Why does half of the people in here still think in the civil chain of command...

This was a military crew with both the chief of staff and the highest airforce general on board. As a soldier on duty, you respond to the highest rank available... If they say land, you simply do it or face the consequences.

And when an Il-76 crew decides that the weather is too bad to land, you'd better do the same... as these things have a lot better low-visibility equipment on board

expat wrote on Apr 13^th, 2010 at 8:49am:


Well, the stereotypical "Eastern fatalism" aside, I don't see it as a cultural imperative-  I'm talking about common sense, here.
I know that "common sense is not so common", but among pilots worldwide, it certainly is, despite glaring exceptions in all corners of the world.
And on the other side of the coin,this sort of mistake could have been made by pilots of any nationality, creed, status, etc.

After the third missed approach, it's probably time to go somewhere else, unless you want to die. All pilots would probably agree with me... at least when they're sitting in the hangar talking about it. 

Anyway,I don't believe,  that there is no room at all in Polish aviation culture for common sense... I know a very good pilot who learned to fly in Poland; he's maybe a little crazy (       ), but I don't think he'd take such a chance as these guys seem to have taken, even if the plane was full of "brass hats" and his career was on the line.

I know he'd be tempted- most pilots would- but I doubt he'd lay his life- and the lives of those who he is trying to please- on the line, only for the sake of a schedule.

As for the crew being PAF personnel, possibly given a direct order by their CIC to try again, I could be wrong, but I think
they would have the right to refuse, on the grounds that the order itself constitutes a violation of the rules.

It's not like there was some sound reason why they should all die, therefore such an order would make no sense (remember, this was attempt number four).
And here's a thought: what if the approach had gone bad, killing the VIPs, but the PIC had survived? I think any military pilot would fear the repercussions of that more than death itself!

I could be wrong... maybe this crew saw things exactly as you described- CIC says "try again" so you try again, even though it's pretty obvious that it will not end well. We'll never really know, I guess. 

I don't know how it is in Poland, but here, no officer (flag or not) can override the judgment of a sane captain as long as the aircraft is airborne.

To be fair, the TU-154 has an very AVERAGE safety record, it ain't dangerous, but it ain't a bundle of bubble wrap either. In my opinion, that pilot was nothing short of a complete dumbass putting his aircraft in a situation like that, especially when carrying VERY PRECIOUS cargo. There is absolutely no reason to fly through a thunderstorm in peacetime. Given the alternatives of a funeral on a sunny day or a ride in a limousine, I'm almost certain that man's president would've most certainly opted for the latter.

expat wrote on Apr 14^th, 2010 at 3:16am:

Quite. This is what it actually says in the article. "The [control tower] head said three times to execute a flyby procedure. When the crew did not listen, the control tower could only continue to guide the plane and watch it. It was the only landing approach, the plane crashed at once," he added.

The way I read it the pilot was advised three times during the approach to execute a fly-by. He ignored the advice & the aircraft crashed on its only attempt at landing.

Just been reading an interview in the German press with the pilots father. Seems he is poring scorn on the language barrier aspect of the crash. He says his son spoke excellent Russian. I wonder if the voice recorder will be made public, but somehow I doubt it. The pilot also has 1930 hour on type.

Matt

It was a case of either:

1. Try the approach with a chance of success.

2. Abort the approach and have a 100% guarantee that your career is ruined and that you will be blacklisted by future employers. (Going by reports that the brass has dismissed pilots from the force for such actions before.)

Yes, it may be considered a "poor decision", but it's either take the chance of success, or take the 100% chance of dishonorable career termination.