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FSX doesn't seem to like my new clock (Read 9441 times)

Nov 1^st, 2008 at 3:57pm

vgbaron Offline
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All tests, Occt, Memtest, PI - show a stable clock. Have NO issues with any other programs.

Run FSX as I normally do and within 2 or 3 minutes of clicking fly now I get a semi freeze. Meaning sound is fine but screen freezes and blinks every 10 or 15 seconds. If I hit ESC and wait a minute or two I'll get the end flight screen and after another 2 or 3 minutes I'll be able to exit FSX and get back to the desktop where things seem normal.

In the past, this is the same actions that I get when I try a new driver and it doesn't work.

BTW 3dMark ran fine and showed 12292 with defaults.

As I write this I realize that after changing the mobo, I did not uninstall,clean and reinstall the video driver (174.74) so I will try that first. I did remove the clock on the video card and am running default now - same problem.

My vCore is 1.28675 and nb is 1.51097.

After reinstalling the driver I assume that I should kick up the vCore and try again or should I try the NB first?

Thanx,

Vic

I7 980x 4.43G P6X58D 6G Mushkin 1612 6-8-6-24 1T EVGA GTX480 826/4200 Noctua DH14 Corsair 850W PSU 2 - 1TB WD HDD, 1 600G WD Vraptor for FSX Thermaltake Armor+ Case W7 64 Pro.

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Reply #1 - Nov 1^st, 2008 at 4:17pm

NickN Offline
Colonel
FSX runs fine... the problem
is you or your system

Posts: 6317

Probably NB.. but yes, could need a touch more Vcore or both

Also, you are on DDR3 now so it may be possible a bit of SKEW or GTL may be needed. If after you try increasing Vcore and NB you get the same result we may need to look at some skew

As a matter of fact I think the Mushkin support forum shows the settings for DDR3 1800 with their product and and Rampage

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Reply #2 - Nov 1^st, 2008 at 4:29pm

vgbaron Offline
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Yes they do - my settings are as they have on the site including the skew. I just reinstalled the driver and will test again, then nb and vcore in that order.

Vic

I7 980x 4.43G P6X58D 6G Mushkin 1612 6-8-6-24 1T EVGA GTX480 826/4200 Noctua DH14 Corsair 850W PSU 2 - 1TB WD HDD, 1 600G WD Vraptor for FSX Thermaltake Armor+ Case W7 64 Pro.

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Reply #3 - Nov 1^st, 2008 at 5:25pm

vgbaron Offline
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so have gone up to 1.52747NB and 1.31250 vCore with no success. I may be crazy but it seems to crash faster (< 1minute) as opposed to < 2m.

Will increase both a bit more and try again.

I7 980x 4.43G P6X58D 6G Mushkin 1612 6-8-6-24 1T EVGA GTX480 826/4200 Noctua DH14 Corsair 850W PSU 2 - 1TB WD HDD, 1 600G WD Vraptor for FSX Thermaltake Armor+ Case W7 64 Pro.

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Reply #4 - Nov 1^st, 2008 at 5:49pm

vgbaron Offline
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ok - now I'm stuck Sad

Sad

Increased NB to 1.55 - no joy

increased vCore to 1.33125

FSX loaded and froze immediately.

?

Thanx,

Vic

I7 980x 4.43G P6X58D 6G Mushkin 1612 6-8-6-24 1T EVGA GTX480 826/4200 Noctua DH14 Corsair 850W PSU 2 - 1TB WD HDD, 1 600G WD Vraptor for FSX Thermaltake Armor+ Case W7 64 Pro.

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Reply #5 - Nov 1^st, 2008 at 6:07pm

vgbaron Offline
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Now I am really confused.

Reset the BIOS to defaults - everything on Auto

Same problem screen freeze in less than a minute -

WTF?
edit:
Just for the heck of it, I did something differently - I usually use a program called Alacrity PC to shut down unneeded services b4 a flight. This time I used Enditall and so far have been airborne for about 15 minutes , still with BIOS defaults.

Possibly shut down some needed service altho I've made no changes to AlacrityPC since I started using it.

Hope this rambling helps someone else with similar problems.

I guess next step is to restore the clock and try again.

edit2:

restored clock - back to freeze

I7 980x 4.43G P6X58D 6G Mushkin 1612 6-8-6-24 1T EVGA GTX480 826/4200 Noctua DH14 Corsair 850W PSU 2 - 1TB WD HDD, 1 600G WD Vraptor for FSX Thermaltake Armor+ Case W7 64 Pro.

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Reply #6 - Nov 1^st, 2008 at 7:28pm

vgbaron Offline
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a new wrinkle - switched to the 178.24 drivers - now FSX just disappears to the desktop after a minute or so.

I7 980x 4.43G P6X58D 6G Mushkin 1612 6-8-6-24 1T EVGA GTX480 826/4200 Noctua DH14 Corsair 850W PSU 2 - 1TB WD HDD, 1 600G WD Vraptor for FSX Thermaltake Armor+ Case W7 64 Pro.

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Reply #7 - Nov 1^st, 2008 at 7:30pm

NickN Offline
Colonel
FSX runs fine... the problem
is you or your system

Posts: 6317

Vic

I know you dont want to hear this but changing motherboads and platforms its never wise to do a repair install

We went through this in the past. I would have thought you would have learned your lesson by now

Also, I cant see the system unstable with what you posted about raising voltages and load testing correctly.

And by the way.. I NEVER use any of that shut-down software crap as it is a FARCE because the only weay to shut down a service and have that service shut-down mean anything to the system is to assign it to DISABLED at LOGON and reboot... otherwise the footprint is still on the system and that software you use is as useless as boobs on a bull

Shutting down the wrong services can actaully cause issues,,, dont do it. Only the items I listed need to be shut down, nothing else.

Take your clock back to default and test this again. Something is not right.

Also, just because Mushkin posted BIOS settings does not mean they are right

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Reply #8 - Nov 1^st, 2008 at 7:39pm

vgbaron Offline
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I understand Nick but this time I didn't reinstall XP at all - it just booted fine. I uninstalled and reinstalled the Extreme drivers.

I am in agreement about the auto uninstall programs - I just keep hoping...

I guess what has me confused more is the fact that the system seems stable with everything BUT FSX.

Not sure which way to go here -

I could reset everything back to default and (ugh!) do a fresh install of XP and everything else and start again or

given that I used the BIOS settings that Mushkin posted for 450x9 - any adjustments you think I should make?
This is what I have now:

Extreme Tweaker
Ai Overclock Tuner: Manual
OC From Memory Level Up: Auto
FSB Frequency: 450
CPU Ratio Setting: 09.0
CPU Configuration

CPU Ratio Setting: 09.0
C1E Support: Disabled
CPU TM Function: Disabled
Max CPUID Value Limit: Disabled
Vanderpool Technology: Enabled
Execute Disable Bit: Enabled
Core Multi-Processing: Enabled
CPU Clock Skew: Auto
NB Clock Skew: Auto
FSB Strap to North Bridge: Auto
PCIE Frequency: 100
DRAM Frequency: 1801Mhz
DRAM Command Rate: 1N
DRAM Timing Control: Manual
1st Information: 8-8-8-24-8-82-6-3
CAS# Latency: 8
RAS# to CAS# Delay: 8
RAS# Pre Time: 8
RAS# ACT Time: 24
RAS# To RAS# Delay: 8
REF Cycle Time: 82
WRITE Recovery Time: 6
READ to Pre Time: 3
2nd Information : 9-4-5-4-6-4-6
READ to WRITE Delay (S/D): 9
WRITE to READ Delay (S): 4
WRITE to READ Delay (D): 5
READ to READ (S): 4
READ to READ (D): 6
WRITE to WRITE (S): 4
WRITE to WRITE (D): 6
3RD Information: 21-7-1-9-9
WRITE to PRE Delay: 21
READ to PRE Delay: 7
PRE to PRE Delay: 1
ALL PRE to ACT Delay: 9
ALL PRE to REF Delay: 9
DRAM Static Read Control: Enabled
DRAM Dynamic Write Control: Enabled
DRAM Skew Control

DRAM CMD Skew on Channel A: Auto
DRAM CLK Skew on DIMM A1: Auto
DRAM CLK Skew on DIMM A2: Auto
DRAM CTL Skew on DIMM A1: Auto
DRAM CTL Skew on DIMM A2: Auto
DRAM CMD Skew on Channel B: Auto
DRAM CLK Skew on DIMM B1: Auto
DRAM CLK Skew on DIMM B2: Auto
DRAM CTL Skew on DIMM B1: Auto
DRAM CTL Skew on DIMM B2: Auto
Ai Clock Twister: Lighter
Ai Transaction Booster: Manual

Common Performance Level: 07
Pull-In of CHA PH1: Disabled
Pull-In of CHA PH2: Disabled
Pull-In of CHA PH3: Disabled
Pull-In of CHB PH1: Disabled
Pull-In of CHB PH2: Disabled
Pull-In of CHB PH3: Disabled
EPU II Phase Control: Auto
CPU Voltage: 1.28675
Load-Line Calibration: Enabled
CPU PLL Voltage: 1.51106
FSB Termination Voltage: 1.10016
CPU GTLVerf (0): +70mV
CPU GTLVerf (1): +70mV
CPU GTLVerf (2): +70mV
CPU GTLVerf (3): +70mV
NB GTLVerf: +60mV
North Bridge Voltage: 1.51097
DRAM Voltage: 1.86881
NB DDRVref: Auto
DDR3 ChannelA Vref: +25mV
DDR3 ChannelB Vref: +25mV
South Bridge 1.5 Voltage: 1.51106
South Bridge 1.05 Voltage: 1.06039
CPU Spread Spectrum: Disabled
PCIE Spread Spectrum: Disabled

Advanced menu
North Bridge Chipset Configuration
Memory Remap Feature: Enabled
Initiate Graphic Adapter:
PEG Port Control:

I7 980x 4.43G P6X58D 6G Mushkin 1612 6-8-6-24 1T EVGA GTX480 826/4200 Noctua DH14 Corsair 850W PSU 2 - 1TB WD HDD, 1 600G WD Vraptor for FSX Thermaltake Armor+ Case W7 64 Pro.

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Reply #9 - Nov 1^st, 2008 at 7:57pm

vgbaron Offline
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ok reset the CMOS using the switch - still using 178.24 driver

did not disable anything other than what was on your list, not even any auto updaters for java, etc.

you use Eset - do you disable the auto update feature when flying? Those are my main concern.

currently flying.........

ok - flew for a little over an hour with default BIOS settings.

thinking I should just try to get to 450x9 with default memory settings and see what FSX does then. try 450x9 with only vCore set - rest at auto - memory at auto -

or is a different approach better?

« Last Edit: Nov 1^st, 2008 at 9:05pm by vgbaron »

I7 980x 4.43G P6X58D 6G Mushkin 1612 6-8-6-24 1T EVGA GTX480 826/4200 Noctua DH14 Corsair 850W PSU 2 - 1TB WD HDD, 1 600G WD Vraptor for FSX Thermaltake Armor+ Case W7 64 Pro.

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Reply #10 - Nov 1^st, 2008 at 9:23pm

NickN Offline
Colonel
FSX runs fine... the problem
is you or your system

Posts: 6317

Vic you are going to have to bear with me as I am dialed into something else here.. probably get a better look tat this tomorrow

Lets try this.. set the clock back up but this time run 2T instead of 1T and see what happens

In my mind going from x48 to x48 should not be a problem however I am not an Intel engineer.. but I do know that only when Windows is installed clean will the HAL be updated and replaced (Hardware Abstract Layer) or the file that coordinates Windows with the motherboard. A repair or upgrade will not update the HAL so it is possible there may be an improper HAL loaded with this now

The reason I posted for everyone to use ESET NOD32 is becasue you do not have to shut it down. If there was anything else to shut down Vic my list would have it on it

so unless you are into placebo feelings about shutting down things.. its not making any difference

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Reply #11 - Nov 1^st, 2008 at 9:41pm

vgbaron Offline
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No problem Nick I realize you have a full plate. I have some other things I have to get done tonight also.

Eset was the only thing I had a concern over so I'm good to go on that.

I'll setup 450x9 using 2T later on and see how it goes.

Thanx!

I7 980x 4.43G P6X58D 6G Mushkin 1612 6-8-6-24 1T EVGA GTX480 826/4200 Noctua DH14 Corsair 850W PSU 2 - 1TB WD HDD, 1 600G WD Vraptor for FSX Thermaltake Armor+ Case W7 64 Pro.

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Reply #12 - Nov 2^nd, 2008 at 3:00am

vgbaron Offline
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well, creeping up on it. Using the above settings from Mushkin except for vCore 1.31250 NB 1.52422 and 2T I was able to get 30 minutes stable on Occt. Ran FSX and put it on autopilot - flew for 40 minutes before it froze.

That's it for tonight.

I7 980x 4.43G P6X58D 6G Mushkin 1612 6-8-6-24 1T EVGA GTX480 826/4200 Noctua DH14 Corsair 850W PSU 2 - 1TB WD HDD, 1 600G WD Vraptor for FSX Thermaltake Armor+ Case W7 64 Pro.

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Reply #13 - Nov 2^nd, 2008 at 10:20am

NickN Offline
Colonel
FSX runs fine... the problem
is you or your system

Posts: 6317

Sounds like the problem may be in dram channel stability

Try the test again at 1T and then 2T.. confirm the 1T/2T change is indeed equal and result

The sticks are manufacture 2T by design so that is what they should be set to for further testing until stability is achieved

I would diable MemSet and also set the common performance leve in the BIOS to AUTO allowing the automatic value be calculated

AI Clock Twister DISABLED

So that would be the next move... 2T, MemSet disabled at boot, PL AUTO and AI Clock Twist DISABLED.

Also, is 1.9v the max Muskin allows for the memory?

Another thing... have you tried setting everything in the BIOS to AUTO (with the exception of vcore, LLC, NB and memory voltage) and not use the Mushkin settings?

EDIT... Hmmmmm

The FSB Termination Voltage you have listed above seems very low

FSB Termination Voltage: 1.28 or AUTO

CPU PLL AUTO

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Reply #14 - Nov 2^nd, 2008 at 11:13am

vgbaron Offline
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just a fwiw - kicked up the vcore from the last setting to 1.31875 and system rebooted during OCCT. Also noticed that CPUz showed the vcore as 3.208

I think I tried it with everything on auto but i was floundering around a bit last night.

1.85 - 1.95 is the listed range on the memory

have to go out for an hour but will set the test and report as soon as I return.

BTW, for the 40 minutes that I WAS able to fly - I have NEVER seen the sim look that sharp - I couldn't believe it.

V

I7 980x 4.43G P6X58D 6G Mushkin 1612 6-8-6-24 1T EVGA GTX480 826/4200 Noctua DH14 Corsair 850W PSU 2 - 1TB WD HDD, 1 600G WD Vraptor for FSX Thermaltake Armor+ Case W7 64 Pro.

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Reply #15 - Nov 2^nd, 2008 at 12:13pm

NickN Offline
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FSX runs fine... the problem
is you or your system

Posts: 6317

Lets back up

I just checked the mushkin site for those settings and he is using a Q9650 proc byt what does not make sense to me is the FSB Termination Voltage. I know he is compensating with that setting but it still seems very low.

Dont change anything yet...

First, we know the sticks are not 1T rated so lets leave them on 2T

We do not know what the PL is for those sticks stable either so lets remove the Windows Memset boot and in the BIOS set common performance level to AUTO or DISABLED

Lets DISABLE AI Clock Twister completely

Vcore to 1.28v should be stable where you had it.

OK, if the voltage on the memory sticks is OK by Mushkin to run 1.95v, set the memory voltage to 1.95v.

Go ahead and set everything back up according to the Mushkin list other than 2N, CPL DISABLED or AUTO and AI Clk Twstr DISABLED

Check Memset on Windows boot and see where PL sits. Run your tests/flights.. if still unstable, set FSB TERM VOLT to AUTO and retest

Let me know what you come up with

Please understand I have never used Mushkin memory for DDR3 and the key here is the memory and NB with the DRAM CHA stability to the CPU. I use Corsair memory for DDR3 becasue the Samsung chips are pretty much plug and go with very little tweaking and this is why, what you are seeing now. OCZ memory tends to show the same fine tuning problems with 2x2GB DDR3.

So lets back up and start with what I posted. If it is still unstable then we will go back to the very basics and start over.. if it IS stable then use Memset in Windows to set PL to 7 and tRFC to highest T and retest. If still stable then set COMMAND to 1N and retest

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Reply #16 - Nov 2^nd, 2008 at 12:25pm

vgbaron Offline
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rgr - only Ai twister has no disabled option - auto then lightest thru strongest.

I'll set it at lightest first and the rest as you specified.

understand about the memory - if it becomes an insurmountable issue, then we;ve learned something and I'll get some different sticks.

I7 980x 4.43G P6X58D 6G Mushkin 1612 6-8-6-24 1T EVGA GTX480 826/4200 Noctua DH14 Corsair 850W PSU 2 - 1TB WD HDD, 1 600G WD Vraptor for FSX Thermaltake Armor+ Case W7 64 Pro.

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Reply #17 - Nov 2^nd, 2008 at 12:53pm

NickN Offline
Colonel
FSX runs fine... the problem
is you or your system

Posts: 6317

Thos sticks are DDR3 1600 2T @ 1.90-1.95v, not 1800

So if you cant get stable then we go back to the basics and start over using 1600 as the base

let me know what happens

I could not remember if twister allowed disable.. lightest is fine

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Reply #18 - Nov 2^nd, 2008 at 1:05pm

raptorx Offline
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Nick, Can you tell me what the max PLL should be? Is it something like VTT where it wikll KILL the cpu above a certain value? I have it on the lowest setting in BIOS and HW monitor reads 1.58v. Should that be AUTO even if it raises PLL to 1.6-1.7v?

Jim

Rampage II Gene, i7 965 4GHz
Mushkin Redline DDR3 1600
XP x64 SP2
ASUS Matrix GTX285

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Reply #19 - Nov 2^nd, 2008 at 1:23pm

vgbaron Offline
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PL=6 freeze < 1 minute
FSB Auto freeze < 2min

realized I stil had the 178.24 driver installed - went back to known item 174.74

freeze in 10 minutes

V

I7 980x 4.43G P6X58D 6G Mushkin 1612 6-8-6-24 1T EVGA GTX480 826/4200 Noctua DH14 Corsair 850W PSU 2 - 1TB WD HDD, 1 600G WD Vraptor for FSX Thermaltake Armor+ Case W7 64 Pro.

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Reply #20 - Nov 2^nd, 2008 at 1:41pm

NickN Offline
Colonel
FSX runs fine... the problem
is you or your system

Posts: 6317

raptorx wrote on Nov 2^nd, 2008 at 1:05pm:

Nick, Can you tell me what the max PLL should be? Is it something like VTT where it wikll KILL the cpu above a certain value? I have it on the lowest setting in BIOS and HW monitor reads 1.58v. Should that be AUTO even if it raises PLL to 1.6-1.7v?

Jim

45nm processor max is 1.30v FSB Termination (AKA VTT) can go to 1.35 in extreme cases but only under a pro tuning that

CPU PLL to 1.50-1.55, 1.6v is max

its alway best to run AUTO with those values unless stability is impossible to get locked using vcore/NB voltage first

AUTO is suppose to read the CPU table and run the voltages within spec. Why it would read higher I do not know.. could be a BIOS quark

If what you have now is stable and it reads within spec, leave it

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Reply #21 - Nov 2^nd, 2008 at 1:43pm

NickN Offline
Colonel
FSX runs fine... the problem
is you or your system

Posts: 6317

vgbaron wrote on Nov 2^nd, 2008 at 1:23pm:

PL=6 freeze < 1 minute
FSB Auto freeze < 2min

realized I stil had the 178.24 driver installed - went back to known item 174.74

freeze in 10 minutes

V

What does it read in Memset without setting it in the BIOS and disabling Memset boot? 6 on its own?

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Reply #22 - Nov 2^nd, 2008 at 1:44pm

vgbaron Offline
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yes memset says it's 6 with it set to auto in BIOS

I7 980x 4.43G P6X58D 6G Mushkin 1612 6-8-6-24 1T EVGA GTX480 826/4200 Noctua DH14 Corsair 850W PSU 2 - 1TB WD HDD, 1 600G WD Vraptor for FSX Thermaltake Armor+ Case W7 64 Pro.

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Reply #23 - Nov 2^nd, 2008 at 1:47pm

NickN Offline
Colonel
FSX runs fine... the problem
is you or your system

Posts: 6317

vgbaron wrote on Nov 2^nd, 2008 at 1:44pm:

yes memset says it's 6 with it set to auto in BIOS

OK.. so its calc'ing that on its own

Raise/change it back to 07 in the BIOS (verify in memset), make sure memory voltage to 1.95v and set FSB Termination to 1.20v

retest

If fails, raise it to 8 and retest

If it still fails we go back to the basics and the 1600 clock and start over

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Reply #24 - Nov 2^nd, 2008 at 1:49pm

vgbaron Offline
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rgr

I7 980x 4.43G P6X58D 6G Mushkin 1612 6-8-6-24 1T EVGA GTX480 826/4200 Noctua DH14 Corsair 850W PSU 2 - 1TB WD HDD, 1 600G WD Vraptor for FSX Thermaltake Armor+ Case W7 64 Pro.

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Reply #25 - Nov 2^nd, 2008 at 2:04pm

vgbaron Offline
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no joy at 7 and 8 FSB 1.20

I7 980x 4.43G P6X58D 6G Mushkin 1612 6-8-6-24 1T EVGA GTX480 826/4200 Noctua DH14 Corsair 850W PSU 2 - 1TB WD HDD, 1 600G WD Vraptor for FSX Thermaltake Armor+ Case W7 64 Pro.

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Reply #26 - Nov 2^nd, 2008 at 2:06pm

NickN Offline
Colonel
FSX runs fine... the problem
is you or your system

Posts: 6317

OK so let me get this strait

You passed OCCT with the Mushkin settings and 40 minutes of FSX running the same settings except 2T, FSB Termination was set to 1.10v and the memory voltage was set to 1.90?

Because thats all that has changed here: FSB Term and memory voltage.. everything else is the same, correct?

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Reply #27 - Nov 2^nd, 2008 at 2:12pm

vgbaron Offline
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the 40 minutes came after I raised vcore to 1.31250 and NB to 1.5244 all else same except 2T. However when I raised vcore again to 1.31875 system rebooted during OCCT. These last tests were back at original settings except as you suggested

I7 980x 4.43G P6X58D 6G Mushkin 1612 6-8-6-24 1T EVGA GTX480 826/4200 Noctua DH14 Corsair 850W PSU 2 - 1TB WD HDD, 1 600G WD Vraptor for FSX Thermaltake Armor+ Case W7 64 Pro.

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Reply #28 - Nov 2^nd, 2008 at 2:14pm

NickN Offline
Colonel
FSX runs fine... the problem
is you or your system

Posts: 6317

OK, I figured NB needed to be 1.52 as most board need at least that

As for Vcore, that problematical and may need to be between 1.28-1.32v

Are you in the white or blue slots with the memory?

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Reply #29 - Nov 2^nd, 2008 at 2:17pm

vgbaron Offline
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in the white as suggested by Mushkin. Also, the diagram in the manual indicates white for two sticks alone

I7 980x 4.43G P6X58D 6G Mushkin 1612 6-8-6-24 1T EVGA GTX480 826/4200 Noctua DH14 Corsair 850W PSU 2 - 1TB WD HDD, 1 600G WD Vraptor for FSX Thermaltake Armor+ Case W7 64 Pro.

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Reply #30 - Nov 2^nd, 2008 at 2:19pm

NickN Offline
Colonel
FSX runs fine... the problem
is you or your system

Posts: 6317

OK, yes that is correct and I was just checking

I think this is going to require going back to the basics and 1600 2T which is what the sticks are rated for

1800 on those sticks is a hard O/C and not standard so we need to go back to what the sticks are rated for and build from there.

let me read up on this and I will post back in a few minutes

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Reply #31 - Nov 2^nd, 2008 at 2:43pm

NickN Offline
Colonel
FSX runs fine... the problem
is you or your system

Posts: 6317

Vic

Lets start at ground level

Extreme Tweaker
Ai Overclock Tuner: Manual
OC From Memory Level Up: Auto
FSB Frequency: 400
CPU Ratio Setting: 09.0
CPU Configuration

CPU Ratio Setting: 09.0
C1E Support: Disabled
CPU TM Function: Disabled
Max CPUID Value Limit: Disabled
Vanderpool Technology: Disabled
Execute Disable Bit: Disabled
Core Multi-Processing: Enabled
CPU Clock Skew: Auto
NB Clock Skew: Auto
FSB Strap to North Bridge: 333 (check memory speed, may need 400)
PCIE Frequency: 100
DRAM Frequency: 1600Mhz
DRAM Command Rate: 2N
DRAM Timing Control: Manual
1st Information: 7-7-7-20-6-82-6-3
CAS# Latency: 7
RAS# to CAS# Delay: 7
RAS# Pre Time: 7
RAS# ACT Time: 20
RAS# To RAS# Delay: 6
REF Cycle Time: 82
WRITE Recovery Time: 6
READ to Pre Time: 3
2nd Information : 9-4-5-4-6-4-6
READ to WRITE Delay (S/D): 9
WRITE to READ Delay (S): 4
WRITE to READ Delay (D): 5
READ to READ (S): 4
READ to READ (D): 6
WRITE to WRITE (S): 4
WRITE to WRITE (D): 6
3RD Information: 18-7-1-9-9
WRITE to PRE Delay: 18
READ to PRE Delay: 7
PRE to PRE Delay: 1
ALL PRE to ACT Delay: 9
ALL PRE to REF Delay: 9
DRAM Static Read Control: DISABLED
DRAM Dynamic Write Control: AUTO
DRAM Skew Control

DRAM CMD Skew on Channel A: Auto
DRAM CLK Skew on DIMM A1: Auto
DRAM CLK Skew on DIMM A2: Auto
DRAM CTL Skew on DIMM A1: Auto
DRAM CTL Skew on DIMM A2: Auto
DRAM CMD Skew on Channel B: Auto
DRAM CLK Skew on DIMM B1: Auto
DRAM CLK Skew on DIMM B2: Auto
DRAM CTL Skew on DIMM B1: Auto
DRAM CTL Skew on DIMM B2: Auto
Ai Clock Twister: Lighter
Ai Transaction Booster: Manual

Common Performance Level: 07
Pull-In of CHA PH1: Disabled
Pull-In of CHA PH2: Disabled
Pull-In of CHA PH3: Disabled
Pull-In of CHB PH1: Disabled
Pull-In of CHB PH2: Disabled
Pull-In of CHB PH3: Disabled
EPU II Phase Control: Auto
CPU Voltage: 1.28
Load-Line Calibration: Enabled
CPU PLL Voltage: 1.55
FSB Termination Voltage: 1.28
CPU GTLVerf (0): Auto
CPU GTLVerf (1): Auto
CPU GTLVerf (2): Auto
CPU GTLVerf (3): Auto
NB GTLVerf: Auto
North Bridge Voltage: 1.45
DRAM Voltage: 1.90
NB DDRVref: Auto
DDR3 ChannelA Vref: Auto
DDR3 ChannelB Vref: Auto
South Bridge 1.5 Voltage: 1.51106
South Bridge 1.05 Voltage: 1.06039
CPU Spread Spectrum: Disabled
PCIE Spread Spectrum: Disabled

Advanced menu
North Bridge Chipset Configuration
Memory Remap Feature: Enabled

Run your tests and tell me if that is stable or not.

If it isn't stable then I suspect defective memory. If its not stable then run the latest MEMTEST http://www.memtest.org/, 5 PASSES (take a bit of time) and see what test fails and how long it takes to fail.

If it is stable then the next step is to change COMMAND to 1T and retest.. if stable drop PL to 6 and test... if unstable in either, raise NB voltage to 1.52-1.55 and retest

1T and PL6 may not be possible.. you may be able to do 2T and PL 6

report back.. if you find a stable point we can go from there and expand on it

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Reply #32 - Nov 2^nd, 2008 at 2:47pm

vgbaron Offline
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rgr

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Reply #33 - Nov 2^nd, 2008 at 3:31pm

NickN Offline
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FSX runs fine... the problem
is you or your system

Posts: 6317

I have to leave for a bit but will check back when I return.. should not be long

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Reply #34 - Nov 2^nd, 2008 at 5:04pm

vgbaron Offline
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ok success all the way - 1T and PL 6 with settings as above. OCCT CPU& Ram test 30 minutes. FSX flight 15 minutes - no issues

Didn't run Memtest because no errors.

strap 333 memory 1601

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Reply #35 - Nov 2^nd, 2008 at 5:23pm

NickN Offline
Colonel
FSX runs fine... the problem
is you or your system

Posts: 6317

OK so why dont you go ahead and run that for a bit... lets just make sure its stable... remember you did fly 40 minutes with FSX before so lets go ahead and call that a winning clock at 1600 if it remains FSX stable

Let me do a bit more reading on the sticks and if it remains stable we will try a 1800 clock and see if we cant work it out, .. my way instead of Mushkin

If it turns out the system locks go ahead and run memtest, 5 passes and lets see what test fails, if any

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Reply #36 - Nov 2^nd, 2008 at 5:26pm

vgbaron Offline
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ok I'll set up a flight and let it run for an hour or so and see what happens!

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Reply #37 - Nov 2^nd, 2008 at 5:29pm

NickN Offline
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FSX runs fine... the problem
is you or your system

Posts: 6317

By the way Vic..

Not sure if you are clocking your video card but lets do be sure that is not having any effect here.. clocking it is fine but back down on it a bit like 20MHz core and memory from what you normally clock the card at.

I just want to be sure that is not a factor here

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Reply #38 - Nov 2^nd, 2008 at 7:16pm

vgbaron Offline
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I am and I will drop it back. Success - 1hour 45min flight FSX with no issues!

btw, since you didn't say to modify it, I left the tRef at default in memset

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Reply #39 - Nov 2^nd, 2008 at 7:30pm

NickN Offline
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FSX runs fine... the problem
is you or your system

Posts: 6317

Good

OK, now lets try and bring the clock up

We start simple, same settings you have now except:

Extreme Tweaker

FSB Frequency: 450

FSB Strap to North Bridge: 333

DRAM Frequency: 1800Mhz

DRAM Timing Control: Manual

CAS# Latency: 8
RAS# to CAS# Delay: 8
RAS# Pre Time: 8
RAS# ACT Time: 24
RAS# To RAS# Delay: 8
REF Cycle Time: 82
WRITE Recovery Time: 6
READ to Pre Time: 3
2nd Information : 9-4-5-4-6-4-6
READ to WRITE Delay (S/D): 9
WRITE to READ Delay (S): 4
WRITE to READ Delay (D): 5
READ to READ (S): 4
READ to READ (D): 6
WRITE to WRITE (S): 4
WRITE to WRITE (D): 6
3RD Information: 21-7-1-9-9
WRITE to PRE Delay: 21
READ to PRE Delay: 7
PRE to PRE Delay: 1
ALL PRE to ACT Delay: 9
ALL PRE to REF Delay: 9

Common Performance Level: 08

CPU Voltage: 1.28 (NOTE: Try 1.28 first.. may need to come up to something between that and 1.32)

North Bridge Voltage: 1.45 (NOTE: May need to come up to 1.52)

DRAM Voltage: 1.90 (NOTE: May require 1.95v)

If unstable, raise COMMAND to 2N and retest

Once stable.. drop PL to 07 and retest

So lets see if it will do 1T and PL 08 first and find the vcore and NB voltage

If none of the above is stable, let me know and we go from there

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Reply #40 - Nov 2^nd, 2008 at 7:32pm

vgbaron Offline
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rgr

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Reply #41 - Nov 2^nd, 2008 at 7:39pm

NickN Offline
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FSX runs fine... the problem
is you or your system

Posts: 6317

you may even want to try 1.55 on NB too if all else fails

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Reply #42 - Nov 2^nd, 2008 at 7:41pm

vgbaron Offline
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first test - bsod at Windows desktop load
tried 2N - same result

kicking up vcore and nb and will try again

1.2+ & 1.51 bsod both 1n & 2N

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Reply #43 - Nov 2^nd, 2008 at 7:46pm

NickN Offline
Colonel
FSX runs fine... the problem
is you or your system

Posts: 6317

What BIOS are you on... did you flash to 0501 BIOS?

Make sure you have the latest becase 501 Fixes Load-Line Calibration function error

Yes, voltages first.. NB and vcore ,,, and do keep in mind as we do this that at 1800 1T is not anywhere near as important as it is at 1066-1080

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Reply #44 - Nov 2^nd, 2008 at 7:47pm

vgbaron Offline
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yes 501

1.300 & 1.52 - bsod

1.3125 & 1.537 bsod

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Reply #45 - Nov 2^nd, 2008 at 7:58pm

NickN Offline
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FSX runs fine... the problem
is you or your system

Posts: 6317

OK.. looks like we need to trim GTL or skew

Put NB back to 1.52 and Vcore to 1.28, 2N Command

let me look at the manual here and will post test values

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Reply #46 - Nov 2^nd, 2008 at 7:58pm

vgbaron Offline
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1.3250 & 1.55072 almost got to desktop but still bsod.

higher voltages?

rgr 1.28 152 2n

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Reply #47 - Nov 2^nd, 2008 at 8:12pm

NickN Offline
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FSX runs fine... the problem
is you or your system

Posts: 6317

Vic

before we go any further.. set FSB Termination to AUTO, NB to 1.52 and Vcore to 1.28, 2N

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Reply #48 - Nov 2^nd, 2008 at 8:17pm

vgbaron Offline
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done

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Reply #49 - Nov 2^nd, 2008 at 8:20pm

NickN Offline
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FSX runs fine... the problem
is you or your system

Posts: 6317

is it stable?

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Reply #50 - Nov 2^nd, 2008 at 8:26pm

vgbaron Offline
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bsod

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Reply #51 - Nov 2^nd, 2008 at 8:35pm

NickN Offline
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FSX runs fine... the problem
is you or your system

Posts: 6317

OK..

Question

the BIOS values for GTL are in MV which is correct however that is calulated by a multipier against FSB Termination Voltage

When we originally worked on the Formula that had those values stated in multiplier..

Can I assume in your BIOS the
CPU GTLVerf (0): .63x
CPU GTLVerf (1): .63x
CPU GTLVerf (2): .63x
CPU GTLVerf (3): .63x

are all 063x? Which would make sense at 1.10 FSB Termination and 70mv ... or have they changed that to a direct mv setting now?

it makes a difference

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Reply #52 - Nov 2^nd, 2008 at 8:39pm

vgbaron Offline
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fsb and all GTLVref are auto

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Reply #53 - Nov 2^nd, 2008 at 8:49pm

NickN Offline
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FSX runs fine... the problem
is you or your system

Posts: 6317

I uderstand that

However to clock based on what Mushkin posted you had to change those values to match Mushkins

We designed the Formula BIOS with multipliers for those values and in beta the extreme was also multipliers... however it looks Asus changed that to a strait millivolt value

EDIT: Never mind, found it.. yes its in mv

OK..

First, before we go to GTL and skew (leave those on auto)

2N Command

Vcore 1.28, NB 1.52

Set FSB Terminaton Voltage to 1.30

Set

DDR3 ChannelA Vref: +25mV
DDR3 ChannelB Vref: +25mV

check for stabllity

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Reply #54 - Nov 2^nd, 2008 at 8:57pm

vgbaron Offline
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bsod reboot loop

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Reply #55 - Nov 2^nd, 2008 at 9:01pm

NickN Offline
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FSX runs fine... the problem
is you or your system

Posts: 6317

OK, leave everything as it is now

1.28v core 1.52 NB

this is what does not make sense to me and I am trying to get information about... why Mushkin set a 70mv GTL

By my calculations that should be around -41mv (Minus 41 millivolts)

This is where the memory manufacture knows more about this than the engineer, becasue they have data the engineer may not which is where I am at right now... give me a few minutes, still trying to locate the chip info on those sticks

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Reply #56 - Nov 2^nd, 2008 at 9:01pm

vgbaron Offline
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rgr

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Reply #57 - Nov 2^nd, 2008 at 9:16pm

NickN Offline
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FSX runs fine... the problem
is you or your system

Posts: 6317

Vic...

Go into the BIOS and select one of the CPU GTLVerf values.. tell me if the settings option allows you to set a - mv value. Yo are not going to save anything , just try to input the value -42mv (negative 42) or tell me what the closest value it will allow to -42

Dont save it, set back to auto after but tell me if it allows that negative value input

EDIT: you may have to use the +- key to set it ... see what the range is

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Reply #58 - Nov 2^nd, 2008 at 9:25pm

vgbaron Offline
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presets +10 to +160 in 10mv increments and -5 to -155 in 5 mv increments

I7 980x 4.43G P6X58D 6G Mushkin 1612 6-8-6-24 1T EVGA GTX480 826/4200 Noctua DH14 Corsair 850W PSU 2 - 1TB WD HDD, 1 600G WD Vraptor for FSX Thermaltake Armor+ Case W7 64 Pro.

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Reply #59 - Nov 2^nd, 2008 at 9:32pm

NickN Offline
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FSX runs fine... the problem
is you or your system

Posts: 6317

OK so there is a - value available

jesus, why they switched this from multipler to mv is beyond me

OK.. so now I know we can test negative values in 5mv increments

I wish i stil had my RE this would be a lot easier but then again I did not use Mush memory..

still looking up chip data.. sory, just bear with me.

Check the NB GTL and tell me what the range is

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Reply #60 - Nov 2^nd, 2008 at 9:36pm

vgbaron Offline
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same

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Reply #61 - Nov 2^nd, 2008 at 9:48pm

NickN Offline
Colonel
FSX runs fine... the problem
is you or your system

Posts: 6317

Let me tell you what is really screwed up... Mushkin setting a 70mv GTL would suggest their sticks are using the .63x multiplier and not the VTT mv formula BIOS engineering uses

I really need to talk to a mush engineer to find out what the skinny is on this because based on the VTT (FSB Termination Voltage) to GTL formula

Vtt x 0.667 = Vtt x 0.635 + Y

that value should be @ a 1.1 FSB TERM VOLT = -35mv not 70mv

GTL and VTT can be dangerous to mess with which is why I am being very cautious here and not just firing off numbers..

I am going to post some values here.. just want to dot all the I's and cross all the T's before I post numbers

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Reply #62 - Nov 2^nd, 2008 at 9:50pm

vgbaron Offline
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understood!

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Reply #63 - Nov 2^nd, 2008 at 10:01pm

NickN Offline
Colonel
FSX runs fine... the problem
is you or your system

Posts: 6317

What I dont know is if this guy at Mushkin is all wet or if he is an engineer who knows what he is doing in that forum

By the 70mv he posted for DDR3 1800 that would suggest a FSB termination voltage of 2.18v!!!!!!!!!!!

AND

45nm CPU's are NEGATIVE value mv for GTL when mv is used instead of the multiplier

the way this guy has this set.. hes saying

1.1v (FSB TERM) x .635 GTL = .6985mv (rounded to .70mv)

The problem is, him using the multipler does not make sense for that input because when a BIOS asks for mv the user needs to adhere to the ENTIRE VTT formula and not just VTT x .635

So thats what has me at sort of an impass here..

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Reply #64 - Nov 2^nd, 2008 at 10:05pm

vgbaron Offline
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amy help at the RE forum?

http://vip.asus.com/forum/topic.aspx?board_id=1&model=Rampage+Extreme&SLanguage=...

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Reply #65 - Nov 2^nd, 2008 at 10:11pm

vgbaron Offline
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BTW, if you'd rather call it a night and sleep on it - fine w/me. I don't need FSX until Saturday.

If so, I'll be home tomorrow around 3PM California time and can check in then.

It goes w/o saying how much I appeciate the help, especially when I know you have other stuff to do.

You make the call -

I7 980x 4.43G P6X58D 6G Mushkin 1612 6-8-6-24 1T EVGA GTX480 826/4200 Noctua DH14 Corsair 850W PSU 2 - 1TB WD HDD, 1 600G WD Vraptor for FSX Thermaltake Armor+ Case W7 64 Pro.

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Reply #66 - Nov 2^nd, 2008 at 10:18pm

NickN Offline
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FSX runs fine... the problem
is you or your system

Posts: 6317

Well... in the Asus forum they point back to the basic math I already know which is what is causing this confusion to begin with

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=202292

those formulas do not match what Muskin is doing with that setting

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Reply #67 - Nov 2^nd, 2008 at 10:21pm

NickN Offline
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FSX runs fine... the problem
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Posts: 6317

Vic.. lets try one set of values and if they do not work... go back to the 1600 settings I gave you and you confirmed stable @ 1T and PL6 till I get this sorted out...

calculating here...

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Reply #68 - Nov 2^nd, 2008 at 10:37pm

NickN Offline
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FSX runs fine... the problem
is you or your system

Posts: 6317

OK Vic

Vcore 1.28, NB 1.52.. 2N Command

FSB TERM Voltage 1.25

CPU GTLVerf (0): -40mV
CPU GTLVerf (1): -40mV
CPU GTLVerf (2): -40mV
CPU GTLVerf (3): -40mV

NB GTLVerf: +60mV

DDR3 ChannelA Vref: +25mV
DDR3 ChannelB Vref: +25mV

If fails try 1.31vcore and 1.55 NB

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Reply #69 - Nov 2^nd, 2008 at 10:42pm

vgbaron Offline
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booted - running OCCT

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Reply #70 - Nov 2^nd, 2008 at 10:48pm

NickN Offline
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FSX runs fine... the problem
is you or your system

Posts: 6317

OK....

If it doesn't pass and raising vcore and NB does not help,. set vcore back to 1.28v and NB to 1.52

set -50 (minus 50) for each GTL and retry

Short of that I need to contact Asus and find out WTF!! they did and why Mushkin is using a strait .635 multiplier instead of the right Intel engineering formula for GTL

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Reply #71 - Nov 2^nd, 2008 at 10:52pm

NickN Offline
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FSX runs fine... the problem
is you or your system

Posts: 6317

You know.. its also possible those sticks just wont REALLY do 1800 under all applications. Mushkin just shows that for clockers and success in stability is based on simple benchmark stress tests for sales... that does not mean the sticks will run 1800 in all applications. FSX is a memory subsystem killer so you may be stuck at 1600 and the numbers we came up with earlier on those sticks

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Reply #72 - Nov 2^nd, 2008 at 10:59pm

NickN Offline
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FSX runs fine... the problem
is you or your system

Posts: 6317

actually... try -45 first.. then -50

if you notice its MORE unstable as you increase then try setting FSB TERM to 1.10 and drop the 4 GTL settings to -35

Thats it.. short of communicating with Asus and Mushkin before trying again thats the best I come up with today

EDIT: Scatch that 1.1v test.. I cant believe FSB Term would want to be 1.10 in a 1800 clock, thats another thing that does not make sense about the Mushkin values. If anything that would want to go higher than 1.25

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Reply #73 - Nov 2^nd, 2008 at 11:10pm

vgbaron Offline
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passed 30min OCCT cpu&ram test

-40 settings

trying 1N

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Reply #74 - Nov 2^nd, 2008 at 11:13pm

vgbaron Offline
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Hmmm - when I tried to shut down to set the BIOS - got a bsod - which setting should I change?

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Reply #75 - Nov 2^nd, 2008 at 11:18pm

vgbaron Offline
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NickN wrote on Nov 2^nd, 2008 at 10:52pm:

You know.. its also possible those sticks just wont REALLY do 1800 under all applications. Mushkin just shows that for clockers and success in stability is based on simple benchmark stress tests for sales... that does not mean the sticks will run 1800 in all applications. FSX is a memory subsystem killer so you may be stuck at 1600 and the numbers we came up with earlier on those sticks

if worse comes to worse, could we get 450x9 with 1600?

possibly I could get some Corsair and sell the Mushkin on ebay

btw, the corsair ram - is that the one that says it's only for 64 bit systems? ABout $400? I'd like to save the $$ if possible but what the heck.

I7 980x 4.43G P6X58D 6G Mushkin 1612 6-8-6-24 1T EVGA GTX480 826/4200 Noctua DH14 Corsair 850W PSU 2 - 1TB WD HDD, 1 600G WD Vraptor for FSX Thermaltake Armor+ Case W7 64 Pro.

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Reply #76 - Nov 2^nd, 2008 at 11:21pm

NickN Offline
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FSX runs fine... the problem
is you or your system

Posts: 6317

BSOD from trying 1T?

Then you passed 2T but when set BIOS to 1T it BSOD?

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Reply #77 - Nov 2^nd, 2008 at 11:23pm

NickN Offline
Colonel
FSX runs fine... the problem
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vgbaron wrote on Nov 2^nd, 2008 at 11:18pm:

NickN wrote on Nov 2^nd, 2008 at 10:52pm:

You know.. its also possible those sticks just wont REALLY do 1800 under all applications. Mushkin just shows that for clockers and success in stability is based on simple benchmark stress tests for sales... that does not mean the sticks will run 1800 in all applications. FSX is a memory subsystem killer so you may be stuck at 1600 and the numbers we came up with earlier on those sticks

if worse comes to worse, could we get 450x9 with 1600?

No possible

To get 1600 and make use of the 4Ghz ability you have to run 482MHz on different strap because of how the math works. Unfortunately that quad wont do 9x482

Thats the restrictions of a non-QX processor and not having the multiplier

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Reply #78 - Nov 2^nd, 2008 at 11:23pm

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NickN wrote on Nov 2^nd, 2008 at 11:21pm:

BSOD from trying 1T?

Then you passed 2T but when set BIOS to 1T it BSOD?

Passed 2t but rather than set it to 1T IN mmeset I tried to reboot but it bsod on shutdown. Never got the 1t in

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Reply #79 - Nov 2^nd, 2008 at 11:25pm

NickN Offline
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vgbaron wrote on Nov 2^nd, 2008 at 11:23pm:

NickN wrote on Nov 2^nd, 2008 at 11:21pm:

BSOD from trying 1T?

Then you passed 2T but when set BIOS to 1T it BSOD?

Passed 2t but rather than set it to 1T IN mmeset I tried to reboot but it bsod on shutdown. Never got the 1t in

You can not change CMD with stability in Memset.. it must be done in the BIOS

So is it OK now? back to 2T?

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Reply #80 - Nov 2^nd, 2008 at 11:25pm

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NickN wrote on Nov 2^nd, 2008 at 11:23pm:

vgbaron wrote on Nov 2^nd, 2008 at 11:18pm:

NickN wrote on Nov 2^nd, 2008 at 10:52pm:

You know.. its also possible those sticks just wont REALLY do 1800 under all applications. Mushkin just shows that for clockers and success in stability is based on simple benchmark stress tests for sales... that does not mean the sticks will run 1800 in all applications. FSX is a memory subsystem killer so you may be stuck at 1600 and the numbers we came up with earlier on those sticks

if worse comes to worse, could we get 450x9 with 1600?

No possible

To get 1600 and make use of the 4Ghz ability you have to run 482MHz on different strap because of how the math works. Unfortunately that quad wont do 9x482

Thats the restrictions of a non-QX processor and not having the multiplier

That's what I thought but wasn't sure if there was a workaround. No prob

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Reply #81 - Nov 2^nd, 2008 at 11:26pm

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NickN wrote on Nov 2^nd, 2008 at 11:25pm:

vgbaron wrote on Nov 2^nd, 2008 at 11:23pm:

NickN wrote on Nov 2^nd, 2008 at 11:21pm:

BSOD from trying 1T?

Then you passed 2T but when set BIOS to 1T it BSOD?

Passed 2t but rather than set it to 1T IN mmeset I tried to reboot but it bsod on shutdown. Never got the 1t in

You can not change CMD with stability in Memset.. it must be done in the BIOS

That's the way I've been doing it but this time I got the BSOD at shutdown. SO should I try 1T anyway?

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Reply #82 - Nov 2^nd, 2008 at 11:29pm

NickN Offline
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vgbaron wrote on Nov 2^nd, 2008 at 11:26pm:

NickN wrote on Nov 2^nd, 2008 at 11:25pm:

vgbaron wrote on Nov 2^nd, 2008 at 11:23pm:

NickN wrote on Nov 2^nd, 2008 at 11:21pm:

BSOD from trying 1T?

Then you passed 2T but when set BIOS to 1T it BSOD?

Passed 2t but rather than set it to 1T IN mmeset I tried to reboot but it bsod on shutdown. Never got the 1t in

You can not change CMD with stability in Memset.. it must be done in the BIOS

That's the way I've been doing it but this time I got the BSOD at shutdown. SO should I try 1T anyway?

I usually set in BIOS... try in the BIOS to 1N

If unstable, try lowering 4 GTL settings to -50 and raise FSB TERM to 1.28

If you cant get 1T stable, go back to -40 1.25 FSB TERM and 2T

test 07 PL

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Reply #83 - Nov 2^nd, 2008 at 11:34pm

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booted

OCCT testing -40 1T

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Reply #84 - Nov 2^nd, 2008 at 11:49pm

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Never change CAS (first value) or COMMAND in Memset... only in the BIOS

If you are stable at 1T then test FSX

If its stable too, then lower PL to 7 and set high tREF and retest

you may have to sacrifice 1T or PL & or visa-versa. You will need to see which has the most impact.. with DDR3 1800 I would think PL 7 would be better to run over 1T

If you find instability with 1T and/or 07, try raising vcore to 1.31 NB to 1.55,.. if still unstable set vcore and NB back to 1.28/1.52 and try FSB TERM 1.30 and 4 GTL to -45 and then -50

As I said you may need to accept 2T at 1800 to get PL 7 but the goal is to work the numbers till you have a stable running install at 1800 PL 7 and/or 1T

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Reply #85 - Nov 2^nd, 2008 at 11:59pm

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OK stable at 1T - will test FSX and then play with numbers as needed

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Reply #86 - Nov 3^rd, 2008 at 12:03am

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lets hope this gets you where you need to be for 4050MHz

I am going to call it a night but please do post your results and if you still have problems I will check with Asus this week and see if there is anything else I can suggest

AS I said, 1T is not as critical at 1800 as it is at DDR2 speed so go for PL. I know you wont get PL6 at 1800 but 7 should be stable according to the math

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Reply #87 - Nov 3^rd, 2008 at 12:08am

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fsx froze - raising vcore & nb

THANK YOU for your help. I'll play with the numbers and post.

Night!

V

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Reply #88 - Nov 3^rd, 2008 at 12:16am

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no problem Vic

use the numbers and the method I mentioned 3 posts above and see where it comes together

you know the DDR3 1600 settings that work for sure now... you may even be able to push FSB up a tad higher than 400 with those. You can go back in the thread a few pages if you need those numbers and as I recall you managed PL6 and 1T with a stable FSX on those.

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Reply #89 - Nov 3^rd, 2008 at 12:50am

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1T -40 crash FSX
2T -40 crash fsx
2T 1.31 1.55 -40 crash FSX
2T 1.28 1.52 FSBt 1.30 -45 crash fsx
-50 crash FSX

maybe 1800 and FSX don't like each other no matter what. Sad

Sad

Think I'll watch tv for an hour and unwind the brain cells so I can sleep. I'll play with it again tomorrow afternoon

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Reply #90 - Nov 3^rd, 2008 at 2:24am

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LOL

Well Vic.. your learning how to deal with a tough clock.. we have not worked with Skew yet, only GTL so its not over

But I do want you to remember, you purchased good DDR3 1600 memory and not DDR3 1800 so that is a definite factor in this

I wil fire off some emails this week and see if i can get info about the changes in the BIOS since i last worked with it some months back however it is very possible the 1600 memory you selected is simply not suited for a CPU/memory intensive application like FSX on the x48 platform at 1800

« Last Edit: Nov 3^rd, 2008 at 10:39am by NickN »

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Reply #91 - Nov 3^rd, 2008 at 11:20am

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Agreed - should I post a question about the problem over at the Mushkin forum or would that just confuse the issue?

The tech, Greg, runs a RE with that memory but as you said, he may just be benching it andnot doing real word testing.

LOL - you keep preaching (a good thing) about how the parts have to work together and this is a good lesson.

The 400x9 1600 1t PL6 flight in FSX was exceptionally clear and smooth so I have a good fall back position while we (lol) tweak. I'd be lying if I said I understood what we've been doing technically but I can see the relationship and grasp the concept. Sort of like fine tuning the fuel/air ratio in an engine to get the max power for any setting.

Without question, if you ever get down in the LA area, dinner is on me!

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Reply #92 - Nov 3^rd, 2008 at 11:51am

NickN Offline
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I would let it go because I know he is going to tell you those sticks are 1600 and the tests he runs are for benchmarking

Yep.. we are looking for the 14.7 to 1 ratio of air to fuel with an increase on the MP and adjust the waste gate on the back side.. its a process and one that is actually very simple with the right parts out of the box.

Right now we know

450x9

333 STRAP

8-8-8-24 @ 1.9v DDR3 1800

PL 08

1.28 vcore 1.52 NB

1.25VTT

2T (and 1T

GTL -40

gets us a stable OCCT, at least that is what I read. The only problem here is FSX

I dont know if you tried PL 7 in OCCT at 1/2T and it passed

So the next step will be to set that back up and start wroking with CPU/NB SKEW and possibly a bit of DDR Skew

I cant do it right now but will post back here with values to start

This part of fine tuning is really a PITA and it all goes back to the memory chips being used.

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Reply #93 - Nov 3^rd, 2008 at 12:14pm

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NickN wrote on Nov 3^rd, 2008 at 11:51am:

gets us a stable OCCT, at least that is what I read. The only problem here is FSX

I dont know if you tried PL 7 in OCCT at 1/2T and it passed

Neg - assumed it wouldn't go with FSX.

Probably should have gone with the Corsair but when I saw the bench on he Mushkin and the easy availability of TS figured it would be a walk in the park. Shows you how much I know!

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Reply #94 - Nov 6^th, 2008 at 11:43am

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Interesting - thought I'd play a bit while waiting for your numbers so I researched the CPU and NB skew a bit on the Asus website. Basically got a range of 300 - 500 CPU and 100-200 NB. Given that the settings are in 100ps increments.

With the settings as the original mushkin 450x9 I tried various combinations of those settings.

well, the last one - 500 & 100 reset the cmos by itself.

The others were strange - it was like my graphics card went berserk! In FSX I got flashing polygons, jumbled mishmash of colors in the sky and then it settled down.

Decided since I really had no clue, it might be best to stop.

Would those ranges apply if I used the settings we came up with at 450x9? oh, the ranges in the BIOS go from Auto up to 1500ps delay in 100 ps increments for both CPU & NB

The education continues..................

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Reply #95 - Nov 7^th, 2008 at 12:18pm

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More followup - just to be one hundred percent sure - I reset the BIOS to the original 450x9 Mushkin clock and ran Prime95 v25.7 for over 9 hours using small fft's with no errors - max temp 63C. As I understand it, the small FFP's focus on the CPU/FSB and not memory so the 9+ hours should realistically eliminate CPU/FSB issues.

Which we already knew..

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Reply #96 - Nov 7^th, 2008 at 10:47pm

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however - ran memtest86 over 2 hours with no errors but tried to run prime95 blend test - system reboot in a little over 2 hours. Tried raising vcore from 1.28750 through 1.3800 in several steps - end result was system reboots - some almost instant.

Puzzled!

back to 400x9 & 1600 Sad

Sad

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Reply #97 - Nov 9^th, 2008 at 11:00am

NickN Offline
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Long week Vic... and I did not get anything back from Asus which is not strange becasue there have been times its taken a few weeks to get a response

a 500ps skew is quite enormous.. dont mess with it for now. I will post some settings to try perhaps later today

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Reply #98 - Nov 9^th, 2008 at 1:14pm

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Hi Nick - noticed your diminished presence - figured you had your head stuck in Gex Europe.

I'm through playing but I did find out something interesting, I think -

memtest8 for over 2 hours with no errors on the memory at 1800 8-8-8-24-1N should indicate that the memory can handle the load, correct?

And running the 450x9 Prime95 with small FFT's for over 9 hours should indicate that the CPU can handle it.

BUT, put them together and - zap! reboot time. That should indicate something.

Altho a little frustrating, I'm actually having fun - I like challenges and puzzled and I am very patient. LOL, the very first time I tried to clock the Q6600 I increased the FSB by 1 each time and tested. Took a LONG time.

Anyhow, I know you're busy and I'm not jumping up and down in a frenzy so in your own time - all is appreciated.

From the number of reads of this thread, I hope a lot of folks are getting as much out of my issues as I am.

Later....

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Reply #99 - Nov 9^th, 2008 at 4:20pm

NickN Offline
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vgbaron wrote on Nov 9^th, 2008 at 1:14pm:

Hi Nick - noticed your diminished presence - figured you had your head stuck in Gex Europe.

I'm through playing but I did find out something interesting, I think -

memtest8 for over 2 hours with no errors on the memory at 1800 8-8-8-24-1N should indicate that the memory can handle the load, correct?

And running the 450x9 Prime95 with small FFT's for over 9 hours should indicate that the CPU can handle it.

BUT, put them together and - zap! reboot time. That should indicate something.

Altho a little frustrating, I'm actually having fun - I like challenges and puzzled and I am very patient. LOL, the very first time I tried to clock the Q6600 I increased the FSB by 1 each time and tested. Took a LONG time.

Anyhow, I know you're busy and I'm not jumping up and down in a frenzy so in your own time - all is appreciated.

From the number of reads of this thread, I hope a lot of folks are getting as much out of my issues as I am.

Later....

Its most likely a skew problem... noise issue from the chips to the CPU and northbridge which is why you see 2 tests that work but put them together and its a crash

Yes, I am slammed with GEX and my own life Grin

Grin

I did not forget.. I was hoping to hear back from Asus about the changes to GTL which will point me in the right direction for skew.. I dont want to spin my wheels without knowing why they switched from multipler to direct millivolt on that setting, and if my assesment of the setting is correct... I may go ahead and post some skew values if I do not hear back soon

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Reply #100 - Nov 9^th, 2008 at 4:48pm

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NickN wrote on Nov 9^th, 2008 at 4:20pm:

Yes, I am slammed with GEX and my own life Grin

Grin

WHAT????? You have a life outside of here???

Unheard of - stop it at once! Grin

Grin

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Reply #101 - Nov 9^th, 2008 at 5:02pm

NickN Offline
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Ya..

Along with flipping property around the country I have a 72 Ferrari Dino 246 and a custom 61ft 2007 SeaRay Sundancer that gets my attention

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Reply #102 - Nov 9^th, 2008 at 5:22pm

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not much of a seaman but I understand yachts can eat up a lot of time. Now the Dino - for me that would be a labor of love. Had a couple of Jag XKE's that I was always tinkering with. Lot of folks in my neighborhood thought a Jag came with legs sticking out from under the bonnet.

Now it's just computers and woodworking that take up my time.

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Reply #103 - Nov 9^th, 2008 at 8:09pm

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My mustang is pissed at me because I tossed her aside for FSX! Sad

Sad

I do the oil changes on time but I haven't detailed her or waxed her for over a year. Addiction will do that to a person.

-Jim

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Reply #104 - Nov 10^th, 2008 at 7:08am

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Those of us who have owned off-shore yacht racers wouldn't call that thing of Nicks a yacht. Gin palace would be a better description. But let me tell you, motor or sail, that any boat is a hole in the water into which you throw money.

Nick I'll know tomorrow I hope how an i7 940 pairs up with an 8800GTX. If it doesn't it means scratching the bottom of the savings tin to see if I can find enough for a GTX 980 - a minimun of $750 in Australia!

Maybe boats are cheaper after all, certainly the depreciation rate is about the same!

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Reply #105 - Nov 10^th, 2008 at 12:20pm

vgbaron Offline
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[quote author=macca22au link=1225569427/90#104 date=1226318935]Those of us who have owned off-shore yacht racers wouldn't call that thing of Nicks a yacht. Gin palace would be a better description. But let me tell you, motor or sail, that any boat is a hole in the water into which you throw money.

quote]

As I said, I am not a seaman Grin

Grin

thought it a tad too big to be called a boat so yacht seemed appropriate.

But I LIKE "Gin palace"!! Roll Eyes

Roll Eyes

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Reply #106 - Nov 10^th, 2008 at 8:29pm

NickN Offline
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vgbaron wrote on Nov 10^th, 2008 at 12:20pm:

But I LIKE "Gin palace"!! Roll Eyes

Roll Eyes

so do the women

Quote:

Nick I'll know tomorrow I hope how an i7 940 pairs up with an 8800GTX. If it doesn't it means scratching the bottom of the savings tin to see if I can find enough for a GTX 980 - a minimun of $750 in Australia!

I suspect you will see some differences however without clocking that slug I dont see you getting anything spectacular out of it

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Reply #107 - Nov 10^th, 2008 at 11:03pm

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Ouch. I presume the 8800 can be clocked so I can only hope that the tech can.

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Reply #108 - Nov 11^th, 2008 at 7:21am

NickN Offline
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The magic in i7 is the communication rate between the memory and the CPU, and, the operations per clock as the CPU speed increases

When I posted I expected to see a 25-35% difference it was based on the 965 @ 3.2GHz. The 940 is based at 2.93GHz so although you will see a nice improvement which I do not doubt you wont see anything spectacular unless you clock that processor

Unlike the 965, the 940 is base multiplier locked. Changing the 965 base multipler is simple which is why they get top dollar for the proc. The 940 can be clocked assuming the motherboard allows Bclock access and access to Vcore and a few other voltages.

And I dont know what memory you purchased for this. The memory speed and timing will also have a defined effect on the result.

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Reply #109 - Nov 15^th, 2008 at 9:17am

NickN Offline
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Vic

I just got word that BIOS 0801 has solved some of the memory chip noise issues and is much more stable than previous releases

Its in BETA and not available at the Asus site through normal means

It may be some weeks before it is released

Until I hear back from my Asus contact I am going to assume at this point the voltages I gave you for VTT and GTL is correct based on correct electronic enginnering formulas and the fact you are stable with those settings in everything and in testing.. except 3D

Here is what we want to do next... This is the real pain in the ass part becasue there is no set value to work with. Even identical memory modules can display 2 different tweaking combos for skew so what you need to do is get it set back up as we had it booting and stable for DDR3 1800 in your OCCT and MEMTEST results and start with the following

CPU CLOCK SKEW

NB CLOCK SKEW

Here is the way to do this... Leave CPU SKEW alone and start with a 100ps on the NB. If that fails go to 200ps, then 300ps

Once you reach 300 on the NB and the stability has not changed then set NB to AUTO and then move to CPU SKEW. same deal.. 100, 200, 300

If you see no change then set NB to 100 (LOCK IT THERE) and then change only CPU to 200, then 300 then 400 and last 500... I dont see any reason to go above 500

If you see no change then set CPU to 100 (LOCK IT THERE) and then change ony NB to 200, then 300, 400, 500

If during any of those tests you start to see elongated stability times then assume the last setting made a difference and instead of moving to the next test.. increase the value of the SKEW you were working with again so in example.. if you see that a 100ps NB SKEW with a 300ps CPU SKEW definitely increased the stability, raise CPU to 400ps. If its worse then return CPU to 300 and increase NB to 200

After you pull your hair out and go insane with all that testing, and assuming you do not come across anything that makes any difference return the CPU and NB SKEW to AUTO for both and we switch to DRAM SKEW CONTROL

your targets will be slots A2 and B2 only all others on AUTO

DRAM CTL Skew on DIMM A2:

DRAM CTL Skew on DIMM B2:

Start out with quick and dirty changes... set BOTH equally to DELAY 50, 75, 100, 125, 150, 175, 200, 250

If no result next you are going to do the same thing with these two you did with NB and CPU except smaller steps

Start with A2 at AUTO and B2 at DELAY 25, then DELAY 50, then DELAY 75 ... all the way up to 250ps

If no result then swap and set B2 to AUTO and do the same with A2

If no result then set A2 to DELAY 50 and start working B2 from DELAY 25 and up and reverse that if no result

Vic this is pure trial and error and there is no science behind it simply because they have not invented a oscilloscope to come with motherboards so the user can see the noise and trim in real time

Once you go through all that if you see absolutely no change then there is nothing else I can suggest except wait for 0801 BIOS

or avoid all of this and buy DDR3 1800 modules

But do be aware 1T at 1800 is hit and miss on those Corsairs and at that speed you really do not need 1T

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Reply #110 - Nov 15^th, 2008 at 12:20pm

vgbaron Offline
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Burbank CA USA

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Nick -

I'm running the 0801 beta BIOS - it was available on the ASUS forum. Made no change as far as the "stock" 450x9 setup I was trying. I'll try these settings and report back.

I7 980x 4.43G P6X58D 6G Mushkin 1612 6-8-6-24 1T EVGA GTX480 826/4200 Noctua DH14 Corsair 850W PSU 2 - 1TB WD HDD, 1 600G WD Vraptor for FSX Thermaltake Armor+ Case W7 64 Pro.

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Reply #111 - Nov 15^th, 2008 at 2:52pm

NickN Offline
Colonel
FSX runs fine... the problem
is you or your system

Posts: 6317

Not sure if what they are passing around is the latest beta of 801 or not.. but use it for now

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Reply #112 - Nov 15^th, 2008 at 3:21pm

vgbaron Offline
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Big improvement!

Flew FSX over 2 hours. Only anomaly was when nearing Las Vegas got an instantaneous black patch of terrain then all was well - nothing else unusual.

0801 beta Bios
450x9
no skew
pl7
2T
-40 GTL
+60 NBGTL
1.28750 Vcore
1.51106 PLL
1.28566 Vtt
1.55072 NB

Now going to try 1T

I7 980x 4.43G P6X58D 6G Mushkin 1612 6-8-6-24 1T EVGA GTX480 826/4200 Noctua DH14 Corsair 850W PSU 2 - 1TB WD HDD, 1 600G WD Vraptor for FSX Thermaltake Armor+ Case W7 64 Pro.

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Reply #113 - Nov 15^th, 2008 at 6:27pm

vgbaron Offline
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2 1/2 hours FSX with no problems!

Think I'll leave it this way and see what happens.

Fingers, eyes and toes crossed!

I can google for various ways but is there a particular way you would clock the 8800GTS 640?

As usual - mucho gracias!

I7 980x 4.43G P6X58D 6G Mushkin 1612 6-8-6-24 1T EVGA GTX480 826/4200 Noctua DH14 Corsair 850W PSU 2 - 1TB WD HDD, 1 600G WD Vraptor for FSX Thermaltake Armor+ Case W7 64 Pro.

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Reply #114 - Nov 15^th, 2008 at 7:18pm

NickN Offline
Colonel
FSX runs fine... the problem
is you or your system

Posts: 6317

NICE CLOCK

Those voltage are right were I thought they should be...

I bet that BIOS was the key with a few minor voltage changes.. NB to 1.55 for one

CGTL NBGTL look right

Clocking the card is the same as clocking the CPU.. core less than 80c under full load without graphics errors ... memory you have to be a bit more careful because there is no monitor however I usually bring it up till I see errors with my core at least 20-30MHz less than what I know I can run it, then back the memory off 10 and raise core till I find the limit

Sorry about the holdup Vic but I think you probably would have been spinning your wheels on the 501 and 701 BIOS

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Reply #115 - Nov 15^th, 2008 at 7:32pm

vgbaron Offline
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No prob Nick. I agree and I spent the time reading a LOT of stuff on how the parts tie together. Can't say I understand technically but I have a heluva better overview of the process than I had before. Sort of like a lock - all the tumblers have to fit just right or it's no go. I'll give it a rest for tonight and get started on the card tomorrow.

2 1/2 hours in FSX to me is a good bench since that's the program I'm mainly interested in. Didn't bother with prime95 blend.

Now we wait and see for a bit.

BTW, what do you use to stress the vic core? 3d Mark?

I7 980x 4.43G P6X58D 6G Mushkin 1612 6-8-6-24 1T EVGA GTX480 826/4200 Noctua DH14 Corsair 850W PSU 2 - 1TB WD HDD, 1 600G WD Vraptor for FSX Thermaltake Armor+ Case W7 64 Pro.

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Reply #116 - Nov 15^th, 2008 at 8:49pm

NickN Offline
Colonel
FSX runs fine... the problem
is you or your system

Posts: 6317

ATI Tool v .26

SHOW 3D VIEW will stress the hell outta the core over time

as long as the 3D animation is showing.. it will heat the core up much hotter than FSX ever will

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Reply #117 - Nov 17^th, 2008 at 4:59am

T1MT1M Offline
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Hello!
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macca22au wrote on Nov 10^th, 2008 at 7:08am:

Nick I'll know tomorrow I hope how an i7 940 pairs up with an 8800GTX. If it doesn't it means scratching the bottom of the savings tin to see if I can find enough for a GTX 980 - a minimun of $750 in Australia!

im assuming you mean GTX 280??

well you can get one of those for $550 in aus. http://www.staticice.com.au/cgi-bin/search.cgi?q=gtx+280 whenever finding out a price in aus, go to staticice, its good

.

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Reply #118 - Nov 17^th, 2008 at 9:32pm

NickN Offline
Colonel
FSX runs fine... the problem
is you or your system

Posts: 6317

Hey Vic

Heard back from Asus

I was right. Its based on the formula and not the multiplier. They changed it from the original BIOS becasue they were aware of the stability problem and needed a way to fine tune the voltage over a slam multiplier which made it more difficult to deal with.

0801 is in fact the reason for your stability. They managed to find a set of variables that widened the window of stabilty without requiring skew however there are a few memory chips that still give it grief.. OCZ being the main problem child

FYI

in the future this is the formula for VTT (FSB Termination Voltage) and CPU GTL when the BIOS wants a setting in mv instead of the multiplier:

Its a simple algebraic problem

45nm CPU
Vtt x 0.667 + Y = Vtt x 0.635

65nm CPU
Vtt x 0.667 = Vtt x 0.635 + Y

NOTE: If its a 45nm CPU the answer will always be a NEGATIVE value, POSITIVE for 65nm

that is why yours is set to -40mv

I usually set the NB GTL mv between 60 and 70 and that would be POSITIVE so that is why yours is set to +60mv. If you see any instability, raise that to 65mv or 70mv and retest but I think you are probably set

The black square you saw has nothing to do with BIOS settings so dont mess with anything becasue of that... it would indicate a bit of saturation on the video buss

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Reply #119 - Nov 18^th, 2008 at 12:11pm

vgbaron Offline
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Burbank CA USA

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Ha! I figured you were right.

Could easily tell the 0801 BIOS was very different - everything came together as planned.

So far so good - I've noted a few anomalies but think they were due to my clocking the video card. After testing with ATI Tool, I've dropped it down considerably from where I had it originally.

Thanx for the formula - got it jotted down for future reference.

I don't normally fly FSX up at 30K but I am amazed at the clarity I'm getting. I don't pay attention to FPS but it is smooooooth!

BTW, if you ever get time to fly FSX for fun, there is a freeware a/c that is second to none. The SectionF8 F-86 Sabre (for FS9) - easily ported to FSX.

I7 980x 4.43G P6X58D 6G Mushkin 1612 6-8-6-24 1T EVGA GTX480 826/4200 Noctua DH14 Corsair 850W PSU 2 - 1TB WD HDD, 1 600G WD Vraptor for FSX Thermaltake Armor+ Case W7 64 Pro.

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Reply #120 - Nov 18^th, 2008 at 10:10pm

NickN Offline
Colonel
FSX runs fine... the problem
is you or your system

Posts: 6317

Well, I dont like making suggestions without being sure..

Even if the math and enginnering I post is correct that does not mean the application, in your case that BIOS, was using that math or formula.

I have seen Asus and other MB manufactures do some really off the wall things over the years so better safe than sorry

But you got it now so I would not upgrade that BIOS again and keep what you have which is stable unless later you move to DDR3 2000+ and need another BIOS upgrade for it.

but I would wait to see if they further improve the timing and lower the price before making that move

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Reply #121 - Nov 19^th, 2008 at 12:48pm

vgbaron Offline
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Fly Virtual
Burbank CA USA

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I think for now, I'm leaving well enough alone. My next upgrade will probably be a GT 280 but I'd like to see the price come down a bit first. My 8800GTS 640 is doing just fine.

Later, I'll look at the I7 stuff but not until the new $$$ wears off.

LOL - have to tell you this - was over at the Asus Rampage Extreme forum and someone had a question about calculating the GTL. So I pasted the formula you posted and explained a bit how to solve the equation. He was so happy that I got 3 "tech" points on the forum.

Last week I couldn't spell guru, now I are one. Grin

Grin

However, I am *very* careful with any advice I give that the equipment and situation is exactly the same.

I7 980x 4.43G P6X58D 6G Mushkin 1612 6-8-6-24 1T EVGA GTX480 826/4200 Noctua DH14 Corsair 850W PSU 2 - 1TB WD HDD, 1 600G WD Vraptor for FSX Thermaltake Armor+ Case W7 64 Pro.

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Reply #122 - Nov 19^th, 2008 at 8:39pm

NickN Offline
Colonel
FSX runs fine... the problem
is you or your system

Posts: 6317

Yep

"now you are is one" Grin

Grin

Welcome to the 'Pro" club

all you have to do is ask yourself... Would you ever go back to what you were running in DDR2?

Even clocked right on DDR2?

You can do better and the 280 would put the icing on the cake

Enjoy that tower Vic

I may be in SoCal around March to flip property so perhaps I will take you up on that dinner

break bread with good company... what more can anyone ask for

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Reply #123 - Nov 20^th, 2008 at 11:44am

vgbaron Offline
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Fly Virtual
Burbank CA USA

Gender:
Posts: 478

I would not have believed this tuning and upgrade would have made that much of a difference. I expected *some* improvement but since I'm not a frame rate junkie I wondered how much of an improvement I'd see. Still can't quantify it but it's just an overall feeling of smoothness and some great visuals. I've always had my system tweaked pretty well - where others were getting 8-9 FPS I was getting 14 - 15 and now where I used to get 19 & 20 FPS I get in the 30's & 40's but it's the visuals that have me open mouthed. I am a happy camper!!!

Hope you can make it down - good food, good conversation - what else is there?

I7 980x 4.43G P6X58D 6G Mushkin 1612 6-8-6-24 1T EVGA GTX480 826/4200 Noctua DH14 Corsair 850W PSU 2 - 1TB WD HDD, 1 600G WD Vraptor for FSX Thermaltake Armor+ Case W7 64 Pro.

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Reply #124 - Nov 27^th, 2008 at 11:51am

raptorx Offline
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There's too much confusion...
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NickN wrote on Nov 15^th, 2008 at 9:17am:

Vic

I just got word that BIOS 0801 has solved some of the memory chip noise issues and is much more stable than previous releases

Its in BETA and not available at the Asus site through normal means

It may be some weeks before it is released

Until I hear back from my Asus contact I am going to assume at this point the voltages I gave you for VTT and GTL is correct based on correct electronic enginnering formulas and the fact you are stable with those settings in everything and in testing.. except 3D

Here is what we want to do next... This is the real pain in the ass part becasue there is no set value to work with. Even identical memory modules can display 2 different tweaking combos for skew so what you need to do is get it set back up as we had it booting and stable for DDR3 1800 in your OCCT and MEMTEST results and start with the following

CPU CLOCK SKEW

NB CLOCK SKEW

Here is the way to do this... Leave CPU SKEW alone and start with a 100ps on the NB. If that fails go to 200ps, then 300ps

Once you reach 300 on the NB and the stability has not changed then set NB to AUTO and then move to CPU SKEW. same deal.. 100, 200, 300

If you see no change then set NB to 100 (LOCK IT THERE) and then change only CPU to 200, then 300 then 400 and last 500... I dont see any reason to go above 500

If you see no change then set CPU to 100 (LOCK IT THERE) and then change ony NB to 200, then 300, 400, 500

If during any of those tests you start to see elongated stability times then assume the last setting made a difference and instead of moving to the next test.. increase the value of the SKEW you were working with again so in example.. if you see that a 100ps NB SKEW with a 300ps CPU SKEW definitely increased the stability, raise CPU to 400ps. If its worse then return CPU to 300 and increase NB to 200

After you pull your hair out and go insane with all that testing, and assuming you do not come across anything that makes any difference return the CPU and NB SKEW to AUTO for both and we switch to DRAM SKEW CONTROL

your targets will be slots A2 and B2 only all others on AUTO

DRAM CTL Skew on DIMM A2:

DRAM CTL Skew on DIMM B2:

Start out with quick and dirty changes... set BOTH equally to DELAY 50, 75, 100, 125, 150, 175, 200, 250

If no result next you are going to do the same thing with these two you did with NB and CPU except smaller steps

Start with A2 at AUTO and B2 at DELAY 25, then DELAY 50, then DELAY 75 ... all the way up to 250ps

If no result then swap and set B2 to AUTO and do the same with A2

If no result then set A2 to DELAY 50 and start working B2 from DELAY 25 and up and reverse that if no result

Vic this is pure trial and error and there is no science behind it simply because they have not invented a oscilloscope to come with motherboards so the user can see the noise and trim in real tim

Once you go through all that if you see absolutely no change then there is nothing else I can suggest except wait for 0801 BIOS

or avoid all of this and buy DDR3 1800 modules

But do be aware 1T at 1800 is hit and miss on those Corsairs and at that speed you really do not need 1T

Nick, Will this strategy work with the Mushkin DDR2's? I've got a very similar setup to this but on DDR2. I'd like to run my system @ 466FSB. I can run w/o any clock skews or GTL changes at 460FSB but I start to error out in Prime95 (rounding errors) at 466FSB.

I've memtest'd the memory up to DDR1128 for 9 hours without any error and I only need DDR1120 to run my 466FSB. Thanks Nick and thanks vgbaron for letting me tag along.

-Jim

Rampage II Gene, i7 965 4GHz
Mushkin Redline DDR3 1600
XP x64 SP2
ASUS Matrix GTX285

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Reply #125 - Nov 27^th, 2008 at 12:56pm

NickN Offline
Colonel
FSX runs fine... the problem
is you or your system

Posts: 6317

that type of tweaking is only for DDR3

if you cant do it in DDR2 its not noise

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