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Mar 26^th, 2010 at 5:02am

patchz Offline
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Lightened slightly; waves enhanced by lightening around the edges and bubbles added; lights enhanced to shine on water.

Thanks for looking.

If God intended aircraft engines to have horizontally opposed engines, Pratt and Whitney would have made them that way.

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Reply #1 - Mar 26^th, 2010 at 9:10am

Flying Trucker Offline
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Goodly morning all...

I like it Larry, especially the lighting and water effects.

Very nice... Wink

Just something I thought about passing on to you Larry hope you don't mind.

We have landed amphibians (float & flyingboat) parallel to the shoreline of the beach with the wheels touching down in the water. There is a proper technique and one does not want the water above the bottom of the metal wheel rim. That could lead to a flip over. If the aircraft is configured with wheel/skis keep the tips of the skis out of the water.
I posted a DeHavilland DHC-3 United States Army Otter several years ago here doing exactly that I believe.

When beaching any aircraft not being an amphibian, beach the aircraft with the tail facing the beach. The nose stays into the waves and sometimes you need to use the doors to help direct the aircraft where you want it to go. We call it sailing here and it does take practice, however it is easier to depart the beach with the nose facing the water and you can lift the tail to pull the aircraft onto the beach or push it out into the water.

An amphibian aircraft can be taxied onto the beach but it is wise to approach the beach with the waves directly behind the aircraft, not on an angle if that is possible. Waves can dip a wing causing structure damage. I lower the wheels as soon as I see the bottom and not before, always try to park the aircraft facing the water prior to shutting down and do not forget about the high and low water marks.
Nothing more embarrassing than walking your passengers out to the aircraft in six inches of water. Grin

I can say that several decades ago: been there, done that and thank goodness I had a great insurance person who was also an aviator.

Oh here in Canada unless it is a lighted underwater runway (there is a name for that and of course I can't think of it right now...

) I believe it is illegal to takeoff and land on water one-half hour before sunrise and one-half hour after sunset.
Now those are for civillian aircraft, the military operates under different rules of course called I believe "Operational Commitment" however if not an "Operationa Commitment" they obey Transport Canada Rules and Regulations.

Just a few thoughts that came out of the old grey matter Larry when I saw your picture. Wink

Larry there are several great flying schools here in Northern Ontario which teach flying off the water techniques along with some bush flying skills, the military also has some great courses and they come from all over the world to participate in them.
We can enroll you in the civillian school Larry, now you will need warm underwear, several pair of dry socks, life jacket, bug spray...bug spray and some more bug spray.... Grin

. I can look up to see what you will need if you like.

Cheers...Happy Landings...Doug

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Reply #2 - Mar 26^th, 2010 at 12:24pm

patchz Offline
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Flying Trucker wrote on Mar 26^th, 2010 at 9:10am:

Goodly morning all...

I like it Larry, especially the lighting and water effects.

Very nice... Wink

Just something I thought about passing on to you Larry hope you don't mind.

We have landed amphibians (float & flyingboat) parallel to the shoreline of the beach with the wheels touching down in the water. There is a proper technique and one does not want the water above the bottom of the metal wheel rim. That could lead to a flip over. If the aircraft is configured with wheel/skis keep the tips of the skis out of the water.
I posted a DeHavilland DHC-3 United States Army Otter several years ago here doing exactly that I believe.

When beaching any aircraft not being an amphibian, beach the aircraft with the tail facing the beach. The nose stays into the waves and sometimes you need to use the doors to help direct the aircraft where you want it to go. We call it sailing here and it does take practice, however it is easier to depart the beach with the nose facing the water and you can lift the tail to pull the aircraft onto the beach or push it out into the water.

An amphibian aircraft can be taxied onto the beach but it is wise to approach the beach with the waves directly behind the aircraft, not on an angle if that is possible. Waves can dip a wing causing structure damage. I lower the wheels as soon as I see the bottom and not before, always try to park the aircraft facing the water prior to shutting down and do not forget about the high and low water marks.
Nothing more embarrassing than walking your passengers out to the aircraft in six inches of water. Grin

I can say that several decades ago: been there, done that and thank goodness I had a great insurance person who was also an aviator.

Oh here in Canada unless it is a lighted underwater runway (there is a name for that and of course I can't think of it right now...

) I believe it is illegal to takeoff and land on water one-half hour before sunrise and one-half hour after sunset.
Now those are for civillian aircraft, the military operates under different rules of course called I believe "Operational Commitment" however if not an "Operationa Commitment" they obey Transport Canada Rules and Regulations.

Just a few thoughts that came out of the old grey matter Larry when I saw your picture. Wink

Larry there are several great flying schools here in Northern Ontario which teach flying off the water techniques along with some bush flying skills, the military also has some great courses and they come from all over the world to participate in them.
We can enroll you in the civillian school Larry, now you will need warm underwear, several pair of dry socks, life jacket, bug spray...bug spray and some more bug spray.... Grin

. I can look up to see what you will need if you like.

Cheers...Happy Landings...Doug

Thanks Doug.

I'm still laughing from that last paragraph. Grin

But thanks for the story and the information. The only flight instruction I have for amphibians is what I've seen in the movies, which leaves a lot out. It makes sense to beach with the nose out. But I'm not sure I quite follow you on the landing parallel to the beach with the wheels touching down. What I have been doing when I land in water and want to go up on the land, is just before getting to the shore, lower the gear. Then I just taxi up. Are you saying actually land with the gear extended?
As to the flying lessons, as much as I would like to meet you and spend some time conversing, not to mention seeing Canada, I'll have to pass due to health, lack of finances, age, health, lack of finances, having to care for my Mom, did I mention health and lack of finances? Roll Eyes

But if things ever change enough, I would love to visit. I'll be sure to bring plenty of bug spray. Grin

If God intended aircraft engines to have horizontally opposed engines, Pratt and Whitney would have made them that way.

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Reply #3 - Mar 26^th, 2010 at 1:52pm

Flying Trucker Offline
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Hi Larry...

Glad you got a good belly laugh, I did leave out the part which requires you to bring a bottle, large bottle, very large bottle of "Laphroaig...Islay single malt Scotch Whisky" with you for snow snake and water snake bite. After a couple of good shots one does not even know what the Moderators here are talking about. Grin

Well back to the above post.

Landing an amphibian parallel and close into shore with the wheels down is not a common practice for most civilian aviators.
Not done correctly it can be very dangerous.

If you are landing parallel to the shoreline and the water is only eight to ten inches deep you want to put the wheels down or damage will be caused to the floats or hull of the flying boat.
Glassy water is a good example because you can not judge your height above glassy water unless you have a reference point. The beach, trees etc.
Keep in mind water is as hard as cement when landing on and it does not take much to damage a hull or float.
There are many reasons to land parallel to shore, water conditions probably the most imortant for civilians but the military do it for many other reasons.

I have seen a few incompetent aviators damage their floats when taxing the amphibian aircaft up or down the ramp with the water rudders still down. Not a good thing to do.

Aviating is a costly adventure, yes adventure as no two flights are the same. Very similiar to sailing. Common sense, education, training and repetition are a good substitute for learning from one's mistakes, important yes but make too many mistakes and it becomes too costly to continue or one is not around to continue. Wink

Still looking forward to that new system and some great shots.

Sorry to get so dang long winded as the old girl would say. Grin

Cheers...Happy Landings...Doug

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Reply #4 - Mar 26^th, 2010 at 4:30pm

patchz Offline
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Flying Trucker wrote on Mar 26^th, 2010 at 1:52pm:

Hi Larry...

Glad you got a good belly laugh, I did leave out the part which requires you to bring a bottle, large bottle, very large bottle of "Laphroaig...Islay single malt Scotch Whisky" with you for snow snake and water snake bite. After a couple of good shots one does not even know what the Moderators here are talking about. Grin

Well back to the above post.

Landing an amphibian parallel and close into shore with the wheels down is not a common practice for most civilian aviators.
Not done correctly it can be very dangerous.

If you are landing parallel to the shoreline and the water is only eight to ten inches deep you want to put the wheels down or damage will be caused to the floats or hull of the flying boat.
Glassy water is a good example because you can not judge your height above glassy water unless you have a reference point. The beach, trees etc.
Keep in mind water is as hard as cement when landing on and it does not take much to damage a hull or float.
There are many reasons to land parallel to shore, water conditions probably the most imortant for civilians but the military do it for many other reasons.

I have seen a few incompetent aviators damage their floats when taxing the amphibian aircaft up or down the ramp with the water rudders still down. Not a good thing to do.

Aviating is a costly adventure, yes adventure as no two flights are the same. Very similiar to sailing. Common sense, education, training and repetition are a good substitute for learning from one's mistakes, important yes but make too many mistakes and it becomes too costly to continue or one is not around to continue. Wink

Still looking forward to that new system and some great shots.

Sorry to get so dang long winded as the old girl would say. Grin

Cheers...Happy Landings...Doug

I would be happy to bring you a bottle of Laphroaig, but my choice of snake bite treatment is Jack Daniels, or Jaques Danielles if you prefer. Grin

BTW, I am very familiar with water snakes, but what the heck is a snow snake? Undecided

As to the amphibious landing, now I understand. You're landing on the beach with a little bit of water cover, rather than actually in the ocean/lake. That makes a lot more sense. I just could not figure out how you could land in the ocean with gear down. But even the way you describe must be very difficult and not for the faint hearted, at least in the real world.

Common sense, education, training and repetition are indeed a good substitute for learning from one's mistakes. However, if one survives the mistakes, one tends to remember. Roll Eyes

Thanks for explaining all this to me; can't wait to try it; in the sim, NOT the real world. Grin

Never apologize for getting long winded. Your stories and knowledge are colorful, interesting, and helpful, not to mention, as my Dad would have said, "beneficial and helpful too, let alone all the good you get out of it". Grin

But then if you had asked him his name, he would very likely answer, "J. Aloysius Foodincackle. Grin

I never did find out where he got that.

If God intended aircraft engines to have horizontally opposed engines, Pratt and Whitney would have made them that way.

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Reply #5 - Mar 26^th, 2010 at 4:47pm

Flying Trucker Offline
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Hi Larry...

This picture actually depicts a DeHavilland DHC-3 on "Wheels/Water Skis" in the service of the United States Army who operated quite a few Otters. They even served in Vietnam. The United States Navy also operated the Otters.

http://flythebush.blogspot.com/2006/01/rotting-ice-ski-planes-and.html

It is not from the site I wanted as I seem to have lost that site or link as well. Roll Eyes

I tried to google information about "Aircraft Water Skis" and all I could come up with is a bunch of "Patents" on the subject along with "Retractable Aircraft Floats" amongst a few other things.

If the American military is anything like ours these things were probably inhouse designs. Wink

I did find "Aircraft Water Skis" on a DeHavilland site along with some other types of landing gear but can't seem to find that site now.

Cheers...Happy Landings...Doug

Cheers...Happy Landings...Doug

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Reply #6 - Mar 26^th, 2010 at 5:15pm

patchz Offline
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Flying Trucker wrote on Mar 26^th, 2010 at 4:47pm:

Hi Larry...

This picture actually depicts a DeHavilland DHC-3 on "Wheels/Water Skis" in the service of the United States Army who operated quite a few Otters. They even served in Vietnam. The United States Navy also operated the Otters.

http://flythebush.blogspot.com/2006/01/rotting-ice-ski-planes-and.html

It is not from the site I wanted as I seem to have lost that site or link as well. Roll Eyes

I tried to google information about "Aircraft Water Skis" and all I could come up with is a bunch of "Patents" on the subject along with "Retractable Aircraft Floats" amongst a few other things.

If the American military is anything like ours these things were probably inhouse designs. Wink

I did find "Aircraft Water Skis" on a DeHavilland site along with some other types of landing gear but can't seem to find that site now.

Cheers...Happy Landings...Doug

Now that is my kind of web site.

patchz...somewhere between Jesus and John Wayne...

If God intended aircraft engines to have horizontally opposed engines, Pratt and Whitney would have made them that way.

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Reply #7 - Mar 26^th, 2010 at 6:54pm

Flying Trucker Offline
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Hi Larry...

Hope you watched those two or three videos about the Otters, the one has that Polish Engine...quite a machine.
The engine sound is awesome in all videos.

They bring tears to an old stoneboat drivers eyes they do.....Think I need a little "Laphroaig".... Grin

Snow snakes...you have never seen a snow snake?
Can't believe it.

I will let you in on it Larry but do not tell a soul. This is just between you and I and I do not want the young one's or the ladies to know about this. Wink

The ladies know there are snakes during the summer months but we have them convinced there are snakes in the winter as well...."snow snakes". Let's us sit about the hanger in piece with a fine bottle of Jack Daniels or Laphroaig.

Did you know that in the 1700s and 1800s the women carried the canoe, all the kit including fur pelts and walked in front of the man. Yes it is true, women broke the trail.

That way if a mean old bear jumped out or some other critter the man would have time to use his musket. It also gave the man privacy when he needed a swallow of liquid medicine to ward of the insect bites and snakes of all sorts. Wink

Well things have changed for the worse Larry since the 1700s, yup now them women drive, have the vote, they are even in the cockpit of aeroplanes now Larry...can't believe it. Sad

Oops got to go here comes the old girl. Tongue

Cheers...Happy Landings...Doug

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Reply #8 - Mar 26^th, 2010 at 7:47pm

Steve M Offline
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Thanks Doug! I just love the sound of those aircraft..

Flying with twins is a lot of fun..

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Reply #9 - Mar 26^th, 2010 at 10:11pm

olderndirt Offline
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patchz wrote on Mar 26^th, 2010 at 4:30pm:

but what the heck is a snow snake? Undecided

You start seeing them about half-way through the bottle of single malt. Best to chase it with a wonderful Canadian beer - of which there are several

.

THIS IS NOT A PANAM CLIPPER

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Reply #10 - Mar 26^th, 2010 at 11:06pm

patchz Offline
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What, me worry?
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Flying Trucker wrote on Mar 26^th, 2010 at 6:54pm:

Hi Larry...

Hope you watched those two or three videos about the Otters, the one has that Polish Engine...quite a machine.
The engine sound is awesome in all videos.

They bring tears to an old stoneboat drivers eyes they do.....Think I need a little "Laphroaig".... Grin

Snow snakes...you have never seen a snow snake?
Can't believe it.

I will let you in on it Larry but do not tell a soul. This is just between you and I and I do not want the young one's or the ladies to know about this. Wink

The ladies know there are snakes during the summer months but we have them convinced there are snakes in the winter as well...."snow snakes". Let's us sit about the hanger in piece with a fine bottle of Jack Daniels or Laphroaig.

Did you know that in the 1700s and 1800s the women carried the canoe, all the kit including fur pelts and walked in front of the man. Yes it is true, women broke the trail.

That way if a mean old bear jumped out or some other critter the man would have time to use his musket. It also gave the man privacy when he needed a swallow of liquid medicine to ward of the insect bites and snakes of all sorts. Wink

Well things have changed for the worse Larry since the 1700s, yup now them women drive, have the vote, they are even in the cockpit of aeroplanes now Larry...can't believe it. Sad

Oops got to go here comes the old girl. Tongue

Cheers...Happy Landings...Doug

Have not watched the vids yet, had to go to the grocery store for my Mom, and myself. I do all her shopping and bill paying, as she is not in the best of health. But I bookmarked the site so I will watch them later. I have been busy trying to get ready for the new 'puter setup. Downloading AVG, Malwarebytes, OpenOffice etc. I'm sure I am forgetting something and there is still a lot to be done. I may be offline for a day or two after it gets here. Depends on how much support I can get from Ma Bell's DSL. Then, when I am back online, I will probably have to go back and read all the posts in the FS2004 section about FS and Windows 7, not to mention learning my way around 7. Prolly gonna be a busy boy for a few days. So, depending on whether it gets here tomorrow or Monday, don't look for any screenshots from me for a while.

Snow snake, hmm, sounds a little bit along the lines of takin' the ladies snipe hunting. Roll Eyes

Have you ever held a croker sack behind a bush waiting for a (non-existent) bird to fly in it? Grin

Mind your p's & q's with the 'Old Girl'. Don't want you having to sleep in the doghouse. Grin

If God intended aircraft engines to have horizontally opposed engines, Pratt and Whitney would have made them that way.

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Reply #11 - Mar 26^th, 2010 at 11:08pm

patchz Offline
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olderndirt wrote on Mar 26^th, 2010 at 10:11pm:

patchz wrote on Mar 26^th, 2010 at 4:30pm:

but what the heck is a snow snake? Undecided

You start seeing them about half-way through the bottle of single malt. Best to chase it with a wonderful Canadian beer - of which there are several

.

Works good with Jack Daniels too, though I have not had the pleasure of the Canadian variety.

If God intended aircraft engines to have horizontally opposed engines, Pratt and Whitney would have made them that way.

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Reply #12 - Mar 27^th, 2010 at 9:06am

Flying Trucker Offline
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Goodly morning folks... Wink

I posted the "Link" for all to see the DeHavilland DHC-3 Otter on what I think is "Water Skis" as they look like the water skis on one of the DeHavilland of Canada sites I think.

The videos especially the sounds of the radial engines is very good in that site and there are two or three videos.

The "Link" is in the Video Forum and called "Water Skiing DeHavilland Otter".

Cheers...Happy Landiings...Doug

Cheers...Happy Landings...Doug

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