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Solid State Drive advice (Read 1731 times)
Jan 2
nd
, 2010 at 2:14pm
snippyfsxer
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Colonel
Posts: 404
Hi:
I am always looking for ways to improve performance (especially, but not only fsx) and have been doing some preliminary research into solid state drives. I'm thinking about getting 2 ssds of 60 gigabyte capacity, one for the OS and the other for some games. I am still at the dumb question stage where I don't know what I don't know.
What do I need to be aware of? Will it be a monumental pain in the rear to re-install everything from scratch? Would I be better off leaving the OS on the current 7200rpm drive and just getting one additional 60gb ssd for FSX?
In fact, I'm so clueless that I don't even know if I can fit a 2.5" form factor into a place currently occupied by a 3.5" form factor (adaptors?)!!!
Any pointers, whatsoever would be appreciated by anyone who has anything to add, including recommendations for what brand of ssd. My budget is no more than $500 for this.
Although my machine is powerful and optimized for fsx, I'm running a very high resolution and my performance basically sucks. So basically I'm looking for anything obvious to speed up what can be sped up.
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Reply #1 -
Jan 3
rd
, 2010 at 5:11am
T1MT1M
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Buying a solid state drive will be a massive improvement over mechanical drives. You would be better off buying a single larger drive instead of two smaller ones, the adapter to change from 2.5 to 3.5 costs $15.
Based on your price the best one would be a intel x25-m g2, make sure it is the g2 because the g1 does not keep its performance like the g2 does. It comes in 80 and 160 GB, you would be best putting your OS, applications, and flight sim on it. If there isn't enough space then just put some applications on a different drive.
It is true that the drive will degrade in performance the more you put on it but this will be minimal.
I said that the intel drive would be the best but I am unsure if flight simulator would be reading sequential data and if the difference in read speeds would make a big enough difference. If it would then you should look at the OCZ vertex. But that would be a question to ask someone else because I am unsure.
I got all of this information from anandtech's articles and if you want to know a large amount of what you need to know about solid state drives you should read all of these articles in order from top to bottom (oldest to newest).
http://www.anandtech.com/storage/showdoc.aspx?i=3403
http://www.anandtech.com/storage/showdoc.aspx?i=3531
http://www.anandtech.com/storage/showdoc.aspx?i=3535
http://www.anandtech.com/storage/showdoc.aspx?i=3607
http://www.anandtech.com/storage/showdoc.aspx?i=3608
http://www.anandtech.com/storage/showdoc.aspx?i=3631
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Reply #2 -
Jan 3
rd
, 2010 at 6:38pm
snippyfsxer
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Colonel
Posts: 404
Thanks so much for that info! It has helped a lot!
I'm tending towards the OCZ Vertex because of the sequential write speeds but also, because the firmware now supports the TRIM command and I will concurrently be upgrading to Win 7, which supports it.
One more question:
Am I to gather that I gain NO advantage by having FSX on its own SSD, with the OS on another SSD
(unless I'm running in Raid0 with a hardware controller)???
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Reply #3 -
Jan 3
rd
, 2010 at 11:13pm
richardd43
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Edmonton AB
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Quote:
I'm tending towards the OCZ Vertex because of the sequential write speeds but also, because the firmware now supports the TRIM command and I will concurrently be upgrading to Win 7, which supports it.
I have the OCZ Vertex with W7 but use Garbage Collector in lieu of TRIM because Raid is not supported by trim (yet).
I have never used the Intel SSD so can not say anything about them but I have OCZ, Corsair and Patriot SSDs and prefer the OCZ because of the available support provided.
If you want any info on the Vertex before you make a purchase check out the OCZ forum.
In fact I would recommend browsing all of the SSD forums, is great reading if you want to upgrade
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Reply #4 -
Jan 3
rd
, 2010 at 11:27pm
snippyfsxer
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Colonel
Posts: 404
This may sound like a dumb question, but what is the advantage of using RAID? Wouldn't I have to spend $$ on a hardware controller to plug into a pci-express slot??
If I simply got the SSD 120GB and ran it as the C drive(with OS and games), and used my old platter drive as the D drive, would I be missing out on some serious capability?
richard43:
How is your performance? We would have
roughly
similar systems if I upgrade to an SSD...do you run something like FSX maxxed out??
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Reply #5 -
Jan 4
th
, 2010 at 4:47am
T1MT1M
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Hello!
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Posts: 398
The intel x25-m g2 has trim enabled, personally I wouldn't bother with raid. The thing that makes a solid state drive so good is that it can load things VERY fast compared to normal drives, having your OS on it will make your computer start up very quick in comparison. The idea of having your programs, games and OS on your SSD is that they will be able to load so fast. When I buy my computer with a solid state drive I will be putting all of my programs and OS on it, (not games because I have too many) with the games and storage on different hard disks.
With these drives the random read/write speeds are probably more important than sequential, that's why the intel drives are so good, all of the enthusiasts still get the intel when they buy a top of the range pc. Because FSX isn't all in sequence on the disk for what it needs to read I don't think it is the most important thing you should be looking at.
To answer your question the reason why in the past you would put FSX on a different drive is because the more you put on it, the slower it gets, with these SSD's this is no longer true (there is at maximum still a 5% slow down but with TRIM now here it is minimal). Also the OS will use the ssd to an extent while you are playing FSX and that will detract from the performance that FSX needs, because I am not really all that familiar with how FSX works I can not say for sure but, IMO there will be no advantage to having them on another SSD because the SSD's are so fast anyway.
Also AFAIK there is no system that can play FSX on full settings but I have been out of the loop for a while about that but your system is quite good and it will get as close as you can get.
Just a side note, you no longer have to defragment your drive in case you didn't realise that yourself.
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Reply #6 -
Jan 4
th
, 2010 at 1:47pm
Fozzer
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Colonel
An elderly FS 2004 addict!
Hereford. England. EGBS.
Posts: 24861
...well, from my experience, my Hard Drive only loads the necessary bits of the Flight Sim Program into
MEMORY
when I start the Sim, from where it runs throughout the remainder of Flight.
My flights run from directly from Memory, and only on rare occasions does the Hard Drive kick in for a split second (watching the HDD light) to load a few bits of additional Data into Memory as the flight progresses without interruption.
If the Hard Drive Light is constantly lit, it means you have insufficient Memory installed to cope with the Data required by the program!
Paul...G-BPLF...FS 2004/FSX...FS Navigator...
....!
Dell Dimension 5000 BTX Tower. Win7 Home Edition, 32 Bit. Intel Pentium 4, dual 2.8 GHz. 2.5GB RAM, nVidia GF 9500GT 1GB. SATA 500GB + 80GB. Philips 17" LCD Monitor. Micronet ADSL Modem only. Saitek Cyborg Evo Force. FS 2004 + FSX. Briggs and Stratton Petrol Lawn Mower...Motor Bikes. Gas Cooker... and lots of musical instruments!.... ...!
Yamaha MO6,MM6,DX7,DX11,DX21,DX100,MK100,EMT10,PSR400,PSS780,Roland GW-8L v2,TR505,Casio MT-205,Korg CX3v2 dual manual,+ Leslie 760,M-Audio Prokeys88,KeyRig,Cubase,Keyfax4,Guitars,Orchestral,Baroque,Renaissance,Medieval Instruments.
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Reply #7 -
Jan 4
th
, 2010 at 6:25pm
snippyfsxer
Offline
Colonel
Posts: 404
Fozzer wrote
on Jan 4
th
, 2010 at 1:47pm:
...well, from my experience, my Hard Drive only loads the necessary bits of the Flight Sim Program into
MEMORY
when I start the Sim, from where it runs throughout the remainder of Flight.
My flights run from directly from Memory, and only on rare occasions does the Hard Drive kick in for a split second (watching the HDD light) to load a few bits of additional Data into Memory as the flight progresses without interruption.
If the Hard Drive Light is constantly lit, it means you have insufficient Memory installed to cope with the Data required by the program!
Paul...G-BPLF...FS 2004/FSX...FS Navigator...
....!
I don't know about that...you might be right; But I ran Memtest and was actually astounded at the gazillions of files that are constantly being read from disk by FSX. And in general, the processor is constantly swapping things in and out of memory from disk, or utilizing virtual memory. Basically, I'm looking to just ease the overall burden on the system in general. I admit, I'm ignorant enough of the inner workings that this might not speed me up, or smooth me out at all. I get a lot of stutters, and am not sure whether this is hard drive related or not....so I'll just throw money at the problem
My hopes are that I will see a small increase in my minimum frame rate...planes that hover at an average of 30fps are dipping back and forth to 10 occasionally, especially over mountainous terrain, and ruining the experience. Even if it went from 30 to low-end-stuttering at 15, it would be much improved.
I have a gigantic installation ahead of me, and will report back my experience (if I ever get it to work right again)!
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Reply #8 -
Jan 4
th
, 2010 at 6:37pm
Fozzer
Offline
Colonel
An elderly FS 2004 addict!
Hereford. England. EGBS.
Posts: 24861
I have my Desktop Computer mounted horizontal on my desk in front of me with my Monitor placed on top, and I can see the Hard Drive light from where I am sitting...
..and if that Hard Drive Light is not lighting up, then I know that the hard Drive is not spinning...
...and all the time I am flying in the Sim the Hard Drive Light remains firmly...off....
...which tells me that my Flight Sim is using my Memory to run the Sim....
..and not my Hard Drive...because my Hard Drive Light remains firmly...dark...
...!
The Hard Drive only appears operational (The Light) when I first load up a program (the Flight Sim) into Memory.....then the light goes out...and stops out....)...!
Paul....
...
...!
Dell Dimension 5000 BTX Tower. Win7 Home Edition, 32 Bit. Intel Pentium 4, dual 2.8 GHz. 2.5GB RAM, nVidia GF 9500GT 1GB. SATA 500GB + 80GB. Philips 17" LCD Monitor. Micronet ADSL Modem only. Saitek Cyborg Evo Force. FS 2004 + FSX. Briggs and Stratton Petrol Lawn Mower...Motor Bikes. Gas Cooker... and lots of musical instruments!.... ...!
Yamaha MO6,MM6,DX7,DX11,DX21,DX100,MK100,EMT10,PSR400,PSS780,Roland GW-8L v2,TR505,Casio MT-205,Korg CX3v2 dual manual,+ Leslie 760,M-Audio Prokeys88,KeyRig,Cubase,Keyfax4,Guitars,Orchestral,Baroque,Renaissance,Medieval Instruments.
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Reply #9 -
Jan 4
th
, 2010 at 6:40pm
snippyfsxer
Offline
Colonel
Posts: 404
Ok, then, I guess your computer must be bigger than my computer
I hope you are wrong...the credit card has already been un-sheathed! No seriously, my expectations are not too high for this, and if it doesn't ease the load on the computer, well, then it doesn't. My HDD light blinks all the time even when the computer is sitting at idle, but I admit I haven't paid much attention to what it is doing while I'm playing fs.
I'm not exactly sure how my video mem is being utilized, or how that works. I am running 3 x 24 inch screens in VC, so there is a lot of data that needs to be pushed through.
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Reply #10 -
Jan 4
th
, 2010 at 6:51pm
Fozzer
Offline
Colonel
An elderly FS 2004 addict!
Hereford. England. EGBS.
Posts: 24861
snippyfsxer wrote
on Jan 4
th
, 2010 at 6:40pm:
Ok, then, I guess your computer must be bigger than my computer
I hope you are wrong...the credit card has already been un-sheathed!
I'm not exactly sure how my video mem is being utilized, or how that works. I am running 3 x 24 inch screens in VC, so there is a lot of data that needs to be pushed through.
The little HDD LED Light on the front of my Computer is worth its weight in Gold (and more), as it instantly informs me if my Hard drive is spinning, and loading Data into my Memory ready for use. When the light goes out, the Data has been successfully loaded!...
...!
Paul....A HDD Light Enthusiast....
...!
Processor AMD Socket A 2600 MMX (2.1 GHz), n-Vidia AGP 7800 GS 256 MB, 2 GB DDR RAM, 700W PSU.....and a few bits and bobs...
...!
Frame rate locked at 20 FPS in FS2004 and FSX...
.....smooth...!
«
Last Edit: Jan 5
th
, 2010 at 4:36am by Fozzer
»
Dell Dimension 5000 BTX Tower. Win7 Home Edition, 32 Bit. Intel Pentium 4, dual 2.8 GHz. 2.5GB RAM, nVidia GF 9500GT 1GB. SATA 500GB + 80GB. Philips 17" LCD Monitor. Micronet ADSL Modem only. Saitek Cyborg Evo Force. FS 2004 + FSX. Briggs and Stratton Petrol Lawn Mower...Motor Bikes. Gas Cooker... and lots of musical instruments!.... ...!
Yamaha MO6,MM6,DX7,DX11,DX21,DX100,MK100,EMT10,PSR400,PSS780,Roland GW-8L v2,TR505,Casio MT-205,Korg CX3v2 dual manual,+ Leslie 760,M-Audio Prokeys88,KeyRig,Cubase,Keyfax4,Guitars,Orchestral,Baroque,Renaissance,Medieval Instruments.
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Reply #11 -
Jan 4
th
, 2010 at 8:47pm
snippyfsxer
Offline
Colonel
Posts: 404
Concerning performance increases during actual run time. I re read all those tuning guides from that Nick fellow, and in one of them he points out that the one of the best investments you can make for FSX performance is a WD Velociraptor...by clearing up any latency issues related to large scenery reads. Given that SSDs are much faster than a Velociraptor, I have my fingers crossed that I will see at least some performance increase over and above what I have now...(a Hitachi Deskstar)
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Reply #12 -
Jan 11
th
, 2010 at 12:09am
snippyfsxer
Offline
Colonel
Posts: 404
OK: I couldn't upgrade to Win 7 because my Matrox+Nvidia don't play well together without 182.5 drivers (which I can't get to install in Win 7)
So concerning TRIM...I see that there is the aforementioned Garbage Collector. Does that do the Trim command for Vista 64? How often do I have to run it?
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Reply #13 -
Jan 18
th
, 2010 at 1:52am
snippyfsxer
Offline
Colonel
Posts: 404
Finally back in the saddle again!
Thanks for all the advice guys! I'm back up and running fully with the new Vertex drive. It isn't some massive performance boost, nor did I ever expect it to be. However, everything is crystal clear now, no blurries to be found, and no lag time when transitioning between views. Framerates are the same, maybe a bit better, but smoothness seems to have been enhanced (no 900 fps for me!) It was pricey, but I'm happy. T1M, those links helped a bunch when trying to determine what was right for me. Thanks!
Was that ever a pain in the ass to install all the fsx stuff from scratch and then tweak it, though!
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Reply #14 -
Jan 18
th
, 2010 at 7:39am
Fozzer
Offline
Colonel
An elderly FS 2004 addict!
Hereford. England. EGBS.
Posts: 24861
Snippy....
I'm still baffled by the claim that a fast "Hard Drive" can speed up your game....
...!
I am always under the assumption that the game actually reads the contents of your computer (high speed) "Memory", and not the Hard Drive!
The hard drive only comes into operation when initially loading the Sim into Memory, and on very infrequent occasions when a very small section of updated Data is required to load into Memory, and this occurs whist the Game is running without interruption.
I would have thought that with sufficient computer Memory installed 3+ GB, the Sim should run for 99% of the time without requiring the Hard Drive to come into operation at all?
My method is the close the computer down before loading the Sim, thereby clearing out the computer Memory of any unnecessary Data beforehand.
As I mentioned before, my Hard Drive indicator light is readily visible all the time the Sim is running, and is rarely illuminated, and even then on only for a split second or so, without interrupting the Sim.
Paul...G-BPLF...FS 2004/FSX....FS Navigator.
System: Ancient!
Processor: Socket A, AMD 2600 MMX Thoroughbred, 2.1 GB
Graphics: nVidia AGP 7800GS 256MB.
Computer Memory: 2 GB.
Frame Rate: Locked at 20 FPS.
......smooth....
...!
Dell Dimension 5000 BTX Tower. Win7 Home Edition, 32 Bit. Intel Pentium 4, dual 2.8 GHz. 2.5GB RAM, nVidia GF 9500GT 1GB. SATA 500GB + 80GB. Philips 17" LCD Monitor. Micronet ADSL Modem only. Saitek Cyborg Evo Force. FS 2004 + FSX. Briggs and Stratton Petrol Lawn Mower...Motor Bikes. Gas Cooker... and lots of musical instruments!.... ...!
Yamaha MO6,MM6,DX7,DX11,DX21,DX100,MK100,EMT10,PSR400,PSS780,Roland GW-8L v2,TR505,Casio MT-205,Korg CX3v2 dual manual,+ Leslie 760,M-Audio Prokeys88,KeyRig,Cubase,Keyfax4,Guitars,Orchestral,Baroque,Renaissance,Medieval Instruments.
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Reply #15 -
Jan 18
th
, 2010 at 8:00am
snippyfsxer
Offline
Colonel
Posts: 404
Don't forget that the page file has to be read and written to on the hard disk. Don't think I didn't consider what you have said before and I don't have the knowledge to say otherwise. However, there must be some reason why people are using Velociraptor drives in RAID and I doubt it is just for initial loading times.
Anyway, everything else about the computer is a lot faster including boot times and everything else, so I'm happy. If it helps FSX than that is good too.
I've just done a complete rebuild of everything and have only run my first reinstalled plane last night (the Stratocruiser). It seeeemed to be smoother and the UTX/GEX terrain didn't "block" up when turning my head with the track ir. Keep in mind I'm running 3 widescreen monitors, so to provide on-demand, clear scenery, the SSD might actually help. I think this is more than just a placebo effect. I also might not know what I'm talking about
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Reply #16 -
Jan 19
th
, 2010 at 2:17pm
HarvesteR
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F/A-18 HARV Almost
has my name on it!
Mexico, DF :D
Gender:
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A faster HDD (or SSD for that matter) will not increase the framerate of a game by itself. However, there are several different kinds of poor performance you can have, and a faster drive will help in a lot of these situations.
FSX uses data streaming to provide the continuous world without pausing for loading, this means the initial loading screen is only loading the scenery and other data relevant for your initial position, so it will continue to load as it goes... If your HDD is fragged or has too much stuff on it, (not to mention the added lag from windows and it's swap file), this streaming will be slow and you will have stutters because the HDD will be bottlenecking the whole rig.
A faster drive can open up that bottleneck and will give you not faster framerates, but smoother performance overall.
It's definitely worth it IMO, if I had the money at hand I'd buy one right now
Cheers
NEW PC SPECS: Intel Core i7 920 - 6GB Corsair DDR3 PC12800 RAM- Intel DX58SO Mobo - Geforce GTX 460 768MB GDDR5 - 3x LG1952h LCDs through Matrox's TH2Go - 640GB Seagate Barracuda 7200Rpm - 200GB Maxtor 7200Rpm - Microsoft Sidewinder X6 Keyboard - 5.1 Surround and a Saitek X52 Pro and Pro Flight Rudder Pedals -- Running Windows 7 Ultimate x64
My
8800 GTX
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