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song writing (Read 2564 times)
Jan 6th, 2010 at 9:30pm

A-10   Offline
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does anyone know how to write a country song? why am I asking... I have the talent to sing but that is just my opinion, no one has really ever heard me sing so this is why I'm asking. Also I like music a lot that's another reason why I'm asking the question (does anyone know how to write a country song)
 

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Reply #1 - Jan 6th, 2010 at 9:39pm

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some posts would be great

would anyone have so much as the slightest clue as of how to start out with writing a song?
 

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Reply #2 - Jan 6th, 2010 at 9:53pm

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hmmm.... this topic is boring because no one is answering
 

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Reply #3 - Jan 6th, 2010 at 9:57pm

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You have to be patient. You didn't even wait half an hour and this is a......strange question that really doesn't ahve a right answer.

Cool

 

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Reply #4 - Jan 6th, 2010 at 9:57pm

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You just have to know the basic themes (Link):

Quote:
Country music revolves around three themes:

    * My girlfriend/man left me
    * I have a gun
    * I am going to shoot my girlfriend/man

Later variations and extensions on the themes have appeared (the government is trying to take my gun, the government arrested me for shooting my girlfriend/man and is how going to execute me and/or take my gun, the government took my girlfriend/man away from me and I've lost my gun, etc.)

Other topics are sometimes woven around this main theme, like:

    * Cowboys are awesome
    * Commies shot my legs off
    * Drinking
    * My woman is too fat
    * Country music is awesome
    * Country music used to be awesome until the commies ruined it and shot my legs off.


It helps to have a dog and a truck in there.
 
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Reply #5 - Jan 6th, 2010 at 10:02pm

B-Valvs   Offline
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WebbPA wrote on Jan 6th, 2010 at 9:57pm:
You just have to know the basic themes (Link):

Quote:
Country music revolves around three themes:

    * My girlfriend/man left me
    * I have a gun
    * I am going to shoot my girlfriend/man

Later variations and extensions on the themes have appeared (the government is trying to take my gun, the government arrested me for shooting my girlfriend/man and is how going to execute me and/or take my gun, the government took my girlfriend/man away from me and I've lost my gun, etc.)

Other topics are sometimes woven around this main theme, like:

    * Cowboys are awesome
    * Commies shot my legs off
    * Drinking
    * My woman is too fat
    * Country music is awesome
    * Country music used to be awesome until the commies ruined it and shot my legs off.


It helps to have a dog and a truck in there.


A truck is required. Also required are worn out jeans, a banjo, a reference to beer, and some type of farm or ranch.

Cool
 

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Reply #6 - Jan 6th, 2010 at 10:28pm

patchz   Offline
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To be the serious side of this discussion, there is no prerequisite, but it is likely most hits did have some of the mentioned topics. I'm sure I could find a vast number of tunes that did not mention any of the above, yet did well.

As to knowing how to, I can't say that I do. But I have written a few. I even sent some to publishers in Nashville a few years ago, but without any luck. I did get some positive feedback from a couple of publishers who said it was not what they were looking for at the time, but to keep sending material. Based on my experiences and knowledge, I would say you almost HAVE to go to Nashville and go door to door. Some people did it for years and never got past the lobby. Due to life, I was unable to continue and lost interest after a while. I still write, but no longer try to get anything published. I do have a couple that I think would do well if recorded by a known or up and coming artist. Having said all that, I have always heard, not that it's true mind you, but "you have to have lived it". My advice to a wannabe songwriter, is to buy a book, tape, or DVD on the subject by someone that has 'made' it. There are several out there. And join NSAI, Nashville Songwriters Association International. I was a member for a couple of years and they offer a lot of free services and put on clinics every year. If someone is serious about it, it is well worth joining. 


NSAI

Edited:
Oops, almost forgot. Their membership has always included a large number of extremely well known songwriters. I think that will attest to the quality of the organizaion.
Cheers  Smiley
 

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Reply #7 - Jan 6th, 2010 at 11:05pm

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The perfect country-western song

Quote:
Well, a friend of mine named Steve Goodman wrote that song
And he told me it was the perfect country-western song
I wrote him back a letter and told him it was NOT the perfect country-western song because he hadn't said anything at all about
mama, or trains, or trucks, or prison, or gettin' drunk.
Well, he sat down and wrote another verse to the song and he sent it to me
And after reading it, I realized that my friend had written the perfect country-western song.
And I felt obliged to include it on this album. The last verse goes like this here:

Well, I was drunk the day my Mom got outta prison.
And I went to pick her up in the rain.
But, before I could get to the station in my pickup truck
She got runned over by a damned old train.
 
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Reply #8 - Jan 7th, 2010 at 4:23am

patchz   Offline
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WebbPA wrote on Jan 6th, 2010 at 11:05pm:
The perfect country-western song

Quote:
Well, a friend of mine named Steve Goodman wrote that song
And he told me it was the perfect country-western song
I wrote him back a letter and told him it was NOT the perfect country-western song because he hadn't said anything at all about
mama, or trains, or trucks, or prison, or gettin' drunk.
Well, he sat down and wrote another verse to the song and he sent it to me
And after reading it, I realized that my friend had written the perfect country-western song.
And I felt obliged to include it on this album. The last verse goes like this here:

Well, I was drunk the day my Mom got outta prison.
And I went to pick her up in the rain.
But, before I could get to the station in my pickup truck
She got runned over by a damned old train.


Dang, I meant to mention that. Oh well, at least you covered it.
 

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Reply #9 - Jan 7th, 2010 at 5:25am

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Country Music.... Shocked....

.....you have to live in the South of the U.S.A. to appreciate it....

..anywhere else, and its a definite no-no!.... Embarrassed...!

...trust me!.... Wink...!

We can soon get fed up with knowing that your Dog has just died, and your Wife has run away....and you are unhappy...Wink...!

Paul....from Bach to Rock..and Bach again... Grin... Grin...!

Some of my Kit...none of which is used to play "Country Music".... Grin....>>>

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Reply #10 - Jan 7th, 2010 at 5:34am

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Nothing wrong with country music. Without it there would be no Rock 'n Roll, no Beatles, no Stones & no rock music as we know it today.

Quote:
does anyone know how to write a country song? why am I asking... I have the talent to sing but that is just my opinion, no one has really ever heard me sing so this is why I'm asking

I don't understand why you need to write it yourself. Most people start off by singing other people's songs. There's literally 1,000s to choose from.
 

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Reply #11 - Jan 7th, 2010 at 5:40am

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Hagar wrote on Jan 7th, 2010 at 5:34am:
Nothing wrong with country music. Without it there would be no Rock 'n Roll, no Beatles, no Stones & no rock music as we know it today.

Quote:
does anyone know how to write a country song? why am I asking... I have the talent to sing but that is just my opinion, no one has really ever heard me sing so this is why I'm asking

I don't understand why you need to write it yourself. Most people start off by singing other people's songs. There's literally 1,000s to choose from.


Doug..

1,000's of Country songs is a 1,000 Country songs too many!...Wink...!

Paul.... Tongue.... Grin...!
 

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Reply #12 - Jan 7th, 2010 at 5:47am

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Well I'm not claiming to be an expert on songwriting, because frankly I'm not. Tongue Grin However, my friend and I are working on a few songs, and we've found that a lot of it is life experience and emotions felt...sometimes it helps to "just write" and see what comes out. Smiley
 

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Reply #13 - Jan 7th, 2010 at 5:47am

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Fozzer wrote on Jan 7th, 2010 at 5:40am:
Hagar wrote on Jan 7th, 2010 at 5:34am:
Nothing wrong with country music. Without it there would be no Rock 'n Roll, no Beatles, no Stones & no rock music as we know it today.

Quote:
does anyone know how to write a country song? why am I asking... I have the talent to sing but that is just my opinion, no one has really ever heard me sing so this is why I'm asking

I don't understand why you need to write it yourself. Most people start off by singing other people's songs. There's literally 1,000s to choose from.


Doug..

1,000's of Country songs is a 1,000 Country songs too many!...Wink...!

Paul.... Tongue.... Grin...!

Most rock music has country roots. I don't believe you never play any country songs. Tongue
 

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Reply #14 - Jan 7th, 2010 at 5:57am

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Hagar wrote on Jan 7th, 2010 at 5:47am:
Fozzer wrote on Jan 7th, 2010 at 5:40am:
Hagar wrote on Jan 7th, 2010 at 5:34am:
Nothing wrong with country music. Without it there would be no Rock 'n Roll, no Beatles, no Stones & no rock music as we know it today.

Quote:
does anyone know how to write a country song? why am I asking... I have the talent to sing but that is just my opinion, no one has really ever heard me sing so this is why I'm asking

I don't understand why you need to write it yourself. Most people start off by singing other people's songs. There's literally 1,000s to choose from.


Doug..

1,000's of Country songs is a 1,000 Country songs too many!...Wink...!

Paul.... Tongue.... Grin...!

Most rock music has country roots. I don't believe you never play any country songs. Tongue


Most of my music I play is based on the sequence of notes written by the Masters...J. S. Bach and his forebears....which is now converted into (Western) Rock Music, etc... Wink...!

Pachebel's "Canon"...."Hotel California"!...Wink...!

Paul..."...you can check out any time...but you can never leave..."... Grin...!

American "Country Songs", I avoid...trust me... Wink.. Wink...!

Including the Cowboy hats the and spurs...and the Yee-Haaa!... Grin...!

..... Grin....!
 

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Reply #15 - Jan 7th, 2010 at 6:10am

Hagar   Offline
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Fozzer wrote on Jan 7th, 2010 at 5:57am:
Most of my music I play is based on the sequence of notes written by the Masters...J. S. Bach and his forebears....which is now converted into (Western) Rock Music, etc... Wink...!

Pachebel's "Canon"...."Hotel California"!...Wink...!

Paul..."...you can check out any time...but you can never leave..."... Grin...!

American "Country Songs", I avoid...trust me... Wink.. Wink...!

Proves my point. The Eagles are a country rock band. Pachebel's "Canon" sounds more like "Streets of London" to me. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ctb-SrwL884
 

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Reply #16 - Jan 7th, 2010 at 6:17am

Fozzer   Offline
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Hagar wrote on Jan 7th, 2010 at 6:10am:
Fozzer wrote on Jan 7th, 2010 at 5:57am:
Most of my music I play is based on the sequence of notes written by the Masters...J. S. Bach and his forebears....which is now converted into (Western) Rock Music, etc... Wink...!

Pachebel's "Canon"...."Hotel California"!...Wink...!

Paul..."...you can check out any time...but you can never leave..."... Grin...!

American "Country Songs", I avoid...trust me... Wink.. Wink...!

Proves my point. The Eagles are a country rock band. Pachebel's "Canon" sounds more like "Streets of London" to me. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ctb-SrwL884


It it is interesting that the Chord sequence used in Pachebel's "Canon" appears in much of today's Western music.....I hear it all the time...the old; "Four beats to the Bar"... Smiley...!

Paul....after me..... Cool...!
 

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Reply #17 - Jan 7th, 2010 at 6:35am

patchz   Offline
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To each his own, but I bet I can find at least ten contemporary country songs in just a few minutes that Paul would like if he actually listened to them. I don't like Opera, Polka, or rap, which I do not even consider music. Although I have heard, unwillingly, a few recent ones that actually have some nice music in them. I just don't like the chants or the usual subject matter. Now Blues, R&B, and Soul, that is horse of a different color entirely.
Hey, there goes Elvis, "Yo King!"  Roll Eyes Grin


betelguise, betelguise, betel.... Smiley
 

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Reply #18 - Jan 7th, 2010 at 6:53am

Hagar   Offline
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In my opinion there is good music & bad music. If you restrict yourself to one style you're missing out on a lot. I never liked the idea of categories or that awful word genres everyone uses nowadays.

PS. I was never a great fan of Elvis Presley but I quite like some of his earlier stuff. A lot of that is pure country.
 

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Reply #19 - Jan 7th, 2010 at 7:05am

Fozzer   Offline
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Hagar wrote on Jan 7th, 2010 at 6:53am:
In my opinion there is good music & bad music. If you restrict yourself to one style you're missing out on a lot. I never liked the idea of categories or that awful word genres everyone uses nowadays.

PS. I was never a great fan of Elvis Presley but I quite like some of his earlier stuff. A lot of that is pure country.


..you are my Hero, Doug!... Smiley...!

Paul...a member of the Homo Sapien genre... Kiss...!
 

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Reply #20 - Jan 7th, 2010 at 8:25am

patchz   Offline
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Hagar wrote on Jan 7th, 2010 at 6:53am:
In my opinion there is good music & bad music. If you restrict yourself to one style you're missing out on a lot. I never liked the idea of categories or that awful word genres everyone uses nowadays.

PS. I was never a great fan of Elvis Presley but I quite like some of his earlier stuff. A lot of that is pure country.


Well said. My 7th, 8th, and 9th grade music teacher would roll over in her grave if she thought I only listened to one type. I went to several Community Concerts, the best of which was Ferrante & Teicher.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferrante_and_Teicher

Earlier, I said what I did not like. I do like quite a bit of classical, pop, 50s, 60s, 70s rock, rock & roll, hard rock, soft rock, R & B, Blues, Soul, Gospel, Praise, quartet, bluegrass, and COUNTRY! Sorry Paul.  Grin
 

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Reply #21 - Jan 7th, 2010 at 10:27am

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Cool topic I'd say.  Yes, be patient, we're all here for you.

Elvis:  A friend of mine just bought his CD sets, 50's, 60's, 70's.  Hearing a lot of tunes I never heard before.  His voice was just the absolute greatest, and very versatile.  The previously unheard stuff covers different styles from country types, rock a billy, gospel, and of course just plain good ol R&R, and he was just sooooo good.  What a great voice.  Some of the recordings were impromptu, that is, it just kind of happened on the spot in the studio. 
 
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Reply #22 - Jan 7th, 2010 at 10:49am

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Oh yeah, back to the topic, how to write a tune.  It does help if you can play either guitar or keyboards, you didn't say.

Tune composition 101:

Lyrics and melody line thereof.  That's what a tune is.  Rhythm is contained within the melody line.  Either the lyrics or the melody line can come first.  They have to be co-ordinated of course, and some adjustments may have to be made to do so, for example, the lyrics usually need to be properly syllabilized to get them 'melody correct', or the melody may have to be adjusted to the lyrics. 

Lyrics are usually easier to compose than melody.  Sit around with a notebook handy, either at work, school, or just watching TV, and jot down lyrics ideas when they come to you.  They can be either complete lines or partials.  You can splice the partials together later.  With computer word processing, this notation and splicing process would be quite easy today.

The melody line is totally another story.  Good luck there.  Exactly how they do it, or how I did it long ago, I really don't know.  It's also difficult to hold an original tune in your head, maybe you could hum it into a recording device of some kind.  I've always marveled at the originality of good tune melodies, whether it be "Danny Boy" or a Black Sabbath tune.

It's just difficult, period, with the main problem being the coordination of lyrics and melody.  And selling country tunes even more so.  Friend of mine wrote a couple a few years ago, hired studio musicians to record them, they were pure country and sounded OK, but couldn't sell them.  The country music industry is more driven by on-going established groups (I think), and there's your main competion.

My composing credentials:  1972, single handedly wrote a 45 minute long rock album (5 tunes only) for my group back then in what could be called the 'British' genre as it was influenced by Jethro Tull and King Crimson.  A most difficult and mentally draining project. 
 
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Reply #23 - Jan 7th, 2010 at 8:17pm

A-10   Offline
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I started a little piece of a song it sounds great in my opinion I just can't think of anymore to add so I need some ideas, I need a beginning though this sounds like a piece right after the beginning this is how it goes...

I got an 8 point buck's head on my living room wall.

that was it.
 

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Reply #24 - Jan 7th, 2010 at 9:22pm

Steve M   Offline
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I got an 8 point bucks head on my living room wall.
My house is on wheels and we're having a ball.
8 point buck.
8 point buck.
I hitched the house to my pickup truck.
I drove away, house and all,
me and my 8 point buck.   Smiley
 

 

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Reply #25 - Jan 7th, 2010 at 9:30pm

ShaneG   Offline
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Steve M wrote on Jan 7th, 2010 at 9:22pm:
I got an 8 point bucks head on my living room wall.
My house is on wheels and we're having a ball.
8 point buck.
8 point buck.
I hitched the house to my pickup truck.
I drove away, house and all,
me and my 8 point buck.   Smiley
 




LMAO!!!  Grin Grin Grin

I know some people that fit that description.  Wink
 
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Reply #26 - Jan 7th, 2010 at 9:33pm

ShaneG   Offline
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Apex wrote on Jan 7th, 2010 at 10:49am:
Lyrics are usually easier to compose than melody.  


I found this step was much easier when I was an angry teenager with a lot to complain about.

The older I get, the less I seem to be angry enough to write about things.

Music on the other hand, flows from me like water.  I have too many songs, and not enough words.  Embarrassed
 
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Reply #27 - Jan 7th, 2010 at 9:34pm

Steve M   Offline
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ShaneG wrote on Jan 7th, 2010 at 9:30pm:
Steve M wrote on Jan 7th, 2010 at 9:22pm:
I got an 8 point bucks head on my living room wall.
My house is on wheels and we're having a ball.
8 point buck.
8 point buck.
I hitched the house to my pickup truck.
I drove away, house and all,
me and my 8 point buck.   Smiley
 




LMAO!!!  Grin Grin Grin

I know some people that fit that description.  Wink



Grin Grin Me to!
 

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Reply #28 - Jan 7th, 2010 at 10:25pm

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I like that addition to the song keep coming up with some ideas.
 

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Reply #29 - Jan 7th, 2010 at 11:29pm

patchz   Offline
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Not to rain on your parade, but there is already a song entitled 30 Point Buck by Bananas At Large. Having said that, remember that there are litteraly thousands of songs that are similar in title, theme, lyrics, and music composition. I don't remember the exact rule, but as to music, I think it says you can't repeat more than 8 bars of an exisiting copywritten song. As to lyrics, I have no idea what the rule is. If you really want to know, go to the Library of Congress online. But be prepared for it to take a while. It is an extremely vast site. The last link is to the copyright office. Click on FAQ under About Copyright to get more info. All material that is registered post 1978 is available online. Here are mine:
http://cocatalog.loc.gov/cgi-bin/Pwebrecon.cgi?Search_Arg=Davis+Larry+T.+&Search...

I never got around to registering all of them. But you do not have to register a song to own the copyright. It is just much better protection if it is registered.

Quote:
Do I have to register with your office to be protected?
No. In general, registration is voluntary. Copyright exists from the moment the work is created. You will have to register, however, if you wish to bring a lawsuit for infringement of a U.S. work. See Circular 1, Copyright Basics, section “Copyright Registration.”


http://www.loc.gov/index.html

http://www.copyright.gov/
 

...
If God intended aircraft engines to have horizontally opposed engines, Pratt and Whitney would have made them that way.
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Reply #30 - Jan 8th, 2010 at 12:14pm

A-10   Offline
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I forgot to mention this but the song has to fit the redneck theme
 

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Reply #31 - Jan 8th, 2010 at 1:22pm

Fozzer   Offline
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A-10 wrote on Jan 8th, 2010 at 12:14pm:
I forgot to mention this but the song has to fit the redneck theme


That clinches it for me!... Shocked....

....I'll get my Coat... Wink...!

Paul.... Grin.... Grin....!

 

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Reply #32 - Jan 8th, 2010 at 7:41pm

A-10   Offline
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Fozzer wrote on Jan 8th, 2010 at 1:22pm:
A-10 wrote on Jan 8th, 2010 at 12:14pm:
I forgot to mention this but the song has to fit the redneck theme


That clinches it for me!... Shocked....

....I'll get my Coat... Wink...!

Paul.... Grin.... Grin....!



what does that mean?
 

Shock Troop, Devil Dog, Blood Sucking War-Machine
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Reply #33 - Jan 9th, 2010 at 5:21am

patchz   Offline
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What, me worry?
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A-10 wrote on Jan 8th, 2010 at 7:41pm:
Fozzer wrote on Jan 8th, 2010 at 1:22pm:
A-10 wrote on Jan 8th, 2010 at 12:14pm:
I forgot to mention this but the song has to fit the redneck theme


That clinches it for me!... Shocked....

....I'll get my Coat... Wink...!

Paul.... Grin.... Grin....!



what does that mean?


Paul doesn't like Country music. But we keep him around anyway.  Grin
 

...
If God intended aircraft engines to have horizontally opposed engines, Pratt and Whitney would have made them that way.
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Reply #34 - Jan 9th, 2010 at 11:32am

A-10   Offline
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okay then, that question was answered
 

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Reply #35 - Jan 15th, 2010 at 10:22pm

A-10   Offline
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more posts other than this would be great mainly because this is the first thread I've made that's been a huge hit.
 

Shock Troop, Devil Dog, Blood Sucking War-Machine
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Reply #36 - Jan 16th, 2010 at 8:51am
tedyflies   Ex Member

 
A-10 wrote on Jan 15th, 2010 at 10:22pm:
more posts other than this would be great mainly because this is the first thread I've made that's been a huge hit.



Constantly asking for replies makes you look like an attention whore.

If anyone has something to add , they will. There is no need to ask for replies.

 
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Reply #37 - Jan 16th, 2010 at 3:15pm

A-10   Offline
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well I don't like topics to die.
 

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Reply #38 - Feb 5th, 2010 at 7:19pm

A-10   Offline
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life is like a pain in the neck
it's kind of like a drunken redneck that don't know how to shut up when he's said to much

              ^
the above | is par of a new song i'm writing.

opinions needed on it
 

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Reply #39 - Feb 6th, 2010 at 10:34am

Apex   Offline
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With all due respect now, OK, no offense meant, just trying to be helpful:

> It's hard to render an opinion on just a line or two.  (For me, any opinion I might personally render could be biased as I took to high level British rock in the good 'ol days and that was my main influence.)

> If you're asking us for lyric ideas, then it's not gonna be all your writing.  But, if you want to maybe spark some ideas, starting reading a lot of country music lyrics.  Some Elvis ain't a bad idea either. 

> It takes a long time to figure out a tune.  Be patient. 

> We don't know your level of musicianship.

> Country music isn't all "redneck".  Don't limit yourself.

> Country music can be somewhat outside the realm of country music and still be country music.

> Not everyone here likes country music. 

> And finally, please go back to my post here and re-read it.  It does contain wise advice.
 
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Reply #40 - Feb 6th, 2010 at 4:42pm

A-10   Offline
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I know it isn't all redneck, I just like the redneck theme, also I'm not sure what type of country George Straight sings.

when you find out let me know.
 

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Reply #41 - Feb 6th, 2010 at 7:36pm

ShaneG   Offline
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A-10 wrote on Feb 6th, 2010 at 4:42pm:
also I'm not sure what type of country George Straight sings.

when you find out let me know.



Is your Google broken?  Huh
 
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Reply #42 - Feb 6th, 2010 at 10:15pm

BSW727   Offline
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Other than writing lyrics do you have any understanding of theory, composition, or meter?

Without at least a fundamental grounding in these concepts I'm afraid your music career will be short lived.

Do you know what a I-IV-V progression is or a VII Vii? 12 bar blues, a turn around or a bridge, etc?

What instruments do you play? Can you record? And I don't mean on a consumer based sound card with one input on one channel with a Radio Shack mic.

I'm afraid I can't add anything to your song, but I think the poster who finished it did a great dity with it. Sounds like something the Yoopers would write.

Do some internet research on song & lyric writing, producing, and recording. There are hundreds of dedicated music boards to peruse as well.

 
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