Kudos to Hal Bryan at ACES for making the decision to lift the NDA from the "Official Beta Testers" late this afternoon...  8)

Given that the 'public beta testers' were not put under an NDA (but only because of the delay in actual delivery), it would be grossly unfair for ACES to continue holding the "Official Beta Team" to the terms of their NDA.

So, with that in mind, I won't have to continue resorting to such feats of contortion in any replies offered regarding the "insides" of FSX.

Along with over 300 others representing a large cross-section of the freeware and payware communities, I have been actively involved with FSX since late last year (2005).

One of the first things I can now make public is that Pete Dawson already has an FSX version of FSUIPC that will be released on the same day that FSX "goes Gold."

Also, Track IR and Go Flight are "good to go" with their products as well. 

Pete Dowson didn't waste any time

Why am I becoming oh so slightly cynical about all these new 'announcements' and 'developments'.

Like I said before this is all part of a marketing campaign that was devised by the MS marketing and publicity team many many months ago and everything is being done according to a time line to keep the slavering idiots drooling and waiting for the next morsel to be thrown their way.

This will not heal the sick, it won't feed the starving - it's a computer game for goodness sake. It's all being done to promote the product and make the maximum bucks for a huge and already wealthy company.

For goodness sake Microsoft give us all a break and just cut the cr*p.

Rollerball, that's kinda true. But what do you mean by cut the crap? Stop developing the game altogether because a new flight engine isn't in ?

"ZOMG, THIS IS A PART OF THE 'PLAN', THE ALIENS ARE GOING TO KILL IS ALL!"

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Now that's Funny!

That's why nothing gets done.
Mike wastes his time quoting the likes of me.
Nobody (no sane person) ever quotes me!  

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Why

We won't tell anyone 

Roller, drop me an e-mail so I can contact you if you would be so kind. I have something might interest you.

f668901@aol.com

Jasper

Roger,

I respect your work and contributions to the hobby. I also respect your opinions, some of which carry some merit in reference to communication between the development team and the public. There is always the aspect of good business relations in order to generate interest, which flows down into sales.

What I do not agree with is the slant that the communication that is now becoming open with the FS development team is some type of mastermind plan to infiltrate the forums and take control of the hobby.

For years one of the biggest complaints is that the FS development teams did not provide enough communication in order to clarify the SDK’s and provide better support with the ins and outs of Flight Simulator.

Now, when the decision to allow that critical communication to take place has become a reality, it is being met with some fairly “off the wall” reasoning behind it.

Like the man said, there are no black helicopters waiting over the horizon. Microsoft and the FS development team have simply answered the years of outcry for open communication so the FS community will have access to a better Flight Sim experience.

I think some of the things that have been said by allot of people in these and other forums have been totally uncalled for and totally unwarranted.

After years of having no access I would thing the word “appreciation” would be better regarded. Some of the things I have seen written I have found it quite surprising and very sad.

That’s my opinion.

M$ does not sign my paycheck either.

Like I said before, I feel sorry for the ACES team after seeing all this negative wrap from the community. Like I said before, they did almost everything we asked and all we do is accuse them of conspiracy. What's next? They give us the source code and we start accusing them more?

Well said!!

I couldn't have even hoped to put that better myself.

Jasper.

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I genuinely understand your concerns Roger. I have worked for large conglomerates most of my life and have seen quite a bit when it comes to big business. Over the last 30 years I have seen some things in corporate memos and actions that would make your hair stand up. What I have come to learn is that the actions of those in charge at the time of such decisions and practices do not make up a company, what it was founded on or where it may be in 30 years. Lessons are learned, new people move up, the bad leaves, some returns, the list goes on and so does life.

I am not saying you are incorrect about the possibilities involved with sponsorship of what is typically considered a personal blog communication but I think your concerns are being expressed in such a ‘doomsday’ way it places a very dark slant on the people who are involved.

These are people who have a genuine appreciation and enthusiasm for what they do for a living and not what the Board of Directors are planning behind closed doors Roger.

I don’t and never did see those postings as personal blogs from the first time I started reading them. They look more like a typical bulletin board where you are suppose to “stay tuned” for more information. There is nothing hidden or sinister about that.

Let’s say for just a moment you are absolutely right and it’s all a big corporate plan to lie to the public about the intentions of the blog site and use it to create a publicity whirlwind so FSX sells more copies. SO WHAT?

I would call that trading a few “pop-up” ads like I get at even the best web sites for news and information such as CNN, for having ACCESS to what is important; the people who make Flight Simulator work and who are willing to be involved with the community.

It’s people Roger. The part I see you and others forgetting about is the people involved. Do you really believe these guys have sat in on some type of high level marketing meeting where they all sinisterly came up with this huge bull-dung campaign specifically designed for nothing more than selling the next generation sim software with no regard for what they are saying or doing as long as it sells more product?

Come-On Roger, I know you are more intelligent than that.  

Lets give the people involved a bit more credit than assuming they would allow themselves to be part of some huge corporate conspiracy to put one over on the public. A blog or a bulletin board is not a major site or a huge advertising gimmick, be realistic.

These guys are just making a living and have been fortunate to have the resources backing them so they can do what they like to do and what they do best.

Give the people some credit Roger.

Although from time to time when I look at M$ I see a spoiled child who is self centered and that needs a really good spanking for being naughty, I don't see the corporate bogie-man hiding in the shadows waiting to pounce.

Give the FS development people a break Roger. They have made themselves available to the public. They understood when they agreed to be in that position there was going to be criticism of their work, artistic and otherwise, but I do not think they expected to be labeled with the slant that you and a lot of others are suggesting.

This entire thing has gone WAY out of proportion and borders on PURE paranoia.

It’s starting to sound like a McCarthy era “communist” witch hunt where your next door neighbor sees the commies coming and tries to arm and rally the neighborhood. The next thing you know your digging a 50' bomb shelter in the back yard with a hand shovel because the "big one" is coming. It’s just mind boggling how hilarious that paranoia visual is to me.



These people should be welcomed, given the benefit of the doubt for their reasons in being available to the community, not insulted or pushed away.


Please give them a break Roger

"Ah, but the strawberries! That's where I had them. They laughed and made jokes, but I provided beyond the shadow of a doubt, and with geometric logic, that a duplicate key to the wardroom icebox did exist. And I'd have produced that key if they hadn't pulled the Caine out of action. I know now they were out to protect some fellow officer...."

To put it at my point of view;for shure there are lots of other things, similar to the one that you are concerned about,that should make you worry even more, but not the fact that MS wants to make some profit by selling a new FS.

And what shouldn't have happened, did...

I agree with tdragger in that people are being a bit paranoic about m$ policy...

I hope you come back tdragger because a lot of us do appreciate imensly what you and other guys are trying to do in order to reach the comunity...

cheers

~S~ tdragger

I agree, this certainly has been interesting and certainly a hot thread to say the least.

Having been in hot water myself in these forums just recently, I may be pushing my luck a bit with this post so I'll try and remain as constructive as I can even though some are bound to disagree. I have my tin hat ready.

I would like to suggest that it might be better with hindsight (Ah wonderful thing!) not to have taken the strategy you talk of. You say yourself that you are somewhat surprised at the outcome, even with the best intentions.

Perhaps it would be a better policy to simply give us the product, leave us to evaluate it and if it lives upto expectations as consumers we would be happy to continue doing business. If does not, we look elsewhere. This is basically the way any other consumer market works. Even in this day and age people still tend to stick with what they're happy with.

Unfortunately though forums like these do tend to have a certain polarisation about them which means when someone makes a valid and factual remark about some problem or defect etc we end up with a rock fight. Factual remarks can so easily trigger accusations of personal criticism etc, etc.

Eventually the casualty ends up being the forum itself, which is not good for any of us.

In my opinion, and I stress 'my opinion' perhaps it might be better if we are just left alone.  I don't see that these threads can be shown to have actually increased sales by any significant amount since most minds are made up one way or the other in any case.

If anything, we have just been 'throwing rocks' at each other. Not good.

Respectfully
Jasper.

1. People just don't get it...

2. People have no sence of humour...

3. People have no knowledge of sarcasm/irony...

4. People tend to be to absorved in their own threads and fail to look from the distance, ence, not getting the whole picture...

5. Microsoft, just treat us badly as you have done until FS9...People here seem to like it...

 

this started as a thread about Microsoft letting all the beta testers talk freely about their experiences...How could Microsoft do that...it is just wrong... How can they allow people to be free to talk...strange...
(oh...and by the way...I'm being sarcastic...)

Putting this one to bed guys, no more input from me.

~S~

Cya
Jasper

Ah great ! We had an opportunity to really discuss with MS guys or get some info, and now it's over.

I don't consider myself very young anymore, and I don't really give any credit to those people that believe they know the one and ony truth just because they are over 50. What I saw since the beginning of the FSX section (AND the first posts in FS9 section, which were NOT started by MS people) does not look like advertisement or control-tentative or any damned putch or whatsoever from MS.

Then what do you think about the X-Plane developpers ? Those guys have a demo as well AND their own forum, on which you can talk with them. Of course they are not in the other forums, have you seen those forum ? Take the Flightsim.com one for example, there is one post per month !

On the contrary, the FS community is very huge, and I think it's cool that some MS guys are AT LEAST paying some attention to what is said there. Where did ANYBODY see any tentative of control-taking, or advertisement, or stuff like that ? People saying that the ATC is not improved and the flight models are not improved, you call that advertisement ?!

Everybody was complaining about the lack of informations about FSX at the beginning. Now that we get informations, some people call that "propaganda". That's stupid.

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Good post, BUT, I don't think these forum threads are designed to do that. Some people just think that  

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They are direct, you havn't asked them something have you  ???

Anyway, I find this terrible, a consipiracy theory against a developer who comes HERE to talk about it. Is there a Conspiracy theory against N4gix?  


I'm leaving.

I wonder, actually, if it would not be a good idea to completely erase this FSX Forum immediately FSX is released to the public?
The FSX Forum can then be started afresh with no unpleasant memories and nasty tastes in the mouth... ...!

....and we will then get folks true feelings for the actual game simulator.......!

I'm looking to a nice brand new FSX Forum with feedback from actual users, regarding the full program.... ...!

Paul...(I hate unpleasant arguments).... 8)...!

Rollerball, let it rest. That's enough kindling added to campfire and a few of us like to let it cool down for a moment. The last thing we need a forest fire.

Roger,

I would hate to see you watching TV when the commercials come on! 

As with anything somebody is selling, it is all about the hype, the promotion, the "teasing" and of course, the marketing!

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Only of you buy the first round! 

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Dave, just now there is nothing that would give me more pleasure than to get everyone a drink in -  you, Jesse, Cleobis, Daube our mate Piston (who I guess should now be renamed Pistoff). Yep, that would be very nice  

PS...... Joe_D just saw your post above. I like your style. You're doing a good job here.