Yes, it becomes like a bad political debate after a while.

The problem I have is that the fourms are being utilized to create a "positive spin" on some isses.

To illustate this, unfortunatly, I must use tdraggers remarks.

First we get a one line response, a back handed remark,  "I used to be in marketing" when asked about the flight model.

Then we hear there in nothing wrong with it and that  third party developers have no problem working with it.

Then we hear that it was not enhanced over FS-9 due to marketing and it could not be made too realistic.

Then we hear that the FM was tweaked.

To quote " Vinny Barberino; "I'm so confused".

Bottom line, if ACES wants to use the "enthusists"  FS fourms to comunicate with the comunity and get feed back, then perhaps they should be a bit more direct and honest with their posts.

Otherwise, it degenerates to nothing more than positive spin and  it insults the base that has suppoprted MSFS all these years.

Finally I realize that tdragger has a rough job etc. and apreciate his desire to commuicate.
However the elusive/confusing nature of some of his answers leave somthing to be desired IMO
Giving tdragger the benefit of the doubt, perhaps he honestly does not agee with this.
The view from where some of us sit tends to be  bit different however.

Yup, I agree, Some people just don't get it".

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Ditto.

couldn't agree more Daube

Forums are a tiny part of the FS world. Forums attract the hard core element whereas the vast majority of FS buyers are not hard core at all & rarely visit forums.

Only about 10% of Simviation users ever visit our forum.

I KNOWN MS are not here or at any other forum for marketing. They are genuinely our to be more in contact. That aspect was put forward many months ago on the official MS site & I heard it myself about 1 year ago from Scott Andersen, head of corporate development in MSFS.

If some people believe it is 'marketing' or other less upfront stuff - who cares? Let them think it. Move on & concentrate on the program. Even it it was true - who cares? At least they are in contact ... a BIG step forward

However I am continuously surprised how fragile some members are when it comes to this stuff. They seem to concentrate on one small issue rather than the overall tone of these forums - which is incredibly positive!

If they have left then they would have left over something small sooner or later. We have people who have resigned over small issues for 6 years & we will continue to get them.

Now I say it's time to move on & keep these discussions on a positive note about

Microsoft Fight Simulator X

There are people in the world who just cannot stand other folks having different opinions to themselves. They accuse them of being intolerant, 'wrong', of not understanding an issue, distortion and goodness knows what when all they are doing is expressing their own opinions. It is they who are usually guilty of all of the 'vices' they are accusing the others of.

We have had a little of that here and to a certain extent it is still going on.

People have the right to think what they want and voice what they believe without fear of being beaten down. Others who disagree with them are always entitled to make counter claims and arguments but they do not have the right to try to shut the other people up in the hope of getting something they want.

Read the next bit.....

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So some of us here at SimV were not alone in expressing our misgivings. And is it hardly surprising, as over many years MS have created their own corporate reputation for control and secrecy and have been pretty ruthless in pursuing their own interests (check out the EU's position vis-a-vis MS).

But overnight it is all supposed to have changed - the barriers are down like the Berlin Wall - all is openness and clarity.....the leopard has changed its spots.

Maybe, maybe not. That is what I said in an earlier posting and that is what I repeat now.

But does anyone on these forums believe that a few whispered comments voicing discomfort with their marketing approach to the launch of FSX here and elsewhere would cause that mighty marketing megalyth to turn and run with its tail between its legs?

I don't think so.

My own opinion (NOTE - THIS IS MY OWN OPINION FOR GOODNESS SAKE) is that MS have realised they got it wrong. Maybe their intentions were good, I don't know. They said they wanted to communicate with the 'community' but the way they did it smacked too much of corporatism and big business.

It made a large chunk of the 'community' - ordinary people with no axe to grind - a bit uncomfortable, and they voiced those feelings here and elsewhere.

But don't worry all you people who don't agree with this. The sun will rise tomorrow, Autumn will follow Summer - and FSX will be launched whenever it was going to be. And it won't be any different because of anything anyone is saying or doing right now - it's a done deal and has been for quite a while I'd have thought.

It won't be any better  and won't get here any quicker as a result of any more 'statements' or 'announcements' being trotted out - all they are designed to do is keep the pot boiling but maybe the head of steam that's been built up was becoming a little bit too strong for the comfort of all the parties involved.

PS - I suppose that this will continue to rumble on and I did say earlier that I wouldn't make any more comments. So this really is all I will be saying about this and FSX in general. I'll leave this area of the forum to those who want to keep this head of steam a-brewing.

One last thing...

I don't think anyone disagrees when it comes to MS beiong a bit ruthless regarding marketing...I only disagree when I see people saying that the guys from ACES are here purely to markeing reasons and that they are here because M$ told them so...

I think there was a genuine wish from the ACES team to be more invilved with the comuity ad that had nothing to do with microsoft marketing strategy...

anyways...can't wait for FSX