Quote:



But what about the two other diverted aircraft that had tried too make a couple of approaches due to the fog 

As for the reported dismissal
"It is It was known that Mr Kaczynski once fired a flight crew when they refused to land at Tbilisi - and flew to another airport, he said" Here Saw it at a couple of other sites too, but I am at work and don't have time to look further.

Matt

expat wrote on Apr 12^th, 2010 at 4:54pm:


Then your previous post was over stated. One time does not a habit make.

All of this is theory, as I said. Unless something akin to a smokin gun is heard on the tapes, we may never know for certain.

I agree with rottydaddy. If the pilot did have the option, Unemployed vs Dead. the choice is easy to me.

beaky wrote on Apr 12^th, 2010 at 9:38pm:



If it was a Western airline/air force/accident I would agree with you 100%, but we are talking about a former Eastern Block country and old habits, traditions and work practices die hard. Sadly the pilot would not have the last word. They did what ground controllers and superiors would tell them and nothing else. When that sort of thing is part of the aviation set up and deeply ingrained, if the president tells you (if that actually happened) then you do it. If as an American, President Obama said, "right Sean, your WILL do XYZ", under your constitution, you would have the right to say, "not today Mr President". A luxury that people in other parts of the world do not have. Also not helping is press-on-itus, because an accident, that always happens to the next guy.

Matt

1) just because you can tell the President of the United States something like that, does not mean that it will be said. I think many pilots would go for it if they were in those shoes. I mean, I've never heard of Air Force One having to go to their alternate, they probably never even have to overshoot. The case is, when your superior is your passenger, you clearly want to look impressive, you're going to want to stand out. Decision making processes can become compromised, judgment can become non-existent. The result is about 97 people dead in an airplane accident including much of the Polish government (so I've been told)
2) Hagar, while it is important to find the cause of an accident, and to learn from the mistakes. Trying to prevent human error is like trying to freeze fire into a block of ice, it's just not going to happen. Even if we somehow deter that certain error from occurring again, we'll just find a new way to mess up and kill ourselves.

expat wrote on Apr 13^th, 2010 at 3:51am:


Doesn't matter what the culture is, or even the written rules under which a pilot is flying- unless the VIP passenger wants to have a whack at the approach himself, and has the qualifications and authority to take that seat, it's up to the PIC. 

It doesn't matter who's sitting back there- the boss, the President, God Himself- the PIC has to make the call. It's simply a matter of what's possible and what isn't- if the prez wanted to fly to the Moon, he'd have to accept that it's just not possible. Likewise an approach below minimums for that aircraft and airport landing system. One attempt? sure, why not. But two? Three? Four?
The reports I've read so far say they went missed three times. All the PIC had to do was say "Very sorry, Mr. President, but as you can see, this isn't going to work.For safety's sake, we must land at an alternate."

These pilots weren't even Polish military, who could be ordered by the president to try again, in some situation where it was absolutely vital to make the attempt... but even then, I can't imagine what situation would require endangering so many top-level officials.

In the end, assuming there was no malfunction involved, and there was sufficient fuel to go to an alternate, it doesn't matter whether or not there was official pressure or the PIC was just in denial about his chances of making a safe landing at that airport on that day... it was his responsibility, and his mistake, IMHO.

I have read on the same link Expat posted that the pilot was a Polish AF pilot, rank of Captain.

But ExPat, you also mentioned that this is a former Eastern block country and blamed some of the mentality on that. Poland was the always the out-lier. They were one of the first to really resist and break away. They are a very Catholic country. Your "life is cheap" analogy earlier does not really fit with the personality of the few Poles I have met. Granted, those that I have met would be a very small sampling, and all very religious.

*corrected names*

HectorD wrote on Apr 13^th, 2010 at 1:12am:

There's no room for sentiment at accident inquiries. It's important to find the cause of these incidents to prevent them happening again. [/quote]
Yes, I wasn't talking about finding the cause. I was talking about other people blaming the death of people on people that are dead. If you are familiar with the Dash 8 crash in buffalo, people still call the pilot an idiot etc. Just let it go.

HectorD wrote on Apr 13^th, 2010 at 9:37am:

Yes, I wasn't talking about finding the cause. I was talking about other people blaming the death of people on people that are dead. If you are familiar with the Dash 8 crash in buffalo, people still call the pilot an idiot etc. Just let it go. [/quote]
Perhaps blame is not the word you want. Blame, while it has negative connotations, is the correct word to describe the pilots omissions that reulted in the crash.
Speaking ill of the dead, name calling, degradation. This is what should be left out.