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Grammar Police (Read 1365 times)
Oct 28th, 2011 at 4:54am

expat   Offline
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Well, this is for Doug and Paul. How many of these did you know about or even learn in school. I have seen a couple, but no idea where or when to use them Huh

Matt
 

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Reply #1 - Oct 28th, 2011 at 5:36am

Fozzer   Offline
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Hello Matt... Smiley...

Excellent find.
The ones I am familiar with, from my handwriting/calligraphy past:
Because.
Caret.
Pilcrow.

Exclamation Comma, and Question Comma, make a lot of sense when used in a sentence!

I avoid Asterism and Interrobang, because the description here uses the word; "Awesome" in the text... Wink... Grin...!

Wonderful, when writing with good, old-fashioned, pen and ink, on paper.

Happy days!

Paul... Smiley...!

 

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Reply #2 - Oct 28th, 2011 at 6:13am

Hagar   Offline
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Interesting. Like you, I've seen some of them used in books but until now I didn't know their names or what they mean. No, we were never taught them at school.

I found a complete list of punctuation marks here ---> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punctuation
 

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Reply #3 - Oct 28th, 2011 at 8:17am

expat   Offline
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Hagar wrote on Oct 28th, 2011 at 6:13am:
Interesting. Like you, I've seen some of them used in books but until now I didn't know their names or what they mean. No, we were never taught them at school.

I found a complete list of punctuation marks here ---> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punctuation



Good find Doug. It is a shame 90% are not on a keyboard, well unless you left shift right CTRL, pinky finger the ALT GR, index the table and then type in a four figure code  Grin Grin
I would like a question mark comma and exclamation mark comma. I think I could use that quite a bit ,! or not Grin

Matt
 

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Reply #4 - Oct 28th, 2011 at 8:22am

Flying Trucker   Offline
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Goodly morning all... Smiley

Like you three I also have seen some of these punctuation marks but have never used them.

Shorthand and Latin along with the use of the Slide Rule was compulsory here in Canada in the five year high school course but I do not think they have a five year high school course now.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shorthand

I think a lot of us military aviators used a form of Shorthand to fill in the Remarks Section in our Log Books.

As for Latin...never used it...

The Slide Rule...now that was useful...

I do not think most students today know what a Slide Rule is or are they able to sit down and write not type a paragraph after finishing school.

I agree with you there Matt, the keyboards could be changed.

I would also like to see something that would show immediately when someone is typing something out and misspell a word, that it shows up immediately for correction prior to the typist typing on.

A Grammar Usage would also be nice.

I also think the above two would be very educational for our students rather than just doing a Spell Check at the end of the typed work.

However it is nice to see that is changing here with Reading, Writing, Arithmetic and compulsory Physical Education reinstalled in the schools at all levels.

Now if I might continue with an off topic opinion.

Many of us feel that Morse Code should still be compulsory learning for aviators who hold all classes of pilot's licences, not just the military.
That includes the Recreational Licence and Ultralights also.
 

Cheers...Happy Landings...Doug
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Reply #5 - Oct 28th, 2011 at 9:24am

patchz   Offline
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I was familiar with the Caret, Section Sign, Pilcrow, and Snark, the latter of which is why I use Roll Eyes so often.

But I love the Because Sign, Exclamation and Question Commas. Now I just need to find them on my Character Map.

Alas, †‡/¶§«» was all I could find on the Character Map.  Sad
 

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Reply #6 - Oct 28th, 2011 at 10:56am

machineman9   Offline
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I'm familiar with the caret (usually used in mathematics to denote indices). Similarly, the 'because' sign (and its upturned rival, 'more over') are used in physics to short-hand explain a theory or equation.

The section sign should be familiar to anyone who plays The Sims, as the Simoleon is their national currency, using that symbol.

I've also given a few interrobangs in my time, usually not in the same sentence as an ampersand though.
 

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Reply #7 - Oct 28th, 2011 at 4:38pm

Hagar   Offline
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Flying Trucker wrote on Oct 28th, 2011 at 8:22am:
I would also like to see something that would show immediately when someone is typing something out and misspell a word, that it shows up immediately for correction prior to the typist typing on.

The Firefox browser has a spell checker which does exactly that. (I installed the British English dictionary for it.) Words not in the dictionary are underlined in red. Right-click on an underlined word for a list of suggestions for the correct spelling. My spelling has always been pretty good but I find it very useful as my typing is hopeless. Roll Eyes

Quote:
A Grammar Usage would also be nice.

Word processing software like Microsoft Office includes a grammar check feature. It corrects things I don't want corrected so I always disable it.

These things are all very well but I don't like machines trying to interpret what I mean. In the end there's no substitute for learning to do it properly yourself. Unfortunately in the computer age that is rapidly becoming a lost art.
 

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Reply #8 - Oct 28th, 2011 at 5:36pm

Steve M   Offline
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For Doug (Flying Trucker), or anyone interested.


http://tinyspell.numerit.com/ 


It can be turned on and off easily. Your word appears in red above the word your typing. If your looking at your keyboard while typing, a sound  notifies you, and if you want to ignore it just type another letter or space bar and it goes away. As you can tell, I use it.  Cool
(It's free)
 

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Reply #9 - Oct 28th, 2011 at 5:53pm

Hagar   Offline
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Spell checkers can be useful but they obviously cannot detect correctly spelled words used in the wrong context. This is becoming very common. For example;

its & it's
their, there & they're
to & too
your & you're
 

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Reply #10 - Oct 28th, 2011 at 7:19pm

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Thanks Doug and Steve...much appreciated... Smiley
 

Cheers...Happy Landings...Doug
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Reply #11 - Oct 28th, 2011 at 8:01pm

Steve M   Offline
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Hagar wrote on Oct 28th, 2011 at 5:53pm:
Spell checkers can be useful but they obviously cannot detect correctly spelled words used in the wrong context. This is becoming very common. For example;

its & it's
their, there & they're
to & too
your & you're




I agree, not much software available now, can understand context.   
 

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Reply #12 - Oct 28th, 2011 at 8:06pm

Webb   Offline
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I use caret a lot.  In CSS programming it's a shortcut for "begins with".

And section.  "To indicate sections in a text, mostly by lawyers, who are too good for regular punctuation marks." We're pretentious.
 

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Reply #13 - Oct 28th, 2011 at 8:15pm

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Hello!

I guess I was lucky for paying attention during English class!  Grin

In this day and age, as more and more people seem to type like they text no wonder things like proper sentence structure, punctuation and proper word usage is slowly becoming a lost art! What gets me are people who don't seem to care that they really don't write and spell very well!

Personally... if someone like that worked for me, and they handed me a letter needing my review and it was written terribly, I would hand it back to them chock full of corrections. In a professional situation like that there's no excuse for something like that.

Just my 2¢ worth...

Alan  Smiley
 

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Reply #14 - Oct 28th, 2011 at 8:37pm

H   Offline
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The most common use of these, during my younger days of short story writing, was the carat mark; even with a typewriter (do a search, if you wish) available, I usually hand wrote a draft; erasing and inserting being a problem, especially if using pen, I'd correct omissions and insert above with a carat mark below.


Hagar wrote on Oct 28th, 2011 at 5:53pm:
Spell checkers can be useful but they obviously cannot detect correctly spelled words used in the wrong context. This is becoming very common. For example;

its & it's*
their, there* & they're
to & too
your* & you're*
Conversely (you may have been referring to this with your other remark), they will also target names spelled different than a similar word or references to words of a foreign language.
*I believe those of the U.S. closer to the southern hills differentiate these with tis, thar, yer/yur and yor, respectively...
Cheesy


Cool
 
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Reply #15 - Oct 28th, 2011 at 9:17pm

Webb   Offline
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H wrote on Oct 28th, 2011 at 8:37pm:
*I believe those of the U.S. closer to the southern hills differentiate these with tis, thar, yer/yur and yor, respectively... Cheesy

That is not as far off the mark as you think.

Standard English does not differentiate between "you" (singular) and "you" (plural).

It it correct to say:

"Would you (John) like to visit me on Saturday?" and

"Would you (John and your family) like to visit me on Saturday?"

In the Southern United States you would say:

"Would you (singular) like to come over for the game on Saturday?" or

"Would y'all (plural, bring the family, we're cooking a pig) like to come over for the game on Saturday?".

In the Northeast United States you would say:

"You (singular) want to come over for the game on Saturday?" or

"Youse (plural) coming over for the game on Saturday?  Bring some beer and your sister 'cuz she's hot and I'd like to do her."

Y'all

Youse

 

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Reply #16 - Oct 28th, 2011 at 9:56pm

alrot   Offline
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Cheesy Hey Y'all !

I know that even before I lived in USA because that is and English class You(singular) and you (plural) ,I have seen many times people say how are you doing  people? < like to specify  or this goes with you two

In spanish we add and S to plural (Persona-personas) (casa-casas) mujer-mujeres

Tongue
 

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Reply #17 - Oct 28th, 2011 at 10:13pm

Webb   Offline
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Wouldn't you say:

"¿Tu/Usted como me visitaría el sábado?" or

"¿Vosotros/Ustedes como me visitaría el sábado?" ?
 

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Reply #18 - Oct 29th, 2011 at 5:21am

jetprop   Offline
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here in ireland you would say:
are you (bob) coming to the party?
are ye (bob and john) coming to the party.
 

...
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Reply #19 - Oct 29th, 2011 at 7:24am

Fozzer   Offline
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jetprop wrote on Oct 29th, 2011 at 5:21am:
here in ireland you would say:
are you (bob) coming to the party?
are ye (bob and john) coming to the party.


Here in England we say..

"If "you lot" are coming to the party...then don't forget to bring a bottle!"

Paul...HIC!... Smiley....!
 

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Reply #20 - Oct 29th, 2011 at 3:03pm

H   Offline
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Webb wrote on Oct 28th, 2011 at 9:17pm:
In the Northeast United States you would say:
"Youse (plural) coming over for the game on Saturday?  Bring some beer..."
Don't confuse New York State with New England.  Angry  The only youse I use is use and my upbringing says I shouldn't use you as youse because it's not good to youse people.
Seems long forgotten but there was armed confrontation betwixt New Hampshirite and New Yorker colonials; that's how Vermont came to be.

That aside -- don't confuse the rest of New York State with New York City and its particular suburbs, either.
  Cheesy

jetprop wrote on Oct 29th, 2011 at 5:21am:
here in ireland you would say:
are you (bob) coming to the party?
are ye (bob and john) coming to the party.
Here's me thinking it would be more like:
An bhfuil tú ag teacht leis an pháirtí?
An bhfuil sibh ag teacht leis an bpáirtí
...but, hey, I speak very, very little of any sort of Gaelic and never realized how similar the English and Irish diction.
   Wink Grin


Cool



Cool
 
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Reply #21 - Oct 29th, 2011 at 3:19pm

Fozzer   Offline
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H wrote on Oct 29th, 2011 at 3:03pm:
Webb wrote on Oct 28th, 2011 at 9:17pm:
In the Northeast United States you would say:
"Youse (plural) coming over for the game on Saturday?  Bring some beer..."
Don't confuse New York State with New England.  Angry 
Seems long forgotten but there was armed confrontation betwixt New Hampshirite and New Yorker colonials; that's how Vermont came to be.

That aside -- don't confuse the rest of New York State with New York City and its particular suburbs, either.
  Cheesy

jetprop wrote on Oct 29th, 2011 at 5:21am:
here in ireland you would say:
are you (bob) coming to the party?
are ye (bob and john) coming to the party.
Here's me thinking it would be more like:
An bhfuil tú ag teacht leis an pháirtí?
An bhfuil sibh ag teacht leis an bpáirtí.
...but, hey, I speak very, very little of any sort of Gaelic and never realized how similar the English  and Irish diction.   Wink Grin


Cool



Cool


This is when I have to get my maps out, together with Wikipedia, covering the Eastern/North Eastern United States.
Quite a complex area, compared to the rest of the country!.... Wink...!

Paul.... Smiley...!

I can mostly understand New Yorkers speech, (on the Radio/Tele')... Wink...!

U-Tube contains some examples of different speech patterns.
 

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Reply #22 - Oct 29th, 2011 at 3:26pm

jetprop   Offline
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H wrote on Oct 29th, 2011 at 3:03pm:
Webb wrote on Oct 28th, 2011 at 9:17pm:
In the Northeast United States you would say:
"Youse (plural) coming over for the game on Saturday?  Bring some beer..."
Don't confuse New York State with New England.  Angry 
Seems long forgotten but there was armed confrontation betwixt New Hampshirite and New Yorker colonials; that's how Vermont came to be.

That aside -- don't confuse the rest of New York State with New York City and its particular suburbs, either.
  Cheesy

jetprop wrote on Oct 29th, 2011 at 5:21am:
here in ireland you would say:
are you (bob) coming to the party?
are ye (bob and john) coming to the party.
Here's me thinking it would be more like:
An bhfuil tú ag teacht leis an pháirtí?
An bhfuil sibh ag teacht leis an bpáirtí
...but, hey, I speak very, very little of any sort of Gaelic and never realized how similar the English  and Irish diction.
   Wink Grin


Cool



Cool


i am not an irish expert either(the opposite actualy) but i do know that that sentance is perfect.
but i think there is another way of saying it.(again;i am rubbish at irish)
and we mainly speak english here,irish is only speaken all the time in certain areas.

and the fact that i know that it is right is because our teacher teaches us stuff about 5 years ahead.
our neighbour is in 3rd year(?) and he only started learning verbs while we learned it in fifth class.
 

...
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Reply #23 - Oct 29th, 2011 at 3:45pm

Fozzer   Offline
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I am always fascinated with foreign accents/dialects based on the English language, and of course, we only get samples of the North American language from Hollywood films, and U.S. radio broadcasts, which may not accurately represent the local U.S. dialects!

I get my daily dose of California accents from...>>> http://www.kron.com/

Paul... Smiley...!

@H...I need some examples from your neck of the woods... Wink...!
 

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Reply #24 - Oct 29th, 2011 at 3:53pm

H   Offline
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jetprop wrote on Oct 29th, 2011 at 3:26pm:
I am not an irish expert, either (the opposite actually) but I do know that that sentence is perfect.
but I think there is another way of saying it (again, I am rubbish at Irish)
and we mainly speak English here; Irish is only speaken all the time in certain areas.
I was trusting the Translater at http://dictionary.reference.com/ ;  Wink
However, in latter grade school I was forced to take French and remember that tu was a dearly personalized form of vous, the common French equivelent of English you (the Franks were Germanic but their conquered subjects, the more numerous Gauls, were mainly Celtic).



Cool
 
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Reply #25 - Oct 29th, 2011 at 4:10pm

jetprop   Offline
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lol.
why do all topics here end up totaly off-topic.
well,this is simviation. Cheesy Grin Cheesy

and i think irish is actualy a kind of 'base' language.
it is very simular to celtic and most european languages are based of celtic,creek and latin.

and incase anyone wants some basic lessons.
don't go to my teacher. Grin
 

...
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Reply #26 - Oct 29th, 2011 at 4:37pm

H   Offline
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Grin

jetprop wrote on Oct 29th, 2011 at 4:10pm:
I think irish is actualy a kind of 'base' language... ...very simular to Celtic
Irish is Celtic, part of the Goidelic branch: Celtic is an overall group of languages, the other major branch being Brythonic (as the Cymric and, as best we know, the ancient Gauls).


jetprop wrote on Oct 29th, 2011 at 4:10pm:
...most European languages are based of Celtic, Creek and Latin.
Try Celtic, Germanic, Latin and Slavic, amongst others...
Creek is a southeasterly US, Native North American linguistic group; unless you've made a remarkable discovery, they've no known association with the rest of the modern world.
  Wink


Cool
 
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Reply #27 - Oct 30th, 2011 at 1:46am

patchz   Offline
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H wrote on Oct 29th, 2011 at 4:37pm:
Creek is a southeasterly US, Native North American linguistic group; unless you've made a remarkable discovery, they've no known association with the rest of the modern world.

Which reminds me that I would still like to learn to speak Cherokee, since my great, great grandfather was a full blooded Chief. But I doubt I have the intelligence to learn, especially this late in the game.  Sad
 

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Reply #28 - Oct 30th, 2011 at 5:38am

jetprop   Offline
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H wrote on Oct 29th, 2011 at 4:37pm:
Grin

jetprop wrote on Oct 29th, 2011 at 4:10pm:
I think irish is actualy a kind of 'base' language... ...very simular to Celtic
Irish is Celtic, part of the Goidelic branch: Celtic is an overall group of languages, the other major branch being Brythonic (as the Cymric and, as best we know, the ancient Gauls).


jetprop wrote on Oct 29th, 2011 at 4:10pm:
...most European languages are based of Celtic, Creek and Latin.
Try Celtic, Germanic, Latin and Slavic, amongst others...
Creek is a southeasterly US, Native North American linguistic group; unless you've made a remarkable discovery, they've no known association with the rest of the modern world.
  Wink


Cool


ok.
thanks for clearing that up. Smiley

and thats why i said MOST.
 

...
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Reply #29 - Oct 30th, 2011 at 9:21am

alrot   Offline
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Webb wrote on Oct 28th, 2011 at 10:13pm:
Wouldn't you say:

"¿Tu/Usted como me visitaría el sábado?" or

"¿Vosotros/Ustedes como me visitaría el sábado?" ?


Spanish is a little bit complicated  Undecided

For example Ustedes and "Usted" singular and "Tu" and "Ustedes" is the same but "Tu" is more like a closer person you wouldn't never call "Tu" the king of England or a kid calling a grown up person "Tu" that would be "Usted" and "Tu" for sisters ,wife ,girlfriend everyone in simv

Now we don't use Vosotros, Vos we use "Ustedes" Usted which is the same but this is Spain/Argentina spoke

and Both are wrong Webb would be like this

Me visitaria Usted el sabado?

we don't have auxiliary verbs    

example
Does she knows how to drive?

in spanish
  knows she how to drive?......something like that  Tongue Undecided
 

...

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Reply #30 - Oct 30th, 2011 at 12:09pm

jetprop   Offline
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alrot wrote on Oct 30th, 2011 at 9:21am:
Webb wrote on Oct 28th, 2011 at 10:13pm:
Wouldn't you say:

"¿Tu/Usted como me visitaría el sábado?" or

"¿Vosotros/Ustedes como me visitaría el sábado?" ?


Spanish is a little bit complicated  Undecided

For example Ustedes and "Usted" singular and "Tu" and "Ustedes" is the same but "Tu" is more like a closer person you wouldn't never call "Tu" the king of England or a kid calling a grown up person "Tu" that would be "Usted" and "Tu" for sisters ,wife ,girlfriend everyone in simv

Now we don't use Vosotros, Vos we use "Ustedes" Usted which is the same but this is Spain/Argentina spoke

and Both are wrong Webb would be like this

Me visitaria Usted el sabado?

we don't have auxiliary verbs    

example
Does she knows how to drive?

in spanish
  knows she how to drive?......something like that  Tongue Undecided


so its the same as irish?
(optional,i think)/1=does/did
1=verb(know)
2=who(she)
3=what(drive)

an irish question goes like this:(i think)

ar d'ith sé dónál úll?

did(ar)
eat(d'ith)
he dónál(sé dónál)
apple(úll)

so:
did dónál eat the apple?
=
did eat he dónál apple/ar d'ith sé dónál úll?

it could be ith instead of d'ith.
 

...
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Reply #31 - Nov 1st, 2011 at 2:45am

Webb   Offline
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This still uses a singular pronoun - "Does she know how to drive?"

If I were referring to a bunch of bimbos would I say, "Do they know how to drive?"
 

A bad day at golf is better than a good day at work.

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Reply #32 - Nov 1st, 2011 at 2:59am

Webb   Offline
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...
 

A bad day at golf is better than a good day at work.

...

Jim
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Reply #33 - Nov 1st, 2011 at 2:19pm

H   Offline
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Webb wrote on Nov 1st, 2011 at 2:59am:
...

...accumulative bastardization since 1056...



Cool
 
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Reply #34 - Nov 1st, 2011 at 2:35pm

ViperPilot   Offline
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Purson-nellie, ah thank yur gitten aul kerryd awae wif aul dis gramar stuf.

Ef yu ken git yur poynt akross aynt thayt tha innportnt thang?

-- A child... left WAY behind.  Grin

 

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Reply #35 - Nov 1st, 2011 at 3:23pm

H   Offline
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2003: the year NH couldn't
save face...
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ViperPilot wrote on Nov 1st, 2011 at 2:35pm:
-- A child... left WAY behind.
You're saying you're a little behind?
Undecided  Grin


Cool
 
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