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Have you heard of Jetline Systems??? (Read 1561 times)

Reply #45 - Jan 6^th, 2011 at 10:56am

Skittles Offline
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N769JC: "Isn't simulating
stimulating?
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Quote:

Personally, I would get the 2600K. It is $100 more expensive, but has the advantage of hyperthreading (probably not a big use for FSX), extra cache, an extra 100mhz, and will overclock further). The CPU is one of the most important components for MSFS. It's your call, the 2500K is also a very good product, and it is better value than the 2600K.

So the 2500K doesn't have HT, I still intend to use the 2600, I think I just needed a little more reasoning as to why.

I'm also asking advice on X-plane.org and I'm getting conflicting advice about CPU and SSD. And after asking questions and comments, I get chewed out for not taking it and being argumentative.

So I want to say right now... I truely appreciate your advice, time and efforts. If I come across sounding like I question your advice, I don't mean to, I'm questioning for comparisons.

What do computers and air conditioners have in common?
They both will work perfectly, until you open windows.

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Reply #46 - Jan 6^th, 2011 at 10:58am

Skittles Offline
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N769JC: "Isn't simulating
stimulating?
JAQ: Westover Field, CA (O70)

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Posts: 837

Quote:

Quote:

I wanted to take a peek at heatsinks... And before you say I don't need to, I know but I just wanted to peek... They need to be renamed to Cooling Towers.
OMG! Do they even make a case to house this beast?

If you think that's big look at this:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835608018

That just looks noisy. With all the fans I'm using now, I can hear my comp from 20ft away in the kitchen.

What do computers and air conditioners have in common?
They both will work perfectly, until you open windows.

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Reply #47 - Jan 6^th, 2011 at 11:00am

NNNG Ex Member

Skittles wrote on Jan 6^th, 2011 at 10:58am:

Quote:

Quote:

I wanted to take a peek at heatsinks... And before you say I don't need to, I know but I just wanted to peek... They need to be renamed to Cooling Towers.
OMG! Do they even make a case to house this beast?

If you think that's big look at this:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835608018

That just looks noisy. With all the fans I'm using now, I can hear my comp from 20ft away in the kitchen.

Actually it's one of the quietest heatsinks available.

And it can cool better than cheap watercooling.

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Reply #48 - Jan 6^th, 2011 at 11:12am

Skittles Offline
Colonel
N769JC: "Isn't simulating
stimulating?
JAQ: Westover Field, CA (O70)

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And it's <$100. Wow!

What do computers and air conditioners have in common?
They both will work perfectly, until you open windows.

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Reply #49 - Jan 6^th, 2011 at 11:13am

NNNG Ex Member

Quote:

So I want to say right now... I truely appreciate your advice, time and efforts.

No probs. I'm actually thinking about building a similar system myself. I don't have the cash so it might have to wait a couple of months though.... I'm also a regular on a bunch of PC hardware forums, so it's not like it's that difficult or "hard work" choosing the parts.

Quote:

I'm also asking advice on X-plane.org and I'm getting conflicting advice about CPU and SSD. And after asking questions and comments, I get chewed out for not taking it and being argumentative.

If I come across sounding like I question your advice, I don't mean to, I'm questioning for comparisons.

You don't come across like that at all.

Basically, I'm telling you the hardware that would purchase if I had $2000 for a FSX / general gaming system.

But if you swap to a cheaper case (less air-flow, less space for components) and power supply (might be less efficient (more heat, tiny tiny tiny bit higher power bill, louder), louder, but still very good) you might be able to save $100.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139012

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119215

Actually, I think it might be best to go with that case and the other Corsair AX-750 power supply.

Also ASUS P8P67 PRO should cost $190

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Reply #50 - Jan 6^th, 2011 at 11:27am

NNNG Ex Member

Also, you could try installing Windows / MSFS on the Samsung Spinpoint F3. If you're not happy with the loading performance buy a SSD later on.... after all, newer and better SSD's are coming out within the next couple of months.

edit; I read the thread on x-plane dot org. I can see why they dislike the SSD, an X-plane install with global scenery is HUGE (what is it? 80 gigabytes?) before any addons. FSX is much smaller, and should fit with ease with Windows onto a 128 gigabyte SSD (It was also amusing to see them recommend more cores despite the fact that the only 6 cores that are faster actually cost $600 more for like 2% extra performance, ALSO the hardware guide that is pinned over there is horribly out of date, also why are they whinging at the price of SSD's when they buy MACS?).

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Reply #51 - Jan 6^th, 2011 at 12:03pm

NNNG Ex Member

Case Fractal Design Define R3 Black ATX $108.90
MB    ASUS P8P67 PRO       $190.00 *
PS    CORSAIR Professional Series AX750 750W ATX12V v2.31 / EPS12V v2.92 80 PLUS GOLD Certified Modular Active PFC Power Supply       $169.99
CPU    Core i7 2600K $316.00 *
Mem    Mushkin Enhanced Redline 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model 996805    $84.99
GPU    EVGA SuperClocked 012-P3-1572-AR GeForce GTX 570    $369.99
CD/DVD ASUS DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS Black SATA 24X DVD Burner - Bulk - OEM $19.99
HDD    SAMSUNG Spinpoint F3 HD103SJ 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive    $69.99
SSD1 Corsair Force CSSD-F120GB2-BRKT 2.5" 120GB SATA II MLC Internal Solid State Drive $234.99
OS    Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit 1-Pack for System Builders - OEM       $99.99
            Total System Cost       $1,664

everything else should be found on Newegg after the 9th of January, perhaps earlier. Many stores here in Australia are selling them early.

The case is not on newegg... but it's very good and is extremely popular on the Australian computer hardware forums I go on.

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Reply #52 - Jan 6^th, 2011 at 6:35pm

Skittles Offline
Colonel
N769JC: "Isn't simulating
stimulating?
JAQ: Westover Field, CA (O70)

Gender:
Posts: 837

Quote:

...an X-plane install with global scenery is HUGE (what is it? 80 gigabytes?) before any addons.

The box for v9.3 asks for 60GB. I only installed scenery for the USA and I think it was 15-18GB.

Quote:

...(It was also amusing to see them recommend more cores despite the fact that the only 6 cores that are faster actually cost $600 more for like 2% extra performance, ALSO the hardware guide that is pinned over there is horribly out of date, also why are they whinging at the price of SSD's when they buy MACS?).

2% more compared to the OC 2600K, right? Yeah not worth it.

And did you happen to read the post where DOC is balling me out? WTF?

What do computers and air conditioners have in common?
They both will work perfectly, until you open windows.

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Reply #53 - Jan 6^th, 2011 at 6:39pm

Skittles Offline
Colonel
N769JC: "Isn't simulating
stimulating?
JAQ: Westover Field, CA (O70)

Gender:
Posts: 837

Quote:

But if you swap to a cheaper case (less air-flow, less space for components) and power supply (might be less efficient (more heat, tiny tiny tiny bit higher power bill, louder), louder, but still very good) you might be able to save $100.

I don't want hot and loud, I have that now. I live in the mountians. During the winter it's fine, but in the summer I get paranoid about over heating. It's a P4 3.2 OCd to 3.5 and it tops at 140-150F. At 160 it crashes if it's 85+ in the house. Under continued full load of course.

The Corsair as more front ports, which I like. The only diff between the PS is #SATA ports and wattage. So yeah, I may go with the HX

"MACS" You mean Apple Macs?

What do computers and air conditioners have in common?
They both will work perfectly, until you open windows.

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Reply #54 - Jan 6^th, 2011 at 6:59pm

Skittles Offline
Colonel
N769JC: "Isn't simulating
stimulating?
JAQ: Westover Field, CA (O70)

Gender:
Posts: 837

The Crucial states:
SATA III
Sequential Access - Read
355MB/sec (SATA 6Gb/s)
265MB/sec (SATA 3Gb/s)
Sequential Access - Write
140MB/sec (SATA 6Gb/s)
140MB/sec (SATA 3Gb/s)

The Corsair Force
SATA II
Sequential Access - Read
up to 285MB/s
Sequential Access - Write
up to 275MB/s

Would I see the difference between the two? It's only $30 difference.

What do computers and air conditioners have in common?
They both will work perfectly, until you open windows.

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Reply #55 - Jan 6^th, 2011 at 7:21pm

Skittles Offline
Colonel
N769JC: "Isn't simulating
stimulating?
JAQ: Westover Field, CA (O70)

Gender:
Posts: 837

Back to memory again... The P8P67 has four slots...
I should be able to get 2 of the Mushkin Enhanced Redline 4GB (2x2GB) for a total of 8GB, right? I think I'd be more comfortable with 8GB.

And again about the SSD... I can't decide. I've been doing searches about the pros and cons but I'm not getting much more...

http://www.technize.com/ssd-vs-hdd-comparison/
http://www.ssdvshdd.com/
http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9134468/Review_Hard_disk_vs._solid_state_...

Can you think of anything else that may help me get off this fence?

What do computers and air conditioners have in common?
They both will work perfectly, until you open windows.

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Reply #56 - Jan 6^th, 2011 at 9:36pm

Skittles Offline
Colonel
N769JC: "Isn't simulating
stimulating?
JAQ: Westover Field, CA (O70)

Gender:
Posts: 837

I'm also partial to Full towers... http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119187
In the future I may get more CD/DVD Drives, so I'd like to have the extra slots.

Do you have a negative vote?

What do computers and air conditioners have in common?
They both will work perfectly, until you open windows.

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Reply #57 - Jan 7^th, 2011 at 1:46am

NNNG Ex Member

The Fractal Design Define R3 has 8 hard disk trays, and two optical drive trays.

Corsair 600T has 6 hard disk trays, and 4 optical disk trays.

Cooler Master ATCS 840 has 6 hard disk trays, and 6 optical disk trays.

I have my doubts you are going to need the Cooler Master ATCS over the Corsair 600T, or even the Fractal Design. I doubt the quality of the ATCS is the same as the Define R3 or the Corsair 600T. Plus $200 is massive overkill for a case. In my opinion, go with the Fractal Design, if you would like more space go with the Corsair.

The Corsair AX-750 is overkill, I think a 650 watt power supply is better suited to your system. There's this, http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151088 and also the Corsair HX-650. The Seasonic is more efficient, and is also quieter.

Skittles wrote on Jan 6^th, 2011 at 6:39pm:

Quote:

But if you swap to a cheaper case (less air-flow, less space for components) and power supply (might be less efficient (more heat, tiny tiny tiny bit higher power bill, louder), louder, but still very good) you might be able to save $100.

I don't want hot and loud, I have that now. I live in the mountians. During the winter it's fine, but in the summer I get paranoid about over heating. It's a P4 3.2 OCd to 3.5 and it tops at 140-150F. At 160 it crashes if it's 85+ in the house. Under continued full load of course.

The Corsair as more front ports, which I like. The only diff between the PS is #SATA ports and wattage. So yeah, I may go with the HX

"MACS" You mean Apple Macs?

Yes.

Quote:

Back to memory again... The P8P67 has four slots...
I should be able to get 2 of the Mushkin Enhanced Redline 4GB (2x2GB) for a total of 8GB, right? I think I'd be more comfortable with 8GB.

Yes.

Quote:

Would I see the difference between the two? It's only $30 difference.

Probably not.

Those are, from what I understand, theoretical performance figures.

Try looking at these tests:

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/196?vs=194
They're neck and neck most of the time although the Corsair FORCE kills it in some areas. If get you a SSD, get the Corsair FORCE 120gb, IMHO.

SSD's are generally a premium product though. Premium products never have great value, however, for the most part you still get what you're paying for. You can just buy the Samsung Spinpoint F3, install everything on that. If you're getting bothersome loading times even after defragging, and stutters caused by the hard-disk after defragging, then go grab a SSD. Cheaper and faster SSD's are coming out all the time. Intel is about to release new SSD technology which should be cheaper.

This is $235 SSD versus $275 10,000rpm Velociraptor 600gb. Smaller Raptors are slower.

http://www.anandtech.com/bench/Product/196?vs=182

SSD advantage:
AnandTech Storage Bench - Light Workload = SSD is 5x as fast as Raptor
AnandTech Storage Bench - Heavy Workload = SSD is 2.15x as fast as Raptor
AnandTech Storage Bench - Gaming Workload = SSD is 2.11x as fast as Raptor
PCMark Vantage - Overall Suite = SSD is 1.49x as fast as Raptor
PCMark Vantage - Memories Suite = SSD is 1.35x as fast as Raptor
PCMark Vantage - TV & Movies Suite = SSD is 1.07x as fast as Raptor
PCMark Vantage - Gaming Suite = SSD is 1.78x as fast as Raptor
PCMark Vantage - Music Suite = SSD is 1.66x as fast as Raptor
PCMark Vantage - Communications Suite = SSD is 1.3x as fast as Raptor
PCMark Vantage - Productivity Suite = SSD is 2.35x as fast as Raptor
PCMark Vantage - HDD Suite = 5.15x as fast as Raptor
Desktop Iometer - 4KB Random Write (4K Aligned) - 8GB LBA Space = SSD is 86.42x as fast as Raptor
Desktop Iometer - 4KB Random Read (4K Aligned) = SSD is 286x as fast as Raptor
Desktop Iometer - 128KB Sequential Read (4K Aligned) = SSD is 1.46x as fast as Raptor
Desktop Iometer - 128KB Sequential Write (4K Aligned) = SSD is 1.49x as fast as Raptor
___________

By the way, the specifications on newegg are often not completely correct. Best look at the manufacturer site. The GTX 460 supports OpenGL 4.1. That's according to the nvidia website, here:

http://www.nvidia.com/object/product-geforce-gtx-460-us.html

GTX 570 vs GTX 460 1gb here: http://www.anandtech.com/show/4051/nvidias-geforce-gtx-570-filling-in-the-gaps/4 Although the GTX 460 is fairly fast, the GTX 570 is usually significantly faster. If you don't mind loosing some value, get the GTX 570. Besides, if you ditch the useless full ATX Cooler Master ATCS and get the cheaper but equally fast SSD, you'll have enough money for the GTX 570 anyway.

I think it is a waste getting a 2600K, 8 gigabytes of RAM, paired with a GTX 460.

If you wait two weeks (20th january) you can get the GTX 560, which should be between the GTX 460 and the GTX 570 and cost under 300$. It will be a fantastic card.

But in my opinion, just get the GTX 570.

« Last Edit: Jan 7^th, 2011 at 4:26am by N/A »

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Reply #58 - Jan 7^th, 2011 at 11:31am

Skittles Offline
Colonel
N769JC: "Isn't simulating
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JAQ: Westover Field, CA (O70)

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When I compare...

The specs between two products

VS

The test results of two products

The story is vastly different.

After analyzing all the data, input, positive and negative advice/feedback. I have made a final (yet not unchangeable) decision.

Your opinion about the 750W power supply being overkill matches what I've read about power requirements for multiple large displays and cards. I don't meet those requirements. So yes, the Corsair 650HX meets my needs.

After going back and looking at the test results... Getting the i7 2600k and the 460 is a lopsided combination. And I do believe the 580 will not be required, although it's very tempting.

I appreciate the advice from you and the XP group and their concerns about pricing, however, I am going to go with the Force SSD. Like the one guy said, it's the nature of the beast that after a purchase is made the price will drop. So If in 6 months the price drop, I won't be unhappy.

So after weighing the pros, cons checks and balances... drum roll please

Code:

COMPONENT		PRODUCT	 PRICE
Case		Corsair Graphite Series 600T Black Steel / Plastic ATX Mid Tower Computer Case	 $159.99
MB		ASUS P8P67 PRO	 $190.00
PwrSup		CORSAIR HX Series CMPSU-650HX 650W ATX12V v2.2 / EPS12V 2.91 SLI Ready 80 PLUS BRONZE Certified Modular Active PFC Power ...	 $119.99
CPU		Core i7 2600K	 $320.00
Memory		Mushkin Enhanced Redline 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model 996805	 $169.98 	 x2
GPU		EVGA SuperClocked GeForce GTX 570 (Fermi) 012-P3-1572-AR Video Card	 $369.99
CD/DVD		ASUS DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS Black SATA 24X DVD Burner - Bulk - OEM	 $59.97 	 x3
HDD		SAMSUNG Spinpoint F3 HD103SJ 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive	 $139.98 	 x2
SSD1		Corsair Force CSSD-F120GB2-BRKT 2.5" 120GB SATA II MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD)	 $234.99
OS		Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit 1-Pack for System Builders - OEM	 $99.99
		System Cost	 $1,864.88
		Budget Amount	 $2,000.00
		Remaining	 $135.12

So I think I'm done. It will be a few months before I have the money and I'll keep tinkering with ideas. But I'm 95% sure this is my "final answer".

Dan,

Thank you so very, very much. If you don't think you've put much effort into helping me, that tells me your level of knowledge. Or you've been making stuff up! LOL JK!!!

About 6 months ago I attempted this journey and was trying to scale vertical cliffs until I gave up.

So, not only did you escort me over this mountain, you built the elevator for me.

What do computers and air conditioners have in common?
They both will work perfectly, until you open windows.

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Reply #59 - Jan 7^th, 2011 at 12:02pm

NNNG Ex Member

No probs.

Should be an amazing system, all the parts not on neweg already should appear on on the 9th or 10th.

Anyways, the first thing you need to do when you power on the system (before installing windows) is go into BIOS (aka system setup), go into Advanced Mode (will be in the top right of the screen), go to advanced tab, go into SATA configuration, and verify that SATA mode is in AHCI mode. If it isn't. Make sure it is.

Also, this is probably worth reading:

http://forum.corsair.com/v3/showthread.php?t=82516

You might also need to manually set the memory voltage and timings.

IMHO do not let the motherboard autotune overclocks, do everything manually.

Also, bump this thread up when you do decide to buy, because the picture might be somewhat different then. Newer SSD's are coming out all the time.

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