My Dad (a real-world CFI) has always dreamed of building an airplane from a kit.  What if there was such a thing available for virtual aviation as well?  It could come in pieces (wings, fuselage, etc all built but seperate), have a paintkit, instructions for building the .air file, etc.  There could even be different options like floats, or different engines or passenger/cargo configurations...all requiring different things in the .air file.  Taking it further...Maybe as a commercial project, you could produce several of these kit airplanes and then a series of possible upgrades (engines, avionics, STOL kits, tanks, etc.), as would be possible if you purchased a real airplane.

"The separate "parts"  would still have to be put together in the modelling program, which means, you still have to get the modelling program, the appropriate flightsim version SDK, etc."

Of course, but following a plan and attaching a couple of wings would be much simpler than starting from scratch, and yet would still give the first-timer the satisfaction of building an airplane.

"You don't need specialized "parts" - not when you have so many donated source files available."

Yes but if the parts were designed to go together (including knowing how they change the flight dynamics), it would change things a bit.  For example: model the Bearhawk kitplane with all it's different options (and their subsequent impacts on performace) and allow the usuer to assemble to taste.  You get a "custom" airplane and the satisfaction (as well as education) of "assembling" it yourself.  This would be much more realistic than simply using a source file as choosing "such and such" engine would have impact on the final shape, weight, and performance specific to that aircraft.

jeremiahhorner wrote on Dec 27^th, 2008 at 5:39pm:


Ahhh    this thread is a good transition from our other thread..  Your enthusiasm for the "aerodynamics coming from the model", shows that you're really thinking about this stuff   .. But you've fallen into that same, mental trap. What you can "see", and "assemble", and "paint", is nothing but eye-candy.

I can picture what you're going for here..     It sounds like a neat idea... Download a kit.. and then experiment with how the flight dynamics are effected by what parts you use (and how you use them)... but how that model moves through the virtual air is determined by cfg/.air data.

Now.. as Felix points out.. you'd still have to run and use some sort of modeling program.. and then compile the finished product. The manner in which animations and such are done, dont lend themselves well to moving or manipulating the parts. It's all axis-oriented.. and for that matter, so is the texture application, to a degree. And the whole ball of wax serves no other purpose than to "look" like an airplane. As far as the sim is concerend.. your airplane is just a spread-sheet full of numbers. If you move the wing back by a given distance on the model.. you have to edit the cfg file accordingly.

Open up an aircraft.cfg file with Notepad.. give it a good read. And then dowload and run  AirEd and take a look at all the data and tables in an air file...  Or.. make a copy of the model files (for backup) in the 747's model folder.. and then paste COPY of the C172's models into that folder (edit the model.cfg file to match the names)... Start the sim.. select that 747. You'll get an idea of how it all works.. You'll see a C172 floating above the ground.. but it will FLY like a 747 

I think this might be a good way to get non-modellers into the spirit of the thing.

If you think about it, all of this could be done.

You take a model already in production and split it up (fuselage, cockpit, wings, tailplane parts, empennage, etc) and put each part in a separate gmax file.  Then save them all and start modifying each part, making sure you don't move or modify the areas that connect with another part of the aircraft.  Modify several different ways and select four or five to put into the file.  You now have several different ways an aircraft could be put together, and not worry about the newbie screwing around with modding parameters or moving bits about.

On to the airfile.  You create an airfile for the original model you made, then modify it to reflect what each bit you messed with in gmax  would do in the sim.  Pull each part out and paste it into its own notepad file, then save just that bit.  Now you have a full compliment of gmax parts that can be "pasted" together, as well as corresponding airfile parts that you can do the same thing with.

But how does the newbie get it all together?  You lay out simple instructions in the readme file.  You give them instructions on locating and downloading Gmax and installing it correctly.  Include a zip file of your folder that contains the converter provided by the MS SDK.  Tell them how to unzip it and place it within the Gmax file structure.  Explain the process of merging files so that they can pick which parts they want and port them over to the main file.  Describe in detail which parts are available and what the different characteristics are of each (longer wings give a greater glide slope, but hinder agility).  Let them choose which parts they want, and then tell them how to paste parts of the airfile together.  Painting would be done the same as any other paint instruction.

All of this would be included in a single download, and would create for more people getting interested in designing.  Once they see how fun it can be, they can decide for themselves whether or not to do it all.

Here are the complications and problems...

Air files can't be broken up into bits. They can be edited in their entirety, but not pieced together.

Aircraft.cfg files "can" be "broken" up... they're nothing but text documents. But cfg file editing can become problematic in a hurry, if you don't know what you're doing. Being able to cut/paste a cfg file without problems, would require attention to detail and knowledge of what you're doing and why, that would be just as much work (or more) then learning to simply edit a cfg file. It would be like learning to replace walls in a room to change colors, instead of just painting them. Your wiring and plumbing and structural integrity depend on PERFECT construction techniques... Pasting and hoping for the best would open an unbelieveable can of worms..  

As for merging Gmax files.. geez.. where to begin..lol  The ONLY way that would work, is if you limited yourself to just merging. Any manipulation of the parts at all, and you've begun the modeling process, anyway. Picture how UNsatisfying and UNcreative that would be. It wouldn't be much different than pasting a set of pre-written paragraphs together, thinking you written a book. And, the type of airplane you could work with, would have to be so simple and basic that it wouldn't "feel" like you were doing anything. Even IF if you  could manage to ONLY highlight the proper file names and click ONLY the proper buttons... you'll have to trust me on this one.. it wouldn't be any fun... And, the chances of getting several Gmax files together, and compiled into a working model, are slim at best. THere's just too much going on. People with gobs of Gmax experience; working with model pieces THEY designed, would have problems getting this concept to work, in an idiot-proof format.

It would actually be easier for the person looking to offer this option to prospective modelers, to compile several, complete models; encompassing all the possible "pieces-parts" combinations.. and then setting up some sort of GUI that would allow the client to pick his parts.. and then the GIU's program would edit the names of existing air & cfg & model file names to match the selections.


Edit:  And that wouldn't be any different than just installing all those models individually.. and the letting the client pick the combo he wanted to try, from the Aircraft Selection Screen during create-a-flight.

jeremiahhorner wrote on Dec 27^th, 2008 at 9:06pm:


And it's a nobel thought. I actually caught myself planning to dismantle one of my models and send all the parts to you... but then I carried it out to it's logical conclusion. By the time we got it to where it would all come together.. you'd have long since started your own model 

Forget it…   This web site already has aircraft available for people to experiment with or even complete.  Take a look at the “Adopt a Design Project” page.  http://www.simviation.com/adoptfsc.htm
Any one of those aircraft could be taken apart and “reassembled” (as the original designer cringes), then compiled into some new version.  But learning to apply texture mapping is not so easy.  Then getting the airfile to actually represent something similar to what is on the screen as apposed to hijacking someone else’s air file is a whole other level of learning.  Same goes for both the 2D and the 3D instrument panels and Virtual Cockpit.
After learning all those topic, and getting MakeModel to work, you may as well learn how to actually model, since the modeling is the easy part anyway.


Harold