Simviation Forum - I have a luxury problem, selecting a new computer

Oct 8^th, 2008 at 11:05am

Dutch60 Offline
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Yes I have been waiting around 6 mounds for Nehalem to buy a new computer, and now that the wait is almost over I know I have a huge luxury problem. Cool

The main things I want are running in almost silence and still being able to do a little over-clocking on the processor(s) not the video cards.
I know of the good new 4870X2 video card from ATI, but as I will only run FSX, IL2 and LockOn on this new system I selected nVidia for the video cards.
Furthermore I also know that three cards in SLI for simulators is definitely overkill, so that's why I choose dual SLI.
My choice is to wait until December for Core i7, but Skulltrail also still looks very attractive.
What would be your choice.

My current system is more than three years old but still able to run at 20 FPS in 1280x1024 at 4xAA 4xAF in not to overcrowded areas and not using a big bird.
The new system should be able to run at 30 FPS in 2560x1600 at 8xAA 16xAF in crowded areas and using a big bird.

Current System
Case: Antec P80
Power: Enermax 650Watt
Cooling: Air
Processor: AMD FX-55
Video: 2x 6800 Ultra in SLI
Memory: 2GB DDR2
Harddisks: 2x 400GB in RAID-0
Monitor: IIYama VisionMaster 512 Pro 22" CRT
OS: Windows-XP 32bits

Base for new System
Case: Zalman GT1000 Titanium black, red LED fan's or Lian Li PC TYR PC-X2000
Video: 2x EVGA GeForce GTX 280 HC, 691MHz, 1024MB, 65nm, 2-Way SLI (there is still no sighting of a G200b)
Floppy: NEC 3.5" Floppy Diskdrive 1.44Mb, Black
Media: Lite-On DH-4O1S 4x BD-Rom, Black, SATA
Harddisks: 4x Western Digital VelociRaptor WD3000GLFS 300GB, 10Krpm, 16MB, SATAII RAID-0
Sound: Creative SB X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty Pro, PCIe
Speakers: Creative GigaWorks S750 7.1 THX, 7x70W+1x210W RMS
Keyboard: Logitech G15 v2 Gaming Keyboard
Mouse: Logitech G5 or G9 Gaming Laser Mouse
Yoke: CH Products Eclipse Yoke (I already own various other CH Products devices)
Monitor: Samsung SyncMaster 305T+ 2560x1600 30", 6ms, HDCP, S-PVA + Dead Pixel incurrence
OS: Microsoft Windows Vista Ultimate UK, SP1, 64bits, Box, OEM

System 1 Standard 9770 (order now)
Cooling: Zalman Reserator XT Black Hybrid Cooling System (single loop)
Power: Enermax Galaxy EGX1000EWL 1000Watt
Processor: Intel Core 2 Quad QX9770 3.2GHz OC 3.8/4.0GHz (E0 stepping)
Motherboard: Asus Striker II Extreme, S775, nF790i, 4xDDR3, ATX BIOS 0704 (6xSATA)
Memory 8GB: 2x Corsair Dominator 4GB(2x2GB) DDR3 PC3-16000 2000MHz, 9-9-9-24, 1.9v

System 2 Skulltrail 9775 (order now)
Cooling: 2x Zalman Reserator XT Black Hybrid Cooling System (dual loop)
Power: Enermax Galaxy EGX1000EWL 1000Watt of 1200Watt
Processor: 2x Intel Core 2 Quad QX9775 3.2GHz OC 3.8/4.0GHz (E0 stepping)
Motherboard: Intel D5400XS, S771, 4xDDR2 FB-Dimm, EATX
Memory 8GB: Kingston KTAXE800K2/8G, 8GB 800MHz FBDIMM

System 3 Nehalem Core i7 (order in December)
Cooling: Zalman Reserator XT Black Hybrid Cooling System (single loop)
Power: Enermax Galaxy EGX1000EWL 1000Watt
Processor: Intel (Nehalem) Core i7 965 XE Extreme Edition 3.2GHz OC 3.8/4.0GHz
Motherboard: Asus Rampage II Extreme ROG, X58, S1366, EATX, SLI 16x16 or Tri SLI 16x8x8
Memory 12GB: Unsure because of vCore and memory voltage uncertainties
(option 1) 3x Corsair 1333C9DHX XMS3 DHX 4GB(2x2GB) DDR3 PC3-10666 1333MHz 9-9-9-24, 1.6v
(option 2) 2x A-DATA D9GTR Tri Channel, DDR3-1600+ 8-8-8-24 2T at 1.65V-1.75V

NAS Storage System
QNAP TS-509 Pro 5xSATA I/II hotswap RAID5+Spare 3TB free (very fast)
SATA HDD: 5x Samsung SpinPoint F1R 1TB, 7200rpm, 32MB, SATAII

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Reply #1 - Oct 8^th, 2008 at 5:00pm

NickN Offline
Colonel
FSX runs fine... the problem
is you or your system

Posts: 6317

skulltrail = worthless for FSX

SLi= worthless for FSX frame performance although being above 2xxx will allow much greater AA without loss of frames but thats it. At the same time the CPU is pounded by SLi so there is a give and take to get that 16-32AA other than that SLI is a joke for FSX

The DDR3 you selected for Nehalem is worthless. In DDR3 2GB sticks your target LOWEST timing vs speed should be

DDR3 1400 = CAS6
DDR3 1600 = CAS7
DDR3 1800 = CAS8
DDR3 2000+ = CAS9

Those are based on 3x2GB. For 3x1GB lower the CAS by 1 value but normally you will be forced to run the higher CAS with more than 2 sticks in the system... how well Nellie does with that is an unknown at this point and one of the things I am discussing with a Intel engineer this week.

DDR3 1333 at CAS9 is no faster than DDR2 566

That goes for any DDR3 purchase of 1333 memory

If it was me and I was going to throw down the gauntlet on the cost, which I will, I would wait for Nehalem

be ready.. the motherboard, memory and proc will be 1.5-2 thousand alone

« Last Edit: Oct 9^th, 2008 at 1:13pm by NickN »

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Reply #2 - Oct 10^th, 2008 at 6:06am

Dutch60 Offline
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NickN wrote on Oct 8^th, 2008 at 5:00pm:

skulltrail = worthless for FSX

SLi= worthless for FSX frame performance although being above 2xxx will allow much greater AA without loss of frames but thats it. At the same time the CPU is pounded by SLi so there is a give and take to get that 16-32AA other than that SLI is a joke for FSX

The DDR3 you selected for Nehalem is worthless. In DDR3 2GB sticks your target LOWEST timing vs speed should be

DDR3 1400 = CAS6
DDR3 1600 = CAS7
DDR3 1800 = CAS8
DDR3 2000+ = CAS9

Those are based on 3x2GB. For 3x1GB lower the CAS by 1 value but normally you will be forced to run the higher CAS with more than 2 sticks in the system... how well Nellie does with that is an unknown at this point and one of the things I am discussing with a Intel engineer this week.

DDR3 1333 at CAS9 is no faster than DDR2 566

That goes for any DDR3 purchase of 1333 memory

If it was me and I was going to throw down the gauntlet on the cost, which I will, I would wait for Nehalem

be ready.. the motherboard, memory and proc will be 1.5-2 thousand alone

Hi Nick,

Thanks for the reply.

Conclusions
1: I will not buy a Skulltrail system
2: I will have a second look at water cooling vs air cooling for the CPU and GPU(s)
3: I will stay with SLI and try to go for higher AA and AF, I also still think that for a 30" at 2560x1660 SLI is a must
4. I will wait two or three mounds for Core-i7

My hope is that the GT200b aka GTX290 will arrive in 2008.
http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2008/10/08/nvidia-270-290-gx2-roll

I know about the Core-i7 (Nehalem) memory the selection I made and this would not be my final selection, but there is not much information about triple channel memory sets that are comming for Core-i7.
I hope something like Triple Channel 1600+ MHz at Case 6 or Case 7 will become available for Core-i7 at lower voltages.

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Reply #3 - Oct 10^th, 2008 at 9:44am

NickN Offline
Colonel
FSX runs fine... the problem
is you or your system

Posts: 6317

The GTX 290 is nothing but a die shrink on the 280...

No difference in perf at all

Its exactly like the game where Nvidia rebrands the 8800GTX 768 and calls it a 9800GTX 512(in reality the 9800GTX is SLOWER than the 8800 768 in FSX)

2 or 3 cards in SLi is going to hit that processor like a rock so although you will get higher AA you wont get higher scenery ability in CPu load situations so if your goal is to have the AA and the scenery you are better off waiting for i7

Either way you are putting the eq of a hair blow dryer in the tower and no water cooling system is going to handle that without some major fans, high volume pump and a good size radiator running

Sli 3 blow dryers is really not cost efficient with liquid if the goal is noise reduction

If SLi actually provided perf increases for FSX I can see the use. Higher AA is not worth that cost. I have seen the difference in higher AA on 30+ screens.. its not anything spectacular

If ATI manages to get bot sides of their x2 card working in FSX, that would crush the 280 like a bug. The question is 'if' and 'when' that may happen in the driver or if it will take another ATi release to get it right for FSX

Besides.. they have both been screwing with the market for years and that 'competition' thing ATi and Nvidia was nothing put a price fixing game

http://yahoo.brand.edgar-online.com/displayfilinginfo.aspx?FilingID=6165503-1040...

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Reply #4 - Oct 10^th, 2008 at 12:54pm

Dutch60 Offline
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Hi Nick,

You must be the same Nick as on the AVSIM forum, what is your preferred forum? Cool

Quote:

"The GTX 290 is nothing but a die shrink on the 280..."

A know that but every shrink of any chip is a good thing

Quote:

"Sli 3 blow dryers is really not cost efficient with liquid if the goal is noise reduction"

I am only planning on only getting water cooled Dual SLI
I am almost sure that a water cooled GTX280 or 290 must be more quiet that a air cooled card

Quote:

"If ATI manages to get bot sides of their x2 card working in FSX, that would crush the 280 like a bug. The question is 'if' and 'when' that may happen in the driver or if it will take another ATi release to get it right for FSX"

The same is true for nVidia SLI, but for now if XCroseFire and SLI do not work 100% in FSX a single card GTX290 will be much faster than a single 4870.

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Reply #5 - Oct 10^th, 2008 at 1:03pm

NickN Offline
Colonel
FSX runs fine... the problem
is you or your system

Posts: 6317

Jimcooper who is experienced has worked with 2 of the best video cards you can get for FSX which even today STILL matches or beats the 280, the 8800GTX 768, SLi'd the cards on a QX processor and found out exactly what I said

not worth it

He took the cards out of SLi and used them to run multi monitor instead with much better results

By the way, SLI/Crossfire is all about the driver and with the exception of certain key elements being in the app, which most do.. has nothing to do with the app itself. SLi works in FSX but it only allows higher AA with a CPU cost. The more VC on SLi, the higher the cost

http://blogs.msdn.com/ptaylor/archive/2007/03/03/fsx-more-on-sli-and-multi-core....

Have at it.. but you are throwing money at very little result.. similar to the bill they just passed here in the states to bail out wallstreet

Its a Nvida money trap in FSX

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Reply #6 - Oct 11^th, 2008 at 5:58am

Dutch60 Offline
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Quote:

He took the cards out of SLi and used them to run multi monitor instead with much better results

So I can buy an extra two 27" monitors, and then I can connect the main 30" 2560x1600 monitor to the first GTX280 card and the other two 27" 1920x1200 monitors to the second GTX280 card? Cheesy

Quote:

Have at it.. but you are throwing money at very little result.. similar to the bill they just passed here in the states to bail out wallstreet

I am luckily not one of the 120000 Dutch people who had there money in the Iceland bank Isesave. Cool

So I can spend it on buying a very nice new Core-i7 computer from Intel, this must be a good thing for the US financial situation. Undecided

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Reply #7 - Oct 11^th, 2008 at 3:31pm

NickN Offline
Colonel
FSX runs fine... the problem
is you or your system

Posts: 6317

Dutch60 wrote on Oct 11^th, 2008 at 5:58am:

Quote:

He took the cards out of SLi and used them to run multi monitor instead with much better results

So I can buy an extra two 27" monitors, and then I can connect the main 30" 2560x1600 monitor to the first GTX280 card and the other two 27" 1920x1200 monitors to the second GTX280 card? Cheesy

Quote:

Have at it.. but you are throwing money at very little result.. similar to the bill they just passed here in the states to bail out wallstreet

I am luckily not one of the 120000 Dutch people who had there money in the Iceland bank Isesave. Cool

So I can spend it on buying a very nice new Core-i7 computer from Intel, this must be a good thing for the US financial situation. Undecided

yes.. the two cards will run multimonitor fine. Many run 3 monitors off a single 280 just fine

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