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No wipers and what are those for? (Read 1050 times)
Nov 30th, 2010 at 7:20am

alrot   Offline
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what are these thing in the front for? Due that I can't see in photos any wiper blades I assume that this is for pilot and copilot Sticks their arms to clean the glass with their suit ..right?

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  I'm joking but yeah ,I never figure it out what are these things and do citation lears doesn't have wipers ,how do they land in a storm ?  Shocked
 

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Venezuela
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Reply #1 - Nov 30th, 2010 at 7:58am

Craig.   Offline
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aerodynamics I would imagine.
The speed of the aircraft and the shape of the fuselage/windscreen mean the water is cleared by itself.

A good example, single seater drivers in a rain race, IE: F1 or such, tend to stay quite dry in the car during the race, it is only when they are at a standstill that that get wet, because the aerodynamics shift the water around them.
 
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Reply #2 - Nov 30th, 2010 at 8:50am

RitterKreuz   Offline
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if im looking at the same thing you are... im pretty sure that is part of the windshield anti-ice system.
 
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Reply #3 - Nov 30th, 2010 at 8:52am

expat   Offline
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Craig almost has it Alex. Not aerodynamic removal of rain, but pneumatic removal.
They are bleed air ducts for rain removal. Citation use a two-speed electric wind shield rain removal fan is mounted in the nose avionics bay. It
is controlled by a switch (WS AIR/OFF) on the anti-ice control panel. It normally runs at low
speed, functioning as a cooling fan for the nose avionics bay. When the W/S AIR position is
selected, it runs at high speed to direct high velocity air onto both windshields to aid in
clearing rain. The system is primarily for ground use, but does provide a small increase in
rain removal in flight. The primary rain removal in flight is caused by the natural action of the
treated wind shield surface and the wind shield shape. If visibility deteriorates on a part of the
wind shield, it may be that the treated surface has deteriorated. The surface can be re-treated
and restored to its original condition.


Matt
 

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Reply #4 - Nov 30th, 2010 at 1:36pm

alrot   Offline
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I find hard to believe , (Not that I'm saying your lying Matt)
but see, how many have drive in one of those fancy cars? that has the glass? in the same angle? ,have you ever been in a strong storm ? in your car ? or in any those new cavaliers or mazda ?,I do and when its a strong rain ,we actually have to stop because even wipers can't deal with it, we stop because the rain wont allow us to see ,and we can crash ,Even that we are on the ground and not goinfg so fast and see bearly other cars that also have to slow down a lot in a highway ,
Now IMAGINATE In and airplane ,On Final 120 knots ,were we can't see the runway and runways without ILS are the most , we see bearly the rwy lights ..

I don't know ,I got of the blower thing ,but even a air flow in a storm that big which are very common can't deal with it, better than wipers ,I doubt and the stripes really fast on final ,many models with similar cockpit like this embraer has wipers
http://www.simviation.com/phpupload/uploads/1291081890.jpg

I mean I'm aware that flying with 250ias 300 ias would blow everything on the glass ,but on final (these planes lands at 100 ias according to some reading I saw ) We slow down ,no more aerodynamics ,again depends of what kind of storm ..

Unless they put a tube from the engines escape to the glass would have more sense ..

I'm not saying I don't believe what you said guys  ,but see, try to see my point  Undecided   
 

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Venezuela
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Reply #5 - Nov 30th, 2010 at 2:42pm

Craig.   Offline
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Ok another way to look at it.
Have you ever waxed your car windshield?? look at the way the rain tends to form on a waxed window. I can only imagine then that the treated windows act in the same way.
 
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Reply #6 - Nov 30th, 2010 at 2:50pm

DaveSims   Offline
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If you have ever used RainX on yourwindshield, you will understand.  I hardly ever turn the wipers on.
 
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Reply #7 - Nov 30th, 2010 at 3:07pm

expat   Offline
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These are cut from the Citation X FCOM (Flight Crew Operation Manual)
Sorry they are two separate images, just look like one.

Matt

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B1 Boeing 737-800 and Dash8 Q-400
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Reply #8 - Nov 30th, 2010 at 5:52pm

alrot   Offline
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Matt ,I believe you ,but what I really was trying to say was ,Was this blower very effective as the wiper? see?

But your Flight Crew Operation Manual part its been help full ,now the wings will have lights ,I didn't knew what was that hole in the sdes of fuselage ,its a flash light to see the wing on both sides  Cheesy

Thanks

Alex
 

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Venezuela
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Reply #9 - Nov 30th, 2010 at 8:54pm

expat   Offline
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alrot wrote on Nov 30th, 2010 at 5:52pm:
Matt ,I believe you ,but what I really was trying to say was ,Was this blower very effective as the wiper? see?

But your Flight Crew Operation Manual part its been help full ,now the wings will have lights ,I didn't knew what was that hole in the sdes of fuselage ,its a flash light to see the wing on both sides  Cheesy

Thanks

Alex


Alex, I just posted that because a picture says a thousand words. As for how effective, very. Don't forget this is a small jet aircraft and if it was raining that hard they could not see, one, they would not take off and two, if they had, then they would probably turn around and get the !"§$%&' out of the weather. As for having no wipers, that is not a biggy. Wipers on an aircraft are a secondary means of removing water and generally (but not always) used on the ground when taxing. The windows are coated with a hydroscopic coating that repells water. Just like water off a ducks back, but in this case it requires airflow so that the water slides off. It is very, very effective and is peroidically reapplied. As Davysims says, RainX is the same thing.....in fact where do you think RainX came from in the first place. The aero industry can be found all over the place not just on aircraft.
As for the FCOM, go to
http://www.smartcockpit.com/
My Aircraft and then you get a drop down menu. Go to Cessna and then you have a whole bunch of Citation stuff.

Matt
 

PETA ... People Eating Tasty Animals.

B1 Boeing 737-800 and Dash8 Q-400
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Reply #10 - Feb 21st, 2011 at 1:27am

Dickert   Offline
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Hi alrot .

The water on the window is not as big a problem as you are thinking.  The impact speed spreads the individual rain drops out so much that they merge and form an even film.  I actually don't turn the wipers on on the CRJ 100, CRJ200, or the CRJ705 until we are on short final approach through about 500 feet AGL, and slowed to final speed, averaging around 130 to 145 KIAS depending on weight.  When you consider that we can takeoff with visibility as low as 600 feet, keeping the streight line in the rain for the roll out is not that hard either.  I just use the wippers for an added level of Safety.  As a mater of fact, we are even trained to land at night with just the runway edge ligths but no landing lights in use (we can do it, although we don't, we use the lights, and the wipers, and the localizer, and the Huds, and what ever is available).

Harold
 

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Reply #11 - Mar 4th, 2011 at 2:28am
U4EA   Ex Member

 
Looks to me to be a relatively well "armed" aircraft! Wink

If it does rain, then you have a couple of helping hands. Cheesy

At least they appear in uniform.....nice blue sleeves and whit shirts.....cufflinks would be detrimental methinks. Tongue

Sorta reinds me of a news story where it was reported that "...three armed men held up a midtown bank today..."

Although banks are fairly heavy, the fact that they had three arms was most likely a distinct advantage! Grin
 
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Reply #12 - Mar 5th, 2011 at 2:20pm

f-35simpilot   Offline
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DaveSims wrote on Nov 30th, 2010 at 2:50pm:
If you have ever used RainX on yourwindshield, you will understand.  I hardly ever turn the wipers on. 



Yeah, best investment EVER!!! Cheesy
 

Carriers would be so mush easier to land on if they would just stop turning!!!
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Reply #13 - Mar 5th, 2011 at 8:55pm

OVERLORD_CHRIS   Offline
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C-141 used bleed air for rain removable also, and I never herd any of the old pilots say it did not work that well, after all it was coming off the motors.
 

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Reply #14 - Mar 19th, 2011 at 11:04am

Jared   Offline
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DaveSims wrote on Nov 30th, 2010 at 2:50pm:
If you have ever used RainX on yourwindshield, you will understand.  I hardly ever turn the wipers on. 


+1

RainX all the way...then maguiers wax for the rest of the vehicle.....hardly a spot on it after a nice rain.....
 
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