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Harrier missed approach (Read 948 times)
Jun 5
th
, 2010 at 6:47am
expat
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A STOL approach that goes a little wrong. He stays with it a long time before going for the Martin Baker flyby.
Time to leave
Matt
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Reply #1 -
Jun 5
th
, 2010 at 8:22am
DaveSims
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Watch the video and think about what the pilot can see. He ejects when the flames surround the cockpit, probably got kind of hot in there.
Dave
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Reply #2 -
Jun 5
th
, 2010 at 10:45am
expat
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DaveSims wrote
on Jun 5
th
, 2010 at 8:22am:
Watch the video and think about what the pilot can see. He ejects when the flames surround the cockpit, probably got kind of hot in there.
Well having worked on Harriers for 10 years, I can tell you once the outriggers have collapsed, if that wing digs in, over it goes. Seen it more than once. Just very surprised he stayed with it as it started to go sideways even before the flames came over the canopy.
Matt
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Reply #3 -
Jun 5
th
, 2010 at 12:29pm
OVERLORD_CHRIS
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Maybe he had a back up plan and that's why he stuck with it so long.
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Reply #4 -
Jun 5
th
, 2010 at 1:33pm
expat
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OVERLORD_CHRIS wrote
on Jun 5
th
, 2010 at 12:29pm:
Maybe he had a back up plan and that's why he stuck with it so long.
What would that be..............Please make that go away, please make that go away, please make that go away
Matt
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Reply #5 -
Jun 5
th
, 2010 at 6:13pm
TigerAl
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Maybe he waited to put the handbrake on so no-one could steal the wreckage!
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Reply #6 -
Jun 5
th
, 2010 at 11:00pm
U4EA
Ex Member
WTH sorta seat they got in that thing
?
I saw a stooper-trooper (read stupid crew chief) eject himself out of a parked A-10 while I was delivering munitions to the flightline, he was playing 'fighter pilot' and pulled the handle on an improperly safed seat.
Although he did not stay with the seat during the entire "trip", he and the seat seperately attained way more altitude than this Harrier driver did. And this was in 1981!
I know they hafta have at least an ACES II in them there jets!
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Reply #7 -
Jun 6
th
, 2010 at 1:56am
Hagar
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British Harriers are fitted with Martin-Baker Mk. 9A or Mk. 12 seats.
http://www.martin-baker.com/products/Ejection-Seats/Mk--12H---Harrier.aspx
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Reply #8 -
Jun 6
th
, 2010 at 4:13am
expat
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Also the the MK12 seat makes it's own decisions as to what sort of ejection is required depending on altitude and aircraft speed. It has two modes, a fast and (relatively speaking) slow mode. The difference being, it can put the pilot of a fully deployed chute in (if memory serves) 1 point eye blink seconds and 1.7 or so. It can also be used at speed over 600 knots. It has a clever rigging system that collapses the chute a high airspeeds, imagine the pulsing of a jelly fish and you get the picture.
Matt
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Reply #9 -
Jun 6
th
, 2010 at 9:48pm
U4EA
Ex Member
Hagar wrote
on Jun 6
th
, 2010 at 1:56am:
British Harriers are fitted with Martin-Baker Mk. 9A or Mk. 12 seats.
http://www.martin-baker.com/products/Ejection-Seats/Mk--12H---Harrier.aspx
Not as much oomph as an ACES II I reckon? That looked like an awful hard hit that poor guy took.
Two hits! One was in the backside getting punched out, two was the landing.
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Reply #10 -
Jun 6
th
, 2010 at 10:34pm
machineman9
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Any idea what actually happened? It looked like a bad case of 'oh so that is where the ground is' just before meeting with it. Late to pull up, perhaps late to eject, definately late for dinner.
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Reply #11 -
Jun 6
th
, 2010 at 11:23pm
U4EA
Ex Member
Forgot about the first 'hit'.
The poor guy took three altogether.
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Reply #12 -
Jun 7
th
, 2010 at 3:45am
expat
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U4EA wrote
on Jun 6
th
, 2010 at 9:48pm:
Hagar wrote
on Jun 6
th
, 2010 at 1:56am:
British Harriers are fitted with Martin-Baker Mk. 9A or Mk. 12 seats.
http://www.martin-baker.com/products/Ejection-Seats/Mk--12H---Harrier.aspx
Not as much oomph as an ACES II I reckon? That looked like an awful hard hit that poor guy took.
Two hits! One was in the backside getting punched out, two was the landing.
How much oomph do you want? The spine can only take so much G. The MK12 seat was specifically designed to try and limit ejection G forces. The Aces seat runs at around 25G, the MK12 is around 14G. The speed the pilot hits the ground is a reflection of the size of the chute. The MK12 has a small-ish chute and as I have already explained because to can be deployed at speeds above 600 knots. Try that with a normal canopy and you will be falling to earth under some very nice rags.
Matt
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Reply #13 -
Jun 7
th
, 2010 at 3:59am
expat
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machineman9 wrote
on Jun 6
th
, 2010 at 10:34pm:
Any idea what actually happened? It looked like a bad case of 'oh so that is where the ground is' just before meeting with it. Late to pull up, perhaps late to eject, definately late for dinner.
What happened is the wrong manoeuvre in the wrong country. Sounds daft I know, but let me explain. The Harrier is very marginal on thrust when not in conventional flight. The pilot was performing a very short landing. The video looks like Afghanistan from the amount of Rubs (rubber hangers in the background). So add marginal engine performance to high air temperatures and, well you get this. In a previous life that involved a light blue suit I spent quite a lot of time in a hot sunny country with the Harrier Force for Op Warden. The Harrier could only fly early in the morning or evening due to air temperature conditions and was limited to conventional take off and landing. The moment that this pilot decided to perform this landing, he placed his order for his Martin Baker tankard and tie. Also he was unlucky on two other fronts. Firstly it was all captured in glorious technicolour and the Harrier is one of the few fighters that has an accident data recorder . So a nice print out of his accident at 0,1 second intervals too.
Matt
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People Eating Tasty Animals.
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Reply #14 -
Jun 7
th
, 2010 at 9:06am
Al_Fallujah
Ex Member
Looks like this happened a little over a year ago, based on searching. But I could not find any accident reports.
Anyone gotta link?
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Reply #15 -
Jun 7
th
, 2010 at 11:45am
machineman9
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expat wrote
on Jun 7
th
, 2010 at 3:59am:
machineman9 wrote
on Jun 6
th
, 2010 at 10:34pm:
Any idea what actually happened? It looked like a bad case of 'oh so that is where the ground is' just before meeting with it. Late to pull up, perhaps late to eject, definately late for dinner.
What happened is the wrong manoeuvre in the wrong country. Sounds daft I know, but let me explain. The Harrier is very marginal on thrust when not in conventional flight. The pilot was performing a very short landing. The video looks like Afghanistan from the amount of Rubs (rubber hangers in the background). So add marginal engine performance to high air temperatures and, well you get this. In a previous life that involved a light blue suit I spent quite a lot of time in a hot sunny country with the Harrier Force for Op Warden. The Harrier could only fly early in the morning or evening due to air temperature conditions and was limited to conventional take off and landing. The moment that this pilot decided to perform this landing, he placed his order for his Martin Baker tankard and tie. Also he was unlucky on two other fronts. Firstly it was all captured in glorious technicolour and the Harrier is one of the few fighters that has an accident data recorder . So a nice print out of his accident at 0,1 second intervals too.
Matt
Yeah it looked to me as if the pilot was hoping for more to happen than what actually did - Understeer, if you will. Anyone capable of flying something that large is bound to know how to land it properly and for what ever reason it seems like what they were used to doing to land it just didn't work that time. It would be like a Californian trying to park their car on Alaska's slippiest iciest road; they're not quite prepared for what to expect even though they're qualified and may have been driving for decades.
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Reply #16 -
Jun 7
th
, 2010 at 12:42pm
Al_Fallujah
Ex Member
machineman9 wrote
on Jun 7
th
, 2010 at 11:45am:
expat wrote
on Jun 7
th
, 2010 at 3:59am:
machineman9 wrote
on Jun 6
th
, 2010 at 10:34pm:
Any idea what actually happened? It looked like a bad case of 'oh so that is where the ground is' just before meeting with it. Late to pull up, perhaps late to eject, definately late for dinner.
What happened is the wrong manoeuvre in the wrong country. Sounds daft I know, but let me explain. The Harrier is very marginal on thrust when not in conventional flight. The pilot was performing a very short landing. The video looks like Afghanistan from the amount of Rubs (rubber hangers in the background). So add marginal engine performance to high air temperatures and, well you get this. In a previous life that involved a light blue suit I spent quite a lot of time in a hot sunny country with the Harrier Force for Op Warden. The Harrier could only fly early in the morning or evening due to air temperature conditions and was limited to conventional take off and landing. The moment that this pilot decided to perform this landing, he placed his order for his Martin Baker tankard and tie. Also he was unlucky on two other fronts. Firstly it was all captured in glorious technicolour and the Harrier is one of the few fighters that has an accident data recorder . So a nice print out of his accident at 0,1 second intervals too.
Matt
Yeah it looked to me as if the pilot was hoping for more to happen than what actually did - Understeer, if you will. Anyone capable of flying something that large is bound to know how to land it properly and for what ever reason it seems like what they were used to doing to land it just didn't work that time. It would be like a Californian trying to park their car on Alaska's slippiest iciest road; they're not quite prepared for what to expect even though they're qualified and may have been driving for decades.
I saw one news article that indicated it may have been an emergency approach. But only one articel said that, no others, so I cannot confirm it, nor verify the cause of the emergency.
I think I did see that it happened around 1030, which would be pretty warm by that time in the desert.
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Reply #17 -
Jun 7
th
, 2010 at 1:52pm
expat
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Quote:
machineman9 wrote
on Jun 7
th
, 2010 at 11:45am:
expat wrote
on Jun 7
th
, 2010 at 3:59am:
machineman9 wrote
on Jun 6
th
, 2010 at 10:34pm:
Any idea what actually happened? It looked like a bad case of 'oh so that is where the ground is' just before meeting with it. Late to pull up, perhaps late to eject, definately late for dinner.
What happened is the wrong manoeuvre in the wrong country. Sounds daft I know, but let me explain. The Harrier is very marginal on thrust when not in conventional flight. The pilot was performing a very short landing. The video looks like Afghanistan from the amount of Rubs (rubber hangers in the background). So add marginal engine performance to high air temperatures and, well you get this. In a previous life that involved a light blue suit I spent quite a lot of time in a hot sunny country with the Harrier Force for Op Warden. The Harrier could only fly early in the morning or evening due to air temperature conditions and was limited to conventional take off and landing. The moment that this pilot decided to perform this landing, he placed his order for his Martin Baker tankard and tie. Also he was unlucky on two other fronts. Firstly it was all captured in glorious technicolour and the Harrier is one of the few fighters that has an accident data recorder . So a nice print out of his accident at 0,1 second intervals too.
Matt
Yeah it looked to me as if the pilot was hoping for more to happen than what actually did - Understeer, if you will. Anyone capable of flying something that large is bound to know how to land it properly and for what ever reason it seems like what they were used to doing to land it just didn't work that time. It would be like a Californian trying to park their car on Alaska's slippiest iciest road; they're not quite prepared for what to expect even though they're qualified and may have been driving for decades.
I saw one news article that indicated it may have been an emergency approach. But only one articel said that, no others, so I cannot confirm it, nor verify the cause of the emergency.
I think I did see that it happened around 1030, which would be pretty warm by that time in the desert.
I would discount the emergency approach theory purely due to the aircraft being in a very tight place when doing that sort of manoeuvre with marginal engine performance due to temperature. A normal emergency harrier approach will be fixed throttle and nozzles at 55 degrees and a normal approach. Saying that, as we only have a video and sketchy reports it is hard to say, however I would suspect that the pilot had an interview without coffee and biscuits.
Here are a couple of reports I found. They mention an emergency landing, but I think that is more propaganda than anything else.
Flightglobal
Due to gear not extending, funny but the video tells another picture and if so, why a risky STOL manoeuvre
Another gear story and luckily the Harrier was not carrying passengers
So, as you can see, without an official report, lots of, well for want of another word, bollox being reported. Gear failure is a vertical landing to minimise damage. Those wing tanks and gun pods make great crush zones or a conventional landing to minimise damage if for what ever reason (read performance) and not stove it into the ground with a risky STOL approach in high air temperature with doggy gear
Matt
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Reply #18 -
Jun 7
th
, 2010 at 6:49pm
The Ruptured Duck
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I imagine he was thinking what many student pilots think when they carry too much airspeed over the runway and balloon: "I can save it, I can save it." Of course then he saw the airplane was on fire and ejected
"If you would not be forgotten, as soon as you are dead and rotten, either write things worth reading, or do things worth the writing" -Ben Franklin&&&&"Man must rise above the Earth to the top of the atmosphere and beyond, for only thus will he fully understand the world in which he lives." - Socrates&&&&" Flying is a religion. A religion that asymilates all who get a taste of it." - Me&&&&"Make the most out of yourself, for that is all there is of you"- Ralf Waldo Emerson&&
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Reply #19 -
Jun 10
th
, 2010 at 4:30pm
Al_Fallujah
Ex Member
expat wrote
on Jun 7
th
, 2010 at 1:52pm:
Another gear story and luckily the Harrier was not carrying passengers
I saw that one. I laughed as well.
Thats what happens when people report on aviation events when they have no clue about anything aviation.
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