we have a guy on the field who sells these light sport CTLS aircraft.

They are great little airplanes, fun to fly, but in hind sight im glad i never got one.

like Brett said... very few insurance companies will touch one, but he has sold two now to zero hour guys who have gone through sport pilot training, and found a couple of insurance companies who will... for about 4K a year.

their "mission scope"?

"pilot A" plans to use his to survey damage along the coast after hurricanes... he is in the business of making those repairs. he understands the difference between the PPL and the SPL but didnt care. All he wanted o do was leave his ranch which has enough land for a grass strip... fly an hour or so to the coast, survey the damage and maybe have his colleague take photos.

as long as the expenses of the flight are out of his pocket and are not counted as a deduction on his business... he is within the limitation of not flying in furtherance of a business.

"Pilot B" is simply an old man who missed the boat on getting a license. he is a 65 year old widower who also has a large ranch in the middle of nowhere with an unused grass strip on it. he plans to rehabilitate the grass strip, and use the airplane to fly around his central Texas ranch to keep an eye on his cattle.

about the safety of the sport pilot license... there is an instructor on the field who does sport training. his motto "flying is only as safe as the person holding the yoke" and for this reason he explains to students who intend to get a sport pilot license that they should expect to spend 45-55 hours getting the license despite the fact that 20 is the minimum.

the safety discussion i guess for some reason revolves around the training minimum of 20 hours.

its an unrealistic minimum, and unless you KNOW you cant get a medical for some benign reason you may as well get a PPL as you are going to train for that length of time anyway

... and in my opinion, just about any sport pilot applicant at check ride time, who has been training for 40 - 50 hours is going to be equally prepared for a check ride as a private pilot.

   Very good words of advice and wisdom Gents.

   I like the I'M SAFE acronym - that's really cool. And, it actually follows the same line of thinking in SCUBA, jumping, shooting/hand loading, motorcycle riding (some riders anyway), etc... I'm going to print that out and add that to my list of acronyms and checklists. I wish I could post that at all stop lights for the idiot drivers to read, but, they're usually too busy talking on their cell phones, doing their homework, etc... Or they just don't know how to read. 

   Brett, I just went through that with SCUBA this past year and motorcycle riding about 4 years ago. And, I really only have a few more jumps left in me. D@mn! I think I might be growing up SHhhh!!! Don't tell my Mom I said that

   Here's a kinda sad but true personal story. I had turned 20 years old right before we shipped back from the Middle East. Although I felt like I was 120 years old, I stayed in the reserves for 4 more years and worked for the Postal Service as my "day job". (Fast-forward a bit) One day I was on a Marines-only website (young, old, war or peace time) where a thread came up posing the question "what would you do if you found out that you only had 24 hours more to live?" (We often speak about killing and death as if we were deciding what to have for lunch.) Well, a bunch of young bucks chimed in with "I'd hurry up and do 'this' and 'that'". And without realizing what I was typing at the time, my response was "I have done everything I ever wanted to do. If I died today, I will have lived a full life." -and I wasn't kidding, I'd made it into and out of a combat zone (and got more than I bargained for), jumped, dove, rode a motorcycle across the country a couple of times, got a few short flying hours, owned two homes, sport cars, worked 80-100 hour weeks for months on end, lost it all, and started all over again. Now here's the sad part, I was 28 years old when I typed that response. It took me about 3 years before I realized what I had typed, and it was the first jolt that made me realize that I might want to slow down bit before I either hit a brick wall or ride off the side of a cliff. Sometimes getting out of the pressure cooker and relaxing isn't such bad thing. I remember that most every response to the question after my post was by the more seasoned folks who spoke of hugging their kids and loved ones and those types of answers. So, I can recognize and appreciate words of wisdom. Thanks Gents... 

Semper Fi, Dave

   I wanted to address several points that Roddy brought up, but I wanted to "digest" the IMSAFE checklist - that's the most well thought out and well written personal awareness checklist I have in my pile. I can probably get rid of most of the other checklists and just use IMSAFE.

   I can tell you've done your homework on PTSD, and I appreciate the effort in understanding the true issues involved. One of things you stated about being 100% focused and having total situational awareness and fatigue ring very true with me.

  The first mindsets instilled from bootcamp on, is "attention to detail". Further training forces one to keep "attention to detail" going full blast  while keeping "total situational awareness". One of our Gunnies would tell us "ignorance WILL get you killed in combat" on a regular basis. I still smile when I hear that. I guess the civilian version of that would be "the devil is in the details".

  Here's the part of our training that becomes a two-edged sword. We're prodded and harassed until we're way beyond "out of fuel" through sleep deprivation, cold, wet, hunger, hot, over-burdened with gear, etc. While this going on, attention to detail and situational awareness are still being pointed out to us and we get to suffer for our lack of it, by more harassment. Then we are placed in a simulated combat situation where seconds count, situational awareness counts and attention to detail counts. Then the instructors point out ALL of the deficiencies that could have gotten someone, or all of us killed. And basically, it was a never ending cycle - for my unit anyway. Every member of the squad/platoon was expected to perform at or beyond the 100% level.

  In my earlier years of returning, I figured out very quickly that if I did not focus 100% on the task at hand, in other words, at only 99.99% effort, the "demons", "ghosts of war" or whatever they're called, would overcome me (anger, violencebelittlement, sick sarcasm, etc.). That ".01%" loss of focus would cost me hell, and that ".01%" would include any rest, relaxation of any sort, and sleep - I came to considered those "activities" as laziness. Although I knew the human body could only do and take so much, fatigue and weariness was a much cheaper to pay and stay focused on "whatever" then to face "hell".

  It's said that "time heals all wounds", and I've found that to be more and more true the last 2-3 years. but in the transition I found that (I'll use SCUBA as an example) being a divemaster was more of a pita, dealing with (unfocused/uncaring/uninterested) students, but I was perfectly fine challenging myself with more complex diving and dive equipment (tech, cave, rebreather dives) kept the focus, attention to detail and situational awareness at, or above 100% from myself, personally, and with each member of the dive team.

  As far as work is concerned, my co-workers never could quite figure me out, but my supervisors loved me. I could take a "mission" that would normally call for 2-3 employees and twice the time and effort to do and I'd figure out the most sensable, most non-complex way of doing it in moments, do the task by myself and still do it in half the time.

  Over 15+ years as I worked, I slowly figured out that while I was working, my co-workers and managers were growing more and more lazy and I began to recieve more and more tasks while the rest of the team was napping more and more, and taking longer and longer "coffee breaks".

  The defining moment for me came when a supervisor told me point-blank in front of a freshly napped co-worker that "it was much easier for us (management) to give the work to you than it is for us to get people like 'him' to do it". At that point I knew that no form of motivation or harassment would change things for my co-workers or managers - I could no longer focus 10% at work, much less 100% - and that's when I had to raise my hand and ask for help... And, (un)fortunately, that is how I earned the my label of "broken, unservicable, no longer useful piece of equipment" - disabled.    

  On the brighter side of things, I have gotten help and treatment, and even more importantly I have faced and dealt with most of the "bigger, stronger 'demons'", which "grants me the 'permission'" to rest, relax and even sleep well most nights.  

  The reason for telling my story is because, quite a few Vietnam Veterans opened up and told me their stories as I worked. I never focused on what they were saying, but I was listening and sometimes I read their stories. The stories were never really about bravado, they were more of, "this is what I did to stay sane in the insanity" or "this what I did to overcome insanity". So, hopefully my story can/will help some of the newer Vets coming home these days.

Semper Fi, Dave

  Yeah, I was wrong about the C 152 RG, they have a fixed gear 152. They have a 172 RG (I've never heard of one those either). I think you can click the link to their website and take a look. Their simulator looks nice - I priced one out simular to theirs for a C 172 - $30K  

  It's interesting that you brought up gliding also. I've never had a direct interest in gliding, but I found out recently that the Diamond Katanas that I like to "fly" are actually glider trainers of sorts. I recently bought Aerosoft's Diamond DA 20 80/100 Katana set. I got into a conversation with a member over on their forum, about how I had to really turn up the engine volume in the sound.cfg. It turns out, he's flown them before and he gave me a pretty good education about the little aircraft. He described how quiet it really is in the cockpit, and that the sound levels were actually pretty close to the real aircraft. He said that the sim aircraft really "flies" pretty close to real aircraft also.

  I took a cursory look at the Houston, New Orleans and south Memphis sectional charts and yeilded only two places that have gliders. There's a glider club and area northwest of Houston (just outside of the Houston TAC coverage) and, surprizing to me, is there is one northwest of Pensacola, Florida. I find it surprizing for two reasons. First, it's in close proximity to a major NAS, and within, or surrounded by Alert, MOAs and Restricted Areas along with a host other major military installations. And secondly, because it's in such close proximity to the gulf coast, it does yield a strong steady wind (usually from the south or the east), but thermals and updrafts along this area usually mean lightning and thunderstorms are forming - and they form real quick. I'll admit that my sectionals are 6-12 months old (I just use them for simming) and that I probably don't have a full enough aeronautical weather knowledge under my belt to be making too authoritative comments, but I've lived on the coast for long enough that I have an idea of usual weather patterns.

  Anyway, a Diamond is an airplane and a glider   Hmmm... tempting...  

Semper Fi, Dave

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29440505

Since this was in EG 7s area thought I'd check and make sure it wasn't him. 

As for gliding, I don't know how much there still is, but there used to be a group in Poplarville, MS that flew gliders occasionally, I don't know if there are still there.

Wow, what a good discussion.

First, EG 7, I'd like to thank you for your service. My hat is off to you and all those that put their lives on the line for our nation. You guys are amazing!

Second, I will agree with Brett's post. If you're medically unfit to get a real PPL, there's no point pursing a Sport pilot shortcut.

Third, your condition is likely not permanent, right? Focus on your health first, and take care of that! Flying for fun is merely recreation that will cost a lot of money and induce risk into your life.

I went to school to get my PPL, got my Instrument rating and several instructor ratings, but gave it up for money reasons. I've also given up most of my golfing for money reasons as well. It's all about life choices, priorities, and stuff. I have nine childred, and they're WAY more important to me than my selfish desire to golf or fly.

That's why I have spent lots of money on a good computer, simulator, yoke & pedals, etc. so I can fly. I've also bought a Wii so I can play some realistic golf without spending the family into the poor house.

If you choose flying as a serious life-long recreational passion, all your priorities will come into line, starting with your health. Get that handled and the rest will come. Good luck, sir!

Ravang wrote on Jul 9^th, 2009 at 3:41pm:


It also depends on the surgeon.  We have two in the area, one who firmly believes in the failure rate, and another that is a pilot and understands what that means to many people, and what would actually be disqualifing.  I'm betting most here can figure out which one is busier.