Two RAF aircraft have crashed into Scotland's Moray Firth, the Ministry of Defence has confirmed.

A spokesperson for the MoD said: "The RAF are aware of an incident involving two Tornado GR4 from RAF Lossiemouth in the Moray Firth area."

From what ive read in a book called  Tornado - 'Life on a front line squadron' by those two who got shot down in the gulf - John Peters and John Nichol? Flying over water at low level, if indeed that what they were doing (news reports suggest this is where they practice 'bombing') is extremely hazardous when below 250FT as the water and the horizon become one at over 400 knots in certain conditions (white-out i guess), and one slight slip and your in. Your wingman, focusing on what 'your' aircraft is doing, generally 'follows' you in - hes focused on your anti-collison lites or some such other feature of the leader.

Although generally they have some seperation when running into a target, in a 2 ship or 4 ship formation, it maybe was a mid-air collision. I think 2 Tornadoes from Lossiemouth where here at RAF Waddington performing a role demo just two days ago.....

Although getting on in years, i cant quite see why 2 Tornadoes would suffer at exactly the same time with whatever malfunction. Surely as they depleted the Tornado squadrons, those with most life left in the airframes would still be in service as of now?

The aircraft are F3's so unlikely to be trucking around at 250 feet, saying that, never say never......
It is reported that they collided in mid air. As for age, well then, we should remove every combat aircraft world wide except for the Typhoon and  F35 (and even these aircraft will be 20 years old soon on paper) if that concerns any of you. Fact is, at any one time, most Air Force aircraft are in reality no more than around 5 years old. The servicing schedule is such that at major check, they are taken apart to the last nut and bolt. Any component or bit of structure that is not up to the require standard is replaced. Add to that mid life upgrades and add hock Mods, the aircraft are in reality fit for another 20 years or more. Sorry, but it is only ignorance of the servicing schedules exasperated by the press that even bring the age of an aircraft to the fore. One whole it is only advances in technology that require aircraft to be slotted into a role that does not suit it or that it is now being out flown by something new that leads to it being replaced. Age of the aircraft really play a role in this, except when governments need to sell it to the public via the press, then we get the age argument played to full

Matt

Hagar wrote on Jul 4^th, 2012 at 2:39am:


Daily Mail reporting for you.......

And..

Yes, speed typing and fat fingers.......

Matt

Quote:


Not really; over the past decade it probably works out at one (or less) per year, including the one shot down by a Patriot battery in Kuwait. At least three have been slow speed ground ejection too.

EVVFCX wrote on Jul 4^th, 2012 at 12:33pm:


Probably because the average public viewer does not know any difference. The role demo bears no real connection to reality and is used as a recruitment video, all be a live video. When I joined up many many moons ago, I sat through a few videos at the recruiting office. No one got shouted at in a single one and everyone was addressed by their respective ranks. Reality is all together a different thing when you actually sign on.........

Matt

Recruitment so selective these days that you have to be fairly talented for any aircrew role. That said, it's a reflection of how much safer aviation is these days that one of those lost was only the second person I've known who's been lost in an aircraft crash (both on 3rd July, a strange coincidence). Talk to older aircrew, and one, two, three or more per year was once the norm amongst people they knee.

Hopefully Flt Lt Sanders and Sqn Ldr Bailey will be recovered soon.