Search the archive:
YaBB - Yet another Bulletin Board
 
   
 
Pages: 1 
Send Topic Print
Magnetic variation in FS9 (Read 3080 times)
Sep 5th, 2011 at 7:39pm

machineman9   Offline
Colonel
Nantwich, England

Gender: male
Posts: 5255
*****
 
If I get a little bit bored in Flight Simulator, I sometimes plan a VFR route, but I use my compass and the FS9 map to plot my headings. However, they're not entirely accurate, and I think the magnetic variation value may be different in the game to the value that I have been using.

I've always used +3 degrees (which is probably expired information anyway) to convert from map to mag. Does anyone have any idea if these rules even apply to MSFS?


Cheers.
 

...
IP Logged
 
Reply #1 - Sep 5th, 2011 at 10:36pm

JoBee   Offline
Colonel
Better to give than receive.

Posts: 582
*****
 
Depends on where you are flying.

If you are in Minnesota, USA it is 0 degrees, while here in the Seattle area it's something like -17 degrees.

So it depends...

cheers,
Joe
 

Don't argue with idiots, they drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
IP Logged
 
Reply #2 - Sep 6th, 2011 at 2:46am

-Crossfire-   Offline
Colonel
Northern Canada

Gender: male
Posts: 954
*****
 
JoBee wrote on Sep 5th, 2011 at 10:36pm:
Depends on where you are flying.

If you are in Minnesota, USA it is 0 degrees, while here in the Seattle area it's something like -17 degrees.

So it depends...

cheers,
Joe


Yup...  magnetic variation is shown on VFR and IFR charts.
 

...
IP Logged
 
Reply #3 - Sep 6th, 2011 at 9:09am

ozzy72   Offline
Global Moderator
Pretty scary huh?
Madsville

Gender: male
Posts: 37122
*****
 
The only problem is that magnetic variation does indeed vary, that and FS9 has the Earth modelled as a cylinder rather than a sphere so it doesn't bother calculating it Wink
 

...
There are two types of aeroplane, Spitfires and everything else that wishes it was a Spitfire!
IP Logged
 
Reply #4 - Sep 6th, 2011 at 9:56am

H   Offline
Colonel
2003: the year NH couldn't
save face...
NH, USA

Gender: male
Posts: 6837
*****
 
ozzy72 wrote on Sep 6th, 2011 at 9:09am:
The only problem is that magnetic variation does indeed vary, that and FS9 has the Earth modelled as a cylinder rather than a sphere so it doesn't bother calculating it Wink
Seems you're right, Ozzy; I think I located myself somewhat this side of the far side of the moon... hope the space station orbits close enough to latch onto as it passes.



Cool
 
IP Logged
 
Reply #5 - Sep 6th, 2011 at 10:13am

ozzy72   Offline
Global Moderator
Pretty scary huh?
Madsville

Gender: male
Posts: 37122
*****
 
Watch out for Marvin the Martian Wink Grin
 

...
There are two types of aeroplane, Spitfires and everything else that wishes it was a Spitfire!
IP Logged
 
Reply #6 - Sep 6th, 2011 at 10:58am

machineman9   Offline
Colonel
Nantwich, England

Gender: male
Posts: 5255
*****
 
ozzy72 wrote on Sep 6th, 2011 at 9:09am:
FS9 has the Earth modelled as a cylinder rather than a sphere so it doesn't bother calculating it Wink

I guess that's why I've been flying off course  Grin
 

...
IP Logged
 
Reply #7 - Sep 6th, 2011 at 1:15pm

JoBee   Offline
Colonel
Better to give than receive.

Posts: 582
*****
 
ozzy72 wrote on Sep 6th, 2011 at 9:09am:
The only problem is that magnetic variation does indeed vary, that and FS9 has the Earth modelled as a cylinder rather than a sphere so it doesn't bother calculating it Wink

FS9 does a fine job of modeling magnetic variation.

If you enter slew mode and press the spacebar your plane will be rotated to true north.

In Seattle (KSEA) your heading will be 340.

In Minneapolis (KMSP) your heading will be 357.

At La Guardia (KLGA), 013.

What FS9 does not model is the change of magnetic variation over time. This can make navigation with current charts challenging. There are files out there that will update the mag var, but they don't change any navaids or airports which creates another problem.

When using charts and a watch to navigate in the sim I chalk the minor discrepancies up to pilot error in adjusting for wind.

cheers,
Joe
 

Don't argue with idiots, they drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
IP Logged
 
Reply #8 - Sep 6th, 2011 at 4:18pm

machineman9   Offline
Colonel
Nantwich, England

Gender: male
Posts: 5255
*****
 
I just tested it now. 006 degrees from using slew. So would I subtract 6 degrees from my heading when I move from map to magnetic?
 

...
IP Logged
 
Reply #9 - Sep 7th, 2011 at 1:50am

JoBee   Offline
Colonel
Better to give than receive.

Posts: 582
*****
 
machineman9 wrote on Sep 6th, 2011 at 4:18pm:
I just tested it now. 006 degrees from using slew. So would I subtract 6 degrees from my heading when I move from map to magnetic?

If you slew>spacebar and your magnetic heading is 006, then determine your heading on the map and add 6 degrees for magnetic.

cheers,
Joe
 

Don't argue with idiots, they drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
IP Logged
 
Reply #10 - Sep 7th, 2011 at 6:52am

ozzy72   Offline
Global Moderator
Pretty scary huh?
Madsville

Gender: male
Posts: 37122
*****
 
Remember the rule, grid to mag, add. Mag to grid, get rid Wink
 

...
There are two types of aeroplane, Spitfires and everything else that wishes it was a Spitfire!
IP Logged
 
Reply #11 - Sep 7th, 2011 at 7:14am

machineman9   Offline
Colonel
Nantwich, England

Gender: male
Posts: 5255
*****
 
ozzy72 wrote on Sep 7th, 2011 at 6:52am:
Remember the rule, grid to mag, add. Mag to grid, get rid Wink

Very true. I thought I was correcting to make the heading 000, but actually I need to ofset it to +006.


Cheers for that! I shall have to do a flight and practise flying through magnetic deviations.
 

...
IP Logged
 
Reply #12 - Sep 9th, 2011 at 1:57pm

aeroart   Offline
Colonel
Fly the good-old good
ones: Convairs, DC-6,
Connie
Michigan

Gender: male
Posts: 91
*****
 
New York's magnetic variation is 12 degrees west. Chicago is zero degrees. Los Angeles is 15 degrees east. If you don't have VFR  or IFR charts, estimate the variation from the foregoing, depending on where you are. Add westerly variation, subtract easterly, to your true course to get magnetic course.

Art
 
IP Logged
 
Reply #13 - Sep 12th, 2011 at 7:49pm

beaky   Offline
Global Moderator
Uhhhh.... yup!
Newark, NJ USA

Gender: male
Posts: 14187
*****
 
ozzy72 wrote on Sep 7th, 2011 at 6:52am:
Remember the rule, grid to mag, add. Mag to grid, get rid Wink

That would only apply in some area where the variation is west of true north... unless you're talking about adding or subtracting positive or negative numbers.

In real life, and as modeled in FS9, the variation can be expressed in terms of "negative" for areas where magnetic North is East of true North (which means your true course heading will be a lower number on the degree scale than your magnetic heading), or "positive" when it is West of true North.

Of course, if you go past 360 degrees while adding or subtracting, that changes, but you have to visualize the circular scale, not a straight line. so, if you've laid out a true course with a heading of, say, 005 degrees true, and the variation is 10 degrees east, your compass heading to follow that course line needs to be 350 magnetic, because you subtracted 10 from 005.

On US charts, magnetic variation lines are labeled "xx degrees E" or "XX degrees W", so one has to figure the add/subtract thing every time.
Fortunately, there's another useful mnemonic for that:
"East is least, West is best".  Grin
 

...
IP Logged
 
Reply #14 - Sep 13th, 2011 at 7:31am

Fozzer   Offline
Colonel
An elderly FS 2004 addict!
Hereford. England. EGBS.

Posts: 24861
*****
 
I'll tell you what I sometimes find confusing...

In Great Britain when we fly "up" Britain, from the bottom to the top, we travel Northwards on the Compass...

...but, looking at my Atlas, when I fly "up" the coast of California from Los Angeles to Oregon, following the Pacific coast, my Compass reads W/NW, and magnetic N is off to my right!

...which just goes to show that "up" is not always Northwards!... Wink...!

Paul... Smiley...!
 

Dell Dimension 5000 BTX Tower. Win7 Home Edition, 32 Bit. Intel Pentium 4, dual 2.8 GHz. 2.5GB RAM, nVidia GF 9500GT 1GB. SATA 500GB + 80GB. Philips 17" LCD Monitor. Micronet ADSL Modem only. Saitek Cyborg Evo Force. FS 2004 + FSX. Briggs and Stratton Petrol Lawn Mower...Motor Bikes. Gas Cooker... and lots of musical instruments!.... ...!
Yamaha MO6,MM6,DX7,DX11,DX21,DX100,MK100,EMT10,PSR400,PSS780,Roland GW-8L v2,TR505,Casio MT-205,Korg CX3v2 dual manual,+ Leslie 760,M-Audio Prokeys88,KeyRig,Cubase,Keyfax4,Guitars,Orchestral,Baroque,Renaissance,Medieval Instruments.
IP Logged
 
Reply #15 - Sep 13th, 2011 at 11:31am

H   Offline
Colonel
2003: the year NH couldn't
save face...
NH, USA

Gender: male
Posts: 6837
*****
 
Fozzer wrote on Sep 13th, 2011 at 7:31am:
I'll tell you what I sometimes find confusing...
In Great Britain, when we fly "up" Britain, from the bottom to the top, we travel Northwards on the Compass...
but, looking at my Atlas, when I fly "up" the coast of California from Los Angeles to Oregon, following the Pacific coast, my Compass reads W/NW, and magnetic N is off to my right!
...which just goes to show that "up" is not always Northwards!
"Up" is rarely "North"wards (such a trajectory most always throws one a curve)... I'm still waiting for the space station to pass by.
You should try this in a CFS topview Chase viewpoint, whereas, the program tries referencing the direction of the aircraft with the top of the screen no matter which compass direction it's supposed to be facing; then, as you pan further away to get visual bearings, the entire scene flips to put "North" at the top of the screen. You're now viewing from so far into the atmosphere that that the only object of reference is the
 
+
 
marking where your acft is at; the next pan away reverts you to the blackness of space -- the world, and your acft, is gone.
Shocked


Cool
 
IP Logged
 
Reply #16 - Sep 13th, 2011 at 2:22pm

ozzy72   Offline
Global Moderator
Pretty scary huh?
Madsville

Gender: male
Posts: 37122
*****
 
Don't forget children that the magnetic pole moves around... hence my love of GPS and flying low enough to read the street names and navigate with my trust A-To-Z Grin Grin Grin
 

...
There are two types of aeroplane, Spitfires and everything else that wishes it was a Spitfire!
IP Logged
 
Reply #17 - Sep 14th, 2011 at 11:23am

machineman9   Offline
Colonel
Nantwich, England

Gender: male
Posts: 5255
*****
 
ozzy72 wrote on Sep 13th, 2011 at 2:22pm:
Don't forget children that the magnetic pole moves around... hence my love of GPS and flying low enough to read the street names and navigate with my trust A-To-Z Grin Grin Grin

Very true, although I doubt the game will correct for that variation each year. It will probably be stuck in 2004.


I do like the idea of flying with your road map though  Grin Of course, 'knowing where you're going' and radio nav is another way!
 

...
IP Logged
 
Reply #18 - Sep 14th, 2011 at 2:35pm

Fozzer   Offline
Colonel
An elderly FS 2004 addict!
Hereford. England. EGBS.

Posts: 24861
*****
 
When it comes to Maps, I have memorised all the major Highways in California over the years, so providing visibility is good (VFR), I tend to follow the road (and rail) system if I am not using Radio Navigation...

Great fun getting from A to B... and watching the traffic down below!

Paul....Interstate 101/5.... Cool...!
 

Dell Dimension 5000 BTX Tower. Win7 Home Edition, 32 Bit. Intel Pentium 4, dual 2.8 GHz. 2.5GB RAM, nVidia GF 9500GT 1GB. SATA 500GB + 80GB. Philips 17" LCD Monitor. Micronet ADSL Modem only. Saitek Cyborg Evo Force. FS 2004 + FSX. Briggs and Stratton Petrol Lawn Mower...Motor Bikes. Gas Cooker... and lots of musical instruments!.... ...!
Yamaha MO6,MM6,DX7,DX11,DX21,DX100,MK100,EMT10,PSR400,PSS780,Roland GW-8L v2,TR505,Casio MT-205,Korg CX3v2 dual manual,+ Leslie 760,M-Audio Prokeys88,KeyRig,Cubase,Keyfax4,Guitars,Orchestral,Baroque,Renaissance,Medieval Instruments.
IP Logged
 
Reply #19 - Sep 14th, 2011 at 5:57pm

machineman9   Offline
Colonel
Nantwich, England

Gender: male
Posts: 5255
*****
 
Fozzer wrote on Sep 14th, 2011 at 2:35pm:
When it comes to Maps, I have memorised all the major Highways in California over the years, so providing visibility is good (VFR), I tend to follow the road (and rail) system if I am not using Radio Navigation...

Great fun getting from A to B... and watching the traffic down below!

Paul....Interstate 101/5.... Cool...!

The good thing about America is that their roads are usually A-B ones. PCH and 101 will basically take you from San Diego to Seattle. Not bad for navigation!
 

...
IP Logged
 
Reply #20 - Sep 14th, 2011 at 6:31pm

Fozzer   Offline
Colonel
An elderly FS 2004 addict!
Hereford. England. EGBS.

Posts: 24861
*****
 
machineman9 wrote on Sep 14th, 2011 at 5:57pm:
Fozzer wrote on Sep 14th, 2011 at 2:35pm:
When it comes to Maps, I have memorised all the major Highways in California over the years, so providing visibility is good (VFR), I tend to follow the road (and rail) system if I am not using Radio Navigation...

Great fun getting from A to B... and watching the traffic down below!

Paul....Interstate 101/5.... Cool...!

The good thing about America is that their roads are usually A-B ones. PCH and 101 will basically take you from San Diego to Seattle. Not bad for navigation!


I remember, a few years ago, I planned a route from Santa Monica to Chicago in my Beech Baron 58, using my Road Maps, and following the original Route 66, over a few days, enjoying a few stops en-route to examine the local areas with the aid of Wikipedia, and posting details here... Smiley...!

Lots of fun, and educational!

Paul.... Cool...!
 

Dell Dimension 5000 BTX Tower. Win7 Home Edition, 32 Bit. Intel Pentium 4, dual 2.8 GHz. 2.5GB RAM, nVidia GF 9500GT 1GB. SATA 500GB + 80GB. Philips 17" LCD Monitor. Micronet ADSL Modem only. Saitek Cyborg Evo Force. FS 2004 + FSX. Briggs and Stratton Petrol Lawn Mower...Motor Bikes. Gas Cooker... and lots of musical instruments!.... ...!
Yamaha MO6,MM6,DX7,DX11,DX21,DX100,MK100,EMT10,PSR400,PSS780,Roland GW-8L v2,TR505,Casio MT-205,Korg CX3v2 dual manual,+ Leslie 760,M-Audio Prokeys88,KeyRig,Cubase,Keyfax4,Guitars,Orchestral,Baroque,Renaissance,Medieval Instruments.
IP Logged
 
Reply #21 - Sep 15th, 2011 at 4:55pm

H   Offline
Colonel
2003: the year NH couldn't
save face...
NH, USA

Gender: male
Posts: 6837
*****
 
Fozzer wrote on Sep 14th, 2011 at 6:31pm:
machineman9 wrote on Sep 14th, 2011 at 5:57pm:
Fozzer wrote on Sep 14th, 2011 at 2:35pm:
When it comes to Maps, I have memorised all the major Highways in California over the years, so providing visibility is good (VFR), I tend to follow the road (and rail) system if I am not using Radio Navigation...

Great fun getting from A to B... and watching the traffic down below!

Paul....Interstate 101/5.... Cool...!

The good thing about America is that their roads are usually A-B ones. PCH and 101 will basically take you from San Diego to Seattle. Not bad for navigation!


I remember, a few years ago, I planned a route from Santa Monica to Chicago in my Beech Baron 58, using my Road Maps, and following the original Route 66...
While you're remembering your kicks, who sang the title song?



Cool
 
IP Logged
 
Reply #22 - Sep 15th, 2011 at 5:15pm

Fozzer   Offline
Colonel
An elderly FS 2004 addict!
Hereford. England. EGBS.

Posts: 24861
*****
 
H wrote on Sep 15th, 2011 at 4:55pm:
Fozzer wrote on Sep 14th, 2011 at 6:31pm:
machineman9 wrote on Sep 14th, 2011 at 5:57pm:
Fozzer wrote on Sep 14th, 2011 at 2:35pm:
When it comes to Maps, I have memorised all the major Highways in California over the years, so providing visibility is good (VFR), I tend to follow the road (and rail) system if I am not using Radio Navigation...

Great fun getting from A to B... and watching the traffic down below!

Paul....Interstate 101/5.... Cool...!

The good thing about America is that their roads are usually A-B ones. PCH and 101 will basically take you from San Diego to Seattle. Not bad for navigation!


I remember, a few years ago, I planned a route from Santa Monica to Chicago in my Beech Baron 58, using my Road Maps, and following the original Route 66...
While you're remembering your kicks, who sang the title song?



Cool


.... Grin....!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Route_66_%28song%29

Paul.... Cool...!
 

Dell Dimension 5000 BTX Tower. Win7 Home Edition, 32 Bit. Intel Pentium 4, dual 2.8 GHz. 2.5GB RAM, nVidia GF 9500GT 1GB. SATA 500GB + 80GB. Philips 17" LCD Monitor. Micronet ADSL Modem only. Saitek Cyborg Evo Force. FS 2004 + FSX. Briggs and Stratton Petrol Lawn Mower...Motor Bikes. Gas Cooker... and lots of musical instruments!.... ...!
Yamaha MO6,MM6,DX7,DX11,DX21,DX100,MK100,EMT10,PSR400,PSS780,Roland GW-8L v2,TR505,Casio MT-205,Korg CX3v2 dual manual,+ Leslie 760,M-Audio Prokeys88,KeyRig,Cubase,Keyfax4,Guitars,Orchestral,Baroque,Renaissance,Medieval Instruments.
IP Logged
 
Reply #23 - Sep 25th, 2011 at 3:43pm

WPadgett   Offline
Colonel

Gender: male
Posts: 27
*****
 
machineman9 wrote on Sep 5th, 2011 at 7:39pm:
If I get a little bit bored in Flight Simulator, I sometimes plan a VFR route, but I use my compass and the FS9 map to plot my headings. However, they're not entirely accurate, and I think the magnetic variation value may be different in the game to the value that I have been using.

I've always used +3 degrees (which is probably expired information anyway) to convert from map to mag. Does anyone have any idea if these rules even apply to MSFS?


Cheers.


How do you use the "FS9 map" to determine your headings? Your method may be helpful!
 

CP - ASMEL, instruments
IP Logged
 
Reply #24 - Sep 27th, 2011 at 7:54pm

beaky   Offline
Global Moderator
Uhhhh.... yup!
Newark, NJ USA

Gender: male
Posts: 14187
*****
 
WPadgett wrote on Sep 25th, 2011 at 3:43pm:
machineman9 wrote on Sep 5th, 2011 at 7:39pm:
If I get a little bit bored in Flight Simulator, I sometimes plan a VFR route, but I use my compass and the FS9 map to plot my headings. However, they're not entirely accurate, and I think the magnetic variation value may be different in the game to the value that I have been using.

I've always used +3 degrees (which is probably expired information anyway) to convert from map to mag. Does anyone have any idea if these rules even apply to MSFS?


Cheers.


How do you use the "FS9 map" to determine your headings? Your method may be helpful!

There's really no way to use the Map directly for this... but if you use the Map to make a flight plan, the resulting nav log will give you mag headings for that plan.
 

...
IP Logged
 
Reply #25 - Sep 27th, 2011 at 10:54pm

WPadgett   Offline
Colonel

Gender: male
Posts: 27
*****
 
>>There's really no way to use the Map directly for this... but if you use the Map to make a flight plan, the resulting nav log will give you mag headings for that plan.<<

Thanks. His message made it sound to me like he was getting headings without using the flight planner.
 

CP - ASMEL, instruments
IP Logged
 
Pages: 1 
Send Topic Print