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Strange flying experience... (Read 649 times)
May 20
th
, 2010 at 4:26pm
Omag 2.0
Offline
Colonel
No badger comes close!
Somewhere, Belgium
Gender:
Posts: 11985
Hi all, it's been a long time, but after a flight from Rhodes Airport (Greece) to Brussels, I have a question.
First, let me state that I'm always anxious about flying. I love watching airplanes, but when I have to fly... urgh... I know, it's stupid. But it causes me to pay attention to things other people might not even notice.
Today the flight was performed by an Airbus A320 (Thomas Cook airlines)
As we boarded the plane ( using a stair - Rhodes is a small airport), I noticed the left engine spoiling slowly, while producing a high whining sound. But I also heared an obvious rattle sound. Almost like a kid putting a playing card against the spokes of his bike, but metallic in sound. I kinda freaked me and I saw another guy looking at the engine with a weird eye too. But as there were flight personel walking around, I didn't say anything and just boarded.
The plane left, without any problems. But during the entire flight I could feel an oscilating vibration, coming from the left as it felt. The only time it stopped, was when the engines went to almost idle on the descent.
Now, I really don't think there was any real danger, but I'm wondering what I might have heared. I'm looking for a possible logic explanation for all of this, especially as I have to fly again in two weeks...
Anyone an idea?
Thanks.
Omag
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Reply #1 -
May 20
th
, 2010 at 5:07pm
SaultFresh
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Flight Instructor, CYKZ
Woodbridge, Ontario
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Posts: 134
May have heard a disgruntled wizard operating the engine. With that being said, I have no idea what you heard
My hypothesis is that, maybe something was stuck to one or more of the impellers, causing an imbalance, and therefore vibration. What would get stuck to an impeller without damaging it, I don't know, but that's my somewhat kind of educated guess.
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Reply #2 -
May 20
th
, 2010 at 6:06pm
DaveSims
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Colonel
Clear Lake, Iowa
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Posts: 2453
Take it easy, as I can explain this one fairly easily. On turbofan engines, the fan blades are actually loosely mounted, in other words they have some slack in them. When parked, the wind might blow enough to turn the blades, and as the spin slowly they will make a clinking sound as they move a little. This is completely normal, and nothing to worry about. The high pitch sound you heard was probably coming from the APU, mounted in the tail of the aircraft. As for the vibration, its an Airbus.
Dave
www.flymcw.com
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Reply #3 -
May 20
th
, 2010 at 6:30pm
expat
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Colonel
Deep behind enemy lines!
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Posts: 8499
Omag 2.0 wrote
on May 20
th
, 2010 at 4:26pm:
Hi all, it's been a long time, but after a flight from Rhodes Airport (Greece) to Brussels, I have a question.
First, let me state that I'm always anxious about flying. I love watching airplanes, but when I have to fly... urgh... I know, it's stupid. But it causes me to pay attention to things other people might not even notice.
Today the flight was performed by an Airbus A320 (Thomas Cook airlines)
As we boarded the plane ( using a stair - Rhodes is a small airport), I noticed the left engine spoiling slowly, while producing a high whining sound. But I also heared an obvious rattle sound. Almost like a kid putting a playing card against the spokes of his bike, but metallic in sound. I kinda freaked me and I saw another guy looking at the engine with a weird eye too. But as there were flight personel walking around, I didn't say anything and just boarded.
The plane left, without any problems. But during the entire flight I could feel an oscilating vibration, coming from the left as it felt. The only time it stopped, was when the engines went to almost idle on the descent.
Now, I really don't think there was any real danger, but I'm wondering what I might have heared. I'm looking for a possible logic explanation for all of this, especially as I have to fly again in two weeks...
Anyone an idea?
Thanks.
Omag
Hi Kris
Firstly.....bugger, been a long time since I saw you post. Life must be keeping you busy.
Ok, now down to business. The engine was just wind milling, being turned by the breeze. It does not take much of a breeze to start one turning. The whine you heard was more then likely caused by the engine wind milling backwards. The engine was most probably being turned by a tail wind. If the wind is strong enough, not only will the fan turn at the front, but it may also cause the HP compressor to turn too. It is not connected in any way to the fan at the front, so you would not know. If the HP compressor is also wind milling (and in this case I suspect backwards too) it will be turning the gearbox, also backwards. No biggy, but when they do this, they whine as the gears are cut to travel in the opposite direction. As I said, no biggy. Your second point, the A320 has a CFM56 engine (not to be confused with the CFM56 on a 737NG, totally different engine)It is a Hi bypass engine, that is to say, 80% of the thrust is produced by that single fan you see at the front. This fan is made up of blades that are fixed to a rota. In the case of the CFM56 in the Airbus, they are a long blade and if you look at the blade closely you will note at the top end are small horizontal wings. These are called snubbers. The blades in the Airbus CFM56 are able to "flop" from side to side. As the engine rotates, they are mealy hitting the snubber of the blade next to them. Once the engine is started, centrifugal force prevents them from making contact with each other making the clattering sound you heard. What you heard is a perfectly normal noise for a the Airbus engines to be making. If you fly in a 737NG, you will note that the blades are almost three times as wide and do not have snubbers. That is because theses blades are fixed in place and do not have any sideways motion, so a wind milling 737NG will be silent. However if you fly in a 737 classic, then they will sound just like the Airbus. As for you oscillating vibration, hard to say. May have been a high vibration from the engine. 4 units is the limit and the point of starting to investigate (usually adjustment of the balance screws in the fan spinner) but even to the experienced crew, 2 units can feel like 6 but it well within limits. Also depending where you are sitting, the hydraulic system of an Airbus can make some weird noises too.
Hope that helps.
Matt
PETA
People Eating Tasty Animals.
B1 Boeing 737-800 and Dash8 Q-400
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Reply #4 -
May 21
st
, 2010 at 12:21am
Splinter562
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Colonel
Tampa, FL
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Posts: 217
Omag 2.0 wrote
on May 20
th
, 2010 at 4:26pm:
But I also heared an obvious rattle sound. Almost like a kid putting a playing card against the spokes of his bike, but metallic in sound. I kinda freaked me and I saw another guy looking at the engine with a weird eye too. But as there were flight personel walking around, I didn't say anything and just boarded.
On the A320, this sound (also described as a "barking dog") comes from something called the Power Transfer Unit (PTU). It allows the hydraulic system on one engine to pressurize the system on the other without transferring (or potentially contaminating) hydraulic fluid between the systems. You hear this noise when only one engine is running (like pushback or when taxing on one engine).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_Transfer_Unit
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Reply #5 -
May 21
st
, 2010 at 5:14am
Omag 2.0
Offline
Colonel
No badger comes close!
Somewhere, Belgium
Gender:
Posts: 11985
Thanks all.
Davysims and Expat, you guys are the reason why I posted this question here. I knew there was a logical explanation for what I heared. I just needed to know from a reliable source.
I hardly can imagine that so much personel around the plane wouldn't have noticed it anything was really wrong.
And yes, it's been a long time. Maybe I should visit some more again.
Cheers!
Kris
&&
&&&&Check my aviation-photo's at
www.airliners.be&&&&Or
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Omag's Album
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Reply #6 -
May 21
st
, 2010 at 5:36am
expat
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Colonel
Deep behind enemy lines!
Gender:
Posts: 8499
Splinter562 wrote
on May 21
st
, 2010 at 12:21am:
Omag 2.0 wrote
on May 20
th
, 2010 at 4:26pm:
But I also heared an obvious rattle sound. Almost like a kid putting a playing card against the spokes of his bike, but metallic in sound. I kinda freaked me and I saw another guy looking at the engine with a weird eye too. But as there were flight personel walking around, I didn't say anything and just boarded.
You hear this noise when only one engine is running (like pushback or when taxing on one engine).
On the A320 the PTU is operating when ever the hydraulics are pressurised, be that by engine or by
electric
motor.
Matt
PETA
People Eating Tasty Animals.
B1 Boeing 737-800 and Dash8 Q-400
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Reply #7 -
May 21
st
, 2010 at 8:30pm
BrandonF
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Colonel
The Future of Flight
Location: Earth...Duh!!!!
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Posts: 2296
DaveSims wrote
on May 20
th
, 2010 at 6:06pm:
As for the vibration, its an Airbus.
That's the exact answer for the vibration; mystery solved.
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Reply #8 -
May 22
nd
, 2010 at 4:32am
Omag 2.0
Offline
Colonel
No badger comes close!
Somewhere, Belgium
Gender:
Posts: 11985
Reasuring theory... lol.
&&
&&&&Check my aviation-photo's at
www.airliners.be&&&&Or
go straight to
Omag's Album
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