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Is there a model in FS that can be spun? (Read 708 times)

Dec 2^nd, 2009 at 2:07am

HSUred Offline
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Posts: 26

Iv'e tried it with several but can only simulate a spin by pushing the nose down and holding full aileron and rudder, really just a tight turning dive.

Does anyone know of any aircraft in FS9 that is spinnable?

It didn't surprise me that the Cessna 172 couldn't be spun--have a difficult enough time just trying to get the real thing to enter a spin when I'm training CFI applicants! Grin

Grin

. However, I thought surely there must be something in FS9 that could be spun. No joy, so far.

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Reply #1 - Dec 2^nd, 2009 at 2:13am

Crash Ex Member

Yes there are several that can be spun The RealAir Cessna 172 is one of them. Here it is...

Carlo Wink

Wink

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Reply #2 - Dec 2^nd, 2009 at 3:40am

ozzy72 Offline
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The first truly spinable aircraft was an FS2k2 Valmet, it works okay in FS9 http://www.simviation.com/simviation/static.php?ID=73&page=56

There are two types of aeroplane, Spitfires and everything else that wishes it was a Spitfire!

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Reply #3 - Dec 2^nd, 2009 at 2:15pm

Fozzer Offline
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ozzy72 wrote on Dec 2^nd, 2009 at 3:40am:

The first truly spinable aircraft was an FS2k2 Valmet, it works okay in FS9 http://www.simviation.com/simviation/static.php?ID=73&page=56

Ta, Mark...!

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Reply #4 - Dec 2^nd, 2009 at 6:54pm

olderndirt Offline
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HSUred wrote on Dec 2^nd, 2009 at 2:07am:

can only simulate a spin by pushing the nose down and holding full aileron and rudder, really just a tight turning dive.

How about holding the nose UP - getting as vertical as possible with power. When it breaks, stand on the rudder - help it with aileron. In flightsim the twist grip can't do it but perhaps with pedals?

THIS IS NOT A PANAM CLIPPER

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Reply #5 - Dec 2^nd, 2009 at 8:06pm

Hagar Offline
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olderndirt wrote on Dec 2^nd, 2009 at 6:54pm:

HSUred wrote on Dec 2^nd, 2009 at 2:07am:

can only simulate a spin by pushing the nose down and holding full aileron and rudder, really just a tight turning dive.

How about holding the nose UP - getting as vertical as possible with power. When it breaks, stand on the rudder - help it with aileron. In flightsim the twist grip can't do it but perhaps with pedals?

In my experience the FS flight model was never realistic regarding spins. (This might have been fixed in FSX.) A few 3rd party aircraft have been released that claim to have overcome this problem but I've not tried them. The Valmet that Mark suggested is one of them.

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Reply #6 - Dec 2^nd, 2009 at 10:16pm

skoker Offline
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Any plane can be spun if you turn up the

[flight_tuning]
...
rudder_effectiveness = 1.0
...

and set it to

[flight_tuning]
...
rudder_effectiveness = 1000.0
...

Good luck taxiing though! Grin

Grin

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Reply #7 - Dec 3^rd, 2009 at 2:41am

HSUred Offline
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Posts: 26

olderndirt wrote on Dec 2^nd, 2009 at 6:54pm:

HSUred wrote on Dec 2^nd, 2009 at 2:07am:

can only simulate a spin by pushing the nose down and holding full aileron and rudder, really just a tight turning dive.

How about holding the nose UP - getting as vertical as possible with power. When it breaks, stand on the rudder - help it with aileron. In flightsim the twist grip can't do it but perhaps with pedals?

Great answers, thanks all. Getting ready to try some.

Expanding on what Olderndirt said, here's a few additional actions I tried that seem to have come close (considering I was trying the Cessna 172 again...): I pitched vertical with full power, stalled it in a tail slide while applying full rudder, tossed in full opposite aileron, then pulled the throttle to idle when the nose dropped. Here's the part that takes some patience--it recovers from that first stall every time but if you pull it back up to the vertical one more time then it seems to spin in the stalled condition like it should. You still have to hold the ailerons fully opposite to the rudder until you're ready to recover.

It's funny how it always recovers from that first spin entry no matter what I do; it took me a while to see that a secondary stall with fully crossed controls is what's needed.

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Reply #8 - Dec 3^rd, 2009 at 4:30am

Hagar Offline
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Quote:

Expanding on what Olderndirt said, here's a few additional actions I tried that seem to have come close (considering I was trying the Cessna 172 again...): I pitched vertical with full power, stalled it in a tail slide while applying full rudder, tossed in full opposite aileron, then pulled the throttle to idle when the nose dropped. Here's the part that takes some patience--it recovers from that first stall every time but if you pull it back up to the vertical one more time then it seems to spin in the stalled condition like it should. You still have to hold the ailerons fully opposite to the rudder until you're ready to recover.

It's funny how it always recovers from that first spin entry no matter what I do; it took me a while to see that a secondary stall with fully crossed controls is what's needed.

Not sure I see the point of all that. For anyone using FS as a training aid it's definitely not 'As Real as it Gets'.

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Reply #9 - Dec 3^rd, 2009 at 10:18am

olderndirt Offline
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Hagar wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2009 at 4:30am:

Not sure I see the point of all that. For anyone using FS as a training aid it's definitely not 'As Real as it Gets'.

No argument here. Intentional spins in Flightsim may be fun to attempt but, when you fail in the attempt or, especially, to recover, keep in mind 'real life' offers few, if any, second chances.

THIS IS NOT A PANAM CLIPPER

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Reply #10 - Dec 3^rd, 2009 at 2:30pm

Crash Ex Member

I've got a question. In real life, what will cause a plane (for example a Cessna 172) to spin? I can imagine that if you give it full rudder during flight it will turn but why should I do that?

Carlo Wink

Wink

(so much question, such a little brain to remember the answers)

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Reply #11 - Dec 3^rd, 2009 at 7:07pm

Romflyer Offline
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Hello!
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Quote:

I've got a question. In real life, what will cause a plane (for example a Cessna 172) to spin? I can imagine that if you give it full rudder during flight it will turn but why should I do that?

Carlo Wink

Wink

(so much question, such a little brain to remember the answers)

buy definition a spin is a stall that is aggrivated by yaw, the only reason (other than fun Wink

Wink

) to do a spin is to understand how to recover from one.....the concern is that if you dont take corrective action from a stall it can quickly turn into a spin.

As for planes in FS that can be spun, as mentioned earlier the realair c172 is a good choice, or Long Island Classics have both the Christen Eagle http://www.simviation.com/fs2004props77.htm or the Aeronca Champ http://www.simviation.com/fs2004props94.htm , and of course there is always the amasing little french C150 http://www.fs-tutorials.com/en/down_planes.php

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Reply #12 - Dec 3^rd, 2009 at 7:32pm

Hagar Offline
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One of the main causes of an unintentional spin is wing-drop during a stall. If this is not corrected it can soon develop into a spin. This is not likely in an aircraft like the Cessna 172 which has very gentle stall characteristics. http://www.172guide.com/library/172IR-108.pdf

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Reply #13 - Dec 3^rd, 2009 at 8:03pm

JoBee Offline
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Hagar wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2009 at 7:32pm:

One of the main causes of an unintentional spin is wing-drop during a stall.

And one of the most common times for this to happen unintentionally is when the pilot lets the plane get too slow during the base-to-final turn. Usually with bad results due to the unforgiving nature that terra firma has on aluminum.

cheers,
Joe

Don't argue with idiots, they drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

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Reply #14 - Dec 3^rd, 2009 at 9:51pm

HSUred Offline
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Posts: 26

Hagar wrote on Dec 3^rd, 2009 at 4:30am:

Quote:

Expanding on what Olderndirt said, here's a few additional actions I tried that seem to have come close (considering I was trying the Cessna 172 again...): I pitched vertical with full power, stalled it in a tail slide while applying full rudder, tossed in full opposite aileron, then pulled the throttle to idle when the nose dropped. Here's the part that takes some patience--it recovers from that first stall every time but if you pull it back up to the vertical one more time then it seems to spin in the stalled condition like it should. You still have to hold the ailerons fully opposite to the rudder until you're ready to recover.

It's funny how it always recovers from that first spin entry no matter what I do; it took me a while to see that a secondary stall with fully crossed controls is what's needed.

Not sure I see the point of all that. For anyone using FS as a training aid it's definitely not 'As Real as it Gets'.

Just enjoying a technical challenge and enjoying sharing it, that's all. I assure you I wouldn't try to get realistic training out of FS. Guess I just have strange ideas of what's fun. Cheesy

Cheesy

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Reply #15 - Dec 3^rd, 2009 at 10:12pm

olderndirt Offline
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Some planes spin more easily than others and, of these, a C172 is not one - very docile. Some spins occur at a very awkward time. In Alaska, moose spotting is becoming a lost art since the law states you can't shoot the same day you fly. Back in the 'good old days' that wasn't the law so lots of Cub drivers could be found in maximum effort sixty some banked turns, full throttle, looking at a moose usually around 600 AGL. Of course in a super steep turn, if you applied rudder to center the ball, you'd probably roll upside down so here's a pilot all wound up like a dollar watch in what is essentially a slipping turn. A Cub will put up with this for only so long then SNAP, over the top with 600 ft to recover. A quarter turn spin brings you to the point of impact - not a pleasant sight.

THIS IS NOT A PANAM CLIPPER

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Reply #16 - Dec 4^th, 2009 at 1:54pm

EVVFCX Offline
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most of it.
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Hi all,

Regarding the 'snap' I have had to deliberatley do it in training many years ago in a glider.

For those who want to know what happens I'll try and explain but basically it happens because right rudder for example is used on a steep bank to the left or vica versa.

Think about it: guess many have seen aircraft doing stunts with 90deg of bank and staying level height: the tailplane and rudder have become a small wing giving some lift, the rest is taken care of just with lots of power ( sorry I digress).

Ok, you have steep bank turn and you kick in opposite Rudder, (because of the bank the tail plane and rudder have become partial tail wing and rudder and you have reduced lift), the tail goes down, you lower wing accelerates, gives you more lift than your higher wing which has now retarded and you flip over, completely in the opposite direction to that you was turning- not good thing if you wasn't expecting it and a no no to do at low altitude.

Whether it works in fs9 etc I don't know - yet:)

regards

Steve

May the Mynd be with you.
So far my number of landings either passenger or pilot equal my number of takeoffs, but that is due to change

13/07/11 Passed BMFA Fixed Wing 'A' test.
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