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I've just had my first flying lesson and it was all a bit dull.... (Read 1209 times)
Nov 18th, 2011 at 10:11am
Dave71k   Ex Member

 
And strangely I found the whole experience a bit dull.   

We took off nice and easy in a Grob G115 and at about 1,500ft I took control. There was low cloud so we kept at around 1,500ft and headed out to the coast.

Once we got near to the coast the cloud cleared up so I was instructed to climb to around 3,000ft, once there we did some turns and general flight control practice which was all very simple. Pull the sick back you go up push forward you go down etc.

After that we noticed the tide was very far out and had exposed a ship wreck or two, so the instructor took control and we dropped down to 300ft over the beach (making sure there were no people around) after flying around at 300 ft. for a few minutes the instructor decided to show me a steep climb so we gathered some speed and pointed the nose up to about 20 degrees and climbed back up to 3,000ft. Once there I feel the instructor sensed I was getting bored with the flying around straight and level thing so asked me if I wanted to try some steep turns, of course I said yes, he took control and we did a few steep turns at 60degrees of bank and pulled around 2Gs which was fun but not really as fun as I had hoped....

Then he asked me if I wanted to try a stall, of course I said and we slowed down until the aircraft entered a clean stall the controls buffeted and the stall warning was buzzing away but even so everything was very uneventful that's probably an indication of a good aircraft though!

The aircraft a Grob G115 seemed very happy to just sit in the stall at about 5degree nose up and descend at a constant rate. The instructor exclaimed at the huge rate of decent we had, which was whopping 1100ft/min....Which to me seem very underwhelming it's hardly a 3000ft/min plunge. He applied throttle and we pulled out of the stall very easily. We climbed back to 3,000ft and I took control and flew us back towards the airfield. At this point we decided to get above the clouds which turned out to be thicker than he thought and resulted in us flying blind for a good 5mins or so, luckily we were under radar control at the time so we were ok.

We proceeded back to the aerodrome, once on final he took control and landed the aircraft; I then taxied the plane back to the parking bay. 

I accompanied the instructor back to the flight school office and I expected him to go in to sales man mode and try to convince me to pay their membership fee and sign up for lessons however he didn't he just said. Right see you.
This very much left me cold I expected so much more enthusiasm from the instructor towards me learning to fly but it just wasn't there, maybe he sensed I wasn't really getting a thrill out of it.

I was totally underwhelmed by everything, I wasn't buzzing or excited about what had just happened in fact it was less exciting than a flight on a commercial jet.

I understand that be probably didn't want to scare me to death on my first flight but I found the whole experience dull and cold. I am quite the thrill seeker and thought flying would be the perfect hobby but now I'm very disheartened and debating whether to take my flying any further.

After all at £170 ($268) a lesson it's a huge amount of money to spend for something that doesn't even get a rise out of me.

Don't get me wrong take off was fun and landing was alright but once up there it seemed almost too simple.


So now I'm looking for advice I guess, what could have gone wrong, why has the passion I have had all my life to fly suddenly left me?

Maybe the aircraft was to blame, the Grob G115 is a low wing aircraft so once up there you can't really see much below you because the wings are in the way, the only view is out the front window. Maybe in a Cessna I would have been happier.

Maybe it was the instructor, he was a nice enough guy though and he was a similar age to me if not younger so it's not like we didn't get on. Although he did seem to be considerably more excited about the whole experience than I did.

Maybe it's because I've spent so long on FSX flying cross country and beyond that I now find the basic stuff boring.
I love navigation and I love intercepting and tracking VORs and using Approach plates and procedures but these are things I was told are not involved in the PPL and I would only really experience if I progressed to Instrument ratings at huge cost.

So I don't know what to do my lifelong dream of flying has sort of crashed.  Does anyone have any advice? Should I try a different school or aerodrome?

I'm considering trying an open cockpit microlight I guess that could give me the thrill I'm after.

Thanks for reading.
 
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Reply #1 - Nov 18th, 2011 at 10:46am

machineman9   Offline
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Is that from Barton?

I always enjoyed the view from the Tutor, but when I last flew it I spent as much time inverted as I did in level flight  Grin (Air Training Corps is a superb way to get some mock flying hours down!)



I guess they needed to try and keep it to a lesson format - If it had been about cruising around the skies having fun, then some people might've had said 'I spent £170 and learnt nothing'.

The tutor is a very easy aircraft, it always feels well controlled. That is one of the reasons why it is used as a training aircraft. It is very forgiving, but it does have a huge excitement factor when you push it far enough. Perhaps the instructor wasn't qualified (or the airframe not suitable as part of their policy) for you to do the full aerobatics in it that it should be capable of.
 

...
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Reply #2 - Nov 18th, 2011 at 11:29am

Flying Trucker   Offline
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Goodly morning Dave… Smiley

I had to look up to see what type you took your flight on and it does look like a fun machine to aviate around the puffy wuffies in…

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grob_G_115

This being your first flying lesson I am not sure why the instructor did not let you do everything but the radio work from stage one.
You could have followed him through on the takeoff and landing.

Beach buzzing could have followed several lessons later, but I would have thought you would have spent some time learning the aircraft and practicing with the controls prior to landing.

Your flight sounds more like a demonstration flight/introductory flight rather than a first flying lesson.

If this was indeed your first flying lesson then a Pilot Log Book should have been filled out along with a Flight Debriefing and what to expect on your second lesson along with times and dates of when you would make your second flight.

If this was a demonstration flight/introductory flight then I am not sure why you would pay the same as what you would for a flying lesson.

Perhaps the instructor misunderstood that this was to be your first flying lesson and not a demonstration flight/introductory flight.

I certainly would not change schools or aerodromes at the present time but I would certainly make an appointment to sit down and chat with the instructor and operations manager to clear up some of the issues you have.  Remember you are the customer and it is your money that is being spent.

If your lifelong dream of flying has crashed then look for something else, perhaps cooking or painting but all kidding aside, do not give up.  Go back and talk this out with them.

Not sure what you are planning on doing as far as obtaining a license but it would seem you are heading towards an Instrument Rating and perhaps a Commercial Rating.

Microsoft FSX Flight Simulator and FS2004 are good tools but keep in mind they are games, not real flight simulators which require motion amongst other things.

Your best flying experience will be in a real aircraft with a compatible flying instructor.

Good luck on whatever you decide... Wink
 


 

Cheers...Happy Landings...Doug
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Reply #3 - Nov 18th, 2011 at 12:13pm
Dave71k   Ex Member

 
I think it was very much treated as an introductory flight even though I made it clear when I arrived I wanted to start my PPL as soon as I could.

I think one issue I have is most of the pilots I met there are all career pilots, where as I see it more as a hobby. I'm also looking for a more raw experience of flying, with that said I'm now after a go in a Microlight to see if that gives me what I'm after. It also seems a lot cheaper and more accessible to.

I'm definitely not giving up totally yet I'll see how this goes and then consider my options.  Smiley

Thanks for the advice guys!
 
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Reply #4 - Nov 18th, 2011 at 12:27pm

FSX_Dude   Offline
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That sounds fun to me not dull the lowest I was 1800 ft and I have never done a stall before.
 

I don't need a Sign.....wait......Damn!
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Reply #5 - Nov 18th, 2011 at 5:10pm

C   Offline
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Quote:
I think it was very much treated as an introductory flight even though I made it clear when I arrived I wanted to start my PPL as soon as I could.


You might be surprised to learn that trip one in the RAF's flying syllabus is just an introduction, with nothing "taught" as such. Smiley From the point of the instructor he has to balance introducing you to flying and making the experience as enjoyable as possible, which will of course will vary from person to person. You're also limited by the choice of aircraft IIRC, unless you have access to the G115D or E (115As at Barton?) - but again, unless you've done it before, they will be reluctant to do anything that for all they know, may put you off the idea altogether. Wink

Quote:
The instructor exclaimed at the huge rate of decent we had, which was whopping 1100ft/min....Which to me seem very underwhelming it's hardly a 3000ft/min plunge


If a pilot manages to stall in the circuit, or worse, on final approach & flare (which lots of student and inexperienced pilots have in the past), 1100ft/min is very capable of killing them. Smiley



Flying is fun. Learning to fly requires a lot of time and money, and of course patience - it's not all fun flying, but to master the basics takes a fair bit of fairly mundane flying. It's just the way it is! Smiley

 
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Reply #6 - Nov 18th, 2011 at 6:18pm

Jayhawk Jake   Offline
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I flew a Cessna 172 about 5 years ago.  It was part of a field trip for class.  I flew takeoff to landing, in windy weather.  I'm not going to lie, that scared the crap out of me.  I had a blast. 

Recently, I went for a ride in a 172.  While still enjoyable, I got no stick time, and the flight was completely uneventful.  Smooth air, perfect day (Wichita gets a lot of those), and just completely not exciting.  However, what always gets me, and what makes me love flying, is I sat back and took in the reality of it all.  Here I was, in this tiny little plane, flying 3500 over everything.  Away from traffic, away from people.  Just me, the instructor, and the plane tottering away peacefully in the air.  I could see for miles, I could see my apartment, my office (happens to be at the airport), football stadiums, cars, everything.

Flying to me is magical, even though I undertand how it all works.  It's not necessarily exciting, but I'm not looking for excitement.  When I fly (and when I get my pilots license within the next few years), I do it for the sheer amazement at what is taking place.  For the beauty, for the romance.

If you are flying for the thrill, go join the air force.  I would hope that 99% of your hours in the air are far from exciting because when it's dull it means it's safe.  I say go for another lesson, but lower your expectations.  Take sometime to think about what you are doing.  You are flying, something we've only been capable of doing for the last 100 years.
 

...
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*The opinions expressed above are my own and are in no way representative of fact or opinion of any other person, corporation, or company.*
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Reply #7 - Nov 18th, 2011 at 8:20pm

Mictheslik   Offline
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Superb post Jake. Every time I fly I can't help but think how amazing it is to even be there.....and always have a massive grin on my face when leaving the flying school, even if I have just made a mess of 7 circuits Tongue

.mic
 

[center]...
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Reply #8 - Nov 18th, 2011 at 9:46pm
Dave71k   Ex Member

 
@Jayhawk Jake - My dream was to be in the air force since I was very very young around 4 or 5.
I dreamed of being a fast jet pilot however I do not meet the minimum medical requirements for the air force as I have asthma, luckily it is very mild, mild enough in fact that I would pass a class one medical required for an ATPL. However non of the armed services in the U.K will accept people with asthma of any degree.

I guess there lies my problem, my dream was to be doing 200knots 200ft off the deck instead I'm doing 80knots at over 1,000ft.

Another thing was any landmarks I would recognize; my house, place of work etc are well within the controlled airspace around Manchester Airport so flying anywhere near it wasn't an option. And as much as I like a thrill, flying a litter two seater in the same airspace as 737s, 757s and the odd a380 is a bit too scary.

I think I may have had the wrong idea about flying I wanted to fly for the excitement of flying, the thrill of going fast and being up high.

With my other hobbies being Rock climbing, Skiing and Mountain Biking I guess I'm somewhat of a thrill seeker, I thought flying would be the next step up for me but I think I got the wrong end of the stick. I should probably take up jumping out of aircraft rather than flying them.

I do love the idea of being a bush pilot though but that again is because there is the added danger that comes along with it or rather less the danger and more the uncertainty. I know obviously to get to be a bush pilot you have to do all the other stuff first.

The biggest nail in the coffin for me however was the lack of enthusiasm the instructor had to sign me up for more lessons.
I asked him what would be the next step and where do I go from here? He didn't really answer the question he just said well you've basically covered lesson 3 and 4 and I'd expect you to go solo after around 10 hours. And that was that. He logged the flight down and got on with his next customer.

If he had said 'o.k so when can we book your next lesson etc' I'm pretty sure I would have booked one more at least.  Undecided 

I'm going to have a go in a Microlight some time this week and see how that goes. Flying Microlights seems like much more of a sport than flying light aircraft so I may enjoy it more.  It's also considerably more accessible cost wise and with modern flex wings cruising at 80knots or so there's not really much of a performance difference between a flex wing and a Cessna 150. The biggest difference being when I'm done I can take my microlight home and put it in the garage and avoid hanger fees. After all a lot of pilots gain their PPL and then never fly again.
 
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Reply #9 - Nov 19th, 2011 at 5:18am

C   Offline
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Reading your posts, before you decide it's not for you, it may be worth trying somewhere further afield - a smaller school perhaps. There's nothing to stop you visiting for a chat, and the warmer the welcome, particularly if you can chat to the FIs, the better.

I initially had flying lessons at a civvy school under the old RAF flying scholarship scheme. Even then you could see the different types of instructor - the hrs builders, and then the part time ones. I generally preferred the latter, as they generally we doing it for enjoyment and the satisfaction of instruction, not as a means to an end career wise.

And remember, aviation, even in its simplest form with a PPL, can be exciting (aerobatics etc) - there's just the PPL hoop to jump through first. The main problem of course, compared to other hobbies, is cost, but a lot of people would agree it's worth it.
 
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Reply #10 - Nov 19th, 2011 at 6:07am

Fozzer   Offline
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I clocked up a few hours piloting an Auster Aiglet Army Trainer for the British Army in the mid 1950's.
But after leaving the Army, (I didn't like the Army, either!), took no further interest in Aircraft until the various "Flight Simulators" for the Computer appeared on the shelves in the mid 1990's.
Tried many of them out, and have used them daily since 1995, starting with Flight Unlimited II/III, Pro Pilot '99, Fly!' etc, etc, and then the MS Series, FS '98, 2000, 2002, 2004, and FSX.

I enjoy them immensely, in the same way that I enjoy cooking, but have no wish to become a licensed Pilot, or a Chef, with all the training, time, and expense involved!

I often wonder how many Sim Train enthusiasts actually become real Train Drivers...not many I suspect!... Wink...!

I enjoy my (very) occasional, one hour Trial Flights in the local Clubs Cessna 150/152, just for the real experience, but then I get back home to "My World... Wink...", in my FS 2004 Flight Simulator, and have fun at almost zero expense...and absolutely no danger of dying!... Grin...!
I think its all to easy to play a simple "computer game", and then think its going to be the real life for you in the future!
I think for most of us, our lives get mapped out with little or no control from ourselves, Marriage, Family, Occupation, (to pay the bills, etc), Money/Money....and so it goes on, consuming all our time and energy...
"Real Flying" is something that very few folks have the time for, and can afford, ....at best it will be the occasional Trial Flight for your birthday present, (paid for by someone else!)...

...Trust me!... Wink...!

Paul...aka..Captain Sensible... Wink... Wink...!
 

Dell Dimension 5000 BTX Tower. Win7 Home Edition, 32 Bit. Intel Pentium 4, dual 2.8 GHz. 2.5GB RAM, nVidia GF 9500GT 1GB. SATA 500GB + 80GB. Philips 17" LCD Monitor. Micronet ADSL Modem only. Saitek Cyborg Evo Force. FS 2004 + FSX. Briggs and Stratton Petrol Lawn Mower...Motor Bikes. Gas Cooker... and lots of musical instruments!.... ...!
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Reply #11 - Nov 19th, 2011 at 10:58am
Dave71k   Ex Member

 
@C I think you definitely have a very good point. I imagine I would enjoy flying much much more if I were flying around scenery I love (hence wanting to be a bush pilot), Mid wales and the Lakes etc where as the area around the north west is quite dull it's flat with lots of houses. I hoped my flight would head east over the moors but there was thick cloud in land so we headed for the coast.
I also think I would enjoy the whole thing a lot more with a instructor who did do it for fun as opposed to a job. The instructor I had said he wanted to do this for a while before committing to an airline so he was definitely a career pilot.

And Fozzer I very much agree with you, apart from the lucky few who have ended up with a job that pays on the exciting side of £50k a year, flying is very expensive hobby to take up and doesn't ever get cheaper as you advance through it.  Ironically my hobby used to be cooking and I know work as a Chef, although I trained as a Building Surveyor.  I've never quite understood train simulators..Go,Stop,Speed up, Slow Down?  I'm sure it's more complex than that!

I've decided to have ago flying a flex wing microlight, my lesson is booked for next week and it's definitely a lesson this time!
It's considerably cheaper than learning to fly light aircraft around £70 pounds less per lesson and there's no joining or membership fee to pay either unlike the flying school who wanted £50 to join and then £80 a year membership fee.

There's also a much more realistic chance that I will be able to own my own aircraft and keep it in my garage.

Hopefully I will end up with a NPPL which I could always upgrade to PPL if I wanted to in the future. I will see how this goes and if it gives me the excitement I'm after, after all a flex wing microlight is basically a flying motor bike and you don't get much more fun than that! Without a F-18 or a women involved at least.
 
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Reply #12 - Nov 19th, 2011 at 1:08pm

pegger   Offline
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Jake had probably the best answer. I think other than to pursue a career, the only other ereason to learn to fly is simply to learn to fly. The romance, the challenge, the personal acheivments...what ever the reason, thats what you need to analyze.

I for one would be learning simply to say that in my very short time on this rock, I learned to manuever an object heavier than air...in the air.

I watch microlights flying around close to my home, and I maust say they look even more boring than a light GA aircraft. And they are more succeptable to being grounded for bad weather. So if you consider that they are generally slower, not as capable of taking passangers or payload, restricted to vfr only, and noisy andf windy, i really don't see how you are going to find them any more interesting.

There's an old saying that you've probably heard...."There are old pilots, and there are bold pilots, but there are no old bold pilots".

Aviation is not the ideal venue for thrill seekers.
 
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Reply #13 - Nov 19th, 2011 at 1:45pm

C   Offline
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The other purely recreational option, allied to Paul's points earlier, is to use the money you could use on flying lessons on other flying, such as paying slightly more for occasional (more interesting) trips in aircraft that are available all over the place. For example, an hr in something like a Tiger Moth, or aeros in a Cap 10 or Extra 200 - all which can be done at very reasonable prices if you shop around and avoid "experience days" and pleasure flying companies, as these generally more than double the price (as an example, if you search google, the going rate for a 15-20 minute Tiger Moth "experience" is around £100-150. Cambridge Flying Group on the other hand, as an example, offer dual training for £180/hr!).

Potentially more fun, non cost of hassle of a license, and you can vary it to suit what you fancy! Smiley
 
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Reply #14 - Nov 19th, 2011 at 11:46pm

SaultFresh   Offline
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In my opinion, a PPL can really open the door for more adventure and more experiences. I mean, once you do aerobatics in an airplane... rollercoasters just don't seem to have the same effect. And when you fly on a regular basis, standing at the top of tall buildings kind of loses its perspective a little, since you don't really feel that high off the ground anymore. However, like I said, a PPL can create more adventure and excitement. For instance, you can travel from Point A to Point B... and beyond. You can see things from the air that you've never seen before. With a PPL, you can gradually work your way into a Night Rating, or an IFR rating, a Multi-Rating, or a Group 1 IFR rating. Allowing you to travel further, faster, higher, and with less restrictions. Even with the proper training, you'd be able to conduct aerobatics, and that is where some of the real excitement comes into play. As an instructor, I know that we can't go all out on the first flight, haha. Some students are nervous, some students may experience motion sickness, and if we go all out on the first go, they may make a mess of things, haha. My first flight consisted of a sight seeing trip around the area. We flew over my house (which at the time was a college residence... not too hard to miss), and various locations to practice stuff. I learned how to fly in Canada (some of the crappiest weather you can fly) in an aerobatic trainer (Zlin 242L, tough and rugged, yet it required some finesse on the controls), and I can honestly say I would never have traded that experience for Arizona like weather or the incredible stability of a 172. Do a couple more flights and see how it goes, I think the Grob is an aerobatic airplane, so that's something that I would suggest for added excitement and challenge, and if the stalls and steep turns don't excite you, ask to spice it up with some Regular and Accelerated Spins.
Also, microlights and ultralights may provide a certain excitement and rush, especially since many are open cockpit, but as someone said, they are slower, less maneuverable, have stricter tolerances, and in my opinion, slightly more dangerous than flying a regular aircraft, but hey, that's just my opinion.
 
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