Simviation Forum - Standing at the brink

Jul 27^th, 2008 at 2:24pm

Boikat Offline
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Okay, got Gmax installed, the SDK glanced through it, have "project 1" picked. It's going to be relatively simple and slightly "different" from the usual.

(Steps up to the edge of the cliff, looks down, shudders.. Shocked

)

What's the best 'first step'? 3D model? I already have 3 view drawings, and have played a bit with GMAX to try to get a "feel" for it.

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Reply #1 - Jul 27^th, 2008 at 3:43pm

Alrot Ex Member
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Boikat: make a dummy model , don't do as many that start by making a complex Real aircraft that never get exported ,This is the way I did YEEEEARS ago Cheesy

Try to make a tube with couple box as wing and elevator ,in LODtool set a friendly name ,and then try to export it as mdl model..if you succeed then start adding doors simple doors ,the animate ,animate elevator ,flaps everything All this in this dummy model ITS DOESN'T HAVE TO BE SPECIAL IS YOUR LEARNING MODEL something like this:

once you got all the animation working ,in FSX that when you can start making a real aircraft ..

trust me buddy the most difficult is to succeed in the exportation,If you can export a real mdl as see in the FSX you have walk the 70% of the road my friend

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Reply #2 - Jul 27^th, 2008 at 3:49pm

Boikat Offline
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Thanks. Even the finished "Project 1" is going to be very simple.

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Reply #3 - Jul 27^th, 2008 at 3:49pm

Milton Offline
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Well, you could start here with your 3-views and calibration box.

http://www.aerodynamika.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?num=1184284524

Milton&&Dash 7, Aero Commanders, Howard 500, D18S, Spartan, XP47J, Beechcraft A28 (Grizzly)

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Reply #4 - Jul 27^th, 2008 at 4:07pm

Alrot Ex Member
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Milton wrote on Jul 27^th, 2008 at 3:49pm:

Well, you could start here with your 3-views and calibration box.

http://www.aerodynamika.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?num=1184284524

and BTW this Guy is one of the greatest designers, I ever meet ,He made the Howard 500 among many other classic, Milton Shupe , Most of all he was / IS my first teacher...he just caught my surprised he shown so suddenly, and is an honor to see you again

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Reply #5 - Jul 27^th, 2008 at 4:11pm

Milton Offline
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{{{ running over to shake Alrot's hand }}} {blushing} thank you my friend ... great to see you as well.

Milton&&Dash 7, Aero Commanders, Howard 500, D18S, Spartan, XP47J, Beechcraft A28 (Grizzly)

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Reply #6 - Jul 27^th, 2008 at 4:40pm

Boikat Offline
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Alejandro Rhodes wrote on Jul 27^th, 2008 at 4:07pm:

Milton wrote on Jul 27^th, 2008 at 3:49pm:

Well, you could start here with your 3-views and calibration box.

http://www.aerodynamika.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?num=1184284524

and BTW this Guy is one of the greatest designers, I ever meet ,He made the Howard 500 among many other classic, Milton Shupe , Most of all he was / IS my first teacher...he just caught my surprised he shown so suddenly, and is an honor to see you again

The Howard 500 is one of my favorites under the catagory of "twin engine prop"!

I will, of course heed any advice given

Going with alrot's first suggestion of creating a simple object to start with, using GMAX, I made a simple sphere. (I'll apply the "three view" technique when I get started on the real thing)

I see under the "file" an "export" function, so I should just asve the sphere (and shat sphere doesn't need saving/) to a folder? I noticed that the GMAX file t this stage is called a .P3D, so slapping a fake panel, sound texture and cfg and .air and calling the p3d a "model" isn't all there is to it, I'm guessing, (just to see the shape show up in FSX)

"I reject your reality, and substitute my own" Adam Savage, Mythbusters

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Reply #7 - Jul 27^th, 2008 at 4:54pm

Alrot Ex Member
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I don't know if you installed the FSX-SDK is in the DVD1,then install FSX-SDK-SP1 then , install FSX-SDK-Sp2 thru downloading in internet

here:http://www.fsinsider.com/downloads/Pages/default.aspx

after you have instaled these two SDKs you will find a folder

C:\Program files\Microsoft Games\Microsoft Flight Simulator X SDK\SDK\Environment Kit\Modeling SDK\FSX_GmaxGamePack......)( then you will place FSX_GmaxGamePack inside the C:\gmax\gamepacks\FSX_GmaxGamePack...)( then open the game you will be able to see in export Clouds and MDL files.......once you be able to see this export a box a simple Box (remember to name guid a friendly name or will failiure) into your desktop and see IF it didn't gave you problem while exporting...there's a thousand reason COULD give you problems by the time you exporting ..this is not easy my friend Embarrassed

Something important :::YOU will not open gmax from the gmax .exe /Inside the FSX_GmaxGamePack there is FSX_GMax this is the real software you will use:Send a link to the desktop Double click in this icon and create an access to your desktop ,you will not open gmax from the icon in your desktop anymore

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Reply #8 - Jul 27^th, 2008 at 5:14pm

Boikat Offline
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Alejandro Rhodes wrote on Jul 27^th, 2008 at 4:54pm:

I don't know if you installed the FSX-SDK is in the DVD1,then install FSX-SDK-SP1 then , install FSX-SDK-Sp2 thru downloading in internet

Have Gmax and SP1 installed. Is SP2 *esential*?

here:http://www.fsinsider.com/downloads/Pages/default.aspx

Quote:

after you have instaled these two SDKs you will find a folder

C:\Program files\Microsoft Games\Microsoft Flight Simulator X SDK\SDK\Environment Kit\Modeling SDK\FSX_GmaxGamePack......)( then you will place FSX_GmaxGamePack inside the C:\gmax\gamepacks\FSX_GmaxGamePack...)( then open the game you will be able to see in export Clouds and MDL files.......once you be able to see this export a box a simple Box (remember to name guid a friendly name or will failiure) into your desktop and see IF it didn't gave you problem while exporting...there's a thousand reason COULD give you problems by the time you exporting ..this is not easy my friend Embarrassed

Something important :::YOU will not open gmax from the gmax .exe /Inside the FSX_GmaxGamePack there is FSX_GMax this is the real software you will use:Send a link to the desktop Double click in this icon and create an access to your desktop ,you will not open gmax from the icon in your desktop anymore

Eeep!

Okay, I'll have to poke that with a stick and see if I can set it up like that.

Still poking. I have Gmax installed on "C", and have C:\gmax\gamepacks, which is an empty folder.

in C:\program files\microsoft games\flight simulator X SDK\environment Kit\modeling SDK, I have no FSX_GmaxGamePack. Just three folders and 16 files of various sorts. But no "FSX_GmaxGmePack. Am puzzled.

"I reject your reality, and substitute my own" Adam Savage, Mythbusters

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Reply #9 - Jul 27^th, 2008 at 5:39pm

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and, as you look through the "Learning Center" in the FFDS Forums, you may chance upon a "sticky" post, the text of which is repeated forthwith:

Milton Shupe consolidated a "How To" thread into an essay on the fine art of model production using a C162,
done with the novice in mind its a comprehensive tutorial done with Uncle Miltons legendary attention to detail and just the right level of complexity to get the message across without sensory overload resulting in reduced brain fps due to confusion.

http://www.flightsimonline.com/C162/

Kudo's to all involved , and most especially to Materfamilias Milton for his guidance and commitment .

New Tutuorial: 2008-07-20
Here is another tutorial that addresses attaching wings to the fuselage for better smoothing and light effects.

http://www.flightsimonline.com/tutorials/fusewing/index.htm

==================================

The important thing is to familiarize yourself with gmax, export a basic model, and go from there.

I like the suggestion to first export a basic model. If you get "something" into FS, that's half the job. PUshing vertices is "easy" ...

Felix/FFDS

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Reply #10 - Jul 27^th, 2008 at 5:48pm

Boikat Offline
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Much thanks for that info. Right now my brain is trying to go in two or five directions at once! (Is there a "smiley" for an exploding head?

)In the SDK, there's mention of a utility called XtoMDL, that looks like I'll be needing (unless it's in here somwhere, already)

I also suppose I should get that one little thing that I haven't got around to getting yet: A Vista compatable printer. Cheesy

Yes, and back to the "Learning Center in the FFDS forum...

"I reject your reality, and substitute my own" Adam Savage, Mythbusters

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Reply #11 - Jul 27^th, 2008 at 6:09pm

Alrot Ex Member
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Felix/FFDS wrote on Jul 27^th, 2008 at 5:39pm:

and, as you look through the "Learning Center" in the FFDS Forums, you may chance upon a "sticky" post, the text of which is repeated forthwith:

Milton Shupe consolidated a "How To" thread into an essay on the fine art of model production using a C162,
done with the novice in mind its a comprehensive tutorial done with Uncle Miltons legendary attention to detail and just the right level of complexity to get the message across without sensory overload resulting in reduced brain fps due to confusion.

http://www.flightsimonline.com/C162/

Kudo's to all involved , and most especially to Materfamilias Milton for his guidance and commitment .

New Tutuorial: 2008-07-20
Here is another tutorial that addresses attaching wings to the fuselage for better smoothing and light effects.

http://www.flightsimonline.com/tutorials/fusewing/index.htm

==================================

The important thing is to familiarize yourself with gmax, export a basic model, and go from there.

I like the suggestion to first export a basic model. If you get "something" into FS, that's half the job. PUshing vertices is "easy" ...

I'm going to take this into my forum, is not easy for me in English Cry

what I create is more confution..sorry just try to help but is impossible in english for me ,and this basic tutorials may be useful to give it to others..

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Reply #12 - Jul 27^th, 2008 at 6:10pm

Boikat Offline
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Slightly askew..

The XtoMDL tool hs this bit:

Quote:

To create Flight Simulator X models, aircraft or scenery, a new tool, XToMdl, has been introduced. The previous tool, MakeMDL, is now deprecated as are all models created from the ASM source. Models created with MakeMDL will still continue to function with FSX. For backwards compatibility, XToMdl will read .x files from previous versions of Flight Simulator and produce a model for Flight Simulator X. Conversion of materials from pre-Flight Simulator X models may result in issues related to specular power and color. This is usually due to these values being zero in the .x file.

Emphasis on the bold: If I understand, that would correct the "cannot display visual model" error for some of the ancient add-ons?

If so, I will not have to make a new HL-10.

"I reject your reality, and substitute my own" Adam Savage, Mythbusters

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Reply #13 - Jul 27^th, 2008 at 6:28pm

Alrot Ex Member
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You do not need from now Xtomdl thing material to read at this moment(gmax will use it for you) and you will get more complicated,than what you really need ,Install FSX-SDK into Gmax ,you are using gmax and gmax export direcly into mdl (Using XtoMdl) ,for your good Follow the gmax instalation in the SDK reading material , you need to install the package to gmax ,I will suggest you to look in the links Felix gave you ..

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Reply #14 - Jul 27^th, 2008 at 7:09pm

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Alejandro Rhodes wrote on Jul 27^th, 2008 at 6:28pm:

You do not need from now Xtomdl thing material to read at this moment(gmax will use it for you) and you will get more complicated,than what you really need ,Install FSX-SDK into Gmax ,you are using gmax and gmax export direcly into mdl (Using XtoMdl) ,for your good Follow the gmax instalation in the SDK reading material , you need to install the package to gmax ,I will suggest you to look in the links Felix gave you ..

Yes. Let me reload that.

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Reply #15 - Jul 27^th, 2008 at 9:09pm

Boikat Offline
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Okay, I uninstalled FSX SDK and reinstalled it in c:\GMAX. That didn't seem to do anything.

What am I missing?

Added: Okay, there's an SDK folder there, but I'm still at a loss as to how to turn that simple "spherething" into a spherething.mdl.

Note, the Cessna 162 toot is appreciated, but even that is ahead of my learning curve.

"I reject your reality, and substitute my own" Adam Savage, Mythbusters

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Reply #16 - Jul 28^th, 2008 at 3:07am

Alrot Ex Member
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Boikat wrote on Jul 27^th, 2008 at 9:09pm:

Okay, I uninstalled FSX SDK and reinstalled it in c:\GMAX. That didn't seem to do anything.

What am I missing?

Added: Okay, there's an SDK folder there, but I'm still at a loss as to how to turn that simple "spherething" into a spherething.mdl.

Note, the Cessna 162 toot is appreciated, but even that is ahead of my learning curve.

OMG

I didn't say unistall anything :Just put the FSX_GmaxGamePack. inside the gmax directory in gmax\gamepacks\FSX_GmaxGamePack then you will use the the "FSX_GMAX" to open the software ,If you have FSX-SDK all I ask was to download SP1 install then install SP2 because if you haven't install any service pack won't work too good , and if you install SP2 without installing sp1 will ask you to install sp1 before sp2

Sp1-sp2= FSX-SDK-SP1/FSX-SDK-SP2

FSX_GmaxGamePack it a package that comes inside the SDK only for gmax...XtoMdl is a software that you will never heard from it unless you were using 3d studio max instead Gmax...comprende?

Quote:

Note, the Cessna 162 toot is appreciated, but even that is ahead of my learning curve.

Ok there might be a confusion here , despite everyone can say YOU NEED TO EXPORT SOMETHING SUCCESSFULLY TO MDL the cessna 162 and general modeling is the other side of the penny ,and that the easiest part Boikat , Making aircraft is not just shape figures and make something similar to a plane ,Firt you need to know how to Convert Gmax files into a MDL for Microsoft Flight Stimulator COMPRENDE?, then you will see the Milton Shupe links and follow the shaping procedure ..

what the deal if you make a gorgeous and beautiful plane in gmax and you can't play it in FSX or FS9...BTW are you willing to make it using FSX-SDK or FS9-SDK because all the animations and procedures of this cessna 162 are based in makemdl9 ANIMATIONS(FS9-SDK) which is another story ...

« Last Edit: Jul 28^th, 2008 at 9:36am by Alejandro Rhodes »

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Reply #17 - Jul 28^th, 2008 at 7:33am

Boikat Offline
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I'm just about to step out to go to work, and will fix my boo-boo when I get home. Shocked

Yes, the shape is done. It's a sphere. It show up in the "scene" folder as "spherething.gmax."

Off to work I go!

"Read" you later!

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Reply #18 - Jul 28^th, 2008 at 6:48pm

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Okay, in the process of unscrewing things and re-reading. Downloading the SDK SP1 and 2. That will probably straighten things out a bit.

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Reply #19 - Jul 28^th, 2008 at 8:59pm

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PS. THe default SDK (from the disk, hereinafter referred to as SDK RTM) does NOT inlcude the gmax tools to create the FS-X model. For that, you need the SP1 SDK .... and subsequent SDK updates.

Felix/FFDS

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Reply #20 - Jul 28^th, 2008 at 9:11pm

Boikat Offline
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Felix/FFDS wrote on Jul 28^th, 2008 at 8:59pm:

PS. THe default SDK (from the disk, hereinafter referred to as SDK RTM) does NOT inlcude the gmax tools to create the FS-X model. For that, you need the SP1 SDK .... and subsequent SDK updates.

Aye, Capt'n. Just finished installing SDK SP1 and 2.

Now Isee the files that Alrot was talking about.

So, I am to take the SDK FSX_GmaxGamePack folder and place it into Gmax\gamepacks?

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Reply #21 - Jul 28^th, 2008 at 10:34pm

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[quote author=Boikat link=1217183049/15#20 date=1217293867

Aye, Capt'n. Just finished installing SDK SP1 and 2.

Now Isee the files that Alrot was talking about.

So, I am to take the SDK FSX_GmaxGamePack folder and place it into Gmax\gamepacks? [/quote]

Yes, young grasshopper (or padwan, according to your age). ALso, "send" the gmax_FSX icon to your desktop, and ONLY start gmax for FS-X from THAT icon (it sets up gmax with the correct settings to look for the plugins, etc.

Felix/FFDS

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Reply #22 - Jul 28^th, 2008 at 10:52pm

Boikat Offline
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Hmm, "grasshopper" or "padwan"? "Goofy old coot" would probably be more accurate. Tongue

"yea, I have seen fifty seasons of the swallows returning to Capastrano..." But don't let that get you, it only feels like twenty.

As to gamepack, done and done.

Okay, driver setup:

Software Z buffer or custom driver? Since I don't have any fancy add-on I'm guessing "Z" is good, but the next option is "Open GL" or "Direct3d"

EEny, meany, mieny, moe....

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Reply #23 - Jul 29^th, 2008 at 1:36pm

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Start with Direct3D... Avoid the OpenGL like the plague it is...

The Heidi software driver should be used only as a last resort. Wink

Bill
Gauge Programming - 3d Modeling Eaglesoft Development Group Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600-4GB DDR2 Crucial PC6400-800 GB SATA-ATI Radeon HD2400 Pro 256MB DX10 NOTE: Unless explicitly stated in the post, everything written by my hand is MY opinion. I do NOT speak for any company, real or imagined...

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Reply #24 - Jul 29^th, 2008 at 8:02pm

Boikat Offline
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Okay, got that set.

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Reply #25 - Jul 29^th, 2008 at 8:06pm

Boikat Offline
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Felix/FFDS wrote on Jul 28^th, 2008 at 8:59pm:

PS. THe default SDK (from the disk, hereinafter referred to as SDK RTM) does NOT inlcude the gmax tools to create the FS-X model. For that, you need the SP1 SDK .... and subsequent SDK updates.

Not only that, but when I installed SDK SP1 and 2, it "deleted" the originals and basically reinstalled itself. <shrug>

"I reject your reality, and substitute my own" Adam Savage, Mythbusters

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Reply #26 - Jul 30^th, 2008 at 7:36am

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Boikat wrote on Jul 29^th, 2008 at 8:06pm:

Felix/FFDS wrote on Jul 28^th, 2008 at 8:59pm:

PS. THe default SDK (from the disk, hereinafter referred to as SDK RTM) does NOT inlcude the gmax tools to create the FS-X model. For that, you need the SP1 SDK .... and subsequent SDK updates.

Not only that, but when I installed SDK SP1 and 2, it "deleted" the originals and basically reinstalled itself. <shrug>

"Yes" and "No" . THrough it all, it will read and find something from the original installation andchange things.

Now, remember, if you've installed SDK SP2, you should also have FS-X SP-2 (or FS-X ACceleration) installed.

Felix/FFDS

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Reply #27 - Jul 30^th, 2008 at 7:06pm

Boikat Offline
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Quote:

Now, remember, if you've installed SDK SP2, you should also have FS-X SP-2 (or FS-X ACceleration) installed.

<sigh> Going to download SP2 now. Will I have to reinstall anything after I install SP2?

"I reject your reality, and substitute my own" Adam Savage, Mythbusters

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Reply #28 - Jul 30^th, 2008 at 7:58pm

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Gee. Nobody said I *had* to have a graphics card for this.

I'm dead in the water until I can get a graphics card, maybe by the end of August (I have to repair my house central air first, both the fan motor for the outside cooling blower and the inside circulation motor have lost their bearings. Not cheap, even doing the work myself. Undecided

What's weird is I had installed SP1 a few days ago, yet when I tried to install SP2, it said I hadn't. Eh, micorsoft....
In the mean time, uninstalling SP2 so I can fly.

"I reject your reality, and substitute my own" Adam Savage, Mythbusters

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Reply #29 - Jul 30^th, 2008 at 8:18pm

Alrot Ex Member
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OMG dear lord Embarrassed

I forgot you couldn't renderize my aircraft ,yes the gforce 3 its too old , BTW the Service pack two SP2 was for only the gmax software, sorry Boi I forgot .. you need to buy one of the cheap at least as I told you before.. Undecided

I don't know what was in my mind buddy Embarrassed

edit:
But hey ! you didn't need to install SP2 for the FSX only for the FSX-SDK ,see there are 4 SP
1 FSX game
1 FSX-SP1 game
2 FSX-Sp2 game

this is another diferent thing and has nothing to do with the game ,this is only for gmax and 3d studio max

3 FSX-SDK
4 FSX-SDK-sp1
5 FSX-SDK -SP2

I have a secondary instalation in a control pc next to my main one
Is a pentium 3 with 320 RAM and an all in wonder raydeon Very Old card ,IT HAS FSX-SDK-SP2 AND IT WORK FINE without the game of course 1 game per machine , I use it to check the other models while Im making a new one ...

So you can unistall the game reinstall up until Sp1
But the FSX-SDK you can fully install the SP1 and 2 completly

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Reply #30 - Jul 30^th, 2008 at 8:48pm

Boikat Offline
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Alejandro Rhodes wrote on Jul 30^th, 2008 at 8:18pm:

OMG dear lord Embarrassed

I forgot you couldn't renderize my aircraft ,yes the gforce 3 its too old , BTW the Service pack two SP2 was for only the gmax software, sorry Boi I forgot .. you need to buy one of the cheap at least as I told you before.. Undecided

I don't know what was in my mind buddy Embarrassed

edit:
But hey ! you didn't need to install SP2 for the FSX only for the FSX-SDK ,see there are 4 SP
1 FSX game
1 FSX-SP1 game
2 FSX-Sp2 game

this is another diferent thing and has nothing to do with the game ,this is only for gmax and 3d studio max

3 FSX-SDK
4 FSX-SDK-sp1
5 FSX-SDK -SP2

I have a secondary instalation in a control pc next to my main one
Is a pentium 3 with 320 RAM and an all in wonder raydeon Very Old card ,IT HAS FSX-SDK-SP2 AND IT WORK FINE without the game of course 1 game per machine , I use it to check the other models while Im making a new one ...

So you can unistall the game reinstall up until Sp1
But the FSX-SDK you can fully install the SP1 and 2 completly

Back in buisness, then!

Installed SDK SP1 and 2 yesterday. Ready to rock and roll! Smiley

(But I'm still planning to get the video card you suggested some time in August, after I get my Air conditioner fixed!)

"I reject your reality, and substitute my own" Adam Savage, Mythbusters

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