MS Is going to hear a lot of complaints about the activation thing.... personally I dont agree with it, 1 computer, 2 installs..... and you cant change hardware... what a load of bunk!

Gunny

Now that doesnt sound to good.

Also it mentions if you un-install / re-install its ok. What if you re-format though? thats not the same as un-installing / re-installing. Granted you are keeping the same hardware components but erasing all the registry etc.

Oh well time will tell on this one.  What is rubbish is I was planning on installing it as soon as I got it (due soon) but in a month planned on a HDD upgrade to a 150gig 10,000rpm raptor drive. Thats my two goes up so when I build a new system mid next year I am going to have to ring someone just to activate my game 

I'm all for being against piracy but this will just end up being annoying for some.

I don't mind what Microsoft is doing with the activation process because I'm getting sick and tired of all the piracy that has been going around recently. Like I said long ago, piracy has become so problematic that even the economy as well as the FS community is negatively affected by it.

Apple is also known for having tight restrictions with their iTunes service. Did you know that if you purchase music or videos from the iTunes music store, you can only play those on a limited number number [five at the most] of computer that have iTunes installed? For example:

Let's say you have 5 computers in the house and you have authorized all of them to run your favorite Stargate episodes through iTunes. Since 5 is the limit per account, you've reached you limit. And if you clean out one of the 5 computers without deauthorizing it first, then the same computer won't run it because the iTunes server doesn't compensate for systme-wide clean outs and you've also reached your limit already. Not only that, the computers that authorized need to have iTunes installed as the episodes you have were downloaded through the iTunes music store.

So you see, Microsoft is not alone in the matter. Piracy is a serious thing. It's so serious, that if the RIAA [Recording Industry Association of America] catches you with pirated media then you'll face a very heavy lawsuit big enough to put you into deep finacial debt.

So, if you don't like the direction that Microsoft is taking with this, then put up with it as other companies are doing the same thing as well to combat piracy. In which case, you should blame the pirates for causing your convenience to deteriorate.

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Dude, there will always be a professional hacker that will be able to crack the anti-copy feature. Therefore, an anti-copy feature is fruitless.

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I'm not gonna be surprised if that were to happen by ANY company. Here in college, if I lose an activation code included in one of the math books [which costed me $130] then I have to pay some cash for a new code which is needed for the math lab in my local college.

I think, with the right knowdlege, that you could fake the program into activating itself.

Like the Gunny said, hackers are going to find a way around whatever piracy measure they take. I guess my point is that activation or startup disk they're going to get pirated, at least with the startup disk loyal customers don't get pirated by purchasing a disk that WILL eventually become useless. Let's face it, the hard core simmers change hardware often enought to make buying a new set of disks everytime they get up enough scratch to upgrade an expensive proposition.

Keni

Hackers or no, pirates or no, one should be allowed to upgrade one's hardware especially as it seems most people will have to in order to run Vista and DX10. I'm curious to know if the European versions of FSX have this problem seeing as here XP installation does not need "activation" by M(qualcosa)s. Having said that Only XP Pro can be moved on to new hardware. With "Home" you're stuck fast with the hardware and cannot upgrade.
Vololiberista

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I went to your link and my spyware programme rang every alarm it could think off!!!!!!!!!!
Vololiberista

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Can you guarantee that? These things worry me.

http://www.adoko.com/activex.html

A couple of points occur to me. On purchasing software from my friendly local store I ask if it will run on my machine & they say "Take it home & try it. If you're not happy bring it back". Now, this was fine in the old days but this new registration process puts a whole new light on it. Imagine the problems if you happened to purchase one of these returned items in good faith.

I believe you can try FSX as many times & on as many computers as you like PROVIDING you don't register it. I think this is a limited trial & it will shut down after a given period (say 30 minutes) like the FSX Demo. This would be very handy to test it on different systems.

If this is correct I wonder how many people know about it & if it's pointed out anywhere on the packaging or installation instructions.

Just found this from Joe_D's original link. http://support.microsoft.com/kb/927007/en-us
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FSX, FSX , FSX , FSX.For me just for better graphics, and for a game.For me its NO.So you have to go to heaven just to activate a program that you bought with the effort of your work, to install on a pc that you worked to buy (at least most of us).This reminds me "mumy can i stay out of bed until the movie is finished".What i mean is the limittations that Microsoft is  doing on FSX is not worthwile.Specially that you buy the prog. so (if you dont have the right pc) you try to tweak, so with somany tweaks you have to reinstall (theres one), because we love FS so much we try again, tweak here, tweak there, a help from a friend or SIMVIATION forum, make us do it  again we need to reinstall. fianally we get to the conclusion that we need a new video board,OOOOPPPSSSSS we cant do that we need to call MS. So price for FSX+VIDEO+CALLand you also have to install INTERNET.ok we do it,(few months pass by, some add on factory makes a wonderfull add on maybe a scenery from you country or state or airport or favorite airplane.You buy it or download it or somebody let you use it to install (NO,NO you cant do that) you buy the add on, but your pc is not powerfull enought so you need more memory or a better processor, ok FSX+VIDEO+INTERNET+CALL+ADDON+MEMORY+PROCESSOR+CALL +CALL +CALL.ANd by the way MS present the specifications for all the FS i think you are going to spend lots of time at the phoneOK we do it again.Funny im i having a hobby or am i buying a house or asking for a loan. FS9 it didnt have any piracy control ritght !!!No activation by phone or change of hardware issues, and we are all happy, so now they want to control what we buy in software matter but also what  hardware we have.Nice for the next FS you need to call if you change your hardware, and something like this it will be a specification ($2000 processor,(only work s with this one ) $3000 video board (only work with this one) $2000 motherboard (only work with this one) and so on. And HAAAAA you can only fly for 1 hour each day.I think i wouldn mind if somebody could change something about it....................just a thought.
Many thanks

Politically_incorrect

You are a total dick head

If you had an ounce of intelligence you would see that I am doing an objective appraisal of this piece of software just as I have done before with many others and as I will do again in the future. Every comment that I make is backed up with evidence and pictures.

I also say good things as well but clearly you choose to ignore them. You are the one with the closed mind.

If you are so undescriminating that you just take everything a seller says to you about a product with a pinch of salt that's OK with me. But I don't.

I also like to test something after I've bought it, which is what I'm doing here. So far there have been thousands of views of the topics in which I've been involved so I can only conclude that people are interested in them one way or the other. And I'm delighted to see that not everyone agrees with the comments I've made and the conclusions I've come to.

I've been around on this Earth for quite a while and I've found that there are always people like you who want to stifle discussion and other people's opinions, especially when they are at odds with their own. I have always treated  them with the contempt they deserve.

If you want to do your own objective appraisal of FSX I'll be interested in reading it. So don't try and shut me up while I'm doing mine.

I also said that I'm never the first, but if the knives come out I ALWAYS respond.

That's what I've done here.

Frankly, I'm not that concerned about how much 'respect' you have for me one way or the other - you don't know me, but one thing you will know if you have been around here very long at all is that the one thing I do defend above anything else is free speech and the freedom of anyone to express their opinion.

As soon as anyone says 'I speak for everyone around here' and then go on to attack someone else in a personal way, as Politically Incorrect did, you know they speak for no-one but themselves.

And as far as I can see, in the bit of your posting that matters, you've said exactly the same as me. Activation, which was what this thread was all about until Politically Incorrect started barging about and sounding off, was quite easy and painless. It's other things that are more of a problem.

So you're allowed to say that and I'm not eh?

Gunny you are correct. i appologize. I have removed my post.  Some people just get under my skin. I need to learn to ignore......

Sorry again.

I don't care what you two [Rollerball and PI] say, but if you two don't cool it, this thread might get locked by the mods and we don't want that. Now do we?

So cool it, you two.

Ok Guys.....

Let's relax with the comments please.


Thanks,

Dave

With respect Bill, the F9 and F10 buttons are hardly on the same level as mesh and autogen errors or even the ATC window which, unless I'm mistaken, the user can't change.

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People have every right to complain about it. They've paid good money for it, and if it's not up to standard, they should be able to say that.

This is getting silly. You have to compare FSX with FS9 just as FS9 was compared with FS2002 which was in turn compared with FS2000 etc. etc.

And then FSXII will be compared to FSXI and then FSXI will be compared to FSX.

My, how this world has NOT changed.

For my pennyworth!!! I would say that I am also against piracy, however I am also against a software company dictating to me "when, "how", "where", "what" hardware I can use. The hardware belongs to me not the software company.
Under European law they do not have the right  to force people to upgrade for example. Nor do they have the right to stop people upgrading EULA licences are a legal joke. Probably the only country in which they are enforceable in law is the USA.  In the EU they are covered by copyright legislation. So, here if I buy a software porogramme then IT belongs to me. Only the coding etc belongs to the software co. And whilst they may have a partial right to limit funcionality they cannot prevent me from upgrading etc., The only right they have is to complain if I were to modify their programme and publish it (even that is difficult here in the EU)or to sell any modification i make(this is probably the only field in which a software co. would have any legal success here).
The problem is that one such software co. has such a monopoly that they think they can dictate to us what they like.
This particular software co. already has to pay a huge daily fine to the EU I feel that I would not purchase FSX until they release a version that allows me the freedom to use it as and when I want (obviously not to make pirate copies etc).
I would finish by saying that there are some people here  who portray this particular software co, as the best thingsince sliced bread!!!!! (Nothing they do can be criticised) Well, before you try to jump down MY throat I would warn you that what I have stated IS the law here.
Now I'm going to Tokyo on my current round the world trip (on FS9!!!) . Ciao tutti.
Vololiberista

I am totally fine with MS trying to protect their work and their revenues. I never used pirated software and never will ...

My question is actually simple: I could not find this question answered clearly anywhere. If you can answer this or let me know a microsoft email addy I can send this to, I would appreciate it.

I just installed FSX on my computer. Works great. But 6 months from now I want to get a new computer (more powerful) to take advantage of all the FSX features.

Just to be clear I don't want to use FSX on two computer at the same time. I will uninstall FSX from my old rig and install it on the new one.

Will I be allowed to install my copy of FSX on my new computer? or will I be forced to buy a new license?

Anybody knows how to answer this question? or do you know of an email addy at Microsoft I can send my question to?

thanks!

Quote:


Ok well here in the EU M(qualcosa)s is not allowed to force you to re register say by internet or phone everytime you install on an upgraded PC. The programme itself cannot tell the difference everytime is is freshly installed.  The only way is by M(qualcosa)s registering every install. Here thats not allowed by law!!!!
Vololiberista

Quote:

You've stated that several times but I can't find anything about it on the Internet. I've not seen it  mentioned by any European members here with FSX either. (The UK is a full member of the EU & usually first to comply with new regulations.) If you know something about this that I don't can you please confirm it with a link to a reliable source. Thanks.

Quote:

Yeah but they don't change the compiled code. They change the language files (which are generally only text files and don't require the software to be re-compiled). When they have software distributed to other countries they just give them the text files with the "symbols" in them linked to translated text.

But ... maybe I am wrong. I do software but not (alas) gaming software, so maybe it works different for FSX ...

Ok, well unfortunately i can't provide a link as EU law is very convoluted  and it is quite difficult without costly subscriptions to get any detailed info. and this may not even be accessable via the net. You may have to order at a cost certain documents to be sent or downloaded. The fact that one can't find something on the net doesn't mean it isn't true.  When I use the net I am sometimes quite surprised that I can find something and on the other hand surprised that I cannot.
From a legal standpoint the EU laws covering consumer rights and protection are in themselves wide ranging enough without having to be specific. As i said in an earlier post EULA's are very difficult to enforce here. It's been tried largely without success.
Suffice to say that as far as XP goes, in the EU one does not have to register it with MS. The very first issues of XP did have to be registered but the EU protested and thereafter in future releases it was optional. Maybe FSX will go the same way (let's see) MS always seems to try something on until they get caught and as far as Vista is concerned the EU has already said "no way José" regarding the reluctance of MS to allow third parties into their kernel software. This at the very least would mean no virus checkers other than MS own!!
I'm sorry that what I've said may not help and that I don't have any links. I do have alot of paperwork but I don't really want to waste time scanning it and posting it here.  Especially as i'm just about to reach my cruising altitude of FL360 on my RTW trip - Tokyo being the next destination. FS9 calls Ci vediamo presto Ciao.
Vololiberista

Hello i just saw all this answers on this post.I think i ofended many opinions here, and for that IM SORRY.What i meant to say was (and some body also said it in a better english that mine ) did we buy the software or rented it. I know all fs are diferent , it was very good that everybody that upgraded machines for FSX could have the results they wanted, but unfort. there are many people that upgraded and bought the game and realised that is better to stay with FS9 (im not comparing them) not because they, want its because its expensive and they cant spend money like some other companions of flying can, but not just that they cant change the harware other wise they gonna fing that  all those rights they payd dont belong to them(im not talking about copyright), and i think thats wrong.Remember when the demo came out , there were already people saying that that was strange.
In conclusion once again IM SORRY if i ofended anybody, i love this forum and i've learned so many with the OBI-ONES that i couldnt lieve without them.
IM SORRY
Many thaks
PS- sorry about my english

Quote:


If I understand the FAQs correctly........

The short answer is, no one has to buy a new license no mater how many times they install it.

1) You can re- install/activate it as many time as you like as long as you don't change major  hardware or change computers.

1) You can then ativate it once after a major hardware or computer change

3) After a major hardware/ computer change you can again  re-install/activate it as ofter as you wish.

4) If you then change major hardware/ computers a second time you the must then call the toll free number to get a new activation  key for the new hardware/ computer..... not unlike  as you have to do with XP.


Bottom line, you can re- install it/activate it as often as you want,  on different systems etc.
Just be aware that you will have to call the toll fee number  for a new key each time a particular  activation quota is used up.
Again this is simular to actvating XP.

Quote:

This is the nub of the problem!!! That's technically illegal and in fact there are many cases annually involving EULA disputes.  American law and European law differ on many points. For example in the USA you have to give permission NOT to receive publicity. There are many websites for example that don't provide for this or if they do it's not obvious. Of course many do make it obvious.
On the other hand as far as UK, EU and Italian law goes it is the complete opposite. Here it is assumed you DO NOT want publicity unless you expressly ask for it.
Here I'm legally entitled to take any software co. to court  for having been coerced into giving permission to be spied upon just in order to use their software.  As said previously most EULA cases heard in the EU fail because here the only enforceable part of the EULA is copyright of the code. Many large commercial enterprises play the game in order not to get involved in expensive legal suites so the software co's effectively get away with malpractice!!
Vololiberista
PS I'm off to add Windows and everything else to my spyware programme !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Good point  our lawyers need to talk to each other!!!!!!!!
First of all the pic was sent to me many years ago by email, so it would be correct to say that it has been in the public domain at least since then.
I understand that it also already exists here in this forum under the humour section. I've no idea which post but i would bet that any copyright has not been aknowledged!!!!!!
You can see this whole thing is a minefield  from which only the lawyers benefit!!!!!!!
Vololiberista

hey guys dont forget one thing, when you buy something(in this case software, and this has been already said) the only thing you cant do is make copy of that prog.
KNow everytime you change something in your pc you have to tell it to MICROSOFT please (i take resposability on this )
F...... it i've payed the program the authors have been payed so we are not taking money of the guys that worked on the program, is somethong that is ours.........well it isnt is just rented to us.
    imagine this now everybody just thought on leaving FSX on the stores nobody would buy a copy.Interesting let me tell you what could happen.Somebody  would buy it make a crack for it and everybody would have a copy (if it is for free or not thats not what im saying here) what was MS goinfg to do....NOTHING if we finish buying they're products and we move for something like i dont know LINUX or MAC what do you think MS would do probably make FSXII without this defenses? I dont know, but one thing i think is stupid, is a game (and believe me i LOVE FS ) that controls our pcs after we pay the price they whant.Came on even MS came with the patch of no cd.
This is my view i dont want to offend nobody.
Many thanks
Cheers

Ciao, welcome to SimV your first post!!!!
The whole porcess of activation and or registration has become a minefield. I personally think it is quite wrong for a softaware co. to say that once you have bought their product you can use it only twice!!
For example Win XP is a nightmare a: to transfer onto a new disc and b:if you have upgraded the MB. I own my hardware it has nothing to do with any software co. I am entitled to upgrade my hardware as and when I see fit. Not when the software co. tells me to!
Yes, piracy is a problem and all of us here are against it (I hope!!!) But the software co's are using a sledgehammer to crack a nut.
As for your coments about FSX I personally will wait a while. Firstly because it will need a "significant" hardware upgrade. Secondly it really has been designed for use under Vista and DX10 both of which are still under development. I prefer to wait and see how it looks when all is up and running. I'm sure you have seen some "heated" debate on the subject in this forum.
Buoni voli.
Vololiberista

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ForceMD,

First of all .... welcome to SimV.  I hope that you can find information here that helps you maker sound decisions.

You are right about the terrible level of piracy thing.  All you have to do to grasp the level of the problem is to look here at so many of the responses to anti-piracy threads and to the people that feel the EULA is an "optional" agreement that the authors have no right to stipulate or enforce.

Do some more "digging" here at SimV before you make your final decision.  And maybe make sure your machine is up to the demands of FSX if you want to run it with the sliders anywhre near maxed out.

Good luck.... and we hope to see you here at SimV more in the future.

best,

........john

Hey all,

    Thanks for the warm welcome and the information. I think I will wait on the FSX purchase.

I just recieved X-Plane V 8.50 in the mail (I ordered this just before I discovered this site) and this program seems like it will keep me busy for a while. It is HUGE; (8 DVDs) and can take up 60 gigs of hard drive space depending on how much scenery of the world you want to install. I have not started to install it yet, but I have been reading other sites on the program. and it is a highly technical (and highly configurable) program.

I will still be poking in this forum to get news on FSX, but for now, at least, I've got my hands full with X-Plane.

P.S.
I also orderd the CH pro pedals and CH yoke to do this flight simming thing the right way:)

James

Quote:


Force, there are two things you should check out about X-Plane:

1. Try landing a float plane on calm water during clear and calm weather and let me know how it goes. Make sure to land at a shallow angle.

2. Let me know how many CTDs you'll get in the mean time.

Other than that, it's fine sim. Just remember that X-Plane was built for the dynamic accuracy of aircraft at the expense of graphics while the FS series was designed to graphics at the expense of dynamic accuracy.

I always thought Steam was a good system for piracy prevention and 3rd party/add-on support. At least, I prefer that to online activation 2x and then a toll free number for the rest of your life  .

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You shouldn't have any problem. You get two activations so the first is on your present computer and the second is on the new machine. Now if you suddenly decide six months down the line that you want an even better computer or win a "top of the line" Alienware rig you will have to call an 800 "doesn't cost you a dime" number and explain this to someone at Microsft.

Usually this is not problem and they will reset your activation. If however you have called them once a week for the past 30 days requesting a new activation then you might get a different reception. It's really not that big a deal if you are on the up and up.

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That would be a reasonable hypothesis, if in fact the sim actually did do that...

...however, it doesn't ever "phone home" except when you explicitly ask it to, during the "activation" process... 

Bear with me....

Hello, I'm a new software company, Skligsoft. I just spent thousands of dollars that I borrowed from the bank (since I'm poor) to hire a couple programmers and come out with this snazzy little Widget program. This program is my (my, in this case, means the company) intellectual property. I own it, I do not have to sell it. however, I need to make money off of it in order to pay back my loan, and hopefully make some capital. Now, I know that there are 10,000 people who are willing to pay me for this program. In which case, I'll sell the rights to use my intellectual property for $20. But, because I know that 1,000 of those customers will just borrow the copy from his buddy, I need to come up with a way to make that not happen. To do this, I'll require an agreement between me (the company) and the purchaser that states he can only have this software installed on one computer at a time. In order to make sure they realize that I am not selling the software, but the right to use it, I will include in the agreement that he must activate the program through my online resource, which keeps track of each license sold by serial number. If a license is tracked to be installed and it red flags abnormal, I'll require a phone call with a reasonable explination as to why there was such a change, in order to make it more difficult for a would be pirate to steal my property. I could set the program up as a one time download that cannot be saved, installed only once, and require repurchase if it is to be downloaded again, but that would not be very kind. This will also keep somebody from just handing out copies of this program to others for free.


This is something I never understood. We are not buying software here. We are buying the privilage to use somebodies product, regardless of the stipulations. If you don't like the stipulations, you don't buy the product. Kind of like flying an airplane. If you don't agree with the regulations (weather it be FAA or other), don't bother trying to fly anything, go boating instead. Then again, you have regulations on boating also... By saying it is illegal to do what MS is doing, you are also (quite truthfully and correct) saying that government is also illegal.

Regardless, think from a software company's point of veiw. how else would you do it, and do you really expect it to work? I don't see a problem with it. If I did, I wouldn't buy the program.

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All software comes with a EULA (End Users License Agreement) Most time it will display when you are starting the install process and can usually be found in the programs folders. This is the long "legal" mumbojmbo that most people just overlook and click the "I accept" button. It is here that it will state exactly what you can and can not do with the software your installing. All software has one.

FYI this is also where you will find whether or not the software your installing may also contain other third party software, most times, spyware/adware, toolbars etc.. So it is important you read these and not just accept them.

I can't count the number of times that someone contacted me asking why their homepage had been changed or something only to find that some program was installed "without" their knowledge, but then to find that they installed it themselves but unknowingly due to the fact they didn't read the EULA

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The software co's and their lawyers will have you beleive that you can use their software with their gracious permission and that you have only bought the licence. However, at least under European law one owns the programme in the same sense as one owns a music single. European law will only go with the Eula if copyright is infringed. Thus "Sorry you can only have two goes at installing" cannot be enforced here. dictating hopw when and where one can use the software, how often one can upgrade etc., is seen as monopolistic behaviour!!
Vololiberista

Quote:

Sorry when its stated you haven't looked, one is to assume you didn't know what the EULA is

The last software packages I purchased simply had a box that once you opened it, had a CD case in it.  There wasn't a EULA anywhere.  If it's in the README, I never select the readme and I'm not taking my time out to read their crap.  Once I buy it, it's mine.

Actually, I have no problem with the Activation, the problem I have is with the 2x max and not placing that on the box.  I have a friend who purchased X, opened the box and then asked me about the strange activation involved.  It wasn't until this time that I explained to him what the situation was and he would have prefered not to have the software, but "YOU CAN'T RETURN SOFTWARE".  You can return ANYTHING else in he US, but not game software that plays great when you try the demo then is crap when you lay out the $50.  This has happened to us at least 3 times and I'm sick of it.  The demos played fine, then when we bought the game, the software was crap.  It's a scam that should be stopped.  If they would simply mark the license requirements on the box, then each person could decide on their own if they want it.  All Microsoft had to do was put a note on the bottom front of the box that said that this product requires activation and may only be activated twice.  They don't because they know they would loose sales, they are hoping you buy it and find out after you've lost your funds and can't get it back.

This sucks.

Quote:



What the heck does that actually mean?

best,

......john