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So your wingmen won't attack? (Read 1334 times)
Oct 29th, 2010 at 7:55am

Tango_Romeo   Offline
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This is one of the most common complaints about CFS2...my wingmen and the AI won't attack.  Undecided

Well, I got news. There's a lot you can do to correct that, and we'll be talking about it in this thread....so get set.  Wink
 

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Reply #1 - Oct 29th, 2010 at 3:40pm

Tango_Romeo   Offline
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Before you decide that you have a problem to correct there are a couple of things to consider:

- You have to assign an attack on the objective to your flight or the AI flight in MB.  OR you have to assign a different target to your wingmen while flying the mission.

- You have to give the AI a chance to setup the attack.  Sometimes the wingmen/AI will take a minute or so to do this, so be patient...this goes for both airborne and surface targets.  Remember that CFS2 is primarily a player-oriented simulation.  Cool

- AND You have to give the wingman/AI access to the target...i.e. if you hog the target with repeated passes, the wingmen/AI will have a problem attacking.  Cry

- AND be advised that if you are attempting to get wingmen/AIs to attack ground targets in very mountainous terrain (any terrain with drastic changes in elevation), you are likely to have problems.   And in most cases, you will not find a solution.  The sim has real problems calculating attack profiles under these circumstances, and tends to just ignore the orders.  Cry

That being said, we're going to stick to broad/general terms until we start discussing specific issues.  Smiley

Let's get the most common problems cleared-up first.  So the first thing you want to do is open the mission in question in Mission Builder.  Each flight is assigned a skill (Novice, Veteran, Ace) and an aggression rating (Low, Average. High).   I tend to lean toward using Veteran/Average or Veteran/High settings here for reasons too complex to go into here, but the key is to stick with Veteran or Ace/Average or High settings....though I have seen some Novice/High flights go bananas on the opposition.  Smiley

Any other issues with wingman/AI performance will involve changes to the individual aircraft files themselves.  Wink

These shots show AI choppers attacking ground targets.
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« Last Edit: Oct 30th, 2010 at 1:05pm by Tango_Romeo »  

Many Hands Make Small Work ... P-51 Contract Lost - Build Swifts

FLY FOX FOUR KOREA: http://www.simviation.com/lair/cfs2korea.htm GET FOX FOUR EXTRAS: http://www.simviation.com/lair/cfs2kwextras.htm
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Reply #2 - Oct 29th, 2010 at 5:11pm

Tango_Romeo   Offline
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Once you have established that your mission is setup to avoid the pitfalls mentioned above, and you still have a problem with your wingmen and/or AI flights performing assigned attacks. the corrective action needed will be in the AIRCRAFT.CFG file, the AIR file or the DP file...or all of them.

The two settings (or groups of settings) that you have to check are the aircraft's 'family'/ 'category' in the MISC section of the DP file and the MOI settings in the CFG file/AIR file.  MOI settings can be in either the CFG or AIR files or both.

Example of the category setting in the Betty's DP:

[MISC_DATA]
unit_family=1
category=5
allegiance=4
max_group_size=8
min_speed=240
cruise_speed=293
max_speed=439
min_alt=50
cruise_alt=5965
max_alt=8948
entered_service=4/1/43
crew=7


Examples of the MOI settings in a CFG file and an AIR file:

Zero's CFG file
;Moments of Inertia
empty_weight_pitch_MOI = 4155.77
empty_weight_roll_MOI  = 2615.22
empty_weight_yaw_MOI   = 5324.54


If the MOI settings are to be found in the AIR file, they will be in the 1001 entry.

The 'family'/'category' settings determine which type of aircraft the sim assumes this one to be...and therefore, the types of attacks it can carryout.  Shocked

The MOI numbers (in particular the PITCH MOI), if too high, can prevent the sim for executing an attack.  Undecided

We'll address each of these in coming installments.  Wink

AI NK La11s shoot down my wingman.
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AI gunner in my wingman shoots down attacking fighter.
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« Last Edit: Oct 30th, 2010 at 12:03am by Tango_Romeo »  

Many Hands Make Small Work ... P-51 Contract Lost - Build Swifts

FLY FOX FOUR KOREA: http://www.simviation.com/lair/cfs2korea.htm GET FOX FOUR EXTRAS: http://www.simviation.com/lair/cfs2kwextras.htm
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Reply #3 - Oct 29th, 2010 at 10:11pm

Tango_Romeo   Offline
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Some examples:

I watch my wingman strafe enemy gunboat.
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I observe my wingman downing an LA-11.
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AI flight of F-84s destroys coastal freighter.
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Many Hands Make Small Work ... P-51 Contract Lost - Build Swifts

FLY FOX FOUR KOREA: http://www.simviation.com/lair/cfs2korea.htm GET FOX FOUR EXTRAS: http://www.simviation.com/lair/cfs2kwextras.htm
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Reply #4 - Oct 29th, 2010 at 10:52pm

Tango_Romeo   Offline
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Wading through this thread may seem more worth it, if you see the kind of results you can get.   My final series of examples....promise....these are all shots from the Fox Four Ocean Fury campaign:  Wink

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Many Hands Make Small Work ... P-51 Contract Lost - Build Swifts

FLY FOX FOUR KOREA: http://www.simviation.com/lair/cfs2korea.htm GET FOX FOUR EXTRAS: http://www.simviation.com/lair/cfs2kwextras.htm
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Reply #5 - Oct 29th, 2010 at 11:49pm

Tango_Romeo   Offline
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Moving right along....

Here is a list of aircraft families and categories used in the MISC section of the DP file.  And you will find this most useful in working with AI flights in MB:

unit_family=
1 - Fighter (default)
2 - Bomber

3 - Ground vehicle
4 - Static object
5 - Ship or boat
7 - carrier
Category=
1 - aircraft fighter
2 - aircraft level bomber (B-24, He-111)
3 - aircraft dive bomber (Stuka, Dauntless, Val)
4 - aircraft torpedo bomber (Avenger, TBF)
5 - aircraft tactical bomber (A-20, Ju-88)
6 - aircraft strike (Fw-190F2, A-4; 2-engine nightfighters?)
7 - aircraft civil
8 - aircraft recon (Storch)
9 - aircraft transport (C-47)
10 - aircraft fighter-bomber (any fighter equipped with bombs) or Dive Bombers


Which category of aircraft will perform which type of attack is pretty straight forward....but there are a few cases where you might need to experiment.

Now we come to the most troublesome setting and most likely to give you a problem in wingmen and AIs.   Those testy MOI settings.  If you have checked all of the other stuff, then you can usually solve the reluctance of wingmen/AIs to attack by halving the MOI numbers in the AIRCRAFT and/or AIR files.  Continue halving the numbers until the AI performs the attack.

(MOI of Moment-Of-Inertia values are the amount of force necessary to move the aircraft in that particular axis.  And the Pitch number is the most critica.  The sim cannot exert the amount of control force that the player can.)

That pretty much covers the subject in a brief/primer fashion.  Smiley
 

Many Hands Make Small Work ... P-51 Contract Lost - Build Swifts

FLY FOX FOUR KOREA: http://www.simviation.com/lair/cfs2korea.htm GET FOX FOUR EXTRAS: http://www.simviation.com/lair/cfs2kwextras.htm
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Reply #6 - Oct 29th, 2010 at 11:58pm

Tango_Romeo   Offline
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A last note on assigning targets to wingmen for attack.

According to the book, giving the Attack Command three times in succession will cause your entire filight to attack the objective assigned in MB.  The book also says dropping your wingtanks and waggling your wings will do the same.

However, I prefer to select the target, give the Split Command and then the Attack Command.  This will send your number 2 and 3 aircraft to attack that target, while you wingman stays with you.   Or you can select another target and give the Split Command  and then Attack Command, sending your wingman to attack that target.

I hope I have been relatively clear and of some help to those having difficulty with wingmen and AI, but if not, speak up. Cool
« Last Edit: Oct 30th, 2010 at 11:00am by Tango_Romeo »  

Many Hands Make Small Work ... P-51 Contract Lost - Build Swifts

FLY FOX FOUR KOREA: http://www.simviation.com/lair/cfs2korea.htm GET FOX FOUR EXTRAS: http://www.simviation.com/lair/cfs2kwextras.htm
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Reply #7 - Nov 1st, 2010 at 1:27am

Tango_Romeo   Offline
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I can also recommend the AI/Wingman Flight Tuning Tutorial that you can download here:

http://simviation.com/1/download?file=AI_Flight_Tuning.zip
 

Many Hands Make Small Work ... P-51 Contract Lost - Build Swifts

FLY FOX FOUR KOREA: http://www.simviation.com/lair/cfs2korea.htm GET FOX FOUR EXTRAS: http://www.simviation.com/lair/cfs2kwextras.htm
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Reply #8 - Nov 1st, 2010 at 1:23pm

Tango_Romeo   Offline
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I can also highly recommend Cody Coyote's Mission Building Handbook available on this page (get the 15MB complete version):  Cool

http://simviation.com/1/search?submit=1&keywords=Cody+Coyote&x=16&y=16
 

Many Hands Make Small Work ... P-51 Contract Lost - Build Swifts

FLY FOX FOUR KOREA: http://www.simviation.com/lair/cfs2korea.htm GET FOX FOUR EXTRAS: http://www.simviation.com/lair/cfs2kwextras.htm
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Reply #9 - Nov 2nd, 2010 at 2:40am

Nole   Offline
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Hmmmmm, TR.  I could actually acquire CFS2 skills reading stuff like your tute and Cody's manifesto.   Smiley
 
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Reply #10 - Nov 2nd, 2010 at 11:15am

Rubini   Offline
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Thanks by this tutorial Tango!
Many years ago when I played CFS2 for the first time (9 years ago?) I dropped the game after some months because i never understood well the AI attacks...true..this was a big drawnback for me.

Two months ago I reinstalled the CFS2 and learned correctly (by trial and error) how to "play" with the AI attacks and the game is very, very good for my taste now. Interesting is that I did not anything, just learned correctly how the AI attacks behave and then achieve to get it correctly all the time that I want. Exactly as you describe oon the first part of this tuto.

Anyhow, the main problem that you describe: "how the Ai maneuver it´s planes and its settings" is also true for some others sims, and this really works for the AI problem when you manage to adjust the settings...so I will try it now, and probably will have a yet better Ai attacks! Many thanks again! Smiley
 
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Reply #11 - Nov 3rd, 2010 at 1:16am

Tango_Romeo   Offline
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Thanks for the kind words, Rubini.   It's good to know that the effort is helpful.  Cool
 

Many Hands Make Small Work ... P-51 Contract Lost - Build Swifts

FLY FOX FOUR KOREA: http://www.simviation.com/lair/cfs2korea.htm GET FOX FOUR EXTRAS: http://www.simviation.com/lair/cfs2kwextras.htm
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Reply #12 - Nov 7th, 2010 at 5:16am

alpha_1   Offline
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Great Stuff, TR!  I'm just getting into this and this couldn't have come at a better time.

Cheers!
 
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