does not compete on the merits. Microsoft doesn't let users choose ... it chooses itself what users will have as product."

From the link Hagar posted

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4937840.stm

I don't see what that lawyer is talking about, not letting the users choose.
My choices
Firefox
I use Musicmatch (third party) media player
Various third party Email programs not Outlook
Nod32 third party AntiVirus
etc... seems I as a user have many choices.

Another choice I have made as anyone else can is to use Windows Wink

Now to quote the other complaints:
Quote:

Microsoft licensed its operating system more cheaply to computer makers such as Dell and Compaq, if they exclusively installed its software.

Very smart business decision that they try to make sound evil. Most companies will offer great discounts on multiple sales or bulk orders.

Quote:

When IBM refused to drop sales of its own rival operating system and software packages, it lost millions of dollars worth of sales by not receiving the crucial details of Windows 95 until 15 minutes before it launched. Other PC makers had computers with it installed and ready to ship.

Sounds like IBM screwed up themselves

Quote:

But the key element involved the way in which Microsoft forced its Internet Explorer browser to leadership in a market which had been dominated by Netscape's Navigator

Quote:

The trial heard that Microsoft not only gave away Internet Explorer but also "bundled" it into its Windows operating system, forcing manufacturers to pre-load it on to their computers.

Even if users wanted to use Navigator instead, the trial heard that its performance was not as quick, and that Internet Explorer would be triggered as the default browser for a variety of functions.

Its part of the OS you load the OS and you load the features it comes with , performance loss of another browser is crap and any person with the least bit of computer knowledge knows how to change default settings.
Seems the Navigator guys were mad that they got competition. After all was there a fuss over Netscape's dominance prior to IE?

So sorry I don't see any case at all, I am not a MS fanboy although I use and enjoy many of their products, but many I also refuse to use that is my choice. Just like you have a choice you don't like it then go elsewhere there is Apple.

I don't see it as a monopoly MS came in at the right time with a product that no one could match and to this day still can't.

Do you see the Governments getting into sports? You know your favorite team sucks becasue the other team has better players, well better get rid of that teams players becasue it is unfair to the rest, same scenario.

It is a business and that is what businesses do they are in it to dominate and make money, to be in business for any other reason is bound to end in failure.

It is free enterprise , problem is no one has yet been able to come out with the next "Windows" to put MS back down on a even playing field, monopoly it is not, domination it is Wink

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Reply #21 - Nov 16^th, 2006 at 11:42am

vololiberista Offline
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As far as netscape 7 goes. I have been using it since 2000 and it outperforms anything that internet explorer could, can or will do. Only a week or two ago did M(qualcosa)s release a version of explorer that comes close and will be part of Vista. Netscape are already about to release a new version.
M(qualcosa)s may be the leader in terms of browser numbers but they are most definitely back of the queue in terms of performance and quality.
If someone asked me to list the 10 best decisions i made in my life then never to use explorer and outlook would be on that list. They are the cr@@iest and most bug ridden programmes M(qualcosa)s have ever produced!!!
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