Simviation Forum - Ooooh, How exciting....

May 21^st, 2005 at 6:53pm

C Offline
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Whoopy do, look at this for taking the fun out of flying...

Push button plane landing hailed

Over the last 6 months this bl**dy aeroplane has done its level best to disable my hearing! Grin

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Reply #1 - May 21^st, 2005 at 6:55pm

Craig. Offline
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70% of the budget went on that i bet. Roll Eyes

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Reply #2 - May 21^st, 2005 at 7:00pm

C Offline
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It is ironic that JSF ideas are being tested on a 1968 vintage Harrier I (T4)...

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Reply #3 - May 21^st, 2005 at 10:20pm

chomp_rock Offline
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Agreed Charlie... I'd have tested the tech on a JSF, much easier to impliment and safer as well...

That is why "military intelligence" is an oxymoron Grin

AMD Athlon 64 3700+&&GeForce FX5200 256Mb&&1GB DDR400 DC&&Seagate 500Gb SATA-300 HDD&&Windows XP Professional X64 Edition&&&&That's right, I'm now using an AMD! I decided to give them another try and they kicked the pants off of my P4 3.4!

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Reply #4 - May 22^nd, 2005 at 3:05am

ozzy72 Offline
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Hey Chomp it works so don't knock it Wink

There are two types of aeroplane, Spitfires and everything else that wishes it was a Spitfire!

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Reply #5 - May 22^nd, 2005 at 8:09am

Felix/FFDS Offline
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Quote:

Agreed Charlie... I'd have tested the tech on a JSF, much easier to impliment and safer as well...

That is why "military intelligence" is an oxymoron Grin

I disagree with you on two counts:

1. By using a known quantity (a Harrier) to test a new technology, you can reasonably isolate any problems to that new technology. In the unfortunate event that you lose the testbed (Harrier) you're out just an old airframe who's cost you've already spent (presuming the pilot is saved, of course). By using the JSF to do the initial tests, there's that much more to go wrong.

2. My son's in military intelligence, and the kid is smart (after all, I'm his dad.... wait that doesn't help the argument!) All joking aside, I've a deep respect for Military Intelligence, vs a deep concern for "Government by Committee" -- which ultimately is the corenerstone of (most) Western-style coutries, although not always are the best decisions taken.

Felix/FFDS

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Reply #6 - May 22^nd, 2005 at 8:52am

C Offline
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Quote:

Agreed Charlie... I'd have tested the tech on a JSF, much easier to impliment and safer as well...

I'd say the 1968 Harrier is the safer bet at the moment (well, the JSF as such doesn't exist except in X-35 form) - it's got releatively few hours, and this particular aircraft, the VAAC (Vectored-thrust Aircraft Advanced flight Control) has been used as such since 1986.

The key to the safety of the aircraft is the front seat pilot. He is a safety pilot in an essentially stock Harrier I cockpit, ready to catch it if the system goes la-la...

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Reply #7 - May 22^nd, 2005 at 9:09am

ozzy72 Offline
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Unless the pilot is me Grin

There are two types of aeroplane, Spitfires and everything else that wishes it was a Spitfire!

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Reply #8 - May 22^nd, 2005 at 9:17am

C Offline
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Unless the pilot is me Grin

Yeah, a Harrier hovering in your favourite mode of flight Mark would...

a) not hover

b) turn up somewhat early for its prearranged engagement with Mr Terry Firmer.... Grin

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Reply #9 - May 22^nd, 2005 at 11:32am

Ivan Offline
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Quote:

It is ironic that JSF ideas are being tested on a 1968 vintage Harrier I (T4)...

It's stupid to test ANY of the JSF STOVL systems on the Harrier...
But as the harrier is the only STOVL plane in the west they had to use it as the russians did phase out the Forger and the Yak-141.

Quote:

By using the JSF to do the initial tests, there's that much more to go wrong

Same goes for the Harrier, totally different liftfan system (harrier has 4 moveable pipes, JSF has 1x liftfan and 90 degree exhaust pipe movement range)

Only cool thing with the JSF is that it will melt the runway just like the Yak-141 did... full power on the liftfan and afterburner switched on for the main engine

Russian planes: IL-76 (all standard length ones), Tu-154 and Il-62, Tu-134 and An-24RV&&&&AI flightplans and repaints can be found here

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Reply #10 - May 22^nd, 2005 at 12:00pm

C Offline
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Quote:

It's stupid to test ANY of the JSF STOVL systems on the Harrier...

Its actually very sensible because the aircraft was already configured to test digital flight control systems. That is also why it doesn't matter that it has the four Harrier jet pipes rather than the seperate lift engine of the JSF/JCA, as the controls are entirely digital.

It should also be said that this isn't the JSF control system, just one researching possible control laws and systems for possible integration into the final aircraft. You should see the rear seat controls. Awesome...

Come to think of it, its probably easier to simulate a JSF/JCA with a Harrier than vice versa...

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Reply #11 - May 22^nd, 2005 at 1:02pm

beefhole Offline
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That is why "military intelligence" is an oxymoron Grin

I'm really kind of tired of this old joke. The real times that military intel comes through, which is about 90% of the time, you're never going to hear about. I just wish people would stop following the crowd and really think about it for a sec.

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Reply #12 - May 22^nd, 2005 at 4:30pm

chomp_rock Offline
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I work for the government and work with the military... What I say is based on my own observations. I've seen screw-ups that nobody in the civilian will ever know about, a lot of them very expensive.

And beefhole, that 90% figure... You don't know what the hell you are talking about!

AMD Athlon 64 3700+&&GeForce FX5200 256Mb&&1GB DDR400 DC&&Seagate 500Gb SATA-300 HDD&&Windows XP Professional X64 Edition&&&&That's right, I'm now using an AMD! I decided to give them another try and they kicked the pants off of my P4 3.4!

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Reply #13 - May 22^nd, 2005 at 5:07pm

Felix/FFDS Offline
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And beefhole, that 90% figure... You don't know what the hell you are talking about!

Do you?

The overall point is that painting "military intelligence" with a broad brush is dangerous, especially to the ones who do get it right, 99-100% of the time. Of course you can point out blunders all the time (Dien Bien Phu, Gallipoli, etc). "Military Intelligence is an oxymoron" makes for a nice ha-ha funny moment, but it is a disservice to those working -seriously - inb it.

Felix/FFDS

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Reply #14 - May 22^nd, 2005 at 5:14pm

C Offline
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Back on topic, ("Military Intelligence" - mine's questionable Wink

- aside), it's a bl**dy clever aeroplane. Pretty colour scheme too...

I just wish I could simulate its controls in FS9... Roll Eyes

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