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Trim Tutorial (Read 2946 times)
Dec 4
th
, 2009 at 7:36pm
Staiduk
Offline
Colonel
Posts: 1040
Hello - just to let everyone know and not step on anyone's toes (just in case someone else is as well): I'm making up a trim tutorial right now - it seems it might be valuable for sim-pilots who have a less than perfect understanding of trim. I spent some time looking at the trim info in the Learning Center and what M$ laughably calls a 'flight lesson' and quite frankly; I'm not at all surprised sim pilots are so often confused about proper aircraft handling.
I'm
trying
to do it with video; if that fails I'll write it out as a forum topic. Should be up Sunday. (It better be - The Roar of the Rings starts this weekend and I
never
miss Curling finals!
Hope it helps!
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Reply #1 -
Dec 5
th
, 2009 at 1:03am
Mobius
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Colonel
Highest Point in the Lightning
Storm
Wisconsin
Posts: 4369
Sounds like a great idea. Trim seems to be one of those things that people never really realize how important it is.
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Reply #2 -
Dec 5
th
, 2009 at 10:08pm
olderndirt
Offline
Colonel
Flying is PFM
Rochester, WA
Gender:
Posts: 3574
If you or anyone can come up with a fix or better method, I'll worship at your shrine
.
THIS IS NOT A PANAM CLIPPER
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Reply #3 -
Dec 12
th
, 2009 at 7:05pm
machineman9
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Colonel
Nantwich, England
Gender:
Posts: 5255
Trim is something I never quite understood until I did it for real and I could feel what it was supposed to do and how it affects the aircraft. Now, when flying on FS, I can have a good idea of how much trim needs to be applied and it makes flying so much easier. London to Cosford in my DC-3 at 7000ft with only minor changes to trim along the way... Imagine the wrist ache if you had to do that flight or longer ones whilst holding the plane at that height yourself!
I wish you the best on your project, it really is an important skill to learn. It is fairly basic, but helps so much.
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Reply #4 -
Dec 13
th
, 2009 at 9:43pm
Staiduk
Offline
Colonel
Posts: 1040
OK; the trim tutorial is up at SimTeevee - and it only took three bloody hours for it to upload.
It's still 'pending approval' but I haven't got any more time to hang around; night's falling, the temperature's dropping towards -40c fast and I've got a long walk ahead of me. I'll be back tomorrow - I'd appreciate a serious critique of the tute. Go to Sim TV, enter my name in the search feature and you'll find it.
Cheers!
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Reply #5 -
Dec 14
th
, 2009 at 10:55am
olderndirt
Offline
Colonel
Flying is PFM
Rochester, WA
Gender:
Posts: 3574
Excellent. Perhaps 'vertical speed' rather than 'vertical airspeed' and why no use of the attitude indicator? The VSI, especially in flightsim, wouldn't be my first reference. Now, wouldn't it be great if there was a way to define the number of keystrokes or joystick clicks required for each trim exercise?
.
THIS IS NOT A PANAM CLIPPER
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Reply #6 -
Dec 14
th
, 2009 at 3:22pm
Staiduk
Offline
Colonel
Posts: 1040
Glad you like it, Dirt.
I agree - 'vertical speed' is correct and I wish I could change it - for some reason I always get the "bluh-bluh-bluh's" trying to dictate into that stupid little camera and after about a hundred attempts; I wound up saying "ahhhh - good enough!" It wasn't - of course - until I'd compiled the video and deleted all the material (20 bloody gigs of it! Holy snakes!) that I started going "Ummm.... I don't like that..."
There were a couple of spots in there like that.
As for why I didn't use the attitude indicator; it's just how I was trained - establish SLF via outside cues; using the VSI as reference. To be honest, using the attitude indicator wouldn't be
my
first choice; possibly since the aircraft I first got my license on didn't have one at all; or even an artificial horizon.
As for number of clicks on the trim; it flat-out wouldn't work. I adjust all my aircraft so 'Elevator_Trim_Effectiveness' in the .cfg reads 0.25 which gives a much smoother response than stock. Also; the value would change with different conditions - temp., loading, etc. and some - like me when I'm flying the Citabria - have the trim mapped to a lever axis anyway. So overall, I thought it better to trim according to the aircraft's behaviour rather than trying to determine fixed numbers.
Cheers! And thanks again!
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Reply #7 -
Dec 14
th
, 2009 at 10:11pm
olderndirt
Offline
Colonel
Flying is PFM
Rochester, WA
Gender:
Posts: 3574
Staiduk wrote
on Dec 14
th
, 2009 at 3:22pm:
. To be honest, using the attitude indicator wouldn't be
my
first choice; possibly since the aircraft I first got my license on didn't have one at all
Sounds reasonable to me - never had one either. Strictly needle, ball, airspeed and a low freq receiver. Thanks for the .cfg trim tip - I cuss that stupid thing every flight
.
THIS IS NOT A PANAM CLIPPER
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Reply #8 -
Dec 15
th
, 2009 at 7:25am
Brett_Henderson
Offline
Colonel
EVERY OUTER MARKER SHOULD
BE AN NDB
Gender:
Posts: 3593
Wow.. superb tutorial. Thanks for taking the time to put it together..
If a sim-pilot takes the time; to take to heart, the theories and techniques you describe so well.. and practices them until their application becomes second nature.. he'll be well on his way to ANSWERING sim flight training questions..
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Reply #9 -
Dec 15
th
, 2009 at 12:23pm
RickG
Offline
Colonel
I Fly Sim!
Southwest Canada
Gender:
Posts: 245
I have to agree with the others---great tutorial, Staiduk! As you mentioned, a bit long, but I don't think you could have shortened it by much. I took a lot of notes, so now I can refine my technique and trim properly now. Many thanks for your effort. Rick
Win7 Home Premium X64, P55-USB3 mobo, Intel Core i7 860 @ 2.80 ghz, 4gb ram, GeForce GTX 460 FSX Deluxe SP1&2
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Reply #10 -
Dec 15
th
, 2009 at 4:40pm
aeroart
Offline
Colonel
Fly the good-old good
ones: Convairs, DC-6,
Connie
Michigan
Gender:
Posts: 91
How do you get into Sim TV? I Googled it, and got an opening page, but no place to enter a search. Can someone provide a URL? Thanks.
Art
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Reply #11 -
Dec 15
th
, 2009 at 6:59pm
aeroart
Offline
Colonel
Fly the good-old good
ones: Convairs, DC-6,
Connie
Michigan
Gender:
Posts: 91
Never mind. I found it.
Art
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Reply #12 -
Dec 15
th
, 2009 at 8:25pm
olderndirt
Offline
Colonel
Flying is PFM
Rochester, WA
Gender:
Posts: 3574
Staiduk wrote
on Dec 14
th
, 2009 at 3:22pm:
I adjust all my aircraft so 'Elevator_Trim_Effectiveness' in the .cfg reads 0.25 which gives a much smoother response than stock.
Pure excitement! After resetting my trim .cfg to your setting, I fired up the sim, setup for takeoff (same number of trim clicks) and opened the throttle. That sucker came off like a homesick angel and flew right on up into a full power stall. Had to put my beverage down to recover - makes me wonder how I ever survived
.
«
Last Edit: Dec 15
th
, 2009 at 10:17pm by olderndirt
»
THIS IS NOT A PANAM CLIPPER
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Reply #13 -
Dec 16
th
, 2009 at 5:29pm
Staiduk
Offline
Colonel
Posts: 1040
ROFL - alcoholic beverage, by any chance?
Thanks for the kind responses folks; I appreciate it.
Dirt:
Quote:
Sounds reasonable to me - never had one either. Strictly needle, ball, airspeed and a low freq receiver.
You learned on a Cub, right? I envy you - flying's too complicated nowadays. It used to be needle, ball and the rushing wind as your speed gauge; at some point it turned into regulations, air law, log books and certifications. I came in kind of at the end of that old era and miss it dearly.
Rick:
Quote:
I took a lot of notes, so now I can refine my technique and trim properly now.
Glad I could help.
A little bit of knowledge and a lot of practice is all it takes.
I just REALLY wish I could redo that climb-speeds bit - it's astonishing how bad you can describe something at three in the morning.
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Reply #14 -
Dec 16
th
, 2009 at 6:40pm
olderndirt
Offline
Colonel
Flying is PFM
Rochester, WA
Gender:
Posts: 3574
Staiduk wrote
on Dec 16
th
, 2009 at 5:29pm:
I just REALLY wish I could redo that climb-speeds bit - it's astonishing how bad you can describe something at three in the morning.
It's great - hindsight is often more of a hindrance.
THIS IS NOT A PANAM CLIPPER
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