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Ooooh, How exciting.... (Read 464 times)
May 21
st
, 2005 at 6:53pm
C
Offline
Colonel
Earth
Posts: 13144
Whoopy do, look at this for taking the fun out of flying...
Push button plane landing hailed
Over the last 6 months this bl**dy aeroplane has done its level best to disable my hearing!
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Reply #1 -
May 21
st
, 2005 at 6:55pm
Craig.
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Colonel
Birmingham
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70% of the budget went on that i bet.
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Reply #2 -
May 21
st
, 2005 at 7:00pm
C
Offline
Colonel
Earth
Posts: 13144
It is ironic that JSF ideas are being tested on a 1968 vintage Harrier I (T4)...
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Reply #3 -
May 21
st
, 2005 at 10:20pm
chomp_rock
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Colonel
I must confess, I was
born at a very early
age.
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Posts: 2718
Agreed Charlie... I'd have tested the tech on a JSF, much easier to impliment and safer as well...
That is why "military intelligence" is an oxymoron
AMD Athlon 64 3700+&&GeForce FX5200 256Mb&&1GB DDR400 DC&&Seagate 500Gb SATA-300 HDD&&Windows XP Professional X64 Edition
&&&&That's right, I'm now using an AMD! I decided to give them another try and they kicked the pants off of my P4 3.4!
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Reply #4 -
May 22
nd
, 2005 at 3:05am
ozzy72
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Global Moderator
Pretty scary huh?
Madsville
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Hey Chomp it works so don't knock it
There are two types of aeroplane, Spitfires and everything else that wishes it was a Spitfire!
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Reply #5 -
May 22
nd
, 2005 at 8:09am
Felix/FFDS
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FINALLY an official Granddad!
Orlando, FL
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Quote:
Agreed Charlie... I'd have tested the tech on a JSF, much easier to impliment and safer as well...
That is why "military intelligence" is an oxymoron
I disagree with you on two counts:
1. By using a known quantity (a Harrier) to test a new technology, you can reasonably isolate any problems to that new technology. In the unfortunate event that you lose the testbed (Harrier) you're out just an old airframe who's cost you've already spent (presuming the pilot is saved, of course). By using the JSF to do the initial tests, there's that much more to go wrong.
2. My son's in military intelligence, and the kid is smart (after all, I'm his dad.... wait that doesn't help the argument!) All joking aside, I've a deep respect for Military Intelligence, vs a deep concern for "Government by Committee" -- which ultimately is the corenerstone of (most) Western-style coutries, although not always are the best decisions taken.
Felix/
FFDS
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Reply #6 -
May 22
nd
, 2005 at 8:52am
C
Offline
Colonel
Earth
Posts: 13144
Quote:
Agreed Charlie... I'd have tested the tech on a JSF, much easier to impliment and safer as well...
I'd say the 1968 Harrier is the safer bet at the moment (well, the JSF as such doesn't exist except in X-35 form) - it's got releatively few hours, and this particular aircraft, the VAAC (
Vectored-thrust Aircraft Advanced flight Control
) has been used as such since 1986.
The key to the safety of the aircraft is the front seat pilot. He is a safety pilot in an essentially stock Harrier I cockpit, ready to catch it if the system goes la-la...
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Reply #7 -
May 22
nd
, 2005 at 9:09am
ozzy72
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Global Moderator
Pretty scary huh?
Madsville
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Unless the pilot is me
There are two types of aeroplane, Spitfires and everything else that wishes it was a Spitfire!
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Reply #8 -
May 22
nd
, 2005 at 9:17am
C
Offline
Colonel
Earth
Posts: 13144
Quote:
Unless the pilot is me
Yeah, a Harrier hovering in your favourite mode of flight Mark would...
a) not hover
b) turn up somewhat early for its prearranged engagement with Mr Terry Firmer....
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Reply #9 -
May 22
nd
, 2005 at 11:32am
Ivan
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Colonel
No, I'm NOT Russian, I
only like Russian aircraft
The netherlands
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Quote:
It is ironic that JSF ideas are being tested on a 1968 vintage Harrier I (T4)...
It's stupid to test ANY of the JSF STOVL systems on the Harrier...
But as the harrier is the only STOVL plane in the west they had to use it as the russians did phase out the Forger and the Yak-141.
Quote:
By using the JSF to do the initial tests, there's that much more to go wrong
Same goes for the Harrier, totally different liftfan system (harrier has 4 moveable pipes, JSF has 1x liftfan and 90 degree exhaust pipe movement range)
Only cool thing with the JSF is that it will melt the runway just like the Yak-141 did... full power on the liftfan and afterburner switched on for the main engine
Russian planes:
IL-76 (all standard length ones)
,
Tu-154 and Il-62
,
Tu-134
and
An-24RV
&&&&AI flightplans and repaints can be found
here
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Reply #10 -
May 22
nd
, 2005 at 12:00pm
C
Offline
Colonel
Earth
Posts: 13144
Quote:
It's stupid to test ANY of the JSF STOVL systems on the Harrier...
Its actually very sensible because the aircraft was already configured to test digital flight control systems. That is also why it doesn't matter that it has the four Harrier jet pipes rather than the seperate lift engine of the JSF/JCA, as the controls are entirely digital.
It should also be said that this isn't the JSF control system, just one researching possible control laws and systems for possible integration into the final aircraft. You should see the rear seat controls. Awesome...
Come to think of it, its probably easier to simulate a JSF/JCA with a Harrier than vice versa...
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Reply #11 -
May 22
nd
, 2005 at 1:02pm
beefhole
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Colonel
common' yigs!
Philadelphia
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Posts: 4466
Quote:
That is why "military intelligence" is an oxymoron
I'm really kind of tired of this old joke. The real times that military intel comes through, which is about 90% of the time, you're never going to hear about. I just wish people would stop following the crowd and really think about it for a sec.
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Reply #12 -
May 22
nd
, 2005 at 4:30pm
chomp_rock
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Colonel
I must confess, I was
born at a very early
age.
Gender:
Posts: 2718
I work for the government and work with the military... What I say is based on my own observations. I've seen screw-ups that nobody in the civilian will ever know about, a lot of them very expensive.
And beefhole, that 90% figure... You don't know what the hell you are talking about!
AMD Athlon 64 3700+&&GeForce FX5200 256Mb&&1GB DDR400 DC&&Seagate 500Gb SATA-300 HDD&&Windows XP Professional X64 Edition
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Reply #13 -
May 22
nd
, 2005 at 5:07pm
Felix/FFDS
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Admin
FINALLY an official Granddad!
Orlando, FL
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Quote:
And beefhole, that 90% figure... You don't know what the hell you are talking about!
Do you?
The overall point is that painting "military intelligence" with a broad brush is dangerous, especially to the ones who do get it right, 99-100% of the time. Of course you can point out blunders all the time (Dien Bien Phu, Gallipoli, etc). "Military Intelligence is an oxymoron" makes for a nice ha-ha funny moment, but it is a disservice to those working -seriously - inb it.
Felix/
FFDS
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Reply #14 -
May 22
nd
, 2005 at 5:14pm
C
Offline
Colonel
Earth
Posts: 13144
Back on topic, ("Military Intelligence" - mine's questionable
- aside), it's a bl**dy clever aeroplane. Pretty colour scheme too...
I just wish I could simulate its controls in FS9...
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Reply #15 -
May 22
nd
, 2005 at 5:32pm
beefhole
Offline
Colonel
common' yigs!
Philadelphia
Gender:
Posts: 4466
Quote:
And beefhole, that 90% figure... You don't know what the hell you are talking about!
You should probably ask if I know what the hell I'm talking about first, lol
I'm not trying to be flashy or anything, I'm giving you my source. My buddie's brother is a Major in the marine corps who works intelligence, also PR with the Iraqi locals when he was overseas. He tells me the things people say are blown WAAAY out of porportion-one person says "ha, military intel sucks" and then the next person goes "umm, yeah, it does" and then on and on. I'm inclined to believe him-I've never once in my life just repeated back what somebody said to me without thinkin a little first.
As for the red button, I don't see how it's gonna really affect the way they fly-sounds to me like the pilots would only be using it in situations when they wouldn't be able to fly anyway.
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