Simviation Forum - spitfires

Oct 17^th, 2012 at 12:40pm

yancovitch Offline
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Spitfire fighter planes to be dug up in Myanmar

http://news.yahoo.com/spitfire-fighter-planes-dug-myanmar-095412867.html

all i can say is WOW!!!

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Reply #1 - Oct 17^th, 2012 at 12:52pm

Fozzer Offline
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Ozzy will be delighted!.... Smiley

...!

He might even buy one!... Shocked

...!

Paul...

...!

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Reply #2 - Oct 17^th, 2012 at 1:39pm

expat Offline
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It has been reported that an excavation contract has now been signed. I hope the National geographic or Discovery are at hand to document the whole thing.

Matt

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Reply #3 - Oct 17^th, 2012 at 2:25pm

ozzy72 Offline
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The paperwork is done. I'll wait for them to appear on eBay Wink

There are two types of aeroplane, Spitfires and everything else that wishes it was a Spitfire!

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Reply #4 - Oct 17^th, 2012 at 3:53pm

C Offline
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ozzy72 wrote on Oct 17^th, 2012 at 2:25pm:

The paperwork is done. I'll wait for them to appear on eBay Wink

The man behind the excavation money will be selling them for a princely sum at Bonham's, not ebay!

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Reply #5 - Oct 18^th, 2012 at 10:51am

expat Offline
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C wrote on Oct 17^th, 2012 at 3:53pm:

ozzy72 wrote on Oct 17^th, 2012 at 2:25pm:

The paperwork is done. I'll wait for them to appear on eBay Wink

The man behind the excavation money will be selling them for a princely sum at Bonham's, not ebay!

Bonham's, that just ebay with a posh accent, a bow-tie and some Champers if the price goes high enough........... Grin

Matt

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Reply #6 - Oct 18^th, 2012 at 12:09pm

ozzy72 Offline
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At over a million a pop for serviceable ones I don't think he'll be struggling for funds for bubbly....

There are two types of aeroplane, Spitfires and everything else that wishes it was a Spitfire!

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Reply #7 - Oct 19^th, 2012 at 3:37pm

jime59 Offline
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With 120 of them ready to flood the market, you might get a deal afterall Wink

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Reply #8 - Oct 19^th, 2012 at 10:32pm

expat Offline
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jime59 wrote on Oct 19^th, 2012 at 3:37pm:

With 120 of them ready to flood the market, you might get a deal afterall Wink

jime

That would be the flyby to end all flybys........... Cool

Matt

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Reply #9 - Oct 20^th, 2012 at 8:12am

ozzy72 Offline
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I think this is what is known as "An Ozzy Ultimate Perve Fantasy" Grin

We're talking a crate of Kleenex here...

There are two types of aeroplane, Spitfires and everything else that wishes it was a Spitfire!

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Reply #10 - Oct 20^th, 2012 at 12:50pm

expat Offline
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ozzy72 wrote on Oct 20^th, 2012 at 8:12am:

I think this is what is known as "An Ozzy Ultimate Perve Fantasy" Grin

We're talking a crate of Kleenex here...

i think you underestimate some what Ozzy, think back to your mob days......industrial rolls of Kimwipe.......... Grin

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Reply #11 - Oct 20^th, 2012 at 2:27pm

ozzy72 Offline
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I was trying to keep things cleanish for the forums Grin

There are two types of aeroplane, Spitfires and everything else that wishes it was a Spitfire!

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Reply #12 - Oct 20^th, 2012 at 4:47pm

wahubna Offline
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ozzy72 wrote on Oct 20^th, 2012 at 2:27pm:

I was trying to keep things cleanish for the forums Grin

good luck with that!

On a serious note, can anyone explain to me how many Spitfires were are talking about here? I have heard <20, ~20, 20+, and now 60+

I have also heard that there are a good many OTHER British warbirds there...Is this true?

No matter what, this is probably the greatest warbird discovery in a very long time.

‎"At that time [1909] the chief engineer was almost always the chief test pilot as well. That had the fortunate result of eliminating poor engineering early in aviation."- Igor Sikorsky

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Reply #13 - Oct 20^th, 2012 at 5:48pm

ozzy72 Offline
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Figures are argued but we're looking at between 60-80 Spitfires alone!

There are two types of aeroplane, Spitfires and everything else that wishes it was a Spitfire!

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Reply #14 - Oct 20^th, 2012 at 7:01pm

wahubna Offline
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ozzy72 wrote on Oct 20^th, 2012 at 5:48pm:

Figures are argued but we're looking at between 60-80 Spitfires alone!

holy crap on a cracker! Shocked

‎"At that time [1909] the chief engineer was almost always the chief test pilot as well. That had the fortunate result of eliminating poor engineering early in aviation."- Igor Sikorsky

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Reply #15 - Oct 20^th, 2012 at 7:50pm

Mictheslik Offline
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wahubna wrote on Oct 20^th, 2012 at 7:01pm:

ozzy72 wrote on Oct 20^th, 2012 at 5:48pm:

Figures are argued but we're looking at between 60-80 Spitfires alone!

holy crap on a cracker! Shocked

Got a feeling they're going to need a lot of work to get them flying though....Of all the places to dig up spitfires in wooden crates, Burma isn't the best in terms of environment.

Really hoping they're in good nick, but they probably won't be

.mic

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Reply #16 - Oct 21^st, 2012 at 4:04am

C Offline
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Mictheslik wrote on Oct 20^th, 2012 at 7:50pm:

wahubna wrote on Oct 20^th, 2012 at 7:01pm:

ozzy72 wrote on Oct 20^th, 2012 at 5:48pm:

Figures are argued but we're looking at between 60-80 Spitfires alone!

holy crap on a cracker! Shocked

Got a feeling they're going to need a lot of work to get them flying though....Of all the places to dig up spitfires in wooden crates, Burma isn't the best in terms of environment.

Really hoping they're in good nick, but they probably won't be

Mic, we all know there are only 3 things needed to restore a Spitfire: an engine block, a dataplate, and a very deep bank account! Grin

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Reply #17 - Oct 21^st, 2012 at 5:21am

expat Offline
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C wrote on Oct 21^st, 2012 at 4:04am:

Mictheslik wrote on Oct 20^th, 2012 at 7:50pm:

wahubna wrote on Oct 20^th, 2012 at 7:01pm:

ozzy72 wrote on Oct 20^th, 2012 at 5:48pm:

Figures are argued but we're looking at between 60-80 Spitfires alone!

holy crap on a cracker! Shocked

Got a feeling they're going to need a lot of work to get them flying though....Of all the places to dig up spitfires in wooden crates, Burma isn't the best in terms of environment.

Really hoping they're in good nick, but they probably won't be

Mic, we all know there are only 3 things needed to restore a Spitfire: an engine block, a dataplate, and a very deep bank account! Grin

That is very true, but experience (not mine Embarrassed

) has shown that properly preserved and crated aircraft that have been buried have survived quite well over time underground. Only time and a crowbar will tell...........

Matt

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Reply #18 - Oct 21^st, 2012 at 7:22am

ozzy72 Offline
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If the crates were well made and waterproofed properly there is no reason for them not to be okay, however I strongly suspect we'll be looking at a lot of project planes.
The truth is they have a monsoon season over there and wood rots. You've also got things that live underground and would eat the wood.
There's a LOT against out of the box fly away kites. Time will tell but being objective this'll be a "whose got a big enough bank account to restore them".

There are two types of aeroplane, Spitfires and everything else that wishes it was a Spitfire!

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Reply #19 - Oct 21^st, 2012 at 11:15am

wahubna Offline
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ozzy72 wrote on Oct 21^st, 2012 at 7:22am:

If the crates were well made and waterproofed properly there is no reason for them not to be okay, however I strongly suspect we'll be looking at a lot of project planes.
The truth is they have a monsoon season over there and wood rots. You've also got things that live underground and would eat the wood.
There's a LOT against out of the box fly away kites. Time will tell but being objective this'll be a "whose got a big enough bank account to restore them".

Most definitely, however remember we are talking about 60+ Spitfires here. The number of Spitfires available for restoration to flight probably was just increased by 1000%. So at the very least, finding this many means more projects are available. A big problem facing warbirds today is simply finding projects. Sometimes they have to resort to projects that end up being more of a replica than a restoration (case in point the most recent Grumman Duck). So again, finding 60+ is a HUGE boost to the warbird community.

‎"At that time [1909] the chief engineer was almost always the chief test pilot as well. That had the fortunate result of eliminating poor engineering early in aviation."- Igor Sikorsky

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Reply #20 - Oct 21^st, 2012 at 1:55pm

ozzy72 Offline
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No argument mate, it'll hopefully double the number of flying Spits and bring 'em to a new generation of people who previously hadn't seen a proper warbird.

There are two types of aeroplane, Spitfires and everything else that wishes it was a Spitfire!

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Reply #21 - Oct 21^st, 2012 at 2:42pm

expat Offline
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ozzy72 wrote on Oct 21^st, 2012 at 1:55pm:

No argument mate, it'll hopefully double the number of flying Spits and bring 'em to a new generation of people who previously hadn't seen a proper warbird.

What is also worth mentioning, these are all zero hours airframes regardless of the condition. Components may have to take a penalty when reconditioned, but at least they are not already starting with hours on the clock. The only problem I see is that 60+ more Spitfires on the circuit could mean a spare part shortage?

Matt

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Reply #22 - Oct 21^st, 2012 at 3:13pm

ozzy72 Offline
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Things like magnetos are already like rocking horse poo. What would be the ideal situation is 50% serviceable and 50% buggered and put up for parts.

There are two types of aeroplane, Spitfires and everything else that wishes it was a Spitfire!

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Reply #23 - Oct 21^st, 2012 at 3:14pm

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ozzy72 wrote on Oct 21^st, 2012 at 3:13pm:

Things like magnetos are already like rocking horse poo. What would be the ideal situation is 50% serviceable and 50% buggered and put up for parts.

Considering there are 60+...Ill take 50%! Wink

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Reply #24 - Oct 21^st, 2012 at 4:33pm

C Offline
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expat wrote on Oct 21^st, 2012 at 2:42pm:

What is also worth mentioning, these are all zero hours airframes regardless of the condition. Components may have to take a penalty when reconditioned, but at least they are not already starting with hours on the clock.

Depending on the condition. Even fairly well protected, a lot of material may still end up in the scrap bin.

Quote:

The only problem I see is that 60+ more Spitfires on the circuit could mean a spare part shortage?

Spares wouldn't be an issue considering most Spitfires that have come out of restoration in the past few years are effectively new builds - and often they don't sell quickly when they go for sale. Hence what would be an issue is where one would expect 60 new Spitfire owners to come from. It'll devalue the airframe (more Spitfires available = more competitions for airshow bookings = less income), and still cost three arms and a leg to insure, service and fly. And they're MkXIVs, which I suspect are a little less desirable to the casual punter and owner.

A little restraint is needed in some expectations on the web. Wink

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Reply #25 - Oct 21^st, 2012 at 5:26pm

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Charlie, I think the majority will actually turn out to be II's and V's.
The XIV wasn't even thought of when these were buried. In fact I think the Griffon engined variants were in testing and not even in service.

There are two types of aeroplane, Spitfires and everything else that wishes it was a Spitfire!

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Reply #26 - Oct 21^st, 2012 at 6:25pm

C Offline
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ozzy72 wrote on Oct 21^st, 2012 at 5:26pm:

Charlie, I think the majority will actually turn out to be II's and V's.
The XIV wasn't even thought of when these were buried. In fact I think the Griffon engined variants were in testing and not even in service.

Er, mid 1945?

Quote:

After 16 years of searching and lobbying, David Cundall, 62, has signed a deal to recover the lost RAF planes, which are believed to have been packed in crates and hidden by British forces on the orders of Earl Mountbatten shortly before the United States bombed the Japanese city of Hiroshima on 6 August 1945.

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Reply #27 - Oct 22^nd, 2012 at 2:20pm

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Another article I read said 1942. Wish they'd make their minds up and journalists learn to type Grin

There are two types of aeroplane, Spitfires and everything else that wishes it was a Spitfire!

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Reply #28 - Oct 22^nd, 2012 at 2:35pm

Hagar Offline
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ozzy72 wrote on Oct 22^nd, 2012 at 2:20pm:

Another article I read said 1942. Wish they'd make their minds up and journalists learn to type Grin

I've told you before - Don't believe anything you read in the newspapers. Wink

The number of buried Spitfires varies depending on which account you believe. This one seems reasonably accurate. http://www.itv.com/news/2012-10-18/rare-spitfires-buried-during-the-war-to-be-du...

Mr Cundall's son said it was 14 on a radio interview last week. I wondered if he got confused with the mark number.

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Reply #29 - Oct 22^nd, 2012 at 6:30pm

C Offline
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The initial report earlier in the year said they expected to find Mk XIVs, but hoped they may also stumble across some Mk VIIIs. Both were well used in SEAC, so it seems very plausible.

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Reply #30 - Oct 22^nd, 2012 at 8:58pm

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I would say that they defiantly would not have been there since 1942.

All the fighters they had then in Burma were some old BoB Hurricane Mk. II's, The AVG for a while & a few Buffalo’s. (Info from General Slim’s great book)

1945 is far more plausible.

« Last Edit: Oct 23^rd, 2012 at 1:49am by andy190 »

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Reply #31 - Oct 23^rd, 2012 at 4:00am

Hagar Offline
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andy190 wrote on Oct 22^nd, 2012 at 8:58pm:

I would say that they defiantly would not have been there since 1942.

All the fighters they had then in Burma were some old BoB Hurricane Mk. II's, The AVG for a while & a few Buffalo’s. (Info from General Slim’s great book)

1945 is far more plausible.

All reports I've seen say 1945, at the end of WWII in Asia. I don't think that is in question. What is uncertain is how many there are.

If this article is correct they were brand new aircraft, crated in Britain & never re-assembled. Wartime pre-packaging was designed to withstand years of storage in the worst conditions, even under sea water. In that case they could be in excellent condition.

PS. It's definitely. Sorry, I couldn't resist. Tongue

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