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747-200 and A380-800 capacity (Read 2216 times)

Jan 14^th, 2009 at 11:07am

chornedsnorkack Offline
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How much usable floor area does a Boeing 747-200 (VC-25/E-4B) have? And how does A380-800 compare against this?

Roughly how are the usable spaces of VC-25 and E-4B divided? I mean, the basic layout of both is public domain, and there should be a rough idea of the numbers.

E-4B layout:
http://www.flightglobal.com/airspace/photos/militaryaviation1946-2006cutaways/im...

Parts of the interior are similar. Both VC-25 and E-4B have principal´s bedroom in the nosecone and office/council rooms nearby. However, other parts are different. E-4B-s have large communications and command rooms taking up most of the rear of the main deck; VC-25s have a small communication room on the upper deck, and most of the rear main deck is given to guests/press/publicity.

An Airbus 380-800 is not the size of two 747-s. But seeing how a large part of VC-25 and E-4B interior and functionality matches, would it be feasible to furnish an A380-800 with the entire functionality of both VC-25 and E-4B?

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Reply #1 - Jan 14^th, 2009 at 11:55am

Brett_Henderson Offline
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Sounds feasible to me.. But I don't think they'd want to drag national emergency communication and control hardware around on every junket, campaign, public relations, political and and "appearance" flight. Like.. would you want the E-4B systems parked somewhere in the Middle East while the President is attending a funeral or something ?

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Reply #2 - Jan 14^th, 2009 at 12:09pm

Mictheslik Offline
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And would the American military buy an airbus product *cough*KC-X*cough*....perhaps not Tongue

Tongue

.mic

[center]

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Reply #3 - Jan 14^th, 2009 at 12:54pm

C Offline
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Mictheslik wrote on Jan 14^th, 2009 at 12:09pm:

And would the American military buy an airbus product *cough*KC-X*cough*....perhaps not Tongue

Tongue

.mic

What are you trying to say? Wink

Wink

History proves they'll buy (makes a change, we like to lease things over here, as we're daft) the best kit for the job - just look at the US-101, and as you said, KC-X... Wink

Wink

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Reply #4 - Jan 14^th, 2009 at 1:36pm

pepper_airborne Offline
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I think they should go with a 707 Tongue

Tongue

. Atleast it looks sleak and majestic!

http://white-line.org/&&;

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Reply #5 - Jan 14^th, 2009 at 9:14pm

specter177 Offline
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Brett_Henderson wrote on Jan 14^th, 2009 at 11:55am:

Sounds feasible to me.. But I don't think they'd want to drag national emergency communication and control hardware around on every junket, campaign, public relations, political and and "appearance" flight. Like.. would you want the E-4B systems parked somewhere in the Middle East while the President is attending a funeral or something ?

Actually, they do drag a E4 around every time the president goes overseas.

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Reply #6 - Jan 15^th, 2009 at 4:18am

C Offline
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Brett_Henderson wrote on Jan 14^th, 2009 at 11:55am:

. Like.. would you want the E-4B systems parked somewhere in the Middle East while the President is attending a funeral or something ?

I'm fairly sure it'd be parked in a secure location, and there's only a couple of huge USAF bases in the middle east. Wink

Wink

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Reply #7 - Jan 15^th, 2009 at 6:01am

Brett_Henderson Offline
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Quote:

I'm fairly sure it'd be parked in a secure location, and there's only a couple of huge USAF bases in the middle east.

That's why this is a bad idea.. We can't have THE E-4B going everywhwere that the President would go. Secure base or not. We can't have THE command and control platform hopping around the globe.

Wink

Wink

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Reply #8 - Jan 15^th, 2009 at 6:39am

An-225 Ex Member

Well, to add my two cents, and to highlight what I think Brett is getting at...

...I belive such a platform would cost far too much to be viable. The beauty of the VC-25 is that it is furbished mainly for its role of carrying the president. With some satellite communications. The airframe is relatively cheap.

The beauty of the E-4B, is that it has a dedicated purpose of being the doomsday airplane. Radiation filters, hi-band satellite antenna etc. There is a relatively high need for multiple aircraft too.

ONE A380 costs around 317 MILLION USD. An A380 without a comms suite, and other military requirements.

One E-4B costs about 200 million.

One VC-25 costs 325 million.

These two Boeing aircraft have different roles and are therefore required in different numbers.

Buying two A380s and refurbishing them as a cross between the VC-25 and the E-4B would be too expensive.

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Reply #9 - Jan 15^th, 2009 at 7:25am

C Offline
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Brett_Henderson wrote on Jan 15^th, 2009 at 6:01am:

We can't have THE command and control platform hopping around the globe.

Wink

Wink

Never seen one of the hop. I thought they flew? Wink

Wink

Grin

Grin

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Reply #10 - Jan 15^th, 2009 at 12:17pm

chornedsnorkack Offline
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Quote:

Well, to add my two cents, and to highlight what I think Brett is getting at...

...I belive such a platform would cost far too much to be viable. The beauty of the VC-25 is that it is furbished mainly for its role of carrying the president. With some satellite communications. The airframe is relatively cheap.

The beauty of the E-4B, is that it has a dedicated purpose of being the doomsday airplane. Radiation filters, hi-band satellite antenna etc. There is a relatively high need for multiple aircraft too.

ONE A380 costs around 317 MILLION USD. An A380 without a comms suite, and other military requirements.

One E-4B costs about 200 million.

One VC-25 costs 325 million.

Priced when?

Without comms suite and other military requirements, a VC-25 is a standard green 747-200. E-4B ditto. B747-200 is not for sale now, it is out of production. A green B747-800 is about US$ 250 millions or so. Fitting it out extra with comms suite would cost a lot on top of that.
Quote:

Buying two A380s and refurbishing them as a cross between the VC-25 and the E-4B would be too expensive.

US AF is asking for 3 planes, to be delivered in 2017, 2019 and 2021. And they are considering A380 as option.

If they use this only to replace VC-25, they are spending huge sums to replace two VC-25 747-s with 3 A380-s that are VC-25 plus a lot of unused space, and they still have to be trailed by the then very old E-4B-s. If they equipped that excess space of those three A380-s with the E-4B functionality, they could ground most of the 4 E-4B-s and achieve savings thereby.

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Reply #11 - Jan 15^th, 2009 at 2:20pm

Anxyous Offline
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Slightly unrelated, but I could see why the president would use an A380. He's the most powerful man in the world, having the largest plane as well works as a symbol. He couldn't fly all over in a C172, now could he? Cheesy

Cheesy

&&&&

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Reply #12 - Jan 16^th, 2009 at 11:08am

OVERLORD_CHRIS Offline
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Mictheslik wrote on Jan 14^th, 2009 at 12:09pm:

And would the American military buy an airbus product *cough*KC-X*cough*....perhaps not Tongue

Tongue

.mic

Yes the MILITARY would......Congress however will not Sad

Sad

specter177 wrote on Jan 14^th, 2009 at 9:14pm:

Actually, they do drag a E4 around every time the president goes overseas.

Ditto

Brett_Henderson wrote on Jan 15^th, 2009 at 6:01am:

That's why this is a bad idea.. We can't have THE E-4B going every whwere that the President would go. Secure base or not. We can't have THE command and control platform hopping around the globe.
Wink

Wink

Like what was said, yes the E-4 goes with the President every where. It shadows the President ever place he goes when he leaves United States Air Space, encluding the back up VC-25. The plane itself keeps a low profile for it's size and nature.

Kuwait City:
http://www.simviation.com/yabbuploads/E-4B%2047B.jpg
http://www.simviation.com/yabbuploads/E-4B%2048B.jpg

http://www.flightlevel350.com/Aircraft_Boeing_VC-25A-Airline_USA_-_Air_Force_Avi...

But for the question at hand, with today's computers being 10-times faster then what they were in the late 70's-early 80's, not to mention smaller too with flat screens, you can use the 747-400 or 800 airframe and still maximize space, while retaining the ability to use current facilities. If any thing the French President should have an Vip-A380.

Oh and you should look to see if you can find the lay out of JASDF 747-400 used for the Emperor & Prime Minister. They may have a completely different lay out.

http://www.simviation.com/yabbuploads/747-400JSDF%202B.jpg
http://www.flightlevel350.com/Aircraft_Boeing_747-400-Airline_Japan_-_Air_Force_...

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Reply #13 - Jan 16^th, 2009 at 11:45am

chornedsnorkack Offline
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OVERLORD_CHRIS wrote on Jan 16^th, 2009 at 11:08am:

But for the question at hand, with today's computers being 10-times faster then what they were in the late 70's-early 80's, not to mention smaller too with flat screens,

This is a flagrant violation of Moore´s law.

But while the computers are faster and screens smaller, brains have not got any faster nor bellies flatter.

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Reply #14 - Jan 16^th, 2009 at 12:50pm

OVERLORD_CHRIS Offline
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chornedsnorkack wrote on Jan 16^th, 2009 at 11:45am:

This is a flagrant violation of Moore´s law.

But while the computers are faster and screens smaller, brains have not got any faster nor bellies flatter.

Better computers=fatter lazier people to run them? Good point, then the 4 Planes needs for a command post/vip transport are: AN-225, AN-124, A380, and C-5M. Grin

Grin

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Reply #15 - Jan 16^th, 2009 at 11:20pm

An-225 Ex Member

Also, don't forget that the 747 is an iconic airplane. Thats not to say the A380 isn't, but when you look at the 747, you know it was made in the USA. The 747 is symbolic in this sense, and that also aids its continual use as a VIP transport.

Yes, yes, I know about the VH-71 Kestrel. But that thing isn't going on tour everywhere the president goes. Really, its main purpose is to pick up the president from the White House lawn, and take him to Andrews.

In some circumstances, it may be lifted by...C-17...when required, but that doesn't have the impact of watching a VC-25, complete with the American flag and United States of America written on the side, land in your country.

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Reply #16 - Jan 28^th, 2009 at 11:07am

chornedsnorkack Offline
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Airbus officially announced that they do not want to bother with just three frames.

How many Belugas did they build in total?

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