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Freeware development - what do you reckon? (Read 10490 times)
May 7th, 2011 at 10:03am

pete   Offline
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Yay or nay?

I'm not too positive on this one.

I read an article breiefly that mentioned the idea of a 'central marketplace' for 3rd party addons.

If M$ are going to do an Apple and try to control the whole product and all addons the future is not that bright.

I also believe that if there is no freeware available they will drastically reduce the lifespan. Freeware addons have kept the air blowing through the sails of the MSFS franchise since at least the mid 80's. Without that, and without having to spend $100's on regular addons (or they may be called 'aps') - will the long term popularity be the same? I personally doubt it. It will be a different thing entirely. & maybe that's just what they want ......

Open development ability means open to real, self driven, talent. True talent from around the world. That was built into FS before MS bought the franchise.
« Last Edit: May 8th, 2011 at 2:58am by pete »  

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Reply #1 - May 7th, 2011 at 10:33am

alrot   Offline
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I being saying Over and Over in this part of the forum(trying to see if by miracle some one up there M$ would come to their senses ),MICROSOFT FLIGHT SIMULATOR SERIES HAS BEEN THE MOST SUCCESSFUL IN THE HISTORY OF GAMES FOR COMPUTERS WHEN FREEWARE AIRPLANES MODELS CAME OUT AND SO WEBSITES DEDICATED TO THIS WONDERFUL GAME (at the begining mostly were mostly freewares)
I hate this New "Flight" ,M$ doesn't realize that MSFS previous success  was because this is a triple type of device for a computer

1) to play as a game
2)to Learn and simulates a real airplane flight
3)
To Design things sceneries , Airplanes and more


of course I'll repeat it once again they just think only in the money ,they release FSX with all the problems that still have ,none of the service pack fixed FSX-Sp1&2 ,and one of most outrageous thing sale the service pack 2 using the Aceleration "excuse" and say we will release the sp2 in 4 month who wasn't going to buy it?

service packs by law has to be free ,its to fix their bugs of their games or O/S, YOU already paid for the game,
EXAMPLE you buy a new Car and a day after the brakes doesn't work , companies has to fix it as a guarantee

the Invent the tale that the fire the Ace team because of the USA resesion that's BS was to avoid a sue.

,when FSX was release it Few people could export models using the FSX-SDK ,today almost every one can ,but they also not using it because any model can be Import back and any one can use others model , this was impossible back in FS2004 02 00

I'm not doing from now airplanes all the eyes of MSFS enthusiasts  are in this Flight , that after its release people slowly will return to FSX and FS9
or maybe will move to other alternatives (planex for example)

to me if this is the deal ,this is the end of this beautiful game Cry...
« Last Edit: May 8th, 2011 at 10:35am by alrot »  

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Reply #2 - May 7th, 2011 at 5:48pm

Strawberry Yogurt   Offline
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If they do that, they lost my sale. Who's with me?
 

I went outside once. The graphics weren't all that great.

Burn the land and boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me.



...
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Reply #3 - May 8th, 2011 at 4:58am

pete   Offline
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Quote from a previous thread:

Quote:
Just because ACES made one mistake in the over 28 years of the MSFS series with FSX, why would the next version automatically be a failure?


Actually M$FS/Aces have made quite a few errors when they have not listened to the prime users of their product. Think CFS3/ FS2000.

It's not about anything like default aircraft. It's about the core of the product, how it works, and what can be done with it to customise it for individual tastes - and to be able to do that freely and easily. That can only be done with the input of a huge community - not a few hired staff.

In a huge development program, no-one can expect a bug free release and it's natural that bugs/ errors will emerge when the users start to use it intensively.

However I really hope M$ have learned from the past and listen BIG TIME to it's long time users. They say they have done this with W7. Let's see if 'listening' is a new general M$ practice.
 

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Reply #4 - May 8th, 2011 at 10:35am

Daube   Offline
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pete wrote on May 7th, 2011 at 10:03am:
Yay or nay?

I'm not too positive on this one.

I read an article breiefly that mentioned the idea of a 'central marketplace' for 3rd party addons.

If M$ are going to do an Apple and try to control the whole product and all addons the future is not that bright.


On the other hand, the Apple Store and Android Market are full of freeware applications...
 
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Reply #5 - May 8th, 2011 at 2:57pm

Strategic Retreat   Offline
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Strawberry Yogurt wrote on May 7th, 2011 at 5:48pm:
If they do that, they lost my sale. Who's with me?


With my heart bleeding and without any kind of exuberance, I am.

It does not bode well. Our last only hopes may lay in the hand of Laminar Research and the guys behind Flightgear only... and if and when that'll happen, it'll be a sad day indeed. The day Flight Simulator died. Sad
 

There is no such a thing as overkill. Only unworthy targets.
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Reply #6 - May 10th, 2011 at 7:49am

Flying Mouse   Offline
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One only need to look at Silent Hunters latest release.

Ubisoft moved away from the simulation effect to cater for a broader audience and look what happend.

They themself destroyed the series. They suffered major losses because of ignoring inputs made by their most loyal customer base.

Ofcourse the online connection requirements also contributed to the failure.

I for one am glad FSX is as powerfull as it is with it's add-ons because we might possibly have the same scenario as with Silent Hunter where majority folks rather stay with older versions then support newer versions because of company imposed greed.

As I also said right from the beginning, FSX created a high benchmark within the flightsim community & MS Flight will have to be perfect to equal or surpass such.
 

Coolermaster Storm Enforcer Chassis/ Corsair TX750W PSU/ Gigabyte Ga-990fxa Mobo/ AMD Phenom X4 965 BE 3.4Ghz C3/Coolermaster V6GT CPU air cooler/ 8GB RAM Corsair DDR3 2000Mhz/ Gigabyte GTX570 Overclocked Edition GPU/ Windows 7 Prem 64bit/ 750Gb & 150Gb (FSX Dedicated) Sata's/ 23" Samsung BX2331 LED / Logitec S510 Wireless keyboard & Mouse. Logitec Force 3D Pro Joystick. Logitec Headset.
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Reply #7 - May 10th, 2011 at 8:07am

Daube   Offline
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But concretely, what would be the downsides of a central marketplace for Flight addons ? I fail to see them, in fact...
Would that prevent payware devs to propose addons ? No.
Would that prevent freeware devs to propose addons? No.
Would that prevent noobs from posting billions topics about "how to install this or this" ? Yes, definitely.
So what's the problem ?
 
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Reply #8 - May 10th, 2011 at 11:57am

JBaymore   Offline
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The question is .....will Microsoft actually allow freeware to exist?  That marketplace might be all paid offerings.  If they require a lot of rigamarole for a developer to register for the market,that would be the same as not allowing freeware.

best,

.....john
 

... ...Intel i7 960 quad 3.2G LGA 1366, Asus P6X58D Premium, 750W Corsair, 6 gig 1600 DDR3, Spinpoint 1TB 7200 HD, Caviar 500G 7200 HD, GTX275 1280M,  Logitec Z640, Win7 Pro 64b, CH Products yoke, pedals + throttle quad, simpit
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Reply #9 - May 10th, 2011 at 1:04pm

pete   Offline
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Quote:
But concretely, what would be the downsides of a central marketplace for Flight addons ? I fail to see them, in fact...
Would that prevent payware devs to propose addons ? No.
Would that prevent freeware devs to propose addons? No.
Would that prevent noobs from posting billions topics about "how to install this or this" ? Yes, definitely.
So what's the problem ?


BIG and to me, obvious problem. We don't want M$ to be controlling available products.

Control will stifle creativity big time for all kinds of reasons.

Do you think if everyone had to go MS Insider for FSX and FS2004 addons there would be anything like the community we have today? Not a fraction.  People want choice in the world.
And you can bet anything free would be in a 'buy 10 and get one free' situation.

None of our freeware designers would be involved I am sure.
 

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Reply #10 - May 10th, 2011 at 1:52pm

alrot   Offline
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pete wrote on May 10th, 2011 at 1:04pm:
Do you think if everyone had to go MS Insider for FSX and FS2004 addons there
would be anything like the community[ we have today? Not a fraction.
  People want choice in the world.




I never seen it this way , All Big sites ,Simviation Avsim flightsim,Sim-Outhouse etc ,All Site devoted to creation and development  for these games FS Developer ,FFDS etc , all communities that has grown up thru all these years EXIST because for this reason
"Independent Adds On "
,
I never heard sites about Resident Evil forums or Counter strike forums, Need for speed forums  and if they existed they vanished quickly ,MSFS Comunity exist as far as I know since 1998,Yes this is a comunity that exist due to the liberty to change default things  ,IT never gets old BECAUSE freeware or payware products come out every month, and people paid or get it free ,this has been the key of all this
M$ will destroy everything its being done ,They never even care ,
they never ask themselves
Why after so many years we are still sale FS2004? ,they just grab the money

"Flight" will be a closed game ,no community for this and the death of MSFS community 

and maybe MSFS series was the unique and only game for grown up people   

and you might ask ,Why? ,BECAUSE people will Jump and rush to buy this "Flight" and M$ will try to erase FSX-FS9 to sale more its new product ,people will ignore the consequences of this .

Man this is serious ,I been in this since 98 ,I meet this whole world thru this sites ,I learn to make airplanes because of the help of these communities 


.  
« Last Edit: May 10th, 2011 at 4:58pm by alrot »  

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Reply #11 - May 10th, 2011 at 2:30pm

Daube   Offline
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pete wrote on May 10th, 2011 at 1:04pm:
Quote:
But concretely, what would be the downsides of a central marketplace for Flight addons ? I fail to see them, in fact...
Would that prevent payware devs to propose addons ? No.
Would that prevent freeware devs to propose addons? No.
Would that prevent noobs from posting billions topics about "how to install this or this" ? Yes, definitely.
So what's the problem ?


BIG and to me, obvious problem. We don't want M$ to be controlling available products.

Control will stifle creativity big time for all kinds of reasons.

Do you think if everyone had to go MS Insider for FSX and FS2004 addons there would be anything like the community we have today? Not a fraction.  People want choice in the world.
And you can bet anything free would be in a 'buy 10 and get one free' situation.

None of our freeware designers would be involved I am sure.


You still haven't made comments on my previous remark.
Apple has a central appstore, and it's full of freeware.
Google (Android) has a central appstore, and it's full of freeware too.
So why would an MS appstore forbid freeware products ?

EDIT: don't get me wrong. Of course I would prefer to have multiple sources of addons. But I do not see the existence of an official MS appstore as a problem so far.
 
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Reply #12 - May 10th, 2011 at 3:00pm

pete   Offline
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Yes and I avoid Apple completely. I'm not the only one. Apple is very innovative - but I think will suffer in the long term by controlling all and everything.

Bottleknecked control is in the long term anti competitive and leads to a reduced market.

Apple is also a MASS market range of products. MSFS is not. It's a niche market and a small arm of the corporate giant Microsoft which purchased the Flight Simulator franchise from Bruce Artwick back in the 80's. Luckily Bruce built in 'open source development'. If it wasn't for that it would certainly have died like a range of others ... way back sometime.

Android on the other hand to Apple, allows anyone to distribute products. Long term much better.

MS Flight Freeware will depend whether 3rd party development is possible without having to do something like purchase the SDK - which wouldn't surprise me.

Remember the WHOLE of the Internet would not exist without freeware. Apache, Linux. BSD etc. Open source means the best brains around the world contribute.

It's a simple equasion. You can't hire, or one company vet, the best. The best do their thing and the best of the best get through. Hence the Internet. Hence almost every useful thing we have today. Not done for money. Done by individuals with a passion and an idea.
« Last Edit: May 10th, 2011 at 4:11pm by pete »  

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Reply #13 - May 10th, 2011 at 4:36pm

Strategic Retreat   Offline
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alrot wrote on May 10th, 2011 at 1:52pm:
M$ will destroy everything its being done ,They never even care ,
they never ask themselves
Why after so many years we are still sale FS2004? ,they just grab the money.


They never do. For all their supposed genius, they end up looking like fools every single damn time.

Then again, I've seen it with my eyes in a much smaller scale: everything for a buck right now, even at the expenses of future incomings... and then file for bankruptcy...

Differently from that my old acquaintance maybe M$ will not go bankrupt for the sole FS taking a splashing plunge into the sewer, but the whole community will be poorer for it.

Not that they ever cared for any community, of course.



alrot wrote on May 10th, 2011 at 1:52pm:
"Flight" will be a closed game, no community for this and the death of MSFS community.


I hope you're wrong. I hope I am wrong.

I dread we're all correct.
 

There is no such a thing as overkill. Only unworthy targets.
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Reply #14 - May 10th, 2011 at 5:04pm

alrot   Offline
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Quote:
I dread we're all correct.


maybe even worse ,a unique WWW Forum from M$ Insider  Embarrassed

I being love these games for more than a decade ,I'm a huge fan like most of the people in this forum and I just don't want other way, without a super company control, I would buy this game if it brings and SDK ,I understand if OLd MDL won't work in the new flight ,But allows us the freeware designers to use our saved source models to be exported in whatever new format they will use ,

Please people from Microsoft allow us the freeware designers to enjoy the making airplanes for free ,I receive letter from all over the world given me thanks ,Its a pleasure from the whole process of making them to see people enjoy my work   

other wise ,I will be the one wh will stay in FSX  Undecided 
 

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