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I would like to ask a special favor.... (Read 14723 times)

Jun 18^th, 2008 at 11:39pm

NickN Offline
Colonel
FSX runs fine... the problem
is you or your system

Posts: 6317

...If someone who is versed in panel/ aircraft.cfg work would like to take on a little project, I have one for you.

Simviation has a freeware P5 available but it is for FS2002/04

FS2004/2002 Martin SP-5B Marlin located on this page:

http://simviation.com/fs2004vintage96.htm

Bob70 who also flew with this aircraft in the Navy found this model and it works in FSX

http://www.simviation.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1213055568

unfortunately the panel gauges will not work in FSX and the aircraft needs some FSX love to get it up to snuff..

1. Edit the provided panel and replace FS8 gauges with (correct as possible) FSX versions

2. Edit the sound config to alias to the DC3 with instructions on how to alias to another sound if the user so desires

3. Edit the aircraft.cfg to comply with FSX and change the FX calls for FSX FX files

4. Edit the aircraft.cfg for contact points so the bow spray and wake FX work correctly and in the right location on the aircraft in FSX

5. Edit the aircraft.cfg for proper engine idle and torque and if you are versed in flight dynamics, a bit of work in that area as well. Some FD work would really be great and especailly on the correct lift/drag and drag in water TO/LDG

It looks to me to be a few days work with flight testing. The glass, animations and props are all working fine. it just needs a little FSX love to give it a rebirth.

I would do this and post a FSX update to go with the aircraft however I am very tied up with GEXn EU right now. I would not mind having this plane in my personal hangar and I know old salts like Bob70 would like to have it functioning correctly in FSX too. Phil Taylor is another who collects these vintage Navy boats and has expressed his desire to see this plane upgraded.

If someone here who thinks they can really make that plane shine in FSX would like to take this little project on, please post and let me know.

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Reply #1 - Jun 19^th, 2008 at 4:25am

microlight Offline
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Southern UK

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Sorry, Nick - don't have FSX.

Good luck!

Wink

Wink

BAe ATP for FS9 now available! www.enigmasim.com

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Reply #2 - Jun 19^th, 2008 at 9:32am

Brett_Henderson Offline
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I'm heading out the door in a few hours... weekend flight around Lake Michigan.. If this has not been addressed by the time I return, I'd be happy take it on..

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Reply #3 - Jun 19^th, 2008 at 11:24am

NickN Offline
Colonel
FSX runs fine... the problem
is you or your system

Posts: 6317

Brett.. that would be wonderful. I do have this posted at AVSIM and thus far no takers

I can run some numbers on the aerodynamics and see how they stack up to the original config however I know there are give and take areas with FS which differ

Here are specs

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P5M_Marlin#Specifications_.28P5M-2.29

It would probably be nice to have some input from Bob70 about the aircraft and how it flew. Perhaps have him do test flights with her and let us know what he thinks to get her trimmed in on flight dynamics

I will post a PM to him pointing to this thread

EDIT: It looks to me like the aircraft model is the P5M-2G or 2S Marlin (note the tail design) which is a slightly different than the general P5M-2 but the specs are close enough to each other.

http://www.uscg.mil/history/WEBAIRCRAFT/AC_Martin_P5M.html

http://aeroweb.brooklyn.cuny.edu/specs/martin/p5m-2g.htm

images

http://www.coastcomp.com/av/pres/kistler/nmna_135533.htm

http://www.jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=6226480

http://www.jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=6226479&nseq=1

http://www.jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=441819&nseq=3

http://www.jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=5684765&nseq=2

A repaint with some really nice weatherd textures and some upgrades to match the images would be really cool but I know that would be a job and 1/2. It would be nice if someone else with paint experience would want to perhaps upgrade her exterior with nice high res additions and some weathering.

« Last Edit: Jun 19^th, 2008 at 12:51pm by NickN »

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Reply #4 - Jun 19^th, 2008 at 12:39pm

Alrot Ex Member
I Love Simviation.

Nick , I didn't said anything ,because I'm not too good in aircraft.cfg in fact Is Brett who's making all my dynamics in my latest model..he's very good in this ..
in my earlier models before meet Brett ,my models, geometry , dynamics were exactly as the default models came ..only few changes in dynamics ..

You deserve all the help ,you been very nice with FSX users myself included..

Cheers

Alex

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Reply #5 - Jun 19^th, 2008 at 12:50pm

NickN Offline
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FSX runs fine... the problem
is you or your system

Posts: 6317

Alejandro Rhodes wrote on Jun 19^th, 2008 at 12:39pm:

Nick , I didn't said anything ,because I'm not too good in aircraft.cfg in fact Is Brett who's making all my dynamics in my latest model..he's very good in this ..
in my earlier models before meet Brett ,my models, geometry , dynamics were exactly as the default models came ..only few changes in dynamics ..

You deserve all the help ,you been very nice with FSX users myself included..

Cheers

Alex

no problem Alex!

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Reply #6 - Jun 19^th, 2008 at 1:25pm

merculiv Offline
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I can probably mod some gauges from the grumman goose and take flight dynamics from that since it seems like a close match. And then tweak them from there maybe. Would be a good start? I can show you some screenshots afterwards.

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Reply #7 - Jun 19^th, 2008 at 2:29pm

NickN Offline
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FSX runs fine... the problem
is you or your system

Posts: 6317

hmmmm

looking at a few numbers, the Goose would not represent this aircraft very well for flight dynamics due to the scale. Goose wing span is only 50ft compared to 117 and 1,406 sqft of surface compared to 375

This boat would not take off like the Goose in water... if memory serves me, and Bob would know better than me, most of the big boats require the pilot get the aircraft up on trim by forcing the stick forward a bit or they can not get airspeed however this hull is different than most bows I have seen and very unusual so it may cut the water much easier than most others.

I would need to research the plane and see if I can find any reports on flight dynamics and how it handled in TO.

Hey BOB! when you read this.. how about a bit of a history lesson on this plane and how she handled?

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Reply #8 - Jun 19^th, 2008 at 2:34pm

merculiv Offline
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I tried to match the gauges in the panel.cfg the best I could and I used the sound folder from the Grumman goose. You can try this out for fun.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=B26XI4EP

The texturing resolution in the VC is a bit low. But let me know what you think. Victor

merculiv@gmail.com

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Reply #9 - Jun 19^th, 2008 at 3:19pm

NickN Offline
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FSX runs fine... the problem
is you or your system

Posts: 6317

merculiv wrote on Jun 19^th, 2008 at 2:34pm:

I tried to match the gauges in the panel.cfg the best I could and I used the sound folder from the Grumman goose. You can try this out for fun.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=B26XI4EP

The texturing resolution in the VC is a bit low. But let me know what you think. Victor

merculiv@gmail.com

Wow!

thanks Victor!.. I will get a look at it as soon as I can.. I'm not at home right now

I will let you know how it looks and others can do the same.

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Reply #10 - Jun 19^th, 2008 at 3:29pm

Bob70 Offline
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Phoenix Arizona , USA

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NickN wrote on Jun 19^th, 2008 at 2:29pm:

hmmmm

looking at a few numbers, the Goose would not represent this aircraft very well for flight dynamics due to the scale. Goose wing span is only 50ft compared to 117 and 1,406 sqft of surface compared to 375

This boat would not take off like the Goose in water... if memory serves me, and Bob would know better than me, most of the big boats require the pilot get the aircraft up on trim by forcing the stick forward a bit or they can not get airspeed however this hull is different than most bows I have seen and very unusual so it may cut the water much easier than most others.

I would need to research the plane and see if I can find any reports on flight dynamics and how it handled in TO.

Hey BOB! when you read this.. how about a bit of a history lesson on this plane and how she handled?

Hi Nick

Happy to see this project taking off. Like I said I was not a pilot but part of the crew for awhile during my Navy days about fifty years ago. She was big and slow. Seems like it took forever to get airborne. You had to get her up on the step to get enough speed to lift off. Also on calm days in the early morning when the water was like glass we had to use jato rocket assist to break the surface tension of the water on the aircraft otherwise we couldn't take off. It was said she would barely fly on one engine. Grin

Grin

We never lost one I'm happy to say. If I think of anything else I'll let you know. Looking forward to It. Would like to have a livery in the Navys "Navy Blue"

Bob

PS. I remember at times when we didn't have jato we use to high speed taxi in big circles to get the water stirred up.

Camelback Mountain....Looking north from Sky Harbor Int. KPHX Phoenix, Arizona USA

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Reply #11 - Jun 19^th, 2008 at 4:07pm

NickN Offline
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FSX runs fine... the problem
is you or your system

Posts: 6317

Bob70 wrote on Jun 19^th, 2008 at 3:29pm:

NickN wrote on Jun 19^th, 2008 at 2:29pm:

hmmmm

looking at a few numbers, the Goose would not represent this aircraft very well for flight dynamics due to the scale. Goose wing span is only 50ft compared to 117 and 1,406 sqft of surface compared to 375

This boat would not take off like the Goose in water... if memory serves me, and Bob would know better than me, most of the big boats require the pilot get the aircraft up on trim by forcing the stick forward a bit or they can not get airspeed however this hull is different than most bows I have seen and very unusual so it may cut the water much easier than most others.

I would need to research the plane and see if I can find any reports on flight dynamics and how it handled in TO.

Hey BOB! when you read this.. how about a bit of a history lesson on this plane and how she handled?

Hi Nick

Happy to see this project taking off. Like I said I was not a pilot but part of the crew for awhile during my Navy days about fifty years ago. She was big and slow. Seems like it took forever to get airborne. You had to get her up on the step to get enough speed to lift off. Also on calm days in the early morning when the water was like glass we had to use jato rocket assist to break the surface tension of the water on the aircraft otherwise we couldn't take off. It was said she would barely fly on one engine. Grin

Grin

We never lost one I'm happy to say. If I think of anything else I'll let you know. Looking forward to It. Would like to have a livery in the Navys "Navy Blue"

Bob

PS. I remember at times when we didn't have jato we use to high speed taxi in big circles to get the water stirred up.

This information is VERY COOL and exactly what I was looking for. I was not sure if you were in the cockpit or not.. you did say you flew 'with' them.. no matter! What we need to trim it in is exactly what you provided and anything else you can think of.

Heck.. how often do you get someone who was in a vintage when they were not vintage and who knows how they flew??

LOL!

Keep posting anything you remember about her!

As for the paint.. it would be nice if someone who knows good technique could upgrade the textures. Perhaps if no one steps up I will make that one of my parts but I cant really put any dedicated work into her for at least a few weeks

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Reply #12 - Jun 19^th, 2008 at 5:03pm

Brett_Henderson Offline
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The Warrior I'm taking (the one I bought into), had to be pulled into the FBO to have the prop taken off and the hollow crankshaft inspected. I will go into its 100 hour inspection time limit on this flight. Since it won't used for instruction, that's OK.. except that DARN crankshaft has and Airworthiness Directive that HAD to be taken care of before taking it cross-country. Needless to say, I won't be leaving until early Friday.

Good thing is that I got to come back here and see the enthusiasm about this project. I'm itching to dive in right now, but I'm up to my web-page-ears in weather/flight planning Cool

Cool

Weather permiting, I'llbe back by Monday, noonish, and will check in to see the progress..

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Reply #13 - Jun 19^th, 2008 at 10:25pm

NickN Offline
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FSX runs fine... the problem
is you or your system

Posts: 6317

merculiv wrote on Jun 19^th, 2008 at 2:34pm:

I tried to match the gauges in the panel.cfg the best I could and I used the sound folder from the Grumman goose. You can try this out for fun.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=B26XI4EP

The texturing resolution in the VC is a bit low. But let me know what you think. Victor

merculiv@gmail.com

Well, there are no gauges in the 2D panel so that needs to be fixed and you are right about the VC.. thats not what I was hoping for on the clarity.

The sound set is not too bad.. all that needed to happen there was a alias to the Goose and not the entire sound set included because that sort of doubles files on the drive, but I do like the sound set other than idle.. a bit too high of a pitch since the Goose engines are small.

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Reply #14 - Jun 19^th, 2008 at 11:42pm

NickN Offline
Colonel
FSX runs fine... the problem
is you or your system

Posts: 6317

Brett_Henderson wrote on Jun 19^th, 2008 at 5:03pm:

The Warrior I'm taking (the one I bought into), had to be pulled into the FBO to have the prop taken off and the hollow crankshaft inspected. I will go into its 100 hour inspection time limit on this flight. Since it won't used for instruction, that's OK.. except that DARN crankshaft has and Airworthiness Directive that HAD to be taken care of before taking it cross-country. Needless to say, I won't be leaving until early Friday.

Good thing is that I got to come back here and see the enthusiasm about this project. I'm itching to dive in right now, but I'm up to my web-page-ears in weather/flight planning Cool

Cool

Weather permiting, I'llbe back by Monday, noonish, and will check in to see the progress..

Sounds good Brett

I will see if I can locate tech info on this boat... If not I am not sure where we can get the correct info for the aircraft geometry section except from a publication like this

http://www.aviationbookcentre.com/__12_product_info3_asp2_5_prdID4_58365_usrID1_...'

The Oswald on those boats as I recall will be low.. and if I remember my E factor inviscid/viscous drag math on those old wing mounted engine aircraft one must subtract somewhere between 4 to 6% from solve 'E' due to prop down-wash. Cant remember exactly but I do remember the wing mounted engines cause a drop in eff. E is probably somewhere around 68-72 on that monster @ 1,406 ft² and 118ft span but according to what Bob reported I would not be surprised if it calc'd out to be lower than the space shuttle, like in the 55-65 range to take into account the sim fight model and how it tends to render a bit too much lift, torque and Pfactor with some planes. From what Bob says it drops quickly without both engines running, just like the shuttle without its 18-22 degree approach angle, but it does not weigh 215K lbs.

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Reply #15 - Jun 21^st, 2008 at 8:19pm

NickN Offline
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FSX runs fine... the problem
is you or your system

Posts: 6317

Hey guys!

Jim Hodkinson over at AV... is re-doing the 2D and VC with lighting!

http://forums.avsim.net/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=122&topic_id=36657&mode=...

So what we need to focus on here is the config for the contact points, water FX and the flight dynamics and perhaps some paint work, but the repaint would be the last item.

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Reply #16 - Jun 22^nd, 2008 at 6:48pm

Brett_Henderson Offline
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OK.. I'm starting on the cfg/air files..

Gonna start from scratch using real data (weights, dimensions, geometry, load stations, engine placement, tank locations, control-surface locations, etc.)...

I've never tried to match an FSX style cfg/air file set to an FS9 model, but I don't see why it wouldn't work. If it is a problem, the geometry/dynamics data can be transposed into a regular, FS9 cfg file.

When we have a working panel (VC or 2D, doesn't matter for testing purpose), hook me up with it so I may begin test flights..

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Reply #17 - Jun 22^nd, 2008 at 8:50pm

NickN Offline
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FSX runs fine... the problem
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Posts: 6317

Brett_Henderson wrote on Jun 22^nd, 2008 at 6:48pm:

OK.. I'm starting on the cfg/air files..

Gonna start from scratch using real data (weights, dimensions, geometry, load stations, engine placement, tank locations, control-surface locations, etc.)...

I've never tried to match an FSX style cfg/air file set to an FS9 model, but I don't see why it wouldn't work. If it is a problem, the geometry/dynamics data can be transposed into a regular, FS9 cfg file.

When we have a working panel (VC or 2D, doesn't matter for testing purpose), hook me up with it so I may begin test flights..

Cool beans Brett... I will keep up on the progress of the panel

Also,... its my understanding AirEd with the latest ini file is one of the best for working the .air files in FSX

http://pagesperso-orange.fr/hsors/fsairfile.html

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Reply #18 - Jun 24^th, 2008 at 2:17pm

Jim Hodkinson Offline
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Hi Nick

I though it would be easier to communicate if I became a member, so here I am.

Anyway a quick update on the state of play with the Marlin panel, firstly I had to scrap the first attempt as I thought it looked a little to much FS2002, secondly I had to alter the aircraft.cfg and the SP-5B.air files to remove the reference to turbine engines, as the gauges I’m using are from the DC-7 which used the similar engines.

I see from reading the forum entries that Brett is going to have a go at the aircraft.cfg and the air file, if so for the gauges to function correctly or as near as can be the engines have to be piston engines and not the turbine as in the original, the aircraft.cfg and the air file that I ahev been using for my panel tests have been modified using the Martin Mars as a base, she takes of from land well but for some reason she will not move from a standing start when in her natural element i.e. in the water.

If anybody is interested in further modifying my modification, the complete aircraft including panel and gauges including a home made sound set (I can’t give credit for this as I made it a long time ago from mixture of freeware aircraft).

The gauges by the way are from California Classics. I just removed the Z_ prefix from the gauge folders, as I was going to modify the gauges to make a full working overhead, you can view the originals at

http://www.calclassic.com/panels.htm

The download link for the modified Marlin is

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=3THIWEPS

I hope this is of some use.

Jim Hodkinson

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Reply #19 - Jun 24^th, 2008 at 8:59pm

NickN Offline
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FSX runs fine... the problem
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Posts: 6317

Jim Hodkinson wrote on Jun 24^th, 2008 at 2:17pm:

Hi Nick

I though it would be easier to communicate if I became a member, so here I am.

Anyway a quick update on the state of play with the Marlin panel, firstly I had to scrap the first attempt as I thought it looked a little to much FS2002, secondly I had to alter the aircraft.cfg and the SP-5B.air files to remove the reference to turbine engines, as the gauges I’m using are from the DC-7 which used the similar engines.

I see from reading the forum entries that Brett is going to have a go at the aircraft.cfg and the air file, if so for the gauges to function correctly or as near as can be the engines have to be piston engines and not the turbine as in the original, the aircraft.cfg and the air file that I ahev been using for my panel tests have been modified using the Martin Mars as a base, she takes of from land well but for some reason she will not move from a standing start when in her natural element i.e. in the water.

If anybody is interested in further modifying my modification, the complete aircraft including panel and gauges including a home made sound set (I can’t give credit for this as I made it a long time ago from mixture of freeware aircraft).

The gauges by the way are from California Classics. I just removed the Z_ prefix from the gauge folders, as I was going to modify the gauges to make a full working overhead, you can view the originals at

http://www.calclassic.com/panels.htm

The download link for the modified Marlin is

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=3THIWEPS

I hope this is of some use.

Jim Hodkinson

Hi JIM!

Thanks for stopping by and a BIG thanks for working on this!

I will try these changes ASAP and I am sure Brett will be by and see this!

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Reply #20 - Jun 24^th, 2008 at 9:30pm

NickN Offline
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FSX runs fine... the problem
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Posts: 6317

Jim.. question

The 2D panel is sharp as a tack but the VC panel is blurry on my system. Is this a product of the resolution in the VC itself?

I see what you mean about the water.. its almost like the engines are too close to the water.. I could not start them in water and when I landed in water they choked out like the sim reads them as in the water or close to it

Also, I noticed the drag in water was quite large which may be related to the engines and how high the model is sitting in the water to the sim.

The gear being down does need to have the contact points looked at. the rear wheel seems OK but the front wheel contact points seem way off... Brett can probably grab a look at that.

Is there any way to increase the resolution/sharpness of the VC gauges?

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Reply #21 - Jun 24^th, 2008 at 10:28pm

Brett_Henderson Offline
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I'm on the case

(scratch building contact points without the source file takes time)

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Reply #22 - Jun 24^th, 2008 at 10:59pm

Brett_Henderson Offline
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The "landing gear" have no animated suspension travel, which is understandable, as this is a flying boat. The modeled gear represent "beaching gear", which as far as I can tell were attached to the hull, strictly for the purpose of getting her up and out of the water for storage or maintanance. They aren't used for takeoff/landing, or even powered taxiing, as far as I can tell...

ANYway.. I'm figuring out float points, engine placement and prop diameter now.. I'll move on to accurate geometry and flight dynamics soon..

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Reply #23 - Jun 24^th, 2008 at 11:32pm

Bob70 Offline
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[quote author=Brett_Henderson link=1213846769/15#22 date=1214362779]The modeled gear represent "beaching gear", which as far as I can tell were attached to the hull, strictly for the purpose of getting her up and out of the water for storage or maintanance. They aren't used for takeoff/landing, or even powered taxiing, as far as I can tell...

quote]

That is completely correct. Used strictly for the purpose of getting her up and out of the water for storage or maintenance. They aren't used for takeoff/landing, or even

powered taxiing

. We never left them in the water. Took them out after every flight and hosed them down. Salt water is pretty hard on them. As far as using them within the Sim though it makes it pretty easy to taxi into the water and then hit the G key.

Bob

Camelback Mountain....Looking north from Sky Harbor Int. KPHX Phoenix, Arizona USA

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Reply #24 - Jun 25^th, 2008 at 3:48am

Jim Hodkinson Offline
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Hi Everyone

Sorry about the VC panel blurries, that ones down to me as I forgot to adjust the panel.cfg entry after editing.

At the moment, without redrawing all the bitmaps and possibly editing the XML code (not impossible) the best that I can offer is this (if the attachment works).

To do this, replace the following in the VC section of the Panel.cfg file

[Vcockpit01]
Background_color=0,0,0
size_mm=972,329
visible=1
pixel_size=512,512s
texture=$G1_Mat

With

[Vcockpit01]
Background_color=0,0,0
size_mm=972,329
visible=1
pixel_size=1280,1280s
texture=$G1_Mat

You can try other values, but be careful as the higher you go the bigger the possible effect on your frame rates.

Hope it helps, and I’ve just notice that zoomed that far in the VC gauges need a little more work, I’ll get onto that and return.

Jim Hodkinson

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Reply #25 - Jun 25^th, 2008 at 3:59am

Jim Hodkinson Offline
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Hi Again

The attachment apparently did not work, even though the file is only 46k.

Anyway the best thing is to just try the new settings and see what you think.

Jim Hodkinson

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Reply #26 - Jun 25^th, 2008 at 12:44pm

NickN Offline
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FSX runs fine... the problem
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Posts: 6317

Jim Hodkinson wrote on Jun 25^th, 2008 at 3:59am:

Hi Again

The attachment apparently did not work, even though the file is only 46k.

Anyway the best thing is to just try the new settings and see what you think.

Jim Hodkinson

Thanks Jim!

I am running 1920x1200 so I thought perhaps it was becasue of my screen resolution but if that can be cleaned up it would be really cool

I know the VC is not that great to begin with but if we can at least clean things up a bit and sharpen those gauges it would really go a long way in helping that VC look better

I will check this out as soon as I can

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Reply #27 - Jun 25^th, 2008 at 12:47pm

NickN Offline
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FSX runs fine... the problem
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Posts: 6317

Brett_Henderson wrote on Jun 24^th, 2008 at 10:59pm:

The "landing gear" have no animated suspension travel, which is understandable, as this is a flying boat. The modeled gear represent "beaching gear", which as far as I can tell were attached to the hull, strictly for the purpose of getting her up and out of the water for storage or maintanance. They aren't used for takeoff/landing, or even powered taxiing, as far as I can tell...

ANYway.. I'm figuring out float points, engine placement and prop diameter now.. I'll move on to accurate geometry and flight dynamics soon..

Awesome Brett!

You da Man!

Bob.. if I can get to it I will look into a paint option for Navy Blue. As mentioned earlier it may be a few weeks because of my GEX schedule

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Reply #28 - Jun 25^th, 2008 at 1:30pm

NickN Offline
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FSX runs fine... the problem
is you or your system

Posts: 6317

Jim Hodkinson wrote on Jun 25^th, 2008 at 3:48am:

Hi Everyone

Sorry about the VC panel blurries, that ones down to me as I forgot to adjust the panel.cfg entry after editing.

At the moment, without redrawing all the bitmaps and possibly editing the XML code (not impossible) the best that I can offer is this (if the attachment works).

To do this, replace the following in the VC section of the Panel.cfg file

[Vcockpit01]
Background_color=0,0,0
size_mm=972,329
visible=1
pixel_size=512,512s
texture=$G1_Mat

With

[Vcockpit01]
Background_color=0,0,0
size_mm=972,329
visible=1
pixel_size=1280,1280s
texture=$G1_Mat

You can try other values, but be careful as the higher you go the bigger the possible effect on your frame rates.

Hope it helps, and I’ve just notice that zoomed that far in the VC gauges need a little more work, I’ll get onto that and return.

Jim Hodkinson

Jim.. took a break and checked it out

it worked

of course I have a beefy system so FPS is never a problem

Could be a bit sharper but hey... I can read them now and they are not totally fuzzy and look better than the panel for quality now
LOL!

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Reply #29 - Jun 26^th, 2008 at 8:36am

Jim Hodkinson Offline
Colonel
Hello!
Manchester U.K

Gender:
Posts: 57

Hi Nick

Glad to see it worked.

As I’m now getting gauge blind with all the editing whilst listening to Hendrix (it helps), I was just wondering if somebody would road test the latest panel.cfg, and get back with any requests, suggestions (polite ones) or ideas for the panel.

The latest panel.cfg

// This Panel.cfg file created by FS Panel Studio panel editor utility - http://www.fspanelstudio.com
// Built Thursday, June 26, 2008 at 13:12 FSPS Build:20340

[Window Titles]
Window00=Main Panel
Window01=GPS Panel
Window02=Radio
Window03=NO Panel

//--------------------------------------------------------
[Window00]
file=Main_Panel.bmp
size_mm=1024,768
window_size_ratio=1.000
position=7
visible=1
ident=0

gauge00=Beech_Baron!Beacon Lights, 112,588,23,35
gauge01=Beech_Baron!Nav Lights, 135,588,23,36
gauge02=Beech_Baron!Taxi Lights, 158,588,23,35
gauge03=Beech_Baron!Landing Lights, 181,588,23,35
gauge04=Magnetic_Compass!Magnetic-Compass, 791,34,52,52
gauge05=Beech_Baron!Panel Lights, 89,588,23,35
gauge06=SimIcons1024!ATC Icon, 449,656,19,19
gauge07=SimIcons1024!GPS Icon, 468,656,19,19
gauge08=SimIcons1024!Map Icon, 487,656,19,19
gauge09=Beech_Baron!OMI Lights, 593,377,18,56
gauge10=DC6KM!BMEP12, 765,347,99,98
gauge11=DC6KM!OIL_PRESS_12, 765,450,99,98
gauge12=DC6KM!BOOST_12, 650,450,99,98
gauge13=DC6KM!MAN2_12, 880,449,99,98
gauge14=DC6KM!FF_12, 816, 567 ,73,72
gauge15=DC6KM!FUEL_QUANT_POUNDS_LEFT, 662,567,51,51
gauge16=DC6KM!FUEL_QUANT_POUNDS_RIGHT, 736,566,51,51
gauge17=DC6KM!FUEL_PRESS_12, 918,577,51,51
gauge18=DC6KMTG!ALTIMETER, 240,350,111,111
gauge19=DC6KMTG!VERTICAL_SPEED_INDICATOR, 245,465,99,101
gauge20=DC6KM!TURN_INDICATOR, 491,464,99,99
gauge21=DC6KM!VOR1, 336,577,74,73
gauge22=DC6KM!ADF, 244,578,74,73
gauge23=DC6KM!RMI, 368,465,99,101
gauge24=DC6KM!DIR_GYRO, 430,577,74,73
gauge25=DC6KM!GYRO_HORIZON, 358,336,113,116
gauge26=DC6KM!FLAP, 258,687,51,50
gauge27=DC6KM!GEAR_NOSE_DOWN, 350,689,29,29
gauge28=DC6KM!GEAR_LEFT_DOWN, 329,723,29,29
gauge29=DC6KM!GEAR_RIGHT_DOWN, 372,722,29,29
gauge30=DC6KMTG!AIRSPEED_7, 488,355,98,97
gauge31=DC6KM!ELEV_TRIM2, 144,482,73,73
gauge32=DC6KM!RPM_1, 651,350,99,98
gauge33=DC6KM!RPM_2, 880,347,99,98
gauge34=DC6KM!VOR2, 530,580,65,64
gauge35=DC6KM!Radio, 525,656,19,19
gauge36=DC6KM!NO_PANEL, 506,656,19,19
gauge37=Bendix_king_radio!Bendix-King Radio AP, 685,241,259,61

//--------------------------------------------------------
[Window01]
Background_color=0,0,0
size_mm=252,206
window_size_ratio=1.000
position=8
visible=0
ident=GPS_PANEL
window_size= 0.250, 0.258
window_pos= 0.010, 0.730

gauge00=fs9gps!gps_500, 1,1,252,204

//--------------------------------------------------------
[Window02]
Background_color=0,0,0
size_mm=1228,222
window_size_ratio=1.000
position=0
visible=0
ident=10001
render_3d_window=0
window_size= 0.740, 0.180
window_pos= 0.020, 0.010

gauge00=DC6KMTG!RADIO_STACK, 0,0,1168,222

//--------------------------------------------------------
[Window03]
file=NO_PANEL.bmp
size_mm=1600
window_size_ratio=1.000
position=7
visible=0
ident=10006
window_size= 1.000, 1.000
window_pos= 0.000, 0.000

gauge00=DC6KM!BACK, 32,816,27,27
gauge01=DC6KM!NO_ALTIMETER, 289,464,141,145
gauge02=DC6KM!LITE_NO_SWITCH, 999,38,85,85
gauge03=DC6KM!ADF1_RADIO, 976,349,292,464
gauge04=DC6KM!ADF2_RADIO, 1272,349,292,464
gauge05=DC6KM!NO_RADIO_STACK, 29,34,829,222
gauge06=DC6KM!NO AVIONICS MASTER, 1016,190,57,76
gauge07=DC6KM!NO_VOLTS, 1110,54,148,144
gauge08=DC6KM!NO_AMPS, 1291,55,148,144
gauge09=DC6KM!AVIONICS_LITE, 54,737,22,24
gauge10=DC6KM!AVIONICS_LITE, 1100,254,25,26
gauge11=DC6KM!RADAR_ALT, 654,491,153,157
gauge12=DC6KM!RAD_ALT_HEIGHT_SW, 579,511,24,39
gauge13=DC6KM!RAD_ALT_SW, 574,689,84,84
gauge14=DC6KM!RAD_ALT_LITE, 585, 637 ,20,21
gauge15=DC6KM!GPS, 59,816,27,27
gauge16=DC6KM!NO_CLOCK, 48,593,82,89
gauge17=DC6KM!NO_OAT2, 51,477,76,77
gauge18=DC6KM!NO_RADIO_COMPASS, 152,472,129,129
gauge19=DC6KM!NO_NAV1_RADIAL, 152,623,131,131
gauge20=DC6KM!NO_RMI, 293,325,132,127
gauge21=DC6KM!NO_ADF, 150,304,125,127
gauge22=DC6KM!MARKER AUDIBLE, 1507,65,32,56
gauge23=DC6KM!ADF_SELECT_SWITCH, 195,437,37,21
gauge24=DC6KM!Checklist, 86,816,27,27
gauge25=DC6KM!Map, 113,816,27,27
gauge26=DC6KM!NO_ZULU_CLOCK, 164,870,150,148
gauge27=DC6KM!RADAR SW, 95,732,30,50
gauge28=DC6KM!RADAR, 567,895,290,290
gauge29=DC6KM!CD_PANEL, 1245,951,54,50
gauge30=DC6KM!NAV-GPS, 1497,193,61,26
gauge31=DC6KMTG!NO_AIRSPEED, 297,623,129,130
gauge32=Bendix_king_radio!Bendix-King Radio AP, 521,279,349,109

//--------------------------------------------------------
[Vcockpit01]
Background_color=0,0,0
size_mm=972,329
visible=1
pixel_size=1280,1280s
texture=$G1_Mat

gauge00=Beech_Baron!OMI Lights, 362,51,9,27
gauge01=DC6KMTG!ALTIMETER, 150,34,65,69
gauge02=DC6KM!GYRO_HORIZON, 221,23,67,75
gauge03=DC6KMTG!AIRSPEED_7, 295,35,61,65
gauge04=DC6KMTG!VERTICAL_SPEED_INDICATOR, 152,108,60,64
gauge05=DC6KM!RMI, 225,108,61,63
gauge06=DC6KM!TURN_INDICATOR, 298,108,61,63
gauge07=DC6KM!ADF, 152,183,45,46
gauge08=DC6KM!VOR1, 206,183,45,46
gauge09=DC6KM!DIR_GYRO, 262,182,45,46
gauge10=DC6KM!VOR2, 319,184,45,45
gauge11=DC6KM!FLAP, 156,252,36,38
gauge12=DC6KM!RPM_1, 393,32,60,63
gauge13=DC6KM!RPM_2, 531,31,59,63
gauge14=DC6KM!BMEP12, 463, 31 ,59,64
gauge15=DC6KM!BOOST_12, 394,99,58,63
gauge16=DC6KM!OIL_PRESS_12, 463,98,58,63
gauge17=DC6KM!MAN2_12, 531,98,59,63
gauge18=DC6KM!FUEL_QUANT_POUNDS_LEFT, 401,175,31,32
gauge19=DC6KM!FUEL_QUANT_POUNDS_RIGHT, 445,175,32,32
gauge20=DC6KM!FF_12, 492,176,44,45
gauge21=DC6KM!FUEL_PRESS_12, 553,182,33,33
gauge22=DC6KMTG!ALTIMETER, 621,31,66,71
gauge23=DC6KM!GYRO_HORIZON, 692,21,69,76
gauge24=DC6KMTG!AIRSPEED_7, 767,35,61,65
gauge25=DC6KMTG!VERTICAL_SPEED_INDICATOR, 620,107,61,63
gauge26=DC6KM!RMI, 694,107,59,64
gauge27=DC6KM!SO_TURN_INDICATOR, 767,107,60,64
gauge28=DC6KM!ADF, 619,182,40,44
gauge29=DC6KM!VOR1, 672,180,45,46
gauge30=DC6KM!DIR_GYRO, 729,181,44,46
gauge31=DC6KM!VOR2, 784,182,44,46
gauge32=DC6KM!FLAP, 733,253,36,39
gauge33=DC6KM!ELEV_TRIM2, 842,117,44,47
gauge34=DC6KM!GEAR_NOSE_DOWN, 218,254,17,17
gauge35=DC6KM!GEAR_LEFT_DOWN, 205,276,17,17
gauge36=DC6KM!GEAR_RIGHT_DOWN, 230,276,17,17
gauge37=DC6KM!GEAR_NOSE_DOWN, 791,255,18,17
gauge38=DC6KM!GEAR_LEFT_DOWN, 778,276,18,17
gauge39=DC6KM!GEAR_RIGHT_DOWN, 804,276,17,17
gauge40=Beech_Baron!OMI Lights, 610,50,9,27
gauge41=DC6KM!ELEV_TRIM2, 92,119,48,49
// gauge42=shockwave_lights!SW Lights, 1,1,1,1

//--------------------------------------------------------
[Vcockpit02]
Background_color=0,0,0
size_mm=55,56
visible=1
pixel_size=512,512s
texture=$G2_Mat

gauge00=Magnetic_Compass!Magnetic-Compass, 1,1,53,53

[Color]
Day=255,255,255
Night=255,255,255
Luminous=255,255,255

[Default View]
X=0
Y=0
SIZE_X=8191
SIZE_Y=3900

Backup your original panel.cfg in a safe place, then copy and paste this into your panel folders panel.cfg file, replacing the existing entries.

Also I have redone the VC cockpit interior to get rid of what I think is the cartoon effect of the near luminous green, but as the bitmap is 1MB even zipped I can’t post it as an attachment, but if anybody wants to try it if they send me an E-Mail (the address should be in my profile) I will send it back as an E-Mail attachment.

Jim Hodkinson

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Reply #30 - Jun 26^th, 2008 at 9:44am

Brett_Henderson Offline
Colonel
EVERY OUTER MARKER SHOULD
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Posts: 3593

Update:

Getting there, slow but sure.

Jim, I just tried that panel.cfg.. looks good, considering what we're working with. There are little things that I'll focus on later...

I've found while working on the 707, that old stuff (FS9 models and/or gauges) can sometimes bring mysterious effects. A problem I think we're gonna run into, is mixing float and scrape points with FS9 models and FSX effects.

Back to work.. lol

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Reply #31 - Jun 26^th, 2008 at 11:26am

Jim Hodkinson Offline
Colonel
Hello!
Manchester U.K

Gender:
Posts: 57

Hi Brett

Thanks for the road test, and I know what you mean about the mysterious effects, I’ve been down this road before but never with a seaplane, which I’m find out is a whole different beast than I’m used to.

I have finally managed to get the Marlin to take off from water by modifying the aircraft.cfg and SP-5B.air files

These files will allow the Marlin to take off from water only if the following conditions are met.

1. Aux tanks contain 25% or less.
2. The Main tanks contain 90% or less.
3. The aircraft MUST have at least an 8kt wind over the bow.
4. Full flaps when the airspeed creeps over 80 - 85kts
5. And a long run, and be ready to retract the flaps back a notch or two once airborne to allow the airspeed to increase.

In its present state the aircraft will NOT taxi downwind, apparently this is yet another FSX FEATURE / BUG when importing FS9 aircraft, I believe its called the FSX viscous water effect, apparently you can use a couple of thing to overcome it, the most popular method appears to be to overpower the engines, which is in a way what I have done on the modified files, in that I have not only slightly overpowered the engines but have also added the War Power option (you will probably have to assign a keystroke for this as its not enabled by default), and even with this I had to put the Marlin on a very strict diet, I’ve lowered the all up weight by approximately 12000 lbs.

I’ve also noted that the autopilot tends to get jittery when the preset altitude is captured (I’ve only tested up to 6000), but this is probably my flight dynamics.

Jim Hodkinson

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Reply #32 - Jun 26^th, 2008 at 11:37am

Brett_Henderson Offline
Colonel
EVERY OUTER MARKER SHOULD
BE AN NDB

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Posts: 3593

Uh oh.. are we both working on the aircraft.cfg ?

I've been building one from scratch (kinda)(I stole the engine/prop from the DC-3), then upped cylinder displacement, number of cylinders, max_mp / rpm etc..

Edit: Also, I just go with two fuel tanks.. It's neat to see 4 (or more) at the loading screen, but unless we're gonna add the complex plumbing and valves to the VC, there's really no point.

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Reply #33 - Jun 26^th, 2008 at 11:43am

Brett_Henderson Offline
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EVERY OUTER MARKER SHOULD
BE AN NDB

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Posts: 3593

I've gotten it to takeoff or taxi, regardless of wind direction... now I'm fine-tuning power/weight, flap affect, cruise/top speed, etc..

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Reply #34 - Jun 26^th, 2008 at 11:46am

Jim Hodkinson Offline
Colonel
Hello!
Manchester U.K

Gender:
Posts: 57

Hi Brett

Apologies for the confusion, I’m not working on the aircraft config or the air file, it’s just something to give me a break from the panel and VC, mine is just for the exercise.

Jim Hodkinson

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Reply #35 - Jun 26^th, 2008 at 9:39pm

NickN Offline
Colonel
FSX runs fine... the problem
is you or your system

Posts: 6317

Guys.. had a long day here... will check out that panel change you posted Jim

You guys are Smiley

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Reply #36 - Jun 27^th, 2008 at 4:29pm

Brett_Henderson Offline
Colonel
EVERY OUTER MARKER SHOULD
BE AN NDB

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Posts: 3593

OK... I've got it pretty close to what I think would be realistic, for a big, flying boat that's almost under-powered.

I can't fine tune the "beaching gear" contact points, as there's little (if any) suspension travel modeled in.

The float points aren't ideal, but with a deep hull like that, it's tough to get it 100% accurate.

Flight dynamics feel "right".. based mostly on realistic geometry (didn't even have to fudge the flight-tuning)..

Now I just gotta fine-tune the FSX camera definitions.

The existing VC is functional.. but I'm going to hunt down some gauges, switches, etc.. to make it more to my liking. I start every flight cold and dark, and don't like to have to use <ctrl+E>... gotta have all those piloted controlled things, controlled by the pilot..

Wink

Wink

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Reply #37 - Jun 27^th, 2008 at 10:00pm

Jim Hodkinson Offline
Colonel
Hello!
Manchester U.K

Gender:
Posts: 57

Hi Brett

For my own use I have already got a functional overhead panel that includes operational engine select switches, magneto switches, engine start switches, ac and ground power, fuel booster pumps, alternate fuel booster pumps, electrical disconnect switch, electrical power select switch, avionics switch, and even prop feather switches etc.

The gauges are from the gauge cab files that I included with my initial upload, but I have modified certain gauges, pumps, magneto, engine select switches and so on, to cater for only two engines and not the four engines that the gauge files had been intended for.

I have not yet fully tested them (in fact I’m just having a time out from modifying them) but they all seem to function, and are of the correct period, if you like I could bundle up another zip file of them and post it on Megaupload if you want to try them out, all together they way in at around 6MB, a little bit over the top for an E-Mail attachment.

Let me know if you want to give them a go.

Jim Hodkinson

By the way did anybody notice the oval ASI in the virtual cockpit, if so here is a little correction, just replace the Vcockpit01 section with the one below :-

[Vcockpit01]
Background_color=0,0,0
size_mm=972,329
visible=1
pixel_size=1280,1280s
texture=$G1_Mat

gauge00=Beech_Baron!OMI Lights, 362,51,9,27
gauge01=DC6KMTG!ALTIMETER, 150,34,65,69
gauge02=DC6KM!GYRO_HORIZON, 221,23,67,75
gauge03=DC6KMTG!AIRSPEED_7, 293,35,64,65
gauge04=DC6KMTG!VERTICAL_SPEED_INDICATOR, 152,108,60,64
gauge05=DC6KM!RMI, 225,108,61,63
gauge06=DC6KM!TURN_INDICATOR, 298,108,61,63
gauge07=DC6KM!ADF, 152,183,45,46
gauge08=DC6KM!VOR1, 206,183,45,46
gauge09=DC6KM!DIR_GYRO, 262,182,45,46
gauge10=DC6KM!VOR2, 319,184,45,45
gauge11=DC6KM!FLAP, 156,252,36,38
gauge12=DC6KM!RPM_1, 393,32,60,63
gauge13=DC6KM!RPM_2, 531,31,59,63
gauge14=DC6KM!BMEP12, 463, 31 ,59,64
gauge15=DC6KM!BOOST_12, 394,99,58,63
gauge16=DC6KM!OIL_PRESS_12, 463,98,58,63
gauge17=DC6KM!MAN2_12, 531,98,59,63
gauge18=DC6KM!FUEL_QUANT_POUNDS_LEFT, 401,175,31,32
gauge19=DC6KM!FUEL_QUANT_POUNDS_RIGHT, 445,175,32,32
gauge20=DC6KM!FF_12, 492,176,44,45
gauge21=DC6KM!FUEL_PRESS_12, 553,182,33,33
gauge22=DC6KMTG!ALTIMETER, 621,31,66,71
gauge23=DC6KM!GYRO_HORIZON, 692,21,69,76
gauge24=DC6KMTG!AIRSPEED_7, 767,35,61,65
gauge25=DC6KMTG!VERTICAL_SPEED_INDICATOR, 620,107,61,63
gauge26=DC6KM!RMI, 694,107,59,64
gauge27=DC6KM!SO_TURN_INDICATOR, 767,107,60,64
gauge28=DC6KM!ADF, 619,182,40,44
gauge29=DC6KM!VOR1, 672,180,45,46
gauge30=DC6KM!DIR_GYRO, 729,181,44,46
gauge31=DC6KM!VOR2, 784,182,44,46
gauge32=DC6KM!FLAP, 733,253,36,39
gauge33=DC6KM!ELEV_TRIM2, 842,117,44,47
gauge34=DC6KM!GEAR_NOSE_DOWN, 218,254,17,17
gauge35=DC6KM!GEAR_LEFT_DOWN, 205,276,17,17
gauge36=DC6KM!GEAR_RIGHT_DOWN, 230,276,17,17
gauge37=DC6KM!GEAR_NOSE_DOWN, 791,255,18,17
gauge38=DC6KM!GEAR_LEFT_DOWN, 778,276,18,17
gauge39=DC6KM!GEAR_RIGHT_DOWN, 804,276,17,17
gauge40=Beech_Baron!OMI Lights, 610,50,9,27
gauge41=DC6KM!ELEV_TRIM2, 92,119,48,49

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Reply #38 - Jun 27^th, 2008 at 11:18pm

Brett_Henderson Offline
Colonel
EVERY OUTER MARKER SHOULD
BE AN NDB

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Posts: 3593

Hey Jim..

Yes.. that would be grand

The email in my profile can handle 6mb no problem.. or a link will be fine.

I'm really starting to get attached to this beast.. Cheesy

Cheesy

Thanks,

Brett...

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Reply #39 - Jun 28^th, 2008 at 5:25am

Jim Hodkinson Offline
Colonel
Hello!
Manchester U.K

Gender:
Posts: 57

Hi Brett

E-Mail sent (zipped it came down to just over 1MB), the one thing I forgot to mention in the install instructions, is that although the panel close “cross” icon for overhead2 works absolutely perfectly, for some reason the same thing on the other overhead will close the main panel, I’m pretty sure is just a panel ident problem.

I was and am going to fix that, but I got a little sidetracked by sorting out a start up sequence, and my monitor had no room for yet another post-it note to remind me.

Jim Hodkinson

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Reply #40 - Jun 28^th, 2008 at 10:32am

Brett_Henderson Offline
Colonel
EVERY OUTER MARKER SHOULD
BE AN NDB

Gender:
Posts: 3593

Jim Hodkinson wrote on Jun 28^th, 2008 at 5:25am:

Hi Brett

E-Mail sent (zipped it came down to just over 1MB), the one thing I forgot to mention in the install instructions, is that although the panel close “cross” icon for overhead2 works absolutely perfectly, for some reason the same thing on the other overhead will close the main panel, I’m pretty sure is just a panel ident problem.

I was and am going to fix that, but I got a little sidetracked by sorting out a start up sequence, and my monitor had no room for yet another post-it note to remind me.

Jim Hodkinson

Got it

... and thanks again !

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Reply #41 - Jun 28^th, 2008 at 10:53am

NickN Offline
Colonel
FSX runs fine... the problem
is you or your system

Posts: 6317

Brett_Henderson wrote on Jun 27^th, 2008 at 4:29pm:

OK... I've got it pretty close to what I think would be realistic, for a big, flying boat that's almost under-powered.

I can't fine tune the "beaching gear" contact points, as there's little (if any) suspension travel modeled in.

The float points aren't ideal, but with a deep hull like that, it's tough to get it 100% accurate.

Flight dynamics feel "right".. based mostly on realistic geometry (didn't even have to fudge the flight-tuning)..

Now I just gotta fine-tune the FSX camera definitions.

The existing VC is functional.. but I'm going to hunt down some gauges, switches, etc.. to make it more to my liking. I start every flight cold and dark, and don't like to have to use <ctrl+E>... gotta have all those piloted controlled things, controlled by the pilot..

Wink

Wink

Once you and Jim get her to a certain point I will take a look at her and if there is anything I can add/tweak in the way of visuals, sounds, etc I will.

So far this is shaping up quite nicely in the cockpit.. looking forward to your additions Brett

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Reply #42 - Jun 28^th, 2008 at 6:39pm

NickN Offline
Colonel
FSX runs fine... the problem
is you or your system

Posts: 6317

Oppsss

I am a bit confused...

I have a popup panel named NO_PANEL is that the overhead you were speaking of Jim? The overhead in the VC is blurry because of the tiny map so I assume that pop-up panel is what you are referring too

I noticed the AP does not work with the mouse in the VC

I am going to look into a few custom FX and lighting for her exterior once you guys have everything located.

Strange because I enabled the ENGINE START effect and even though the engines appear to be located correctly the smoke puff start-up appears too far back, like 25ft too far here. Not sure what’s up with that.

I am still working with the old config and air file you provided Jim. As of yet I have not been able to start the plane even with CTRL-E when in the water so have just been using SLEW to check things out.

I will just wait for you guys to finish so I dont get all mixed up on what file is what... the sound set you provided is pretty cool Jim.. Nice deep pitch props with clanky/pop pistons noise!

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Reply #43 - Jun 28^th, 2008 at 7:37pm

Jim Hodkinson Offline
Colonel
Hello!
Manchester U.K

Gender:
Posts: 57

Hi Nick

The NO_Panel is the Navigators panel (I may change the ident to NAV_PANEL), but the panel identified as OVERHEAD is the one with the problem close icon, the OVERHEAD2 panel does not seem to suffer from this problem, but I’m looking into it, at present I’m doing some xml gauge modifying, as some of the original gauges do seem to have problems in FSX.

For the VC autopilot, you are correct it’s just a bitmap addition as the original author did not leave enough space above the flight instruments to add a working autopilot, the only other way to have a working autopilot in both the 2D and VC would be to reposition the gauge onto the main panel, possibly replacing the lighting switches as these are now located in the overhead, if you want me to try this its not really a problem but you would end up with a blank box on top of the VC panel as it’s part of the model, which without access to the original files can’t be removed.

The engine start procedure is still being worked on by myself hence the xml gauge work, and I believe Brett is also looking into this aspect, as like my self he is also not a fan of CTRL+E, but as for your particular problem of water starts I can’t say that this has ever been a problem at this end, but the aircraft is not very forgiving of prop settings so that may be an issue.

As for the sound set I have no idea where it came from as I have CD’s full of what I thought at the time interesting files, so I can’t even give the original author credit.

Hope it helps

Jim Hodkinson

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Reply #44 - Jun 28^th, 2008 at 9:36pm

NickN Offline
Colonel
FSX runs fine... the problem
is you or your system

Posts: 6317

I will just wait till you guys work all that out and look at it then.

I don’t understand why I can not CTRL-E start. As soon as the aircraft touches the water the engines conk out like they are not positioned high enough to be out of the water. I checked their positions and they appear correct but with the files I currently have the aircraft will not start or maintain engine 'on' in the water at all. And once they shut down the only way to get them started is to allow the aircraft to stop in the water and use slew to lift it out of the water.

I can not CTRL-E in the air either so it appears it has something to do with the startup cycle

Also, I noticed the VC light goes out when the landing lights are turned on.

understood about the AP. I guess if its not possible to put the AP in the VC we should just leave it be

Here is a refined set of LIGHT locations and types. Note that the locations are correct but the file names are the default light files which mine are modified and I will add an entire set of custom light FX and bmp's to this which means the file names will change from below but the type and locations are correct (at least on my monitor)

[LIGHTS]
//Types: 1=beacon, 2=strobe, 3=navigation, 4=cockpit, 5=landing
//6=taxi light, 7=recognition light, 8=wing light, 9=logo light
light.0=1, 4.00, 0.00, 2.82, fx_beaconb
light.1=2, -47.00, 0.00, 17.50, fx_strobe
light.2=2, -50.13, 0.00, 15.98, fx_beacon
light.3=3, 9.25, 57.84, 5.81, fx_navgrem
light.4=2, 9.10, 57.84, 5.81, fx_strobeh
light.5=3, 9.25, -57.90, 5.81, fx_navredm
light.6=2, 9.10, -57.84, 5.81, fx_strobeh
light.7=3, 36.32, 0.00, 6.27, fx_navwhi
light.8=3, 27.99, 0.00, 4.59, fx_navwhi
light.9=3, -39.30, 0.00, -7.84, fx_navwhi
light.10 = 4, 37.0, 0.0, 2.95, fx_vclight
light.11 = 5, 15.20, 17.60, 3.70, fx_landing
light.12 = 5, 15.15, 18.85, 3.70, fx_landing
light.13 = 5, 15.15, -18.95, 3.70, fx_landing
light.14 = 5, 15.20, -17.80, 3.70, fx_landing
light.15 = 5, 13.20, 55.8, 4.0, fx_landing
light.16 = 5, 13.20, 56.3, 4.0, fx_landing

Its probably best I wait for you guys to go through the rest and once we have a working system and I am sure I dont have a folder of mixed up files LOL then take it from there for testing.

In the mean time I will also work on some custom water FX too... a little water drop spray on the windshield when she pushes through the water will be nice..

« Last Edit: Jun 29^th, 2008 at 2:57am by NickN »

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Reply #45 - Jun 29^th, 2008 at 9:25am

Brett_Henderson Offline
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WOW

This aircraft is gonna be special... I just wish we had access to the source files to improve the VC. I'll be trying to contact the original designer soon.

Mean time.. I've been playing with the VC panel.. The DC-3 gauges look and work quite well. I'll have to modify some of the gauge bitmaps (for appropriate green-arcs and red-lines), and will make a new cab file, with just the used gauges.

The needed over-head panels pop up just fine from the VC (using <shift+'N'>. ... but icons would be nice. Between the VC and the pop-ups, I'll be able to make it all, pilot-controlled, from cold start, to shut-down. The 2D panel is an afterthought (I never use them), so updating its gauges will come last.. I might even just get rid of it all together, on "my" edition.

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Reply #46 - Jun 29^th, 2008 at 12:27pm

NickN Offline
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Brett_Henderson wrote on Jun 29^th, 2008 at 9:25am:

WOW

This aircraft is gonna be special... I just wish we had access to the source files to improve the VC. I'll be trying to contact the original designer soon.

Mean time.. I've been playing with the VC panel.. The DC-3 gauges look and work quite well. I'll have to modify some of the gauge bitmaps (for appropriate green-arcs and red-lines), and will make a new cab file, with just the used gauges.

The needed over-head panels pop up just fine from the VC (using <shift+'N'>. ... but icons would be nice. Between the VC and the pop-ups, I'll be able to make it all, pilot-controlled, from cold start, to shut-down. The 2D panel is an afterthought (I never use them), so updating its gauges will come last.. I might even just get rid of it all together, on "my" edition.

I am a bit ahead of you on the original owner contact part

He said we can do any upgrade we like however the original MDL file can not be included with the release.

He is in Fukuoka, Japan and I pointed him to this thread. I do not know if he read it or not.

So the deal is.. what ever is made must be made as a overwrite of his downloadable package so we must keep this in mind. The only stipulation he placed on this was that the model file itself could not be used in a package but a upgrade that overwrites everything else, is fine.

You may be able to talk with him being a model maker yourself Brett. I dont know that model builders 'lingo' and I dont speak his language.

I have come up with water droplets and sprinkles for the bow and spray.. and I have come up with prop wash and blowing mist for the engines and props with automatic control based on throttle and RADALT so water takeoffs and landings are going to be pretty special. Of course those FX come with a cost as any FX do but I will try to work them so they produce the least hit with the most visual impact as I go

Now if I can just figure out why I cant start or run these engines when the aircraft touches the water here I will be in business to finish those FX and trim them in for the final release.

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Reply #47 - Jun 29^th, 2008 at 12:45pm

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An "over-write" should be fine. (I wrote him too) (he's probably gonna get annoyed..lol).. It would be the whole aircraft, minus the model folder.

Wouldn't the old, "Copy and replace" work ? It's all really just cfg file work.. right ? Redundant or unused gauges and bitmaps would just sit there, harmlessly..

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Reply #48 - Jun 29^th, 2008 at 12:49pm

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Nick.. PM me an email, and I'll attach my cfg/air files... That will take care of your engine-on-the-water problems... and let you give me some feedback on flight dynamics and camera definitions..

Edit.. I'm sending them to you now, Jim..

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Reply #49 - Jun 29^th, 2008 at 12:54pm

NickN Offline
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Brett, are you modifying Jim's panel and improving on it or are you working from scratch?

Are we all using the same soundset?

The reason I ask is I know its possible to offer more than one panel/paint which may not be a bad but I was under the impression you and Jim were going back and forth with changes in that area.

So there is no confusion on my part.. are you working on one version of a panel and is Jim working on another?

Cant tell from the forum posts at this point..

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Reply #50 - Jun 29^th, 2008 at 12:55pm

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All I'm doing is playing with DC-3 gauges... the panel, as Jim has worked it, is intact..

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Reply #51 - Jun 29^th, 2008 at 12:57pm

NickN Offline
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Brett_Henderson wrote on Jun 29^th, 2008 at 12:55pm:

All I'm doing is playing with DC-3 gauges... the panel, as Jim has worked it, is intact..

Ahhhhh so you are just playing

OK

LOL

I could not tell what was going on.

Email sent!

Like I said.. it can be offered with 2 paints and 2 panels but I was not sure what you guys were doing..

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Reply #52 - Jun 29^th, 2008 at 1:07pm

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This would be a good time for us all to get on the same page... my reference point is probably offest from yours.. so the lights will have to be adjusted..

Edit: Moving the logitudinal numbers back by 3, does the trick..

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Reply #53 - Jun 29^th, 2008 at 1:56pm

NickN Offline
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Brett_Henderson wrote on Jun 29^th, 2008 at 1:07pm:

This would be a good time for us all to get on the same page... my reference point is probably offest from yours.. so the lights will have to be adjusted..

Edit: Moving the logitudinal numbers back by 3, does the trick..

Actually your right Brett

Jim, when you get everything locked down on the panels/gauges and sounds, I we will need a full package of that to make sure everything myself and Brett have are the same

Brett I can move the lights if that value is critical to anything you have done. I should not have jumped the gun on that since you were still working out the geometry. Let me know if that is a problem.

the items I am doing are all cosmetic so I can build and match what ever you guys come up with.

Since we are starting to come together on all elements it would be a good idea now we all try to stay on the same page

This is turning out to be a very cool aircraft.. I have not had a chance to fly her yet Brett... family over right now but will later.

I just got an overhead panel update with fixes from Jim too so I will look at that later as well

Its starting to shape up now!

I will post some images of the FX in action as soon as I can

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Reply #54 - Jun 29^th, 2008 at 2:19pm

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Quote:

Brett I can move the lights if that value is critical to anything you have done. I should not have jumped the gun on that since you were still working out the geometry. Let me know if that is a problem.

Just subract 3 from all the longitudinal (first) number in the light coordinates. You could change the reference point back to 0,0,0 but that would throw my CG and control surface geometry off by 3 feet. In an aircraft this large, that's minimal, but it does make a small difference.. especially in flap pitch.

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Reply #55 - Jun 29^th, 2008 at 4:02pm

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Hi

Before I get involved in a “little” addition to the panel, I would just like to sound everybody out on it, would anybody want the at the moment imitation throttle pedestal in the 2D cockpit converting into an actual usable pedestal as for as throttle, mixture, flaps and possibly prop pitch levers. or just a popup panel version of the same idea.

The reason for asking is that I think I could manage something as regards a functioning pedestal, but I’m not sure that the end result would perfectly match the VC pedestal as regards to the look of the various levers.

Jim Hodkinson

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Reply #56 - Jun 29^th, 2008 at 5:21pm

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Jim Hodkinson wrote on Jun 29^th, 2008 at 4:02pm:

Hi

Before I get involved in a “little” addition to the panel, I would just like to sound everybody out on it, would anybody want the at the moment imitation throttle pedestal in the 2D cockpit converting into an actual usable pedestal as for as throttle, mixture, flaps and possibly prop pitch levers. or just a popup panel version of the same idea.

The reason for asking is that I think I could manage something as regards a functioning pedestal, but I’m not sure that the end result would perfectly match the VC pedestal as regards to the look of the various levers.

Jim Hodkinson

Sorry I did not get back here earlier... Family day and all

Jim, I was going to ask if something like that was possible and if it would fit into the VC or not. If it will work and add user mouse control to the throttle, flaps, mixture, etc.. and look good in the VC, sure, why not!

Brett, I have not flown her yet but the files you sent did fix the water/engine on issue. I did taxi and wind her out in the water... what a job sir!! She handled like Bob's description. I cant wait to try her in the air.

I will fix my numbers so your geometry remains in order.. I should not have jumped the gun on that. She sits a bit higher in the water than the original too... I did not check the vintage images to see if the wing floats are equal in the water or if they sit a bit out of it. Probably depends on her load and weight.

Brett, perhaps you and Jim should discuss what ever you feel is either missing or not quite working from the panel and the preferences you may like to see. In the mean time I will get a flight out of her tonight and before I have to go back to GEX tomorrow, rework the lights and FX geometry to match the new design.

I did get to see the prop wash in action... LOL what a ride!

I will post back after I get the FX and everything else in order and have gotten a few flights in her.

At one point and when we get close on everything we should ship Bob70 a test package and see what he says too. If anyone will know her 'feel' he will but dang it Brett... from what I have see so far you darn well nailed it

Jim the panel and sounds are just outstanding thus far!

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Reply #57 - Jun 29^th, 2008 at 5:43pm

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It's funny... I've found that when you start with real-world geometry, and real world "power".. and real world weights.. you're only left with tweaking. I felt like it was dumb luck when I started testing... It takes every bit of that high MP throttle to get her moving.. and airspeed comes slowly. In fact, if you don't want to wait for the airspeed to get up around 100kias, you can actually "rock" her to break surface tension and launch her out of the water...... but don't get too greedy with altitude until the airspeed increases, or she'll fall right back down when you get the urge to retract the flaps..

By the time it's safe to climb, you've just about used the allowed time for maintaining max MP and a "top of thegreen arc" MP setting will yield a stable, albeit patience-testing climb. You can cheat, and keep full throttle indefinately, but what fun is that (not realistic either).

Trimmed and level she'll fly at published cruise speed with the engines MP, happily WELL within the green.

Landing takes the type of planning you'd imagine. Plan it WAY out and let her lose altitude with a relatively neutral pitch... bleed of the airspeed near 110kias or so, and ease the flaps out. Unless you're tryng to set her down quickly.. one (maybe two) notches are all you'll need. My next test session will be for trying to squeeze her in to tighter quarters.

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Reply #58 - Jun 29^th, 2008 at 6:21pm

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I may be rusty with my physics but

oswald_efficiency_factor= 0.65

yep! Thats what I thought

and you are NOT KIDDING... push the yoke forward and she starts up on trim with the bow, ... or rock her a bit.. but you must get her up on trim

DANG BRETT what a JOB

She is sitting a bit high in the water than she should though... just checked that.. no biggie, let me get that one because I have to fine tune the FX for spray/wake at the same time.. and optimize that so it does not kill a system LOL

With the panel and sound Jim has provided thus far and getting better by the day this is going to be ONE SWEET aircraft

If you guys can coordinate on the panel now that would be super.

Gebus! too bad we cant have access to the model to really do the VC right so a clean set of higher res VC graphics could be produced.

Jim I dont have any overhead here so something is amiss.. I am wondering if I have the right panel file going at this point. I added the section you sent but do not have any overhead. Please excuse my ignorance in that stuff because I am not a panel man and can miss things easy in those areas so its probably something simple I just dont see.

EDIT: I see now.. I dont have file_1024=Overhead.bmp here. I wonder if I have an old panel than is not what you see on your end.

Can you make a complete package and email it to me, just to be sure i am in sync with you... perhaps shoot the same to Brett so he has everything you see too.

I am going to focus on getting the lights, water position and FX using Bretts current air and A/C config. I will transfer the description and other needed items and get that started. Once I have a completed file we can coordinate again and you guys can tweak it further if need be for anything I may have missed.

Jim, Brett.. super work! Shocked

Shocked

Bob70 is going to love this and I think Phil will be very pleased too. Hes been looking for this plane for a long time and I love the boats myself.

Eventually and when I really get time I may even make a "island hopper" version which looks like an old navy surplus purchase that was repainted ... oil leaks, smoky exhaust.. the works

I simply can not thank you guys enough for all the help with this..

After this is finished, I feel I owe you both a drink of your favorite poison and a big favor!

Speaking of exhaust...

HEY BOB!!

Did she smoke? or was she pretty clean on the exhaust?

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Reply #59 - Jun 29^th, 2008 at 7:40pm

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Most of the photos showed the wing-floats well out of the water, .. that I had to make her sit a little high might be a modeling innacuracy. No biggie either way.. fine-tune the float points as you see fit.. just keep them relative to each other (same vertical difference between front/back). If you get too low in the water, the wing-floats might drag (their float-points ARE model dependent).

When you get them where they work with your effects, just let me know the numbers and I'll incorporate them into the final cfg file (still gotta do the aircraft data and performance specs, and fine-tune short landing performance)..

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Reply #60 - Jun 29^th, 2008 at 8:22pm

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Brett_Henderson wrote on Jun 29^th, 2008 at 7:40pm:

Most of the photos showed the wing-floats well out of the water, .. that I had to make her sit a little high might be a modeling innacuracy. No biggie either way.. fine-tune the float points as you see fit.. just keep them relative to each other (same vertical difference between front/back). If you get too low in the water, the wing-floats might drag (their float-points ARE model dependent).

When you get them where they work with your effects, just let me know the numbers and I'll incorporate them into the final cfg file (still gotta do the aircraft data and performance specs, and fine-tune short landing performance)..

I found action images (dang, cant find the link) that showed them in.. so its probably based on her load. If she has a full belly, they drag a bit

I will split the difference so we can get some action out of her in FX

Here is a sneak peek while I am building FX code.. not finshed yet by any means and you can not see the water spray (which is not white, its real drops of water...

If I do this just right the pilot will get some spray on the windshield.. real water droplets

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Reply #61 - Jun 29^th, 2008 at 8:52pm

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If you guys can work out the cold and dark cockpit and controls to make that work it would be great.. I know you like those Brett and I would like to see full function in that too, if its possible

Right now I cant shut the engines down or fire them up without keyboard so if we can get that all into the cockpit it would be grand

Thats probably on Jims panel but I dont have the overhead here yet

EDIT: Did she have reverse pitch and throttle? The original download did but I dont know if that is correct for this boat.

I cant see WHY

LOL

The problem is FORWARD

Also, I noticed there is no TAXI light tied to this model so we can dump that switch

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Reply #62 - Jun 29^th, 2008 at 9:33pm

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NickN wrote on Jun 29^th, 2008 at 6:21pm:

Speaking of exhaust...

HEY BOB!!

Did she smoke? or was she pretty clean on the exhaust?

Well Nick I had to think about that for awhile. As I remember she was pretty darn smoky on startup, but I don't remember her smoking that much when the engines were leaned out.

And boy are you guys doing a super job with with the old gal. Can't hardly wait to download her. I'm following the day to day progress.

Also happy to hear we will get a Navy Blue livery too.

Here is a pic that I copied out of my cruise book of a P5M up on the step taking off. Note wing floats out of water. Moving a lot of water and making a pretty big wake.

Here is a photo I found in the Navy Blue colors.

Hope they are of some help.

Bob

« Last Edit: Jun 29^th, 2008 at 10:37pm by Bob70 »

Camelback Mountain....Looking north from Sky Harbor Int. KPHX Phoenix, Arizona USA

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Reply #63 - Jun 29^th, 2008 at 9:47pm

NickN Offline
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Bob70 wrote on Jun 29^th, 2008 at 9:33pm:

NickN wrote on Jun 29^th, 2008 at 6:21pm:

Speaking of exhaust...

HEY BOB!!

Did she smoke? or was she pretty clean on the exhaust?

Well Nick I had to think about that for awhile. As I remember she was pretty darn smoky on startup, but I don't remember her smoking that much when the engines were leaned out.

And boy are you guys doing a super job with with the old gal. Can't hardly wait to download her. I'm following the day to day progress.

Also happy to hear we will get a Navy Blue livery too.

Bob

Done

Smoky startup it is

If these guys provide rich/lean I can tie into that and smoke her up when she is rich

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Reply #64 - Jun 29^th, 2008 at 10:22pm

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Hi Nick

I added a couple of pics to my post above. Might help on repaints.

Bob

Camelback Mountain....Looking north from Sky Harbor Int. KPHX Phoenix, Arizona USA

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Reply #65 - Jun 29^th, 2008 at 10:51pm

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I threw the two KingAir start toggles onto the overhead panel.. complete cold start is now possible (without having to add another gauge file or cab)..

Now there's a glitch. I'm starting "real" flying, and the nav/comms won't tune. The ADFs work fine, so does the transponder.

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Reply #66 - Jun 30^th, 2008 at 3:04am

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I'm going to have to can the real water spray and dropplets..

I calc'd out the CPU on the sprites and unless your running a very fast CPU, rendering thousands of real water drops (although LOOKS AWESOME) will crush the frames on the takeoffs and landings

i can do it but i am afraid of what it will do to most others so I made some compromises and came up with a really nice action set.

I may be able to put a bit more white wash bow spray on her too

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Reply #67 - Jun 30^th, 2008 at 5:42am

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Hi all

To help with getting us all on the same page I’m presently getting together a complete (to date) panel package, including the gauges the have been modified to date, and all the panel bitmaps, as to be quite honest I’m not really sure who has got what gauges and panel.cfg files, I should have that by the end of the day.

Brett for the radios to function the radio section entry has to be as below (I could have sworn I had put that in the original Aircraft.cfg), which probably highlights getting us all on a level playing field.

I have to admit that when I heard that the radios would not function it threw me a little, as I had a quick look around my gauges, and could not find any that really fit in with the exisiting Navigators Panel (which I would like to keep if possible).

[Radios]
Audio.1=1
Com.1=1, 0
Com.2=1, 0
Nav.1=1, 0, 1
Nav.2=1, 0, 0
Adf.1=1
Adf.2=1
Transponder.1=1
Marker.1=1

While I’m here would it be possible to up the fuel pressure to 15lbs from the present 3lbs, it would be one less gauge to mod, no real biggie if not.

The pedestal may take a LITTLE longer, as that really is an after thought, so very little has been done yet as I’m try to get the bitmaps sorted out.

Jim Hodkinson

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Reply #68 - Jun 30^th, 2008 at 7:17am

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Wow, Nick.. looks good (I keep thinking about the physics modeling involved for droplets Shocked

Shocked

)

Jim,, my bad.. it just goes to show you how lost you can get in a project.. can't see the forest for the trees Roll Eyes

Roll Eyes

I've spent more time in cfg files than probably anybody on this planet.. The radios paragraph is the FIRST thing you learn about Embarrassed

Embarrassed

how radios with or without stand-by freqs need or don't need those "1"s... Thanks for reminding me.. cause yes.. those are gorgeous radios and that navigator's panel helps add to effect of how big a plane you're flying... It's a must-have for online, shared cockpit, multi-player flying. (can't wait to try a long, bad weather flight with a genuine navigator on board)

The panels you come up with are THE panels.. Any DC-3 mods I add will be for me, only.

As for the cold start-up.. I did this (de-activated the existing starter, and added KingAir toggles.. one-click start for each engine) .. It's a quick fix.. if you have better starters, please replace the KingAir toggles.

[Window05]
file=Overhead2.bmp
file_1024=Overhead2.bmp
size_mm=960,324
window_size_ratio=1.000
position=0
visible=0
ident=10004
window_size= 0.620, 0.320
window_pos= 0.220, 0.000

gauge00=DC6KM!OVERHEAD2_PANEL_X, 810,283,19,19
gauge01=DC6KMTG!ENGINE_SELECT, 554,151,53,49
gauge02=DC6KM!FEATHER_PROP1, 141,231,62,81
gauge03=DC6KM!FEATHER_PROP2, 207,232,62,81
gauge04=DC6KM!NAV_LIGHTS, 93,153,20,33
gauge05=DC6KM!BEACON_LIGHTS, 133,153,20,33
gauge06=DC6KM!Smoking, 81,94,20,33
gauge07=DC6KMTG!SeatBelts, 121,94,20,33
gauge08=DC6KM!LITE_OH_SWITCH, 167,110,59,47
gauge09=DC6KM!LITE_WW, 221,186,23,16
gauge10=DC6KM!LITE_WW_SWITCH, 253,177,20,33
gauge11=DC6KM!LITE_BC, 292,187,23,16
gauge12=DC6KM!LITE_BC_SWITCH, 323,175,20,33
gauge13=DC6KM!STROBES, 115,35,20,33
gauge14=DC6KM!LITE_CENT_SWITCH, 364, 148 ,59,48
gauge15=DC6KM!LITE_FO_SWITCH, 272,27,59,53
gauge16=DC6KM!LITE_SO_SWITCH, 277,108,59,55

//gauge17=DC6KMTG!ENGINE_STARTER, 438,149,91,37

gauge18=DC6KMTG!MAGNETOES, 336,236,300,76
gauge19=DC6KMTG!START_SAFETY, 470,196,29,39
gauge20=DC6KMTG!BATTERY_SWITCH, 647,180,24,37
gauge21=DC6KM!GEN 1 SWITCH, 743,178,24,37
gauge22=DC6KM!GEN 2 SWITCH, 783,178,24,37
gauge23=DC6KMTG!EMERG_ELECT_SWITCH, 620,139,260,68
gauge24=DC6KM!CABIN_LIGHTS, 162,35,20,33
gauge25=DC6KM!FUEL_PUMP_SWITCHS, 398,9,184,58
gauge26=DC6KMTG!FUEL_PUMP_SWITCHS2, 623,10,184,58
gauge27=DC6KMTG!AC_UPPER_SWITCH, 365,90,26,37
gauge28=DC6KMTG!AC_LOWER_SWITCH, 424,90,26,37
gauge29=DC6KM!ELECT_RESET, 489,98,15,23
gauge30=DC6KM!ELECT BREAK LITE, 521,96,20,15
gauge31=DC6KM!Avionics, 875,27,24,39
gauge32=DC6KM!INTERPHONE, 66,35,20,33
gauge33=DC6KM!EXIT, 107,206,20,33
gauge34=DC6KM!AVIONICS LITE, 850,21,20,11
gauge35=DC6KMTG!GPU_VOLTS, 584,86,104,25
gauge36=DC6KMTG!GPU_MASTER_SWITCH, 716,93,34,48
gauge37=DC6KMTG!GPU_LITE, 730,88,12,7

gauge38=KingAir!left ignition, 432, 149, 46, 63
gauge39=KingAir!right ignition, 480, 149, 46, 63

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Reply #69 - Jun 30^th, 2008 at 12:06pm

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Maybe I'm overlooking something (hopefully), but I'm still no joy on tuning the Nav/Coms..

Huh

Huh

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Reply #70 - Jun 30^th, 2008 at 12:27pm

NickN Offline
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Great to see we are sync'ing up so we all have the same panels and supporting files on it..

I added the radio entry to this aircraft.cfg but have not tested it. I will let you guys figure that out.

I have run into another problem I am trying to figure out.. 2 of the wheel gears have decided to stay engaged and will not disappear with "gear up" on the keyboard. Not sure how that happened.

I have not been able to figure out why the VC light shuts off when the landing lights come on either.

Still working on tweaking FX. As soon as I get them finished I will package them and the aircraft.cfg up and send it to both of you. It may take me another day to fine tune that.

As for the water droplets.. they were as close to looking Phy's controlled as I could make them and they did zip past the windshield too. I am afraid that most people would find the frame loss not worth the FX. I only lose about 5 here to it but I also run close to 30 near Seattle with this so its not a detrimental lose to me. Others would probably drop to the teens or possibly single digit.

Dont know about the fuel pressure.. Brett would be better qualfied to answer that one

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Reply #71 - Jun 30^th, 2008 at 12:53pm

NickN Offline
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Found the gear problem.. pesky typo's LOL

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Reply #72 - Jun 30^th, 2008 at 2:06pm

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Hi Brett

I must admit that during my panel testing I’ve more or less been concentrating on the engine and flight instruments as I previously had a quick look at the nav instrumentation and everything seemed to be OK, but I have just had a quick test and although they do power up and allow frequency changes with the radio entry in the post above, you are correct they do absolutely nothing after that.

That’s the bad news, now for the good news, I think I’ve found the glitch.

I had changed over to an aircraft.cfg file sent to me by Nick (sorry Nick) and it contains slightly different entries for the Radio, Electrical and Autopilot sections, so after dropping in the entries from my original config, everything is now functional (as far as I can tell), as I was able to tune the VOR, contact the tower, ground and weather.

These are the entries from my original config that as far as I can see differ from the one I had been using, they should not cause any problems with anything else, but I’ll leave the mysteries of the config files to your capable hands.

[electrical]
max_battery_voltage = 24
generator_alternator_voltage = 28
max_generator_alternator_amps = 160
engine_generator_map = 1,1,0,0
electric_always_available = 0
flap_motor = 0, 5, 0
gear_motor = 0, 5, 0
autopilot = 0, 5, 0
avionics_bus = 0, 10, 0
avionics = 1, 5, 0
pitot_heat = 0, 2, 0
additional_system = 0, 20, 0
marker_beacon = 1, 2, 0
gear_warning = 0, 2, 0
fuel_pump = 0, 5, 0
starter1 = 0, 20, 0
light_nav = 0, 5, 0
light_beacon = 0, 5, 0
light_landing = 0, 5, 0
light_taxi = 0, 5, 0
light_strobe = 0, 5, 0
light_panel = 0, 5, 0

[Radios]
Audio.1=1
Com.1=1, 0
Com.2=1, 0
Nav.1=1, 0, 1
Nav.2=1, 0, 0
Adf.1=1
Adf.2=1
Transponder.1=1
Marker.1=1

[autopilot]
autopilot_available=1
flight_director_available=0
default_vertical_speed=1200.00000
autothrottle_available=0
pitch_takeoff_ga=0.00000
max_pitch=10.00000
max_pitch_acceleration=1.00000
max_pitch_velocity_lo_alt=2.00000
max_pitch_velocity_hi_alt=1.50000
max_pitch_velocity_lo_alt_breakpoint=20000.00000
max_pitch_velocity_hi_alt_breakpoint=28000.00000
max_bank=25.00000
max_bank_acceleration=1.80000
max_bank_velocity=3.00000
max_throttle_rate=0.10000
nav_proportional_control=9.00000
nav_integrator_control=0.25000
nav_derivative_control=0.00000
nav_integrator_boundary=2.50000
nav_derivative_boundary=0.00000
gs_proportional_control=9.52000
gs_integrator_control=0.26000
gs_derivative_control=0.00000
gs_integrator_boundary=0.70000
gs_derivative_boundary=0.00000
yaw_damper_gain=0.00000
default_pitch_mode=0
default_bank_mode=0
use_no_default_bank=1
use_no_default_pitch=1
autothrottle_arming_required=0
autothrottle_takeoff_ga=1.00000
autothrottle_max_rpm=90.00000

[direction_indicators]
direction_indicator.0=2,0

Hope it helps.

Jim Hodkinson

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Reply #73 - Jun 30^th, 2008 at 2:07pm

NickN Offline
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OK, I have the panel now.. very cool overhead shape

Too bad we can not import that into the VC too

I think I have the FX/lights locked down now. I will package them up and email them to you guys with the config

Also, Brett, I noticed the props act funny with transparency.. they do not seem to allow autogen to show but the terrain shows through them... and the landing lights behind them are affected by that.. any chance of getting a look at that?

Will send the FX, supporting bmp's and the config shortly

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Reply #74 - Jun 30^th, 2008 at 2:09pm

NickN Offline
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Jim Hodkinson wrote on Jun 30^th, 2008 at 2:06pm:

Hi Brett

I must admit that during my panel testing I’ve more or less been concentrating on the engine and flight instruments as I previously had a quick look at the nav instrumentation and everything seemed to be OK, but I have just had a quick test and although they do power up and allow frequency changes with the radio entry in the post above, you are correct they do absolutely nothing after that.

That’s the bad news, now for the good news, I think I’ve found the glitch.

I had changed over to an aircraft.cfg file sent to me by Nick (sorry Nick) and it contains slightly different entries for the Radio, Electrical and Autopilot sections, so after dropping in the entries from my original config, everything is now functional (as far as I can tell), as I was able to tune the VOR, contact the tower, ground and weather.

These are the entries from my original config that as far as I can see differ from the one I had been using, they should not cause any problems with anything else, but I’ll leave the mysteries of the config files to your capable hands.

[electrical]
max_battery_voltage = 24
generator_alternator_voltage = 28
max_generator_alternator_amps = 160
engine_generator_map = 1,1,0,0
electric_always_available = 0
flap_motor = 0, 5, 0
gear_motor = 0, 5, 0
autopilot = 0, 5, 0
avionics_bus = 0, 10, 0
avionics = 1, 5, 0
pitot_heat = 0, 2, 0
additional_system = 0, 20, 0
marker_beacon = 1, 2, 0
gear_warning = 0, 2, 0
fuel_pump = 0, 5, 0
starter1 = 0, 20, 0
light_nav = 0, 5, 0
light_beacon = 0, 5, 0
light_landing = 0, 5, 0
light_taxi = 0, 5, 0
light_strobe = 0, 5, 0
light_panel = 0, 5, 0

[Radios]
Audio.1=1
Com.1=1, 0
Com.2=1, 0
Nav.1=1, 0, 1
Nav.2=1, 0, 0
Adf.1=1
Adf.2=1
Transponder.1=1
Marker.1=1

[autopilot]
autopilot_available=1
flight_director_available=0
default_vertical_speed=1200.00000
autothrottle_available=0
pitch_takeoff_ga=0.00000
max_pitch=10.00000
max_pitch_acceleration=1.00000
max_pitch_velocity_lo_alt=2.00000
max_pitch_velocity_hi_alt=1.50000
max_pitch_velocity_lo_alt_breakpoint=20000.00000
max_pitch_velocity_hi_alt_breakpoint=28000.00000
max_bank=25.00000
max_bank_acceleration=1.80000
max_bank_velocity=3.00000
max_throttle_rate=0.10000
nav_proportional_control=9.00000
nav_integrator_control=0.25000
nav_derivative_control=0.00000
nav_integrator_boundary=2.50000
nav_derivative_boundary=0.00000
gs_proportional_control=9.52000
gs_integrator_control=0.26000
gs_derivative_control=0.00000
gs_integrator_boundary=0.70000
gs_derivative_boundary=0.00000
yaw_damper_gain=0.00000
default_pitch_mode=0
default_bank_mode=0
use_no_default_bank=1
use_no_default_pitch=1
autothrottle_arming_required=0
autothrottle_takeoff_ga=1.00000
autothrottle_max_rpm=90.00000

[direction_indicators]
direction_indicator.0=2,0

Hope it helps.

Jim Hodkinson

I will add this to the config I have here

EDIT:
Except AP VS appears to be a bit off... will set default to 700

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Reply #75 - Jun 30^th, 2008 at 2:13pm

Jim Hodkinson Offline
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Hi Nick

I’m pretty sure that the prop issue is a sad by product of porting FS9 aircraft, some people have had varying success with changing the texture files for the props, but if memory serves me correctly on a few aircraft you will have to go back to the original model file to rectify it.

I’ll have a quick look to see if the texture change from another aircrafts propeller will alter it and get back.

I know it’s no help but I have seen a LOT worse.

Jim Hodkinson

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Reply #76 - Jun 30^th, 2008 at 2:16pm

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I think were stuck, on the radio problem. Unless one of knows how to edit the old XML code to work in FSX. They just won't manually tune, regardless of the radio paragraph cfg entries.

As for the prop disk hiding autogen.. that's an FS9 model/animation problem. There might be a fix re: the prop-disk texture format, but I doubt it. I'll look into it.

Edit.. LOL.. I dove-tailed your post, Jim

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Reply #77 - Jun 30^th, 2008 at 2:24pm

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From Phil's blog re: FS9 props in FSX.. it's a fix for opaque disks..

Quote:

One thing that this cannot fix, or even make worse, is how clouds and/or autogen display behind or though the prop disc(s). Short story is, that's an artifact of FS9 vs FSX modeling and texture assignments, and display techniques, and it simply will be what it will be until an FSX-specific version of that aircraft is created.

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Reply #78 - Jun 30^th, 2008 at 2:55pm

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Hi Brett

I think I may have a possible avenue to explore, when I retried the aircraft with the aircraft.cfg entries in the post I used and the original SP-5B Marlin air file and had no problems the radios tuned both manually and auto tuned with the standard FSX keyboard shortcuts, I then tried my own armature modified SP-5B Marlin air file again with the aircraft.cfg entries and got the same result, all OK, but you are correct using the modified SP-5B air file although I found that the radios would manually tune nobody was listening.

So the only thing I can think of is that something minor has changed in the modified SP-5B air file, could you try the original air file with the aircraft.cfg additions just to see if my suspicions are correct.

Jim Hodkinson

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Reply #79 - Jun 30^th, 2008 at 3:09pm

NickN Offline
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OK guys.. you should have the FX package

it covers startup, lights, prop wash, bow spray, wake and splashes

Let me know if it cripples your frames

LOL

It tested good here... without the real water drops that call alpha's and thousands of flying water dropplets the frame drop was not that bad for the amount of visual FX's it throws

The view will also make a difference.. if you shove your face in the water mist.. frames will drop although mine stay above 24 here all the time

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Reply #80 - Jun 30^th, 2008 at 3:12pm

NickN Offline
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FORGOT THE PROP WASH GAUGE...!!!

Sending another email!

PLEASE POST THIS IN THE PANEL.CFG YOU ARE USING:

//----------------------------------------------------

[Vcockpit03]
size_mm=512, 512
pixel_size=512,512
texture=$h_cluster
background_color=0,0,0
visible=0
gauge00=nn-gauges!SP5BFXcontrol.xml, 0,0

sending now

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Reply #81 - Jun 30^th, 2008 at 3:20pm

NickN Offline
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Oh well... too bad about the props

Any chance we can get the VC light to work with the landing lights on?

I sent out the FX package which has the aircraft.cfg I am using and I sent a copy of the air file I am using to Jim, which is the same air file you sent me Brett .. and I have the panel Jm sent earlier

so we should all be on the same page now as long as things dont get mixed up

LOL

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Reply #82 - Jun 30^th, 2008 at 3:50pm

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OK.. the plot thickens...

With the original air file, the radios tune fine, but the engines die in the water...

I switched back to my FSX air file and found MY problem ..

I changed the key assignment for master avionics, a long time ago.. there are TWO master avionics switches in this plane (one on the O/H panel.. one on the Navigators panel). My key assignment turns one off, and the other on (never does them both on, or off). I went to default key assignments and all is well with the FSX air file. We can't use the FS9 air file, because it won't let the engines run on water.

*radio problem solved*

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Reply #83 - Jun 30^th, 2008 at 4:02pm

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I saw the double master swich.. perhaps one needs to be eliminated to get rid of the problem..

let me know how the FX work for you.

I can add wing vortice to it but I did not think it was right for this slow of a plane... and I know that can be controlled by temps so it can be enabled and set to work if environnment condition is right

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Reply #84 - Jun 30^th, 2008 at 4:15pm

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The FX are GREAT ! .. they only hit me for a few FPS.. and obviously only from an exterior view, so it's no big deal as far as flying goes..

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Reply #85 - Jun 30^th, 2008 at 4:19pm

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Hi Brett

Glad to hear that the radios are now online, as for the master avionics switches my preference would be to do away with the Navigators switch, I can see some reasoning behind having the Nav Officer having such a switch, but I’m not sure as a pilot that I would care for all my navigation instrument suddenly dying on me, due to the Nav Officer nudging a switch by accident when reaching for his coffee.

Anyway preferences, keep the overhead switch or Nav station switch.

As for the FX, well what can I say except brilliant, and as Brett says very little frame rate hit even on my less than top of the range machine.

Jim Hodkinson

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Reply #86 - Jun 30^th, 2008 at 4:25pm

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I had to go try it again..lol LOVE the engine smoke.. and I was taking off with a slight x-wind.. so I got to see the wind affect the spray... COOOOL...

Jim.. either one is fine, but I agree,, the pilot should have the master switch..

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Reply #87 - Jun 30^th, 2008 at 4:33pm

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Hi Brett

That’s two for the Nav Officer not being trusted.

I have to agree with your opinion of the effects, outstanding.

While I’m here, with the config and air file master, I think we really need to look into the prop reverse, as doing a jetty dock without them could be more hit than miss, any thoughts or suggestions.

Jim Hodkinson

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Reply #88 - Jun 30^th, 2008 at 4:39pm

NickN Offline
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Quote:

Brett.. I did notice she would be hard pressed to overspeed. I know Bob said if you lose one engine it could be bad.. have not tested that here yet cause I have not figured out the panels quite yet to shut just one engine down.. but perhaps we should up the engine power and reduce the oswald a tad so she can get speed and even overspeed at 100% throttle and level flight, but the eff on the wing being lowered a bit would allow for the same drag effect you created with T/O/LND

I did notice she would lift out of the water much easier with 100% flap and 100% throttle than flaps 1 but she was hard pressed to get above GREEN on the gauge for airspeed until those flaps came up. If they come up too soon she drops, fast

Nevermind Brett.. I just did the single engine hussle

I think you got dang close

Panels are not my specialty Jim. I will see if I can locate some Marlin images

I know there is a Martin Marlin 130 out there by Jens B. Kristensen.. much larger plane and I do not know what the cockpit looks like. I know that one is posted at AVs.. I dont know if its posted here

I will see what I can come up with. Bob may have source material too

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Reply #89 - Jun 30^th, 2008 at 4:40pm

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Quote:

While I’m here, with the config and air file master, I think we really need to look into the prop reverse, as doing a jetty dock without them could be more hit than miss, any thoughts or suggestions.

Agreed.. I'll finish that up and test it by this time tomorrow. Nick already "pasted" in the description and performance specs to the cfg file.. so this will be it for my work.

I'll volunteer to Nick to be the focal point.. I'll send the FINAL cfg/air files to him (with tested reversers).. You send him the FINAL panel.. Then when all three of us are certain we're flyingh the exact same aircraft, we'll decide how to package and upload it..

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Reply #90 - Jun 30^th, 2008 at 4:55pm

NickN Offline
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Thats right

Put it all on me

LOL

That works!

And probably best so we all end up with the same changes

Guys... I cant thank you enough for what you have done.. so far we have accomplished a lot with this bird

Bob:
As for a repaint.. Bob, I don't know if that will make it into the update or not at this point. Its a job to do that right and get all the markings clean. I will see if I can squeeze it in. If not I will upload a repaint for her ASAP after the initial release.

What I think I may do is get the file to Bob once we have finished all the tech and let him try her out. From there get feedback he may know from experience we don't about her handling. even riding with the crew below he should be able to tell if things feel right.

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Reply #91 - Jun 30^th, 2008 at 5:10pm

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Hi Brett

I totally agree that we need for the want of a better word a team leader to coordinate things, I’ve not yet had any real time to start on the pedestal pop up work, and I was just about to have a go with your engine switch additions to try a figure out a start up sequence based on the California Classics start up procedure modified if need be for the Marlin.

As for the panel, once the Nav Officers avionics master switch is removed, has anyone got any suggestions on any additions, subtractions or modifications to the panel as it now stands, as I will admit that as I’m rubbish at landing flying boats I was going to add a radar alt gauge just to the left of the main flight instruments (if possible one with an audible tone) if I can locate a freeware gauge that looks right in my collection, although while typing this I’ve just remembered that I have an altitude call-out gauge that works well in FSX, with call-outs from 2,500 feet down to I think 10 feet it could be 5.

Any and all feedback welcome, I must admit that it would have been helpful if I could have got hold of some cockpit shots of the Marlin, but so far I’ve been unable to locate any, I just hope that anybody who has been in the Office of the Marlin will not be to upset by the present rendition.

I’ve never done so much typing; need coffee, a smoke (disgusting habit I know) and some Hendrix for a while.

Back soon.

Jim Hodkinson

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Reply #92 - Jun 30^th, 2008 at 5:21pm

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Brett.. Forget the engine/eff changes. I just did the single engine hussle... I dont think thats going to get any better. Nice job on nailing that

Jim, I am not a panel expert and that is one area I am probably can not be much help however I will see if I can find anything on the Marlin. Bob70 may have some source data. As for matching, at this point I would not be too concerned given the original model but I would like to try and get everything calibrated and working that we do have, if possible.

I know there is a Martin marlin 130 out there made by Jens B. Kristensen but I do not know what the VC or gages look like.. I will see if I can dig that one up. I think its a AVS.... but I do not know if its posted here.

The FX are fun... Bob said they would churn up the water if it was too calm and thats exactly what those FX do.. and she will definitely churn things up with the flight dynamics as they are right now going around in circles

LOL!

I will see if I can come up with some source materials for the SP5B. Please dont knock yourself out rushing as there is no time constraint on this.

The sound and panel so far are shaping up great.

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Reply #93 - Jun 30^th, 2008 at 5:36pm

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Hi Nick

Ok I’ll get to work on the start up procedure, I must admit that I’m more than a little anxious / curious as to how a former Naval Aviator that was part of the aircrew thinks she measures up.

Jim Hodkinson

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Reply #94 - Jun 30^th, 2008 at 5:57pm

NickN Offline
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Jim Hodkinson wrote on Jun 30^th, 2008 at 5:36pm:

Hi Nick

Ok I’ll get to work on the start up procedure, I must admit that I’m more than a little anxious / curious as to how a former Naval Aviator that was part of the aircrew thinks she measures up.

Jim Hodkinson

Once we get things to a certain point I will see about getting it to Bob in one (or 2) email send(s)..

I would like to try and finish what we have and wish to try and then go from there. If Brett does reverse pitch I need to write the gauge edit and create the FX so thats on my list and I am looking at the paint part too.

I wonder if we can fudge the landing gear edits to allow it to at least sit on the ground outside the water and roll a tad.. hmmmmmm

Would be kind of neat to be able to power her out of the water onto a ramp or beach

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Reply #95 - Jun 30^th, 2008 at 6:21pm

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Hi Everyone

Well here are a couple of photos I found in my cruise book I copied. Don't know if they will be of any help to you. That's about all I could find.

Bob

Camelback Mountain....Looking north from Sky Harbor Int. KPHX Phoenix, Arizona USA

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Reply #96 - Jun 30^th, 2008 at 6:40pm

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NickN wrote on Jun 30^th, 2008 at 5:57pm:

Jim Hodkinson wrote on Jun 30^th, 2008 at 5:36pm:

Hi Nick

Ok I’ll get to work on the start up procedure, I must admit that I’m more than a little anxious / curious as to how a former Naval Aviator that was part of the aircrew thinks she measures up.

Jim Hodkinson

Once we get things to a certain point I will see about getting it to Bob in one (or 2) email send(s)..

I would like to try and finish what we have and wish to try and then go from there. If Brett does reverse pitch I need to write the gauge edit and create the FX so thats on my list and I am looking at the paint part too.

I wonder if we can fudge the landing gear edits to allow it to at least sit on the ground outside the water and roll a tad.. hmmmmmm

Would be kind of neat to be able to power her out of the water onto a ramp or beach

Hi Nick

I can receive up to 20MB per email. I also have a Pando account for really big files. If you do send me the files, please include any special installation instructions. Thanks

Bob

"I wonder if we can fudge the landing gear edits to allow it to at least sit on the ground outside the water and roll a tad.. hmmmmmm

Would be kind of neat to be able to power her out of the water onto a ramp or beach" Cool

Cool

Big YES I hope we can.

Camelback Mountain....Looking north from Sky Harbor Int. KPHX Phoenix, Arizona USA

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Reply #97 - Jun 30^th, 2008 at 6:50pm

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Blown Piston FX, oil spray FX and Engine fires all working... just need fire ALARM/ control to put it out..

LOL

Great stuff with those pics Bob!

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Reply #98 - Jun 30^th, 2008 at 7:08pm

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Hi Bob

Thank you for the photographs, apart from the centre section of the main panel I think we are close, I’m assuming that the control panel in the centre section is the autopilot, which unfortunately is modelled as being above the flight panel an the aircraft we have to work with.

Those photographs are from what I’ve been able to find out extremely rare shots of the Marlins Office, it’s shame that the pedestal in the models VC is not of the actual type as that would have been a lot easier to reproduce as either a pop up window for the 2D cockpit or as an actual addition to the 2d panel itself.

I must admit that the thought of recreating what I presume is the flight engineers panel in the second photograph is one that fills me with dread, just in case your listening Nick.

I really hope that in your eyes the end result will do her justice.

Jim Hodkinson

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Reply #99 - Jun 30^th, 2008 at 7:16pm

NickN Offline
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No no no no Jim If we had access to the VC I would say lets go for it and make it all as correct as possible

LOL

The direction we are going is fine.. I was just having fun with FX and failures.. they all work great now. If someonw wants to have the sim throw them random engine failures or even set them up they will get a heck of a show!

Blown pistons.. oil spray.. smoke, fire and flames, the works

It would be nice if we had fire/alarm control on the engines but I have never researched that to see how to set it up or if one of the default aircraft has it and can be transferred to this panel.

I was also looking for a stall warning or buzzer perhaps.. the panels are new to me so its fun poking around

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Reply #100 - Jun 30^th, 2008 at 7:18pm

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Hi Nick

I’ll see what I can come up with regarding fire alarms and extinguishers,

By the way I added the altitude call-outs, at the moment they call out at 1000, 500, 400, 300, 200, 100, 50, 40, 30, 20 and 10 feet, which I realise is a cheat but as I’m REALLY a novice at seaplane work it does help, as I was previously using the spot view for gauging the landings,

The gauge itself is the freeware MeatWater Altitude Callouts Version 2, which I think I downloaded from AVS, although I have replaced the callout wave files as the originals are for me a little to mechanical.

Jim Hodkinson

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Reply #101 - Jun 30^th, 2008 at 7:20pm

NickN Offline
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Jim Hodkinson wrote on Jun 30^th, 2008 at 7:18pm:

Hi Nick

I’ll see what I can come up with regarding fire alarms and extinguishers,

By the way I added the altitude call-outs, at the moment they call out at 1000, 500, 400, 300, 200, 100, 50, 40, 30, 20 and 10 feet, which I realise is a cheat but as I’m REALLY a novice at seaplane work it does help, as I was previously using the spot view for gauging the landings,

The gauge itself is the freeware MeatWater Altitude Callouts Version 2, which I think I downloaded from AVS, although I have replaced the callout wave files as the originals are for me a little to mechanical.

Jim Hodkinson

Very cool Jim!

more toys, the more fun ''LOL!

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Reply #102 - Jun 30^th, 2008 at 7:27pm

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I can't work on this until the AM.. but it shouldn't take long to test reversers.

As for ground-ops.. I can not only taxi (very carefully)..I can execute a no x-wind take-off the way it is now.

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Reply #103 - Jun 30^th, 2008 at 7:28pm

NickN Offline
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I will include a soundset for blown engine failure (piston clank) and also one for the water on the boat hull for the bow FX in the finished package

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Reply #104 - Jun 30^th, 2008 at 7:29pm

Jim Hodkinson Offline
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Hi Nick

I forgot to mention that I had the Martin Clipper already downloaded, but I had not installed it.

After doing so, just to check out the panel set up, it seems that the author has gone for a mixture of the California Classics gauges and some DC3 gauges, but now I’ve seen Bobs photographs it seems that we are somewhere in between the two, as from the look of the main panel flight instruments they appear to be of a relatively modern design given the squared off gauge surround.

So I think we are approximately correct, that’s approximately with a capital A.

Jim Hodkinson

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Reply #105 - Jun 30^th, 2008 at 7:30pm

NickN Offline
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Brett_Henderson wrote on Jun 30^th, 2008 at 7:27pm:

I can't work on this until the AM.. but it shouldn't take long to test reversers.

As for ground-ops.. I can not only taxi (very carefully)..I can execute a no x-wind take-off the way it is now.

On the wheels??

LOL

I was not thinking of her taking off on them, more about crawing up on a beach or ramp

very cool though

What you think of my blown engines? (last page)

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Reply #106 - Jun 30^th, 2008 at 7:32pm

NickN Offline
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Jim Hodkinson wrote on Jun 30^th, 2008 at 7:29pm:

Hi Nick

I forgot to mention that I had the Martin Clipper already downloaded, but I had not installed it.

After doing so, just to check out the panel set up, it seems that the author has gone for a mixture of the California Classics gauges and some DC3 gauges, but now I’ve seen Bobs photographs it seems that we are somewhere in between the two, as from the look of the main panel flight instruments they appear to be of a relatively modern design given the squared off gauge surround.

So I think we are approximately correct, that’s approximately with a capital A.

Jim Hodkinson

Hey... being its a NAVY plane, its good enough for government work

LOL

just kidding Bob.. ~~!!

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Reply #107 - Jun 30^th, 2008 at 7:39pm

NickN Offline
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Well darn, I assigned a key for engine fire extiguish but I cant seem to put the fire out once it starts..

toys toys toys

LOL

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Reply #108 - Jun 30^th, 2008 at 7:39pm

Jim Hodkinson Offline
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Hi Nick

Tell me about it, the ones I’ve flown in from my point of view would not pass any certification for civilian use, passenger comfort is not really a big issue for mil aircraft from what I’ve experienced.

And a total lack of cute airhostess as well, sorry are we still allowed to refer to them as that, I can’t keep track.

Jim Hodkinson

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Reply #109 - Jun 30^th, 2008 at 7:39pm

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NickN wrote on Jun 30^th, 2008 at 7:30pm:

Brett_Henderson wrote on Jun 30^th, 2008 at 7:27pm:

I can't work on this until the AM.. but it shouldn't take long to test reversers.

As for ground-ops.. I can not only taxi (very carefully)..I can execute a no x-wind take-off the way it is now.

On the wheels??

LOL

I was not thinking of her taking off on them, more about crawing up on a beach or ramp

very cool though

What you think of my blown engines? (last page)

That smoke is amazing (especially seeing wind affect it)

I wouldn't want to make a habit out of ground take-offs Shocked

Shocked

... if you run real weather, the wind would make that tricky.. but it's more than stable enough to taxi down a ramp.. Are there any ramps of that sort in the FSX world ?

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Reply #110 - Jun 30^th, 2008 at 7:45pm

Jim Hodkinson Offline
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Hi all

As fun as this has been, it’s now nearly 1 am here and you guys type faster than I do, so it’s back to the panel for me for just a little longer before some sleep.

Bye for now.

Jim Hodkinson

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Reply #111 - Jun 30^th, 2008 at 8:12pm

NickN Offline
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Jim Hodkinson wrote on Jun 30^th, 2008 at 7:45pm:

Hi all

As fun as this has been, it’s now nearly 1 am here and you guys type faster than I do, so it’s back to the panel for me for just a little longer before some sleep.

Bye for now.

Jim Hodkinson

Rest well Jim

I am not far behind

A blown piston and oil fire story....

Now if I can just figure out how to get the engine fire extiguisher to work it would be complete...

Everything works off the failure system except the fire control

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Reply #112 - Jun 30^th, 2008 at 9:11pm

Bob70 Offline
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NickN wrote on Jun 30^th, 2008 at 8:12pm:

Jim Hodkinson wrote on Jun 30^th, 2008 at 7:45pm:

Hi all

As fun as this has been, it’s now nearly 1 am here and you guys type faster than I do, so it’s back to the panel for me for just a little longer before some sleep.

Bye for now.

Jim Hodkinson

Rest well Jim

I am not far behind

A blown piston and oil fire story....

[img]

[img]

[img]

[img]

[img]

[img]

Now if I can just figure out how to get the engine fire extiguisher to work it would be complete...

Everything works off the failure system except the fire control

Nick

Those look just great. I just can't wait. I'm a poet and don't know it. Grin

Grin

YES

there are some airports in FSX that have seaplane ramps that are usable.

Bob

Camelback Mountain....Looking north from Sky Harbor Int. KPHX Phoenix, Arizona USA

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Reply #113 - Jun 30^th, 2008 at 9:19pm

NickN Offline
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Bob70 wrote on Jun 30^th, 2008 at 9:11pm:

NickN wrote on Jun 30^th, 2008 at 8:12pm:

Jim Hodkinson wrote on Jun 30^th, 2008 at 7:45pm:

Hi all

As fun as this has been, it’s now nearly 1 am here and you guys type faster than I do, so it’s back to the panel for me for just a little longer before some sleep.

Bye for now.

Jim Hodkinson

Rest well Jim

I am not far behind

A blown piston and oil fire story....

[img]

[img]

[img]

Now if I can just figure out how to get the engine fire extiguisher to work it would be complete...

Everything works off the failure system except the fire control

Nick

Those look just great. I just can't wait. I'm a poet and don't know it. Grin

Grin

YES

there are some airports in FSX that have seaplane ramps that are usable.

Bob

Hey Bob... did she "CreeeeeeeeeeK" and have "structure stress" sounds or was she solid while barreling through the water?

I can add some creaking to the water "wooooossssh" on the hull for powered T/O

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Reply #114 - Jun 30^th, 2008 at 9:41pm

Bob70 Offline
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Do you know what it feels and sounds like floating down the rapids of the mighty Colorado river in a fifty gallan steel drum? Grin

Grin

That's pretty close, Wink

Wink

when the water is choppy.

Camelback Mountain....Looking north from Sky Harbor Int. KPHX Phoenix, Arizona USA

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Reply #115 - Jun 30^th, 2008 at 10:08pm

NickN Offline
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Bob70 wrote on Jun 30^th, 2008 at 9:41pm:

Do you know what it feels and sounds like floating down the rapids of the mighty Colorado river in a fifty gallan steel drum? Grin

Grin

That's pretty close, Wink

Wink

when the water is choppy.

Done

She has that steel creeeeeeeek when she is under power in the water

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Reply #116 - Jun 30^th, 2008 at 11:49pm

NickN Offline
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Jim

Spoted a problem with the interior sound set.. there is a skipping noise in the loop so I will take them into Sony Sound Studio and clean them up

While I am in there I will add a bit more low freq 'kicker' to them for those who have 5.1 or other surround with sub woofers..

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Reply #117 - Jul 1^st, 2008 at 2:09am

NickN Offline
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Brett... if you get a chance, take a look at how she stalls

.. LOL as in,... it doesn't

I could not get her to stall in the traditional sense with full flaps, nose up. It never dropped below 60kts and when it approached that speed the nose just dropped down and it did the 'dipsity-do' like a paper airplane, over and over LOL

I wonder if that oswald is still a touch too high

EDIT:
Or I guess it could be the nature of the design too.. the CG, wing location and the 'honking' nose on this thing may really create that behavior. The more I look at the numbers, the more I am starting to think the real plane has a similar aerodynamic characteristic. Being a huge transport I can see how they may have wanted a design that 'lofts'. Although a lot of power goes into getting the loads into the air, coming down is a clumsy chore but easier to get her into tight places because of how she lofts along on decent which would make sense for a military aircraft like this.

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Reply #118 - Jul 1^st, 2008 at 6:50am

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NickN wrote on Jul 1^st, 2008 at 2:09am:

Brett... if you get a chance, take a look at how she stalls

.. LOL as in,... it doesn't

I could not get her to stall in the traditional sense with full flaps, nose up. It never dropped below 60kts and when it approached that speed the nose just dropped down and it did the 'dipsity-do' like a paper airplane, over and over LOL

I wonder if that oswald is still a touch too high

EDIT:
Or I guess it could be the nature of the design too.. the CG, wing location and the 'honking' nose on this thing may really create that behavior. The more I look at the numbers, the more I am starting to think the real plane has a similar aerodynamic characteristic. Being a huge transport I can see how they may have wanted a design that 'lofts'. Although a lot of power goes into getting the loads into the air, coming down is a clumsy chore but easier to get her into tight places because of how she lofts along on decent which would make sense for a military aircraft like this.

Stalling has always bee a problem for the MSFS engine. Especially with larger aircraft. I can get it to stall with lots of "up" trim. I'll see if there's an airfile tweak for actually getting the stall to "break".

Edit: I just tried a couple of tests.. got her to break pretty cleanly both fully and lightly loaded. Stall horn blaring and dropping like a rock Huh

Huh

What still amazes me about the MSFS engine, is how loading is modeled. Try her with 20 % fuel and 'only' 1000lbs of Crew/Passenger. Full power has her jumping out of the water like Sea Gull Cheesy

Cheesy

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Reply #119 - Jul 1^st, 2008 at 10:10am

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OK... this prop reversing is giving me fits. The only way I've gotten it to "seem" to work, is a configuration that won't let the engines idle.. they'll die without some forward thrust (which is a problem for flying boats)..

I've even searched for other, large piston-powered aircraft (fs9 and FSX) for ideas, and none have reversing props. I did find a couple of FS9 only with prop-reversing shown in the cfg file, but I can't test them (and I'd bet it doesn't work).

I got a feeling that MSFS (or at least FSX) doesn't like prop-reversing on anything other than turbine powered aircraft.

Jim.. if you can figure it out, let me know, else I'm abandoning reversers for this beast.

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Reply #120 - Jul 1^st, 2008 at 10:34am

NickN Offline
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Hopefully, and from the postings I have read by Phil and Tim about CORE, we may be seeing a new engine for FS11. No one has said anything yet about specifics in their blogs but from what I have read CORE is coming in v1 whichis the current CORE, v2 and v3. As soon as Aces releases Trains2 and then switches from Trains2 to FS11 Phil said he would start to blog/report on FS11 and whats happening. Given technology changes and the shifts at Aces I think we may be in for some fun in the next round of MSFS.

We will just have to wait and see what Phil comes up with next year, or the year after. Hes been keeping things up to date in his blog so I am sure he will let us know as soon as he can about what they have up their sleeve for FSXI

I will take a peek at the reverser too. Panels I dont know but that part I may be able to do something with. If anything I may be able to get the reverser to work by throttle and sound FX even if I can not get the physics result

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Reply #121 - Jul 1^st, 2008 at 12:30pm

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I found some data on the aircraft that may suggest the issues we were seeing in the water were because of the prop diameter... its too high @ 17ft. The originals were 15.2 and under

Also, the engine according to the manufacture is direct injected and not carb..

Going to make a few small changes and see how this works. I got reverse to work visually.. just not with physics at this point

I am checking on the engines further however it appears we are missing the tuboprop engine data too

EDIT:
Yep.. Turbo props and it also appears someone has been posting the wrong info at Wiki

http://books.google.com/books?id=WgYseR_WgKwC&pg=PA85&lpg=PA85&dq=Pratt+%26Whitn...

SP-5B = Pratt J60 turboprop engines

Someone who was a crewman posted here (2nd post down) that points out the error
http://aeroweb.brooklyn.cuny.edu/specs/martin/p5m-2.htm

They probably swiched to the P&W TP on the PM-2 models later made

EDIT again.. Something is wrong.. that is a turbofan, not turbo prop unless P&W made a J60 TP model. checking now

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Reply #122 - Jul 1^st, 2008 at 1:12pm

NickN Offline
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OK

Mystery solved

I should have just logged int the boeing system to begin with. I still have some access but not as much as I would like sometimes.. LOL

Here is the deal... the SP-5B was going to be redesigned and fitted with a turbofan jet engine.. it never made it past prototype

There were 2 companys bidding on the engine... GE and P&W. Both were placed into the design for testing

http://www.geae.com/engines/military/j85/index.html

So the person who posted that info is either getting old and did not remember correctly or they were part of the prototype testing program, one of the two

(Model 313) P5M-3 - Prototype 4 engined variant, later with
jet engine and BLC system as the P7M-1.
Mock-up only built in 1956.

The engines that went into the model we are working with were upgraded to 3750HP each too so the reduction in prop and increase in HP will probably balance out. The turbo-compound system increased the HP a few

R-3350-32WA 3,750 hp turbo-compound 185.66cid

this is one of those "odd-ball" situations where the engine has turbo properties but is not a tuboprop engine. The TP came about later and replaced these designs

So I will import the new numbers I found into the config and see what happens

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Reply #123 - Jul 1^st, 2008 at 2:04pm

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I hope you don't get carried away lol..

The visual model we're working with is definately piston-powered. The numbers I put into the cfg are pretty accurate for the 3350 engine.

The goofy prop-reduction is a hangover from working with a modified DC-3 prop (I have no idea why they had it at 1.7:1.. but at 1:1 the engine won't start)..

If you have to incorporate some sort of turbine engine to get the reversers to work.. the turbine lag will be more harmful than not having reverse.

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Reply #124 - Jul 1^st, 2008 at 2:13pm

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And.. we're already working under the constraints of the MSFS engine, in that we're fudging turbo-charging, for what was actually super-charging. It's no biggie so long as the max/min MP numbers are accurate, as well as the critical altitude (that's hugely important)..

Edit: And.... the engines are located some 5 feet above the reference line; the float-points are some 10 feet below it. The prop would have to have a cfg diameter of 30+ feet (15' radius) for it to affect water ops. That probelm was an FS9 airfile hangover.

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Reply #125 - Jul 1^st, 2008 at 2:38pm

NickN Offline
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Brett_Henderson wrote on Jul 1^st, 2008 at 2:13pm:

And.. we're already working under the constraints of the MSFS engine, in that we're fudging turbo-charging, for what was actually super-charging. It's no biggie so long as the max/min MP numbers are accurate, as well as the critical altitude (that's hugely important)..

Edit: And.... the engines are located some 5 feet above the reference line; the float-points are some 10 feet below it. The prop would have to have a cfg diameter of 30+ feet (15' radius) for it to affect water ops. That probelm was an FS9 airfile hangover.

I see that now

I did correct the fuel pressure issue in the air file so the panel now has no red light on fuel pressue. .. and did get reverse pitch to work visually, just wont affect the physics in the sim. RP is not available in that air file

No, I did not mess with engine other than to bump up the cid, HP (SC bottle boost) and change the prop dia to the specs I got out of the system

No worries.. I'm not messin it up LOL

I just thought I would try a few things... Jim tells me the VC light works (with lnd lights on) with the old air file but not the new one so I was looking at that too

EDIT:

Engines (a) 2 Curtiss-Wright R3350-32WA Reduction gear ratio 16:7

Engine Limits* (a) R-3350-32WA

Takeoff (5 minutes wet)

BHP RPM Man Press in HG Altitude (ft)

3700 2900 59.0 2000

Maximum Continuous

2800 2600 50.0 4000

(sea level HG 51.5)

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Reply #126 - Jul 1^st, 2008 at 3:30pm

Bob70 Offline
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Well the engines in the P5M aircraft that we had were piston type. I was a aircraft electrician, but as I remember they were Pratt and Whitney 3300 or 3350

This pic may help.

Bob

Camelback Mountain....Looking north from Sky Harbor Int. KPHX Phoenix, Arizona USA

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Reply #127 - Jul 1^st, 2008 at 3:51pm

NickN Offline
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I saw that Bob when I was digging up info, so the person that posted P&W may have meant the original models

The google book listed a turofan jet engine and I checked that out as the prototypes for the series that were meant for mid 60's release but never made it

P5M-2 in the mid-late 50's and early 60's with the T tail are registered with the Curtiss-Wright R3350-32WA

Did you work on the T tail M-2's?

The 40's and early 50's models were definitely P&W

I bet they may have been switching engines too... It would not surprise me if the PM-2's would fit the P&W's and they may have been swaping them around.

Dont know but the history was fun to research.

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Reply #128 - Jul 1^st, 2008 at 5:39pm

NickN Offline
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I am waiting for textures from Anthony so i am taking advantage of the time

Fixed:

1.
Fuel pressure... increased in air file, now correct in panel

2.
Minor specs changed for engine and prop

.. made a difference in a few areas, stall was one of them.. and Brett, I read up on these things, they were designed to have a nearly "stall and drop" landing and in fact that maneuver was done all the time in them, even the larger ones LOL!! So that behavior is normal but now it does stall a bit more efficiently now. I did not make any major changes.

3.
VC light "on" with landing light "on" is still a no-go. I cant seem to figure that one out at all. I am beginning to think its some kind of FSX panel issue

4.
Made some changes in the stress area.. was a bit too high originally which allowed the aircraft to tumble through the air and smack into the water without stopping.. unrealistic.

5.
We all know reverse is not possible w/o being a turboprop so I dropped that idea. They did have this function in the later models according to what I read.

Brett.. you said you made changes to the gear system so she could roll.. can you post those please?

I will send everyone the changes I made in the config and air file later today

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Reply #129 - Jul 1^st, 2008 at 5:45pm

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The last cfg/air file I sent you, should have the contact points that work for ground ops. Just start a flight at a land airport..

If you start a flight in water, and THEN "go to" a land airport, the wheels will be stuck under-ground. That's because of the lack of scrape points. I eliminated them as a variable when tuning the float points.. beacause they don't work well with FS9 models in FSX.

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Reply #130 - Jul 1^st, 2008 at 6:03pm

NickN Offline
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Brett_Henderson wrote on Jul 1^st, 2008 at 5:45pm:

The last cfg/air file I sent you, should have the contact points that work for ground ops. Just start a flight at a land airport..

If you start a flight in water, and THEN "go to" a land airport, the wheels will be stuck under-ground. That's because of the lack of scrape points. I eliminated them as a variable when tuning the float points.. beacause they don't work well with FS9 models in FSX.

Ahhh, OK

I was able to taxi it out of the water and it worked fine

UPDATE ON THE VC lights... I am able to get the VC lights to stay on if I turn on the overhead panel lights and cycle the landing lights so I think there is something wrong in the panel

It seems to me there is some type of DPDP relay problem in the code. If I cycle the landing lights I must cycle the DOME light switch and then they stay on

Too bad the landing "beam" is so darn bright.. it would be nice if Aces allows single A/c assignment of bitmap for that and allow adjustment of scale in FS11

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Reply #131 - Jul 1^st, 2008 at 6:45pm

NickN Offline
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Hey, Jim

we do need mixture controls if possible.

I took her up to her max alt (about 22-23K) and mix would be nice to have so keyboard is not required

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Reply #132 - Jul 2^nd, 2008 at 5:08am

NickN Offline
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Update sent via email

Make sure to save what you have and then just let it overwrite

updated air file with fuel pressure and a few other minor changes

updated aircraft.cfg with added weight stations, updated engine data, changes in prop engineering and minor changes to flight tuning

updated sound files.. fixed 'skip' in audio track and also enhanced the low freq

Updated FX and associated sound files

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Reply #133 - Jul 2^nd, 2008 at 9:13am

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I just took the "final" edition on a shakedown flight. I'm pretty pleased with what we've come up with; considering the limitations and obstacles.

It gives a pleasingly realistic experience from takeof to landing. Love the water and smoke effects, and the 'on-the-water' sounds.

Aside from the "clunky" VC model (I'd sure like to convert this exterior model to FSX format and then build a VC from scratch), it's a GREAT freeware port-over.

One last request for the panel guy (hi Jim

).. A VC pop-up icon for the navigator's panel.

Oh.. and maybe a new pop-up window for the auto-pilot. As it sits now, you gotta <shift+1> to get the 2D panel for auto-pilot setting.

No hurry, though.. Wink

Wink

Edit: one last thing (I promise)... some sort of trim indicator so that you can set takeoff trim without having to guess and grope for it on takeoff roll (is it called a "roll" on water ?)

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Reply #134 - Jul 2^nd, 2008 at 11:42am

NickN Offline
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Jim is going to be away for a few days so I think it may be time to let our resident PM-5 crew member test what we have.

Bob.. I will package it up and send it to you with instructions for overwrite of the original and use. Its not finished panel and paint wise but I think its time to let you loose with it and get feedback from you on what we have so far.

It will probably be later today because I need to start a "readme" for it and its installation anyway and now is a good time to start making that too

I understand Jim sent you something about a possible 'reverse' ability Brett... let me know if that will work or not. If it means switching to turboprop I know that won't work.

The supercharger could be addressed by using the EMERGENCY POWER system the sim allows but that would require special gauges be made and tuned for the booster. What I did was make some changes to the prop engineering to simulate a 'wide open throttle' supercharger which seems to have resolved the power issue but it also means the current RPM gauges are a bit off and could use some fine tuning to make them vary in sync with the throttle better.

The original props were 36-38 degree pitch from the info I found on the Wright engines so the changes I made were not that outrageous and were a bit more realistic to the original aircraft.

Also, the station loads now dictate the aircraft behavior in the water and in flight. If the user wishes to have more challenge in water takeoff and flight behavior, a simple addition of 100-500-1000lbs (each) to the following stations will provide that:

station_load.0 = 170, 33.0, -1.3, 3.6 // "Pilot" Weight (lbs), longitudinal, lateral, vertical positions from datum (feet)
station_load.1 = 170, 33.0, 1.3, 3.6 // "Co-Pilot"

station_load.2 = 4180, 34.0, 0.0, -4.6 // "crew and equipment"

station_load.3 = 350, 30.0, 0.0, -4.6 // "crew and passengers"
station_load.4 = 350, 25.0, 0.0, -4.6 // "crew or passengers"

station_load.5 = 4180, 18.0, 0.0, -4.6 // "cargo"
station_load.6 = 3180, 12.0, 0.0, -4.6 // "cargo"
station_load.7 = 2180, 5.0, 0.0, -4.6 // "cargo"
station_load.8 = 1080, 0.0, 0.0, -4.6 // "cargo"

station_load.9 = 880, -6.0, 0.0, -5.6 // "cargo"
station_load.10 = 590, -18.0, 0.0, -5.6 // "cargo"
station_load.11 = 250, -24.0, 0.0, -5.6 // "cargo"
station_load.12 = 180, -32.0, 0.0, -6.6 // "cargo"

I can simulate JATO units with visuals but I can not add a true "rocket" boost from them. If I could add that boost then the weight can be trimmed higher (up into the 20K+ range... just over 30K is max) and allow the realistic takeoff assist. It could be done with the BOOST system that is allowed though although I would need to exaggerate that systems response to make it work right.

the original engine had a 16:7 gear reduction which is another way we could get the boost power out of the system.. it could vary the prop pitch for the JATO assist simulation too which when tuned correctly with the GR would simulate that very well but that would also require a set of custom RPM gauges to take into account the boost/GR/pitch change, which the King Air I think does now.

Just thoughts and right now she is very impressive compared to the original without any such fancy systems.

I will send the package to you later Bob. If I have any problem getting it out today i will let you know

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Reply #135 - Jul 2^nd, 2008 at 2:55pm

NickN Offline
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I upped the celing a bit.. I was reading some pilot storys about how they could push her up to about 27-28000 but it was not an easy ride going past 23K and coming back down either.. so she will do that now as well and you must take a lot of care, make sure deice is on for wings. pilot, etc or you can lose control very easy.

Coming down from above 25K its best not to be under power and drop the engines to just above idle

I just flew her for a few hours and put her through all the paces.. went from orca's to Portland and landed back as Seattle at Kenmore Harbor.. a few high altitude close calls (forgot wing deice) but I topped her out struggling at just over 27000 after a very long push up... and then a carefull ride back down.

All this thing needs now is a completed panel and cosmetics.. and anything else I can think of to enhance the show LOL

rockets would be nice
Cheesy

Cheesy

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Reply #136 - Jul 2^nd, 2008 at 6:26pm

NickN Offline
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OK Bob I am going to send the package to your email address from this forum...

It will come with instructions

Let us know what you think and if it flys like you remember

Keep in mind the panel is still under construction

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Reply #137 - Jul 2^nd, 2008 at 8:03pm

Bob70 Offline
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NickN wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2008 at 6:26pm:

OK Bob I am going to send the package to your email address from this forum...

It will come with instructions

Let us know what you think and if it flys like you remember

Keep in mind the panel is still under construction

Hi Nick

Thanks for all the work you and the rest of the team did on this project. Also thanks for giving me the chance to be one of the first to fly her. Both files came through with no problems. There shouldn't be no problems with the installation, but if there is I can get back with you. It's going to be a fun night. Will let you know how it goes and post some screens tomorrow.

Bob

Camelback Mountain....Looking north from Sky Harbor Int. KPHX Phoenix, Arizona USA

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Reply #138 - Jul 2^nd, 2008 at 9:24pm

NickN Offline
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Don't stay up too late young man!!

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Reply #139 - Jul 3^rd, 2008 at 10:38am

NickN Offline
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Found a bug in the propwash gauge.. FX do not appear under rain conditions.. fixing it today and I am assuming this is not a FSX bug which is tied to the gauges and smoke system when rain or snow is present.

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Reply #140 - Jul 3^rd, 2008 at 11:48am

NickN Offline
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Gauge fixed.. FX now working in all weather and wet surface conditions

I may take a look at the sound file again.. it seems the engine RPM sound in the exterior view is too low, too soon... engines sound like they are too low RPM for low throttle position

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Reply #141 - Jul 3^rd, 2008 at 6:24pm

Bob70 Offline
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NickN wrote on Jul 2^nd, 2008 at 9:24pm:

Don't stay up too late young man!!

Well we got her flying. For some reason step no3 didn't install it. I finally just installed everything manually. Everything seems to be working OK. When the final version is available for download from Simvaition I'll delete what I have now and reinstall it. No problems getting her airborne. Looking good so far. Nice sounding creaks. Grin

Grin

Bob

Camelback Mountain....Looking north from Sky Harbor Int. KPHX Phoenix, Arizona USA

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Reply #142 - Jul 4^th, 2008 at 12:06am

NickN Offline
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Let us know how she flys and handles for you

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Reply #143 - Jul 4^th, 2008 at 12:52am

Bob70 Offline
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NickN wrote on Jul 4^th, 2008 at 12:06am:

Let us know how she flys and handles for you

Well Nick I've got a few hours on her. She seems smooth and responsive to control inputs. I haven't been horsing her around. I'm still learning how she flies. Had a little bit of trouble getting her trimmed to hold level flight. That's probably just me. I'm getting better at it. The water rudder is real responsive. Have to be gentle with it to make a nice smooth turn. Overall I think she handles just fine. I don't think anyone will have any great difficulty flying her. Practice practice. It gets easier. She is real fun landing. Really like the way she sounds. Well add updates down the line as I notice things.

Bob

Camelback Mountain....Looking north from Sky Harbor Int. KPHX Phoenix, Arizona USA

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Reply #144 - Jul 4^th, 2008 at 2:05am

NickN Offline
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I tweaked the rudder with a bit too much deflection angle and have already fixed that

Apparently the VC light issue is tied to the FX and at this point I have to assume its a FS8/FS9 model issue because those same FX files are used on all my aircraft and this is the only one that displays the problem with the panel lights going off when the landing lights are turned on

Tomorrow I will look over the FX and see if I can spot the cause. Its possible the number of draw calls for the landing light is the reason.. not sure. I absolutely will not release this aircraft with the default FSX light files so if need be I will write a gauge for override on the VC light regardless of the landing light operation.

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Reply #145 - Jul 4^th, 2008 at 6:24pm

NickN Offline
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Did some work on the sound set to tweak the RPM in line with those military deep throat engines and add more depth to them. I use 10000ft @ mix and cruise speed to set the correct base pitch and sound.

Its cookout/fireworks day so I am off to enjoy the occasion

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Reply #146 - Jul 4^th, 2008 at 9:44pm

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Ive been following this thread for awhile, it made me realize how much work goes into designing, or even updating an aircraft.

It makes me wish I had FSX to test out the finished product, it sounds like its gonna be amazing when its finished.

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Reply #147 - Jul 4^th, 2008 at 11:08pm

NickN Offline
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JSpahn wrote on Jul 4^th, 2008 at 9:44pm:

Ive been following this thread for awhile, it made me realize how much work goes into designing, or even updating an aircraft.

It makes me wish I had FSX to test out the finished product, it sounds like its gonna be amazing when its finished.

If its done right, and assuming the model is made from scratch.. you are looking at about a year, perhaps a bit longer

Since we already have a model its much easier but still, if you want the aircraft to respond like a realistic counterpart you must take the time to test, retest and tweak.

The panel is going to be the major PITA to get right since we have no access to the VC in the model and must use what we have to work with

//-----------------------------------------------

OK guys.. emailed the sound and config update

She should sound more like a real Navy girl .. hot to trot when her throttle is tickled now

A nice healthy set of.. superchargers Tongue

Tongue

Cheesy

Grin

let me know how she sounds now Bob and if that sound update does not ring any bells from the past Grin

Grin

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Reply #148 - Jul 5^th, 2008 at 12:43am

Bob70 Offline
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[/quote]

OK guys.. emailed the sound and config update

She should sound more like a real Navy girl .. hot to trot when her throttle is tickled now

A nice healthy set of.. superchargers Tongue

Tongue

Cheesy

Grin

let me know how she sounds now Bob and if that sound update does not ring any bells from the past Grin

Grin

[/quote]

Will do Nick

Did you check out the latest screen-shots in payware. Sunset on the Salton. It's a great place to practice flying her. The Salton Sea is where the new and old P5M pilots used to learn and practice flying her.

Bob

Camelback Mountain....Looking north from Sky Harbor Int. KPHX Phoenix, Arizona USA

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Reply #149 - Jul 5^th, 2008 at 7:31pm

NickN Offline
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The VC light is a FS8/9 model problem. The issue is the use of the model itself somehow limits the number of light calls from any source... in other words, the call "LIGHT" in the FX files being used can only be rendered so many times and then the model somehow forces the sim to switch one off for priority of another.

I use more "LIGHT" calls in my FSX files than the default lights to produce light 'splash' therefore the issue is seen. No other aircraft I am or have used has ever caused this problem so I must assume at this point it is tied to the model itself.

I can remove 2 landing light entries and the dome stays on without the dome switch, however the white nav light "splash" on the top of the aircraft above the cockpit goes out with the landing lights at that point.

So at this point I have to figure out a workaround.. either a condition XML gauge or redo of the FX files.. which I dont like considering

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Reply #150 - Jul 5^th, 2008 at 8:47pm

NickN Offline
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...Fixed RPM gauge and calibration

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Reply #151 - Jul 6^th, 2008 at 9:08pm

NickN Offline
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Just so you guys know I took a bit of a break from all the FSX dev work for the holiday weekend and will get back to this next week

I am still waiting for a another set of textures from Anthony at GEX so I have a few free days left to work with her

Brett, the flight dynamics are outstanding.. You really got her to a point I did not think was possible and without your critical input in experience we could not have gotten her where she is now.

I did make a few more changes to the sound files after the last update was sent out.. mostly low idle sounds. Jim sent a very cool PDF file on the panel and I will get a close look at it this week along with attack the dome light issue.

As for a repaint.. I dont think I am going to have time to squeeze that in before I must go back to GEXn production. I did collect the color palet information though. At this point I think the focus should be on the panel and VC and anything that can be done to clean that up a bit better like the window frames, etc.. another area I will look at this week

Once we get to a finished product everyone can give her a spin for final test with any changes

I will try for the paint but I dont want to release anything that ends up looking like a 'rush job"

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Reply #152 - Jul 6^th, 2008 at 9:56pm

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light at the end of the tunnel ? Cheesy

Cheesy

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Reply #153 - Jul 6^th, 2008 at 11:23pm

NickN Offline
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LOL!

As for flight dynamics I think we have a rap but dont be a stranger to this thread.. as Jim and I get closer on the panel we will probably need some input from a pilots perspective on the design.

Its really a shame we are limited on the VC or I would have likes to make a mockup of the original with Bobs images and a few others

I think I may resize the overhead and make it visible with the VC.. not sure yet. Too bad about the AP and its location. If the original developer had put a bitmap space in for that we could have used it for the AP in the VC.. may have a few ideas about that one yet too.. I may fudge the cockpit panel and see if I can make that work still.

At this point the cockpit and the few minor lighting bugs is the primary focus with repaint last on the punch list.

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Reply #154 - Jul 7^th, 2008 at 6:55am

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I'll just keep flying it, and flying it... That's the best way to see things, and come up with ideas. Not flights so much to be scribbling down performance numbers.. but flights from a piloting perspective... different loads, weather, duration, purpose. THAT'S when the light-bulbs pop up over your head.. Cheesy

Cheesy

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Reply #155 - Jul 9^th, 2008 at 10:15pm

NickN Offline
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I had a few very long days with the launch of FSWC and one which lasted almost 38 hours so I had to take a break on everything..

Will be back in the saddle with this tomorrow!

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Reply #156 - Jul 14^th, 2008 at 12:18am

NickN Offline
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Jim and I are hard at work on the panel for this.. we are hashing out the original design and seeing if it can be better optimized.

The dome light issue is fixed but it did require I had to make some canges to the FX files.. not my first choice but the model file simply will not run any more than a certain number of light emitters in each FX file.

There have been changes to the main VC and to the sounds although flight dynamics remain as they were and are a done deal.

Repaint may not make it in.. that one is still up in the air but the panels are certainly getting a once over.

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Reply #157 - Jul 14^th, 2008 at 6:57am

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Excellent

The 707 has been released, so I'm spending my free-sim-time puting the Marlinr through some "pilot piont of view" flying situations..

I'll report back soon.

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Reply #158 - Jul 14^th, 2008 at 1:31pm

NickN Offline
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Once we get it to a certain point I will package it up and post it for testing

The panel changes are more about organization of controls than than major changes. The VC got a facelift too and looks much better now

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Reply #159 - Jul 16^th, 2008 at 2:32am

NickN Offline
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The Marlin now has a fully functional supercharger calibrated to model the original design (found the specs on it) which if over-revved for too long, will blow the manifold with full fire and smoke FX

It will also allow the user to back off the throttle if they catch it in time and the engine will recover as it cools down however it will lose a percentage of horsepower depending on how long it was throttled too high... too long and its a dead engine with no return

Backlit VC is not possible due to the model maker not providing the lightmap in the VC

Ligting is now fixed along with a few other system issues whereby the gauges were not reading correctly or were not associated correctly

The original engine start now works and a full cold and dark start sequence which requires the right series of events take place.. ie; power, fuel pump, mag, engine select, mixture, crank... and after crank for correct period, engine then starts and generators kick in

Some corrections and changes to the VC panel were made and as soon as I finish getting the XML fixed on the existing gauge package a final layout of gauges will take place and last the manual to operate.

repaint is still not in the 'definite' scope because of the time needed to fix what was/is needed to have a fully functional and dynamic aircraft but its not completely out of the loop quite yet. It will depend on how fast the gauge work can be completed and the aircraft tested... and when the next dump of textures for GEXnEU comes my way

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Reply #160 - Jul 16^th, 2008 at 6:53am

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I wanna test this new engine !! Cheesy

Cheesy

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Reply #161 - Jul 16^th, 2008 at 11:47am

NickN Offline
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he he he

Its the same engine just supercharged and it is working correctly. The only thing about it I have not decided is if I will leave on an automatic rev as throttle is increased, or, place a switch on it to enable or disable the supercharger

If I do the "switch" I will also need to adjust fuel burn ratios in XML too. The correct ratio is enabled with the automatic system and I do not think the real Marlin had the ability to shut the SC down as it was integrated into the system for the USN but I could not locate data on that.

Bob may know that information

As soon as Jim and I get the panel to the point where its time for testing, you will get it

I am also moving everything to the Marlin panel and sound folder too. The only thing that will live outside the SP-5B aircraft folder is the FX so once this is ready for testing you will need to delete everything you currently have except the model folder. The changes to the FX files will overwrite themselves.

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Reply #162 - Jul 17^th, 2008 at 5:38pm

NickN Offline
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I have managed to fix most of the XML with the exception of 2 gauges/switches at this point. All gauges are calibrated now and correctly reading for the 2 Wright R-3350-30WA engines. They are also direct injected not carb's so that has been corrected as well as the fuel pressure for the system.

I have created and modeled the superchargers which are functioning to spec and perfectly. Fuel supply and flow has been corrected for this system. It will burn based on the real dynamics and will deliver the correct range if flown correctly on full tanks

I have not figured out the fire control yet and that does need to happen because you can now blow the manifold or pistons if the engine is over revved for too long. There is a spec on these engines to deliver the full 3700HP and its only in 5 min bursts (will go 15-20 if coaxed) and even with that, damage can occur if pushed too far, too fast. They will provide the 15 min of full horsepower before starting to overheat (not full throttle, full horsepower.. full throttle starts countdown to damage immediately )

The original engines were designed to withstand a nominal time on full HP for T/O and emergencies but if pushed too long they will start to blow cylinders one by one. If you catch it in time the engine will still run on the remaining working cylinders but at reduced power based on the loss before it was caught, feathered and cooled down.

A cool down period is also programmed into it... the longer it was run too high before recovery, the longer it will take to come back up

I have corrected the panel lighting problem and also re written the instrument light XML so it works

Once I get everything finished and tested Jim and I will start looking at the overhead layout based on the gauges we need up there.

I may, mind you.. may model the JATO system using a trick in XML by altering the gear ratio to the props. I can do that and mimic the JATO bottle boost, and, also add the rocket flair and thrust on a timed burn. That one I have not decided on yet however I know can be done.

What I will do when I am ready is package everything up and post it for download (too large for email) so Jim and I are on the exact same page and there is nothing different about what I have and what he has. At that point we can look over the rest, make needed changes and then wrap it up with a manual.

I would really love to do a Navy BLUE repaint however I don’t think I am going to have time. I will probably however at the very least do some detail and cleanup work on the original paint.

Once I get the rest of the gauge XML working I will get back with Jim on layout and the manual

Once we get it to where it looks like a winner I will post it to Brett and Bob for review. You guys can let us know if anything is amiss or needs attention before the final packaging

No more full throttle takeoffs.. you must start and use the engines to gauge spec or its POP SPUTTER BANG and if too much.. BOOM and FLAMES

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Reply #163 - Jul 17^th, 2008 at 5:43pm

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This sounds like some really neat stuff.. You already now my desire for modeled engine management, and consequences for mis-management Wink

Wink

Can't wait to be a test pilot Cool

Cool

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Reply #164 - Jul 17^th, 2008 at 5:51pm

NickN Offline
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Brett_Henderson wrote on Jul 17^th, 2008 at 5:43pm:

This sounds like some really neat stuff.. You already now my desire for modeled engine management, and consequences for mis-management Wink

Wink

Can't wait to be a test pilot Cool

Cool

you are going to love this

fully dynamic engine response

you push them too hard too long and they respond based on that.. I have even pushed one to blowing 3 pistons and recovered it, used engine 2 to keep going and managed to get engine1 back 50% after 15 minutes of feathering

I needed it too in order to get over the mountains. E2 kept me going but I had to drop down from 18000 to 7000 to maintain speed and altitude

gauges will read the real torque and man pressure which I calibrated based on the specs

One thing that is different.. back in the day they used a very high octane fuel for these to get the HP out of them.. dang near jet fuel which is no longer available today nor is it modeled in the sim however I compensated by calibrating the supercharger boost so it will power just like the real deal

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Reply #165 - Jul 17^th, 2008 at 6:49pm

AMDDDA Offline
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Is there a chance for a ~~wreckless person's~~ less experienced friendly version? Wink

Wink

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Reply #166 - Jul 18^th, 2008 at 5:54pm

NickN Offline
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just keep the manifold pressure below 65 and the airspeed above 8000ft below the redline for true airspeed and you will be fine

the automatic start system will also work as long as you turn on the fuel pumps

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Reply #167 - Jul 19^th, 2008 at 12:15pm

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I just took a few test flights (and emailed you, Nick)..

All I can say is, " TOO MUCH FUN !!"

Cheesy

Cheesy

Shocked

Cool

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Reply #168 - Jul 19^th, 2008 at 2:48pm

NickN Offline
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fun eh?

LOL

As soon as I get all the XML gauges/switches rewritten so they work the way they should I will get with Jim on the panel and send him the changes

This should bring back some memories for Bob.. it takes a real pilot to get her out of the water now fully loaded. A user can adjust the payload weight and use her normally too where she will come out of the water without any problem but they can not abuse her or she will bite back, hard

LOL!

and I may just model that JATO assist too. I know they would load these things down and there could be a JATO version where the config is set for overweight... or I could just leave it as is and let people decide on using the JATO system or try their skill without it.

I may make some switches that allow normal weight, full weight and overweight takeoff and flight options

Can't go too far with this.. I have already exceeded the time I thought it would take originally LOL

buts its been worth it

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Reply #169 - Jul 23^rd, 2008 at 7:56pm

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Interesting article by Andrew Herd at FlightSim.com on Kazunori Ito, author of the freeware Martin Marlin (sp5bvp40.zip). Regrettably, it appears the gentleman's eyesight is failing. Find the article here -
http://www.flightsim.com/cgi/kds?$=main/review/ito/ito2.htm

-Doug

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Reply #170 - Jul 23^rd, 2008 at 9:10pm

Boikat Offline
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Doug Kearney wrote on Jul 23^rd, 2008 at 7:56pm:

Interesting article by Andrew Herd at FlightSim.com on Kazunori Ito, author of the freeware Martin Marlin (sp5bvp40.zip). Regrettably, it appears the gentleman's eyesight is failing. Find the article here -
http://www.flightsim.com/cgi/kds?$=main/review/ito/ito2.htm

-Doug

Kazunori Ito is one of the designers I admire, mainly because of some of his off-beat subjects. When I get started in the designing bit, that's pretty much the same direction I am headed. (I got a list of about 40 "projects" Wink

Wink

)

P. S. Thanks Douge. Now I'm going to have to spend several hours of my precious time downloading the add-on's in that article, and it's all your fault!!

Thank you, thank you, thank you!!!!! Ooooh, Thank you!

"I reject your reality, and substitute my own" Adam Savage, Mythbusters

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Reply #171 - Jul 24^th, 2008 at 12:55am

Doug Kearney Offline
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Broad shoulders here. All blame happily accepted. Wink

Wink

Glad you made a connection with things you want, Boikat.

The reason I posted was to cause the project organizers to consider a renewed approach to Mr. Ito. I don't know if he is aware that the conversion to FSX is intended as a gift to Phil Taylor in particular and as a tribute to Aces in general. There's a thread at Sim-Outhouse with current posts, dating back about a year, in which Mr. Ito's dissatisfaction is recounted with respect to others modifying his work for use in sim programs for which it had not first been designed. Link to thread (4 pages) is

http://www.sim-outhouse.com/sohforums/showthread.php?threadid=57210

The choice to permit modification except with respect to certain essential aspects, recounted earlier in this thread, may be an application of that general policy. If he knew the purpose, the true purpose, and if he were asked to have a significant role in achieving the goal, leader emeritus or that sort of thing, he might offer more access to the things that are currently off limits. Heaven knows, he's certainly talented enough to improve the product. I just think a careful, respectful appeal can be made to him on that level that might be fruitful. He is due that degree of respect and honor, especially in such an honorable goal as the project seeks to achieve.

Simply submitting the work to him for his improvement might achieve that goal. It's a matter of respect, an awfully important matter. If the first request was simply for permission to change things, it could have been perceived as negative commentary on the original product or on his ability to help produce the new one. Might be time to ask again, in a different manner, is all I'm saying. Why accept limitations when you have a chance to dispel them. He should have the opportunity to make this a part of his legacy, I believe, and I think that could be a compelling appeal.

-Doug

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Reply #172 - Jul 24^th, 2008 at 6:08am

NickN Offline
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Doug

Permission was requested and granted well before I even began to make any changes. The only stipulation Mr. Ito made was that the original model not be included. He had no problem with redesigning the panel and flight dynamics or even the paint so long as it was offered as an update to the original and did not include the original model file.

This thread was referenced and he was also invited to follow along. Mr Ito can follow everything we are doing here. I made sure full disclosure to the project and this thread was made available to him.

I know better than to even think about doing something like this without permissions from everyone who may have contributed to what is being used before the project starts. Jim has gotten permission for the gauge package we are using so this is all approved through documentation in email.

As for this project.. it was not intended as a "tribute" to anyone. I like the aircraft myself and intend to get a lot of use out of it. When I saw how much Bob liked it and knowing that Phil has been looking for this exact aircraft I decided to take on the project for the fun of it, not pay tribute to anyone.

This aircraft is a lot of fun to fly and with the mods being made to it the realism in my opinion exceeds many payware products. It may not have a fancy and updated VC since we do not have access to the model file, but it will sure fly and handle like the real deal when we get finished with it, right down to the engine damage from over-rev

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Reply #173 - Jul 24^th, 2008 at 2:02pm

Doug Kearney Offline
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Dallas, TX

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Honest. I wasn't trying to get that much wrong. Natural talent, I guess. Thanks for setting me straight.

I knew you had contacted Mr. Ito and referred him to the thread, and I knew you had permission for what you are doing, but I thought you were somewhat hamstrung without access to the mdl file or the VC, something along those lines. Anyway, it doesn't matter now, given the other things I misunderstood. You've cleared it up.

-Doug

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Reply #174 - Jul 24^th, 2008 at 4:11pm

NickN Offline
Colonel
FSX runs fine... the problem
is you or your system

Posts: 6317

I did ask about access and model use and it was denied. I had no problem with that stipulation and Mr Ito was kind enough to allow any change so long as the model was not included or altered.

My first choice was to redo the VC because it needed a resolution upgrade with additional components. One of the walls I hit with this is there is no backlight map in the VC and I wanted to have backlit gauges as we do for the overhead and the 2D. Unfortunately the map is not in the model so there are things about this which would have been nice to have access to but I do understand and respect Mr Ito's wishes

I made the efforts and extended the invitation to follow the thread. I cant do any more than that

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Reply #175 - Jul 26^th, 2008 at 2:46pm

NickN Offline
Colonel
FSX runs fine... the problem
is you or your system

Posts: 6317

Bob

Do you have Acceleration installed or no?

The reason I ask is because I discovered some of the code I am using --may-- only work with Accel. I am checking into that now to find out for sure but I suspect its an 'Acceleration only' deal.

===================

I discovered this past week I misread some of the specs. Apparently the top end for this bird is not 251 KIAS, its 251 MPH or 219 KIAS with a cruise of 130Kts, not 150.

That changed everything in terms of the engine power curve. I went back to the numbers and also pulled the FAA documents on these engines and recalibrated. Initially I did fudge a few things because of limits to MSFS and assuming the specs I had read at WIKI were correct... however in reconfiguring based on the real BMEP @ hg listed at the FAA for 100/130 fuel burn,.. I found during a test flight the ceiling for the aircraft fully loaded to be 18-19K MAX and not 24,000

That made me scratch my head because the sim is usually not that far off when the real values are applied. In digging into the BMEP I discovered a real BMEP gauge on the net along with Wright's original engineering EGT/Mixture/BMEP specs which provided a lot of missing data and matched the FAA for top end MAX @ 2900 RPM so at that point I knew something was not right.

I figured it out finally

Apparently the net is full of wrong information about this aircraft, including WIKI. The P5M-2 or T-Tail model was refitted with a large amount of heavy gear which is why they upped the HP on this model from 3450 to 3700 with the supercharger. The real ceiling for the P5M-2 T-Tail is exactly 18000ft

That also made me scratch my head because I have been reading pilot and crew accounts of the plane and I know it was the right plane they were describing because they wrote quite specifically it was the P5M-2 T-Tail. One of the accounts noted a pilot managed to take that aircraft (on fumes and no load) up to 27-28Kft which did not make any sense if the max ceiling was 18K.

So I got to thinking... since the P3 variant was the 24K model and the major change was weight and a few body changes perhaps the P5M-2 would indeed make 27K if the fuel and load were removed as in the description I read.

27500 was the max and the aircraft did make that although it took time, was slow and that was a "nose up" max. I could not fly level at that altitude but could fly level at 24K stripped.

Empty = 27.5K (24K level)

Fuel only (full) 22K (level)

Fuel and payload (max weight) 19K (level)

Service Ceiling = 18K

So this past week I have recalibrated the gauges for the correct BMPE and pressure on the manifolds which removed some of the 'fudge' I made originally and replaced it with true values.

I also found some lift/drag equations for the Marlin wings and I reconfigured the Oswald based on those. It needed to come down to between 60 and 63

The next issue is I discovered that the detonation and supercharger power scheme I am using I think is for acceleration only. That means I will need to create an acceleration and non acceleration aircraft config. In order to make the aircraft more realistic to the original the supercharger is required and acceleration provides that. I can fudge it for non-acceleration users but it may not be as accurate. When I get to that point I will decide how to deal with it.

I also fixed the battery drain problem. The batter will discharge now correctly if the generators are not running

So that’s this week's report. It’s going a bit slower than anticipated because I cant work on this constantly and I had to do quite a bit of gauge editing, including face bitmaps. There are still a few problems in gauge code I am still working on.

At this point I have not decided on an acceleration/non-accel version or if I will just rework it for both.

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Reply #176 - Jul 26^th, 2008 at 6:30pm

Bob70 Offline
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Phoenix Arizona , USA

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Bob

Do you have Acceleration installed or no?

The reason I ask is because I discovered some of the code I am using --may-- only work with Accel. I am checking into that now to find out for sure but I suspect its an 'Acceleration only' deal.

No I don't and I have no plans to to get it. I hope the final release will not require Acceleration or SP2. Also I'm not upgrading to Vista on this computer.

Bob

Camelback Mountain....Looking north from Sky Harbor Int. KPHX Phoenix, Arizona USA

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Reply #177 - Jul 26^th, 2008 at 7:17pm

NickN Offline
Colonel
FSX runs fine... the problem
is you or your system

Posts: 6317

Sp2 wont matter.

OK, I can work around the accel code

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Reply #178 - Jul 31^st, 2008 at 3:54pm

NickN Offline
Colonel
FSX runs fine... the problem
is you or your system

Posts: 6317

Does anyone wish to try their hand at paint on this bird?

I am working out all the power curve, gauge and consequence issues but with GEX its a bit slow getting it all together and I know I wont have time for a repaint.

If someone out there would like to do a nice repaint in the original Navy Blue color scheme and you think you can handle it please post.

its a very simple layout which is currently low res. It would be nice to have a bit better res with a touch of reflection if possible.

I finally figured out the RPM problem which was tied back to the fact that Wright, the engine manufacture, has a reduction factored into the prop system before the main 16:7 gear reduction takes place. That small fraction was just enough to throw off the RPM/prop speed and that has now been corrected. (Thank you FAA!) That also means the Hamilton Standard prop specs for MOI and beta are now set correctly and require no fudge to get the power curve right. The original military spec props were indeed 15' 2" even though the FAA now specifies 14' 2" max for any aircraft of this model flying today. That change was made because of the change in AVgas and lower MP requirements with todays fuels.

No more fudge... the aircraft config now reflects the correct specs on just about everything.

CHT now resopnse to cowl flaps correctly... if you dont open them under T/O and powered climb, you can overheat the engine... chug, chug.. sputter, sputter and if you leave them open at high altitude cruise, you cool things off too much.

Cheesy

Cheesy

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Reply #179 - Aug 6^th, 2008 at 11:49am

NickN Offline
Colonel
FSX runs fine... the problem
is you or your system

Posts: 6317

Anthony Vos is doing the repaint with modern 32bit reflective textures

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Reply #180 - Aug 6^th, 2008 at 3:32pm

Bob70 Offline
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Born To Fly
Phoenix Arizona , USA

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NickN wrote on Aug 6^th, 2008 at 11:49am:

Anthony Vos is doing the repaint with modern 32bit reflective textures

Hi Nick

Thats great news. I know you are very busy, but is there any tentative date for the release date yet?

Bob

Camelback Mountain....Looking north from Sky Harbor Int. KPHX Phoenix, Arizona USA

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Reply #181 - Aug 6^th, 2008 at 5:01pm

NickN Offline
Colonel
FSX runs fine... the problem
is you or your system

Posts: 6317

Bob

4 items holding up the works

1.
I wanted a repaint on it and that will take a bit of time. I dont know if Anthony will do a navy blue or upgrade the current paint scheme which by the way is correct too at this point but will talk with him about it soon. Since Anthony is helping the repaint will get done

2. In order to make her fly like the real deal it really requires the code available in Acceleration and that is what I coded for originally however I want to make sure those without Acceleration get a close rendering of the same flight ability. In order to do that I have to go back to the drawing board and code differently essentially making 2 versions of the same aircraft in configuration and letting the user install the correct version for their sim

3.
Although the gauge package selected works several of the gauges in that package were not accurate for this aircraft in readout and since the plane is being designed to fly like its real world counterpart it requires I XML code edit many of the gauges, edit the gauge bitmaps and add XML hidden gauges too in order to instruct the aircraft to respond right. Thats almost complete now and after that the final layout for the overhead will be completed

4.
GEX EU is in full swing again after we took a break from it so I am pressed for spare time

I cant give an ETA although the Acceleration version without the repaint with be ready for testing within 2 weeks at most. I would prefer to release as one package over releasing 2 versions and another repaint.

Just be awre this project is underway and it will get completed.. its not getting lost in the shuffle.

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Reply #182 - Aug 6^th, 2008 at 5:29pm

Bob70 Offline
Global Moderator
Born To Fly
Phoenix Arizona , USA

Gender:
Posts: 3038

NickN wrote on Aug 6^th, 2008 at 5:01pm:

Bob

4 items holding up the works

1.
I wanted a repaint on it and that will take a bit of time. I dont know if Anthony will do a navy blue or upgrade the current paint scheme which by the way is correct too at this point but will talk with him about it soon. Since Anthony is helping the repaint will get done

2. In order to make her fly like the real deal it really requires the code available in Acceleration and that is what I coded for originally however I want to make sure those without Acceleration get a close rendering of the same flight ability. In order to do that I have to go back to the drawing board and code differently essentially making 2 versions of the same aircraft in configuration and letting the user install the correct version for their sim

3.
Although the gauge package selected works several of the gauges in that package were not accurate for this aircraft in readout and since the plane is being designed to fly like its real world counterpart it requires I XML code edit many of the gauges, edit the gauge bitmaps and add XML hidden gauges too in order to instruct the aircraft to respond right. Thats almost complete now and after that the final layout for the overhead will be completed

4.
GEX EU is in full swing again after we took a break from it so I am pressed for spare time

I cant give an ETA although the Acceleration version without the repaint with be ready for testing within 2 weeks at most. I would prefer to release as one package over releasing 2 versions and another repaint.

Just be awre this project is underway and it will get completed.. its not getting lost in the shuffle.

Thanks for the update Nick. No sweat no hurry. My birthday is not till Sept 23rd. Wink

Wink

Grin

Bob

Camelback Mountain....Looking north from Sky Harbor Int. KPHX Phoenix, Arizona USA

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Reply #183 - Aug 6^th, 2008 at 5:43pm

NickN Offline
Colonel
FSX runs fine... the problem
is you or your system

Posts: 6317

LOL!

I would think it will be before then!!

When I said I had to go back to the drawing board for non-Acceleration that did not mean I have to start from scratch... just replace the Superchargers with turbo chargers which work differently so it will take a bit of time to program and test for closely running engine dynamics and similar aircraft response between Accel and non-accel

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