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› Real vs Simulated. Which is easier?
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Real vs Simulated. Which is easier? (Read 1123 times)
Mar 13
th
, 2010 at 9:20am
machineman9
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I'm not sure if it has been asked before on these forums, but I'm interested to hear your view on the matter. Which do you believe is easier to fly in? The real world, or the simulated?
I believe there are benefits to both. I do not have a very powerful computer, I do not have TrackIR, I do not have a fancy homebuilt cockpit. Therefore, it makes it harder to look around and observe the surroundings. If I need to flick a switch I either have to remember the button assignment or move the hatswitch, zoom in and find it. When there's lag in the game it can make it harder to control the aircraft and as my joystick does not respond to every minute detail, not all controls are as subtle as they could be.
Real world flying is expensive and comes with all the risks, it's quite clear that it is the 'real deal' but I find flying in the real world to sometimes be easier as I can feel the effects of the aircraft better. When flying on the game, usually at night or in bad visibility, I sometimes lose my heading or altitude, but in the real world I find I'm able to keep those much better as I can actually feel the aircraft pitching or rolling so I have a better understanding of where I'm going and how to correct it.
I'm not saying all kinds of real world flying are easy. Air racing and military pilots do a heck of a job, as do airline pilots. But I am talking about typical flying (unless of course you are one of the aforementioned) such as in props, perhaps gliders. Things like that.
Personally I find real world flying, though I have limited experience, to be easier than in the game. I've only taken the controls in mid flight but I find that because I'm able to control everything as I want to (I am not limited by strange physics which sometimes act on the aircraft in MSFS) and I can see everything and control it exactly, that I find it easier to do. Being able to feel the effect of the controls and the forces on myself and the aircraft makes it, to me, easier to handle than on flight simulator.
How about you? Would you agree? I know some people enjoy flight simulators just for the ease they give you in typical and good flying conditions, but as a whole, do you think it is easier to fly in real life or in simulated?
Cheers
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Reply #1 -
Mar 13
th
, 2010 at 10:11am
beaky
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Real life is much easier, in terms of actually handling the aircraft. We get used to the differences,and it's asking a lot to get total realism, but they are still obvious, and sometimes annoying.
Especially without Track IR... compared to RL, it's like flying with a really stiff neck.
That's my #1 peeve (which I will rectify eventually by getting or making an IR tracker)... in RL, you don't want to whip your head around too much (unless you're in a dogfight, race, formation or aerobatics), but you can easily flick your eyes around the panel, around the view outside... you can look over your shoulder very quickly, etc. I don't know how anybody flies in the sim with only 2D views... VFR, anyway.
Then there's the models. No matter how realistic they are, they're not the same. It's not very noticeable with very large aircraft (for example, I have handled the real Ford Tri-Motor in flight, briefly, and it turns pretty much like the default model in FS9), and in general it's not very noticeable in typical maneuvers in any airplane, but on the ground they're all lousy, including taking off and landing.
Then there's comms... VATSIM, I hear, compensates well for this, but it's annoyingly robotic in the sim (I don't mean the voices, I mean the whole approach to contacting and conversing with ATC). In real life, it's much, much more flexible and smooth, even if the controllers are not always flexible or smooth, LOL.
And there's other little things... the air itself is not modeled realistically (not that it's reasonable to expect that, or expect the average PC to handle such processing!).
No terrain-induced turbulence or lift, no effect of terrain or ground objects on wind, and gusts and turbulence are just not quite right. Even the add-ons are not very good with some of this... Active Sky allows vertical air movement, but I can't use it, because it's very heavy-handed, to the extent that in a light single you can spend an entire 100-mile leg battling either an updraft or downdraft; the real world is very rarely like that; usually you get a bubble here, a sinkhole there. True, in RL there's a lot more variation in air behavior in RL, but RL pilots learn how to predict it, and often use it to their advantage.
And I've tried using thermal add-ons for soaring in FS9, but again, it's not right. The thermals are not where you'd normally expect to find them, nor are they dependent on weather conditions, as they would be in RL.
The only advantages to the sim, IMHO, are that it's cheaper, and I get to enjoy operations, destinations and aircraft that would not be possible for me in RL.
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Last Edit: Mar 13
th
, 2010 at 10:25pm by beaky
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Reply #2 -
Mar 13
th
, 2010 at 10:18am
Brett_Henderson
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These end up being some of the most interesting threads.. I'll jump in
First off.. MSFS lets you get away with so many "things" that would end a real flight instantly (and fatally), that it's universally "easier" than real flying.
That aside.. within an envelope of realistic maneuvering, a real C172 is easier to fly, simply because of all the extra sensory input. A person who has never done either, with an "instructor" holding his hand, is less likely to "crash" a real airplane, first time out; than he's likey to crash the sim airplane. In other words; if you could find a robotic instructor willing to sit on his hands as the new-pilot killed them both plowing into the runway... the real-world, first-flight would end succesfully, more often than the sim first-flight.
Now.. as far as being rewarded/punished for good/poor piloting technique.. and learning/practicing flying by the numbers, and refining your skill.. the'yre about equally hard/easy (assuming a realistic model). However.. the disparity widens as the aircraft gets larger/faster/more-complex.
The fact that the MSFS flight-model, gets less and less realitic as you get further away from a light, single piston airplane makes this argument moot for those airplanes.
A real-world GA pilot could sit down in front of the sim for the first time, and likely make a succesful flight in a 737.. whereas that same pilot couldn't pull away from the gate in a real 737 without a co-pilot
SOoooo.. assuming this debate is limited to light, piston singles; with realistic flight-models.. we can continue.
Quote:
When flying on the game, usually at night or in bad visibility, I sometimes lose my heading or altitude, but in the real world I find I'm able to keep those much better as I can actually feel the aircraft pitching or rolling so I have a better understanding of where I'm going and how to correct it.
This is interesting... and points to one of the aspects of simming that are SO realistic, that real-world intrument training can be logged on a sim.
Note:
I'm refereing to the 10 out of 40 intrument hours needed for an instrument rating that can be logged on an approved simulator under CFII supervision... Contrary to urban legend, FS9/FSX can be used if run with approved hardware, and are actually superior to commony used software
If you were flying hard IMC (
caint see a thing
..) I'd have to give the "easy" edge to the simulator, for the exact opposite reason that VFR flying is easier in a real airplane. You aren't getting overwhelmed and disoriented by all the sensory conflicts. It's hard to truly relate to someone who's never done it, what happens to your senses while IMC.
Either way(s) .. real/sim IMC/poor-visibility.. the instruments work, and learning proper IMC scanning will keep you from losing heading/altitude. This is where the sim shines. You really can learn a LOT about instrument flight in front of a monitor.
Overall ? Which is easier ?
As far as learning and applying and practicing useful piloting skill, they're about equal..
IF
you, the pilot/simmer, sim with realism as a high priority.
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Reply #3 -
Mar 13
th
, 2010 at 10:37am
specter177
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I think for recreational flying, real life is easier, but for more complex stuff, life IMC and heavy metal, sim is easier.
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Reply #4 -
Mar 13
th
, 2010 at 1:56pm
SaultFresh
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I think this total depends on the type of sim you're talking about to. I find Flight Sim X to be incredibly hard to fly sometimes, thank goodness everything pretty much has an autopilot in the game. The simulator that I've done most of my instrument training on is a different story. That's a real simulator, the only thing it doesn't do is move. It's got a full 180 degree wrap-around screen with graphics realistic enough to navigate on. With that being said, partial panel or just lack of a good scan in that thing will result in a spiral dive or something that in real life, would kill you, haha. The real flying in a real airplane is, in my opinion, the easiest to do things. You feel the movements, the bumps, you can hear the noises, everything feels 3-dimensional, in the sense that you can feel the movements, the rolls, and pitches. With that being said though, always trust your instruments over your senses.
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Reply #5 -
Mar 13
th
, 2010 at 2:01pm
Thud
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Seat of the pants flying.
It's easier in real life because you can actually feel what the plane is doing, instead of relying on gauges alone.
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Mar 13
th
, 2010 at 2:10pm
skoker
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Real life is way easier. I think its because you have more control over the aircraft and get to see how things actually work. In a FS for a computer you also have dead gauges (that modelers don't feel like doing) and systems.
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Reply #7 -
Mar 13
th
, 2010 at 4:48pm
Tyler012
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The way I see it, flying ATP in simulator would probably teach you just enough to be able to make an emergency landing in a real 737 if your pilots were unconcious, assuming you know where to look for gauges and manuals.
Just a sample of my personal art.
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Reply #8 -
Mar 13
th
, 2010 at 9:15pm
olderndirt
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One thing that's much easier in FS is Screenshotting. All of my outside shots in real flying were usually taken by someone in another plane or on the ground. The difficulty, not to mention danger, involved in doing it yourself still gives me nightmares whereas, while flying in the sim, you are literally "free to move about the country". Kidding aside, FS lets you learn IFR procedures at you leisure with an instrument panel that would cost an arm and a leg in real life and navaids that function with little or no maintenance. BUT - on the other hand, VFR flight, in FS, is just a game which, without the accurate sceneries to hold your interest, becomes very boring, very fast. Comparison of visual flight in FS to the real thing isn't worth the effort because some things can't be simulated. If it helps encourage a new generation of licensed pilots or has saved people money staying current on the clocks, then great
.
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Reply #9 -
Mar 14
th
, 2010 at 4:29am
expat
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It is far easier to stay alive in the simulated world
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Reply #10 -
Mar 14
th
, 2010 at 7:46am
Fozzer
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expat wrote
on Mar 14
th
, 2010 at 4:29am:
It is far easier to stay alive in the simulated world
Matt
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Reply #11 -
Mar 14
th
, 2010 at 9:30am
Brett_Henderson
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expat wrote
on Mar 14
th
, 2010 at 4:29am:
It is far easier to stay alive in the simulated world
Matt
Hmmm.. considering how unlikely it is that you'd die flying an airplane.. compared to the unhealthy aspect of spending hours in front of a computer.. I'm not so sure about that
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Reply #12 -
Mar 14
th
, 2010 at 9:33am
machineman9
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expat wrote
on Mar 14
th
, 2010 at 4:29am:
It is far easier to stay alive in the simulated world
Matt
Is this the MSFS simulated world, or the
World of Warcraft
simulated world?
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Reply #13 -
Mar 16
th
, 2010 at 5:10pm
elite marksman
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I had the chance to go up in a CAP 182 a few months ago.
From that, I would say that real life is significantly easier than simulated, primarily because you can fell what the aircraft is doing, rather than have to get all your information from a screen.
That has its downsides however, mainly in the form of airsickness...
Only ever been airsick twice. Once in the 182, and once when I was in the back of a C-130 250' off the deck in the mountains around Albuquerque.
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Reply #14 -
Mar 16
th
, 2010 at 5:25pm
DaveSims
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Flying for real is much easier than in the sim. You have the feel of the aircraft, plus the overall view. The only upside to simming, its cheaper, and it won't kill you.
Dave
www.flymcw.com
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