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Boeings Next Gen Tanker(The Winner) (Read 1200 times)
Reply #60 -
Mar 2
nd
, 2011 at 4:47pm
C
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Earth
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OVERLORD_CHRIS wrote
on Mar 2
nd
, 2011 at 3:12pm:
Yes they did loose out to the DC-10 with the KC-747, but as far as Boeing History in the tanker it goes with:
KB-29(late 40's),KB-50(1947), KC-97(1950), KC-135(1954-1965), KC-33(747 in 70's), KC-767(2005)
I think due to the previously mentioned takeover, they seem happy to add KC-10 as a Boeing product!
It's a bit like Airbus or BAE Systems claiming they built the VC10!
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Reply #61 -
Mar 3
rd
, 2011 at 6:11am
OVERLORD_CHRIS
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C wrote
on Mar 2
nd
, 2011 at 4:47pm:
OVERLORD_CHRIS wrote
on Mar 2
nd
, 2011 at 3:12pm:
Yes they did loose out to the DC-10 with the KC-747, but as far as Boeing History in the tanker it goes with:
KB-29(late 40's),KB-50(1947), KC-97(1950), KC-135(1954-1965), KC-33(747 in 70's), KC-767(2005)
I think due to the previously mentioned takeover, they seem happy to add KC-10 as a Boeing product!
It's a bit like Airbus or BAE Systems claiming they built the VC10!
I don't count that since they never developed the fly by wire boom that MD did, hell the KC-46"s boom is modified KC-10 boom.
Also Boeing was trying to take credit for the Airco DH-4B first refuel when they were campaigning for the tanker last year.
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Reply #62 -
Mar 5
th
, 2011 at 12:26pm
OVERLORD_CHRIS
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Quote:
Boeing KC-X Price Was 10 Percent Under EADS
Mar 4, 2011
By Amy Butler abutler@aviationweek.com
The decision by EADS North America not to protest its loss in the $35 billion U.S. Air Force KC-135 replacement refueling tanker contract competition is largely being based on its adjusted price, which came in a full 10% above that of rival Boeing, according to senior company officials.
EADS North America Chairman Ralph Crosby says the loss is a “dissatisfying outcome,” to a long competitive process. But ultimately the Air Force ran the KC-X competition “in accordance with all of the ground rules” and was “scrupulous” in detailing the factors leading to the decision.
The company spent roughly $45 million competing for this last round of the KC-X duel. EADS had won the contract in 2008 with then-prime contractor Northrop Grumman, but that source selection was scrapped after government auditors turned up procurement irregularities following a Boeing protest.
The Pentagon announced Boeing’s KC-46A won the most recent long-running duel on Feb. 24. EADS received debriefings Feb. 28-March 1. The company had until March 7 to protest its loss to the Government Accountability Office.
Boeing bid $20.6 billion versus the EADS price of $22.6 billion, according to data provided by the Air Force in those debriefings, says Crosby. These are the prices for developing and building 179 KC-135 replacements, including adjustments made by the Air Force in accordance with source-selection rules. The remainder of the $35 billion total contract value includes operational and maintenance expenses over the anticipated 40-year life expectancy of the tankers.
According to Crosby, EADS has derived some estimates of the Boeing offer, which have not yet been confirmed by the Air Force or Boeing. They include a $500 million adjustment in favor of Boeing for the fuel-usage advantage of the 767-based design. The Air Force also calculated a $300 million advantage to Boeing for military construction costs, Crosby says.
The service estimated an advantage for EADS worth $800 million for the A330-based tanker’s performance in various warfighting scenarios included in the Integrated Fleet Aerial Refueling Assessment modeling tool.
Though willing to congratulate Boeing on its win, Crosby questions Boeing’s ability to deliver on its promises under the terms of the fixed-price contract.
Jean Chamberlain, a senior tanker official for Boeing, last week acknowledged “concurrency” in its development program and production. First flight for the KC-46A is slated for 2015 with 18 aircraft delivered by 2017.
http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story.jsp?id=news/awx/2011/03/04/awx_03_0...
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Reply #63 -
Mar 5
th
, 2011 at 12:32pm
OVERLORD_CHRIS
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So EADS lost out on price, not capability......Also of the 372 minimum requirements, #373 was removed when they rewrote the rules, and that was for a ground mapping radar like the Alaskan 737's use so they don't crash in inclement weather, to me that one seems kinda of important.
But I am still wanting to know where they got the fuel data from? They proved a few years back that a subsidiary company that Boeing owned, had put out misleading data stating that the B767 was 25% more fuel efficient then the A330, which turned out to not be true, and in fact the A330 was 6% better then the B767.
Also they never explained what "More Survivable" was, after all they fly high over the battle field during normal operation, not down low like a regular transporter dodging RPG's and SAM's. The only real threat is take offs and landing, and that is for every plane that fly's into the battle field from small VIP transports, to the massive Tristar and C-5.
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Reply #64 -
Mar 7
th
, 2011 at 9:11am
OVERLORD_CHRIS
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This is what the specs say in the new Air Force Times:
Length: 159ft 2inch
Wingspan: 156ft 1inch
Height: 52ft
Max Takeoff Weight: 400,000+
Max Fuel Capacity: 202,000+
Passengers: Up To 190
Cargo: Up to 19 pallets
Patients: Up to 97 Patients
Required Runway: 7,000ft with Max Load
Controls: Yoke, Hydrailic
Engines: Pratt & Whitney PW4062 52,000lbs Thrust
Flight Deck: 787 Based
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Reply #65 -
Apr 21
st
, 2011 at 1:46pm
OVERLORD_CHRIS
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Quote:
KC-46A Lacks Winglets Shown In Competition
As the Pentagon and Boeing begin to finally talk about the new KC-46A contract, one question is: where did the winglets go?
Until this week, Boeing widely distributed artist concepts of its NewGen Tanker, based on the 767, with prominent winglets, sparking discussion among onlookers about why they were needed and how much integration would cost.
One characteristic of the KC-46A in newly released images, however, is the conspicuous absence of the winglets. So, about six weeks after winning the $4.4 billion KC-X development contract, the design is now different than that proposed on the company’s website for months.
Boeing opted against revising its so-called NewGen tanker marketing materials in advance of the source selection despite having earlier determined that the winglets would not be needed after conducting design trade studies. “Based on the USAF refueling requirements, the missions were not of sufficient duration nor conducted at altitudes that optimize the benefits derived from winglets,” according to a company statement provided as a response to the winglets issue. “We felt comfortable showing winglets on the NewGen tanker because we were considering them through the trade study. Showing available technology and potential airplane configurations in marketing material is a normal practice in the industry.”
In short, Bill Barksdale, Boeing’s KC-46A spokesman, says the winglets did not “earn their way onto the airplane.” But, they apparently earned their way into concept art renderings and managed to stay there.
Barksdale declines to say when the design decision was made to opt for standard wings. Boeing’s tanker website still features images of the aircraft with winglets. “I don’t think we are ever going to talk about the timing of when we decided to take them off,” he explains.
http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story_channel.jsp?channel=defense&id=news...
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Reply #66 -
Jun 30
th
, 2011 at 9:05am
OVERLORD_CHRIS
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Quote:
Boeing Liable For KC-46 Overage
The U.S. Air Force is expecting to pay the largest amount allowable under the KC-46A contract with Boeing to develop a KC-135 refueler replacement, with Boeing picking up the rest of the tab.
Two months after Boeing won the contract over rival EADS, which proposed an Airbus A330-based design, the Air Force got news that it would need to pay an additional $500 million to develop the 767-based tanker and deliver the first 18 aircraft.
The target cost agreed upon in February for the fixed-price, incentive-fee development was $4.4 billion, according to Air Force officials. However, “Boeing revealed, post-contract award on 25 April 2011, that during source selection it proposed a ceiling price for the [engineering and manufacturing development] contract that is less than its actual projected cost to execute the contract,” says Lt. Col. Jack Miller, an Air Force spokesman, in a statement. “Boeing is liable for all cost above the $4.9 billion contract ceiling.”
Bloomberg broke the news last week that Boeing may have to pay $300 million over the contract ceiling (totaling $5.2 billion) to develop the KC-46A. The company chose a strategy of submitting a low bid – risking a deficit in development — to make up for the loss in projected sales.
The Air Force intends to buy 179 KC-46A tankers, and there are international opportunities. “We expect to make money on the KC-46 tanker program,” says Bill Barksdale, a Boeing spokesman, in a statement. “The KC-46 contract opens additional opportunities, including potential U.S. and international tanker sales and related services for decades to come.” Boeing has not yet been awarded a KC-46 production contract.
Barksdale and Miller both decline to identify the projected amount of the KC-46A development estimate at completion for the development program. Barksdale also declines to say how many of the tankers must be produced for the company to break even. Barksdale says the Boeing KC-46 bid was “aggressive but responsible.” He declined to say when the company realized its actual development cost would exceed the contract ceiling.
Boeing’s next earnings call with investors is July 27, and this may be when the company discusses how it will take a charge or charges for the projected overrun. So far, Boeing’s stock price has not indicated concern from investors.
“It is one program. It is a bit of a surprise, clearly, but in the broader context of everything else going on with the company and the stock, it doesn’t have the weight or bearing” to influence its price, says Byron Callan of Capital Alpha Partners.
One Air Force official says that if Boeing’s out-of-pocket cost is $300 million, “it may be the best $300 million Boeing spends all year” because it maintained the company’s grip on a decades-old refueler business in the U.S. and kept Airbus from establishing a stateside facility to build A330s.
Barksdale notes that the company is on schedule with the KC-46A development work. Few details about the schedule have been released, though, except for the requirement to deliver the first 18 aircraft in the final production configuration by the fourth quarter of fiscal 2017.
Boeing’s low-ball strategy does not violate acquisition law or regulations, Miller says. “There is no legal barrier that prohibits an offer or from pursuing a below-cost proposal strategy,” he says.
Boeing’s bid price was 10% below that of EADS’s, according to company officials after their loss. If the $300 million projected cost to Boeing is true, this would put the price about 4% below that of its rival.
http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story.jsp?id=news/asd/2011/06/29/01.xml&h...
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Reply #67 -
Jul 19
th
, 2011 at 6:30pm
OVERLORD_CHRIS
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Quote:
Cost of Boeing’s US Air Force Contract Could Overrun
Five months after Boeing won a massive contract to supply air refuelling tankers to the US Air Force, the US giant fears the project may run over budget, Focus magazine reported Sunday.
The 4.9 billion-dollar (3.5 billion-euro) budget set for the first stage of the project, for the first four of 179 aircraft, was set to overrun, the magazine said, citing a Boeing spokesman.
The spokesman said that if the budget was indeed exceeded, which was expected to happen, Boeing would pick up the extra costs as per the contract.
The US Air Force expected the overrun to reach 300 million euros, the magazine added — from a total contract value of 35 billion dollars.
The Boeing spokesman told Focus the company had made an “aggressive” offer to win the contract in the face of competition from European giant EADS.
Boeing is to deliver the first batch of 18 aircraft by 2017.
The company won the contract to replace a fleet of ageing Boeing aerial refuelling tankers after a long and bitter battle with EADS.
After two earlier decisions were annulled, the Defense Department on February 24 named Boeing the winner. Airbus parent European Aeronautic Defence and Space Company decided not to appeal the decision.
But a spokesman for EADS told Focus magazine: “If Boeing doesn’t fulfill its contract at the agreed price, we are available.”
http://www.aviationnews.eu/2011/07/18/cost-of-boeings-us-air-force-contract-coul...
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Reply #68 -
Aug 29
th
, 2011 at 4:42pm
OVERLORD_CHRIS
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Quote:
USAF, Boeing Complete Key KC-46A Review
Aug 29, 2011
By Amy Butler
The U.S. Air Force has completed an interim baseline review (IBR) for the KC-46A aerial refueler, clearing the first major schedule milestone for the program.
The review lasted weeks and concluded Aug. 24, according to Jennifer Cassidy, an Air Force spokeswoman. “IBRs are intended to provide a mutual understanding of risks inherent in contractors’ performance plans and underlying management control systems,” she says. An IBR is a formal review conducted directly by the government in cooperation with the contractor team. These reviews also outline what resources are needed to achieve program goals.
The company won the work Feb. 24 under a fixed-price contract. Because of the contract’s aggressive schedule for deliveries by 2017 and the fixed-price development, many in industry are closely watching progress. The IBR was conducted in accordance with the program schedule, which called for the review to be complete within seven months of contract award.
Cassidy says the IBR was “successful,” but service procurement officials declined to provide detail on the outcome of the review. Boeing deferred questions on the IBR to the Air Force.
A critical design review is slated for 31 months after contract award, or September 2013, and the first 18 KC-46As are due for delivery in 2017.
Boeing is expected to exceed its contract ceiling of $4.9 billion; the company is liable for any costs beyond that ceiling (Aerospace DAILY, July 28). The Air Force plans to buy 179 KC-46As to begin replacing the aging KC-135 fleet.
http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/generic/story.jsp?id=news/asd/2011/08/29/01.xml&h...
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Reply #69 -
Aug 29
th
, 2011 at 10:31pm
pfevrier
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Dallas, TX
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Wow, imagine the Air Force flying modified Il-96s to fuel up F18s...
I bet a few people would roll in their graves
-Pierre-
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Reply #70 -
Jan 5
th
, 2012 at 9:19pm
OVERLORD_CHRIS
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No C-17B's, C-5M's for
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Chalreston SC
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Quote:
Boeing to close historic Wichita plant by end of 2013
WICHITA – Boeing, for decades the brand that helped support Wichita's claim as the aviation capital of the world, announced Wednesday it will shut down facilities in the city by the end of 2013 and send work to plants in three other states as it deals with defense spending cutbacks.
The closure will cost more than 2,160 workers their jobs and end the firm's presence in an area, where it has been a major employer for generations.
The decision was not a surprise because Boeing (BA) said in November that it was looking at closing the Wichita plant. But it still drew an angry response from Kansas lawmakers who helped Boeing land a lucrative Air Force refueling tanker project in February and had expected thousands of jobs to come to Wichita with it. Instead, the work will go to Boeing's facilities near Seattle and Oklahoma City.
"Boeing's announcement is that things have changed," U.S. Sen. Jerry Moran said. "Well, the only thing that really has changed in my mind in the last year is Boeing now has the contract. When they made the commitments, they didn't."
Boeing, a major defense contractor, began looking at closing the plant at the same time the Pentagon was trying to prevent $500 billion in automatic, across-the-board defense budget cuts over 10 years in the wake of a failure by a bipartisan congressional supercommittee to agree on $1.2 trillion or more in deficit reductions.
Wichita officials had hoped the number of jobs at the facility would grow after Boeing won the contract worth at least $35 billion to build 179 Air Force refueling tankers. Modification work on the planes was expected to generate 7,500 direct and indirect jobs with a total economic impact of nearly $390 million.
Boeing said 24 Kansas-based suppliers for the refueling tanker project will still provide parts as planned. On Wednesday, Boeing shares closed up 11 cents to $74.33.
"In this time of defense budget reductions, as well as shifting customer priorities, Boeing has decided to close its operations in Wichita to reduce costs, increase efficiencies and drive competitiveness," Mark Bass, vice president and general manager for the Boeing Defense, Space & Security facility in Wichita, said in a statement.
The first layoffs in Wichita are expected in the third quarter of 2012. While the Seattle area will build the tanker, engineering and modification work on it will move to Oklahoma City and future aircraft maintenance, modification and support will go to San Antonio, Tex.
Oklahoma will get about 800 jobs and San Antonio will gain 300 to 400 jobs, Bass said. The company will move 200 tanker jobs to its plant in Washington, while moving 100 support jobs, primarily engineering, now in Washington to Oklahoma City in the shuffle.
Boeing said it will continue to have a significant impact on the Kansas economy and its aerospace industry. The Chicago-based company spent more than $3.2 billion with 475 Kansas suppliers last year. Kansas is the fourth-largest state in its supplier network, it said.
But that wasn't enough for lawmakers like U.S. Sen. Pat Roberts, who said Boeing had promised as recently as February to remain in Wichita if it landed the tanker contract. Roberts and others urged the company to reconsider.
"Today's announcement by Boeing's leadership is hugely disappointing to me, but more importantly to the thousands of workers whose livelihoods are affected by this decision," Roberts said.
Moran called Boeing's move "a blow to our mental health as well as our pocketbooks." Kansas officials are still willing to do what it takes to keep the Boeing plant open, but "it's difficult to negotiate with someone who hasn't kept their word," he said.
Gov. Sam Brownback promised Kansas will pursue opportunities in commercial aircraft manufacturing. Aircraft makers like Cessna Aircraft Co., Hawker Beechcraft and Bombardier LearJet still have plants in Wichita, which Brownback said remains "the best place in the world to build airplanes."
Boeing has had a facility in Wichita since it bought the Stearman Aircraft Co. in 1929.
Employment at the plant peaked during World War II as the company churned out four bombers a day. Its 40,000 workers included President Barack Obama's beloved grandmother Madelyn Dunham, known as "Toot," who did her part for the war effort by working the night shift as a supervisor on the B-29 bomber assembly line.
The company remained Wichita's largest employer for decades after the war.
It still had about 15,000 workers in the city in 2005, when it spun off its commercial aircraft operations in Kansas and Oklahoma. After the divestiture, Boeing kept 4,500 workers for its defense work in Wichita, but layoffs have since slashed that number.
Even with the defense plant's closure, Boeing will have an economic impact in Wichita. Spirit AeroSystems, which took over Boeing's commercial aircraft operations, builds parts for the company.
"But it would be different to a certain extent because of the fact that, you know, it is kind of like family that you actually have and a member of the family is moving away," said Mayor Carl Brewer, who once worked for Boeing himself. "So there is a lot of emotional and economic attachment tied to this."
http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/manufacturing/story/2012-01-04/boeing-p...
Just in case you don't remember what was said and why this was a big deal:
Quote:
Thursday, February 24, 2011......... Release from Gov. Brownback:
Kansas Governor Sam Brownback issued the following statement after the U.S. Air Force announced today that it will award its $35 billion contract to build a new fleet of military air tankers to Boeing Company.
“I have been waiting a decade to say this – Congratulations Boeing workers! This is a great day for the company, its employees as well as for our country’s economy and for Kansas. The U.S. Air Force’s decision to award its $35 billion contract to Boeing is the type of economic growth government can provide to get the U.S. and our state back on the road to economic recovery with good jobs.
I commend the Air Force for keeping the production of this vital program in the United States. It ensures the world’s newest and most capable tanker will be built by Americans for our American warfighters. I am very pleased the tankers will be built here in Kansas by the highly skilled and motivated Wichita area workforce. This is great news for American jobs and for American security.”
Boeing announced last spring Kansas would benefit from approximately 7,500 jobs and an estimated $388 million in annual economic impact if the Boeing NewGen Tanker was selected as the U.S. Air Force's next aerial refueling aircraft
.......
http://www.kake.com/home/headlines/Tanker_Decision_Expected_Thursday_116758334.h...
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Reply #71 -
Jan 7
th
, 2012 at 10:15am
Jayhawk Jake
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Wichita, KS
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I'm a 'Wichitan' as they'd say, and the Boeing closure has been big news here obviously. I think everyone saw the writing on the wall though...it was inevitable. Hopefully Spirit or Airbus picks up the facility and expands their operations, this city needs more jobs, not a huge loss (especially since Hawker Beechcraft might not exist much longer)
AMD Athalon X6 1090T 3.2Ghz::EVGA nVidia GeForce GTX 560Ti 2GB GDDR5::8GB RAM
*The opinions expressed above are my own and are in no way representative of fact or opinion of any other person, corporation, or company.*
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Reply #72 -
Feb 27
th
, 2012 at 10:32pm
OVERLORD_CHRIS
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No C-17B's, C-5M's for
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Chalreston SC
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Quote:
Boeing Marks 1st Anniversary of KC-46A Tanker Contract Award
The Boeing [NYSE: BA] KC-46 Tanker program today marked the first anniversary of receiving a U.S. Air Force contract to build the next-generation aerial refueling tanker, the KC-46A. Over the past year, the program has completed key milestones in support of the design and development phase on or ahead of schedule, and is now preparing for a Preliminary Design Review (PDR) in March.
“The KC-46 program is on a good path. Boeing’s performance thus far has been solid,” said Maj. Gen. Chris Bogdan, KC-46 Program Executive Officer, U.S. Air Force. “Our commitment is to deliver the KC-46A to the nation’s warfighters, on schedule and ready to go to war on Day One, as the world’s most advanced tanker. I’m pleased to report that Boeing is meeting its commitments.”
Since receiving the contract on Feb. 24, 2011, the Boeing KC-46 team has completed several major milestones, including a System Requirements Review, Integrated Baseline Review, 767-2C PDR, and Firm Configuration Reviews for the 767-2C and the KC-46A Tanker.
“I’m very proud of our joint team,” said Maureen Dougherty, Boeing KC-46 Tanker vice president and program manager. “We’re drawing on the best of Boeing’s industry-leading commercial airplane and defense expertise as we design and develop the KC-46A, which is a next-generation derivative aircraft. We remain on plan to deliver the first 18 combat-ready tankers by 2017.”
The PDR, which will ensure that Boeing’s design meets system requirements, will be followed by a Critical Design Review (CDR) in the third quarter of 2013. The CDR determines that the design of the KC-46A is mature and ready to proceed to the manufacturing phase of the program.
Boeing will build 179 next-generation aerial refueling tanker aircraft that will begin to replace the Air Force’s fleet of 416 KC-135 tankers. Based on the proven Boeing 767 commercial airplane, the KC-46A tanker is a widebody, multi-mission aircraft updated with the latest and most advanced technology to meet the demanding mission requirements of the future, including a digital flight deck featuring Boeing 787 Dreamliner electronic displays and a flight control design philosophy that places aircrews in command to maximize combat maneuverability. The KC-46A also features a modernized KC-10 boom with a fly-by-wire control system, and a refueling envelope and fuel offload rate that is greater than the KC-135 it will replace.
http://www.aviationnews.eu/2012/02/24/boeing-marks-1st-anniversary-of-kc-46a-tan...
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