exotic?  Cobra R?  GT500?  Mach 1?

My uncle's ford escort. After 15 years the rust made it VERY exotic! Sounded gruesome too... 

Don't mean to bust your bubble, but the new Shelby Mustang is not excactly a Shelby, and not excactly a Mustang.  It has an SVT engine , and its souped up so much, there are hardly any parts that are made by Ford.

Not to mention, I posted this topic back in April I think it was.

Do I need one?  Nah.  Do I want one.  You bet cher bottom dollar I do.  lol

Which model of pre 1990 european Ford had twin ignition coils? 

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I don't neccessarily agree with that Craig.  It is true that "exotic" better fits the European Super Cars but I think that exotic isn't a bad way of describing the new Ford GT.  Other than that, I pretty much agree with you.

American performance cars kind of go for that "bad ass" approach rather than "exotic."  And of course, why drive a Mustang when you can drive a Camaro anyway.   

A Camaro's not a waste of energy-they are a lot better than 'vettes.  A Camaro is a muscle car that is ment to be driven and a Corvette is for old folks.

Also, you should keep in mind that the only reason the Mustand ever became a performance car is because of the Camaro.  Before the Camaro's debut the Mustang really wasn't a performance car-the only way they were fast was when they were modified by Carol Shelby after production.  The Camaro was a performance car and to keep from being outsold, the Mustang had to be one as well.

I have driven Camaro's, Corvettes and Mustangs and I would perfer a Camaro over all of them.  Thats probably why I have owned 4 Camaro's during my life and no Mustangs (and no Corvettes).

Although, I do really like the new Mustangs.

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They're aren't bad.  I don't really like the newest one based on its looks and I haven't driven it.  But, I do like the looks of the previous generation.  They don't handle like a Porshe (I assume, I've never driven a Porshe) but they are most likely faster.  But, they are too expensive for my pocketbook and really aren't my kind of car.

I do like the classic one's a lot more though.  Especially the '58, '67, and '69.

I have never owned a North American car...that's partly because I don't live in North America

it seems americans really do get screwed over when it comes to european sports cars.

the ford escort RS?

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Depends where abouts in Dagenham it is Craig!

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no offense if you r not american, but I am american & is a porsche American? No. I won't touch a car if it is not american made. That is why a Chevy Corvette is better. (American Made "American Owned") Ford comes first, simply because Ford produced the very first vehical.

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Even though the conversation was about Sports Cars. I would like anybody to name a truck that can out torque the Ford F-550 Diesle Power Stroke 6 axle. Or even the F-350 Diesle Power Stroke 6 axle. Don't even try to mention a dodge or Chevy diesle 6 axle. I have had the first hand experence that dodge & chevy do not have the amount to the same amount of torque. (Dodge engine's makes alot of noise with little perfomance) I know that because in addition to my Ford Ranger I have a 1994 Dodge dakota & both trucks have a V6 and the dodge can not even compare. dodge cars have more power than a dodge truck.

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I was refering to the F-550 diesle Power Stroke 6 axle pick up truck not the like ford dump truck.

"2003-current" As far as I can tell Chevy has shut down the further production of the Camaro as of 2003. But the Ford mustang is still being produced & selling better than ever. Why would you think that is?

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Because they are a whole lot cheaper and Ford doesn't have a higher car that the Mustang competes with.  GM split their market between the Corvette and the Camaro.  Ford has never had a car that competed in the Corvette class-all they had was the Mustang.  But, the biggest reason is cost.  The Mustang was always cheaper.  In 2002 (the final Camaro year) the base price for a Camaro V6 was about $18000 while the Mustang V6 base was about $17000.  That isn't that big of a deal but with the V8 cars that Camaro was $4000 to $5000 more in some cases.

I'm not sure I'm not sure where you are getting your "selling better than ever" information but I'll tell you right now that you are very incorrect.  In fact, the Mustang sold the best in its earily years before it had any competition (and really before it had any performance).  When the Mustang was first released it created a new class for itself-there was no competition.  It was a smaller moderate performance car for the first year.  In 1966 (its second full year of production) they produced over 600,000 cars which is the highest by far.  The Camaro debuted with the 1967 model in late 1966 and Mustang sales dropped quite a bit.  Although the Mustang continued to outsell the Camaro for most of its history-it was always considered a cheaper and somewhat lower performance car.  In the late 1960s Ford added several powerful engine options to compete with the Camaro but they never topped it in power.

Historically, the Mustang is probably the more successiful car (and its a fine car).  But, the Camaro was a higher performance car during its 35 years.  And, there are plans to bring the Camaro back into production.

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I don't know about that.  The Camaro is what brought the high performance to the "Pony Car" class.  Although it came out after the Mustang it was in the design phase before the Mustang was released (so it wasn't built to simply compete with the Mustang).  I won't deny that the Camaro was tuned to compete with the Mustang-but had it not came along that class probably wouldn't have become known for high performance.  Because, in 1967 when the Camaro debuted with a 375hp motor option it sparked the competitive juices of its Ford counterpart (and eventually Mopar as the Baracuda was changed to compete with this group and the Challenger was introduced).  Ford and Chevy competed with each other to make a faster car and they pushed the "Pony Car" class up to 435hp one year (1969 Camaro ZL-1 COPO).  Not to mention the many aftermarket designers and dealers who pushed it even farther (most famously Carol Shelby and Don Yenko).

I'm not trying to say that the Mustang is a bad car-its not, its a great American car.  But, I think the Camaro is a better car and thats my opinion.  Of course I am a little bias towards the Camaro.  I have personally owned 4 of them and during my life my family has had 2 others and never a Mustang.  But, both are fine cars (and the new Mustang looks great).

I wont even waste my time in the why, foreign cars are better debate. The list is too long. You want your pickups thats fine, generally we have no use for them here. But you want a decent sports car, you dont buy one thats american. You want a muscle car, then you do. But just remember sports car and muscle car are differant. I wouldn't seriously consider racing some muscle cars because although you may get to a corner first, the thing sure as hell isn't coming round it in first. Richie already knows i like some of these muscle cars, camaros and mustangs included. This debate is as pointless as airbus or boeing because 95% of the time its actually one country vs the other with no-one usually going over the facts and figures.

Dont get me wrong i like these cars but the arguments can never be completely unbiased. And in the end each car suits a purpose, if your in the US the corvette is a fine car, its good in a straight line, but generally with the winding roads of europe it wouldn't be the best choice. Thats why porsche, mercedes, BMW and Ferrari are big here. designed for the narrow winding roads.

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The funny thing is that this topic was started base on junt the 1967 Mustang Shelby GT500 & we got into a large debate on the cars of the world. I never expeted that when I started this topic :)

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What is exactly wrong with my spelling. If I ever did not spell something correctl I can guarantee that it was a simple typo.
Note: I may not always be grammatically correct because I really don't pay attention to that, I just focus on getting my point acrossed.

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It all depend's on the consumer. If I wanted a F-350 I can choose to get the F-350 6.0 V8 Turbo Diesel or I can Choose to get the 7.3 V10 Turbo Diesel. I know for a fact the towing power of the F-350 V8 Turbo Diesel Power Stroke, Can pull up to 15000 lbs, I know this cause a friend has one & pulled his moble home with his F-350 power stroke, I had some pix, but they were deleted by accident off my Camera. There is no doubt it my mind that the Ford F-350 V10 Turbo Diesel can pull at least 30000 lbs, besides the fact that the rear end of the truck can not support that much weight(Front wheels would pop up), The engine can with out a doubt pull it. No is we were talking about a bed mounted reese hitch, then you can set a trailor weighing in at 30000 lbs & the truck will not hesitate to pull it.

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I noticed that they were simple mistakes after I posted that. Sorry.

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Actully all truck brands set to the side, Any diesel engine will out live a gas engine by several years. no matter who makes it.

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You read me like a book :)

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The Ford F-350 V10 Turbo Diesel power stroke is only by special order so it certainly does exist. Also, because this particular truck is only availible by special order, there is absoulutly no performance specification's about this truck published. I think is is completly ludicrous to buy a F-350 V10 Power Stroke (Gas) Just sit back & think about it (Not just a F-350 but any V10 Truck) With the way gas prices are these days, a V10 truck gets probley 10 mi./gal of gas, (This figure is just a estimate of the top of my head from former statistics)

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Yeah, that is exactly why Cummins engines are installed in the new freightliners.

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As I said in my last post, the V10 diesel is only available
by special order directly from Ford. So, there is no documentation about this truck. It is not mass produced simply because this particular truck is only built to tailor to people's special needs for a truck that powerful. If it was mass produced Ford would lose alot of money because very few would buy this truck off the lot. The only reason I even know that this truck exists is because my best friend's grand father owns a Ford dealership in North Carolina.

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I will look & see what I can come up with...

P.S. YAY ME.....  200 Post LOL, 200 post, only took me a year.

I didn't know about the mileage-thats incredible.  And I have been complaining about the 8-10mpg I'm going to get with my new motor for the Camaro.  

My understanding that the difference between the F-250 and F-350 doesn't have to do with the motor.  The F-250 is the 3/4-ton model and the F-350 is the 1-ton model.  I assume that they use simular engine packages for both because they are very simular in size.

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Don't worry about it, we all make mistakes-I had no idea that a conversion is avilable.  Thats very interesting.

what do you mean which one? as in what year? or what engine size or what?

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Couldn't agree more


The new Cobra GT500 is just one of the worst places to put the Shelby name.  All it is is a SVT product with Shelby stickers on it

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huh? I didn't really get you on that one. the cobra has always been a almost completely different car than the mustang (engine, gear box, chasis, drivetrain, interior, sound system, wheels/tire) and all by svt (which is ford special vehical team (a division OF FORD, in the same way as AMG is part of mercedes).

am i misunderstanding your argument?

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What Model & year, if you want.

For example, Mk1 Escort RS 2000 Circa 1976, which, it isn't.

???

answering Pauls(4-series) challenge.

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Your extremely close !!!   - 1981 > 1984. 

Sorry about any confusion USA3000 !