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I would like to ask a special favor.... (Read 14717 times)
Jun 18th, 2008 at 11:39pm

NickN   Offline
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...If someone who is versed in panel/ aircraft.cfg work would like to take on a little project, I have one for you.



Simviation has a freeware P5 available but it is for FS2002/04

FS2004/2002 Martin SP-5B Marlin located on this page:

http://simviation.com/fs2004vintage96.htm


Bob70 who also flew with this aircraft in the Navy found this model and it works in FSX

http://www.simviation.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1213055568


unfortunately the panel gauges will not work in FSX and the aircraft needs some FSX love to get it up to snuff..

1. Edit the provided panel and replace FS8 gauges with (correct as possible) FSX versions

2. Edit the sound config to alias to the DC3 with instructions on how to alias to another sound if the user so desires

3. Edit the aircraft.cfg to comply with FSX and change the FX calls for FSX FX files

4. Edit the aircraft.cfg for contact points so the bow spray and wake FX work correctly and in the right location on the aircraft in FSX

5. Edit the aircraft.cfg for proper engine idle and torque and if you are versed in flight dynamics, a bit of work in that area as well. Some FD work would really be great and especailly on the correct lift/drag and drag in water TO/LDG

It looks to me to be a few days work with flight testing. The glass, animations and props are all working fine. it just needs a little FSX love to give it a rebirth.


I would do this and post a FSX update to go with the aircraft however I am very tied up with GEXn EU right now. I would not mind having this plane in my personal hangar and I know old salts like Bob70 would like to have it functioning correctly in FSX too.  Phil Taylor is another who collects these vintage Navy boats and has expressed his desire to see this plane upgraded.

If someone here who thinks they can really make that plane shine in FSX would like to take this little project on, please post and let me know.


 
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Reply #1 - Jun 19th, 2008 at 4:25am

microlight   Offline
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Sorry, Nick - don't have FSX.

Good luck!

Wink
 

...
BAe ATP for FS9 now available! www.enigmasim.com
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Reply #2 - Jun 19th, 2008 at 9:32am

Brett_Henderson   Offline
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I'm heading out the door in a few hours...  weekend flight around Lake Michigan.. If this has not been addressed by the time I return, I'd be happy take it on..
 
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Reply #3 - Jun 19th, 2008 at 11:24am

NickN   Offline
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FSX runs fine... the problem
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Brett.. that would be wonderful. I do have this posted at AVSIM and thus far no takers

I can run some numbers on the aerodynamics and see how they stack up to the original config however I know there are give and take areas with FS which differ

Here are specs

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P5M_Marlin#Specifications_.28P5M-2.29



It would probably be nice to have some input from Bob70 about the aircraft and how it flew. Perhaps have him do test flights with her and let us know what he thinks to get her trimmed in on flight dynamics

I will post a PM to him pointing to this thread

EDIT: It looks to me like the aircraft model is the P5M-2G or 2S Marlin (note the tail design) which is a slightly different than the general P5M-2 but the specs are close enough to each other.

http://www.uscg.mil/history/WEBAIRCRAFT/AC_Martin_P5M.html

http://aeroweb.brooklyn.cuny.edu/specs/martin/p5m-2g.htm


images

http://www.coastcomp.com/av/pres/kistler/nmna_135533.htm

http://www.jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=6226480

http://www.jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=6226479&nseq=1

http://www.jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=441819&nseq=3

http://www.jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=5684765&nseq=2


A repaint with some really nice weatherd textures and some upgrades to match the images would be really cool but I know that would be a job and 1/2. It would be nice if someone else with paint experience would want to perhaps upgrade her exterior with nice high res additions and some weathering.

« Last Edit: Jun 19th, 2008 at 12:51pm by NickN »  
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Reply #4 - Jun 19th, 2008 at 12:39pm

Alrot   Ex Member
I Love Simviation.

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Nick , I didn't said anything ,because I'm not too good in aircraft.cfg in fact Is Brett who's making all my dynamics in my latest model..he's very good in this ..
in my earlier models before meet Brett ,my models, geometry , dynamics were exactly as the default models came ..only few changes in dynamics ..

You deserve all the help ,you been very nice with FSX users myself included..

Cheers

Alex
 
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Reply #5 - Jun 19th, 2008 at 12:50pm

NickN   Offline
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FSX runs fine... the problem
is you or your system

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Alejandro Rhodes wrote on Jun 19th, 2008 at 12:39pm:
Nick , I didn't said anything ,because I'm not too good in aircraft.cfg in fact Is Brett who's making all my dynamics in my latest model..he's very good in this ..
in my earlier models before meet Brett ,my models, geometry , dynamics were exactly as the default models came ..only few changes in dynamics ..

You deserve all the help ,you been very nice with FSX users myself included..

Cheers

Alex


no problem Alex!  Smiley


 
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Reply #6 - Jun 19th, 2008 at 1:25pm

merculiv   Offline
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I can probably mod some gauges from the grumman goose and take flight dynamics from that since it seems like a close match. And then tweak them from there maybe. Would be a good start? I can show you some screenshots afterwards. Smiley
 
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Reply #7 - Jun 19th, 2008 at 2:29pm

NickN   Offline
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FSX runs fine... the problem
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hmmmm

looking at a few numbers, the Goose would not represent this aircraft very well for flight dynamics due to the scale. Goose wing span is only 50ft compared to 117 and 1,406 sqft of surface compared to 375

This boat would not take off like the Goose in water... if memory serves me, and Bob would know better than me, most of the big boats require the pilot get the aircraft up on trim by forcing the stick forward a bit or they can not get airspeed however this hull is different than most bows I have seen and very unusual so it may cut the water much easier than most others.

I would need to research the plane and see if I can find any reports on flight dynamics and how it handled in TO.

Hey BOB!  when you read this.. how about a bit of a history lesson on this plane and how she handled?   Smiley

 
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Reply #8 - Jun 19th, 2008 at 2:34pm

merculiv   Offline
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I tried to match the gauges in the panel.cfg the best I could and I used the sound folder from the Grumman goose.  You can try this out for fun. Smiley 

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=B26XI4EP

The texturing resolution in the VC is a bit low. But let me know what you think. Victor

merculiv@gmail.com
 
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Reply #9 - Jun 19th, 2008 at 3:19pm

NickN   Offline
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FSX runs fine... the problem
is you or your system

Posts: 6317
*****
 
merculiv wrote on Jun 19th, 2008 at 2:34pm:
I tried to match the gauges in the panel.cfg the best I could and I used the sound folder from the Grumman goose.  You can try this out for fun. Smiley  

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=B26XI4EP

The texturing resolution in the VC is a bit low. But let me know what you think. Victor

merculiv@gmail.com



Wow!

thanks Victor!.. I will get a look at it as soon as I can..   I'm not at home right now

I will let you know how it looks and others can do the same.

 
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Reply #10 - Jun 19th, 2008 at 3:29pm

Bob70   Offline
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NickN wrote on Jun 19th, 2008 at 2:29pm:
hmmmm

looking at a few numbers, the Goose would not represent this aircraft very well for flight dynamics due to the scale. Goose wing span is only 50ft compared to 117 and 1,406 sqft of surface compared to 375

This boat would not take off like the Goose in water... if memory serves me, and Bob would know better than me, most of the big boats require the pilot get the aircraft up on trim by forcing the stick forward a bit or they can not get airspeed however this hull is different than most bows I have seen and very unusual so it may cut the water much easier than most others.

I would need to research the plane and see if I can find any reports on flight dynamics and how it handled in TO.

Hey BOB!  when you read this.. how about a bit of a history lesson on this plane and how she handled?  Smiley



Hi Nick

Happy to see this project taking off. Like I said I was not a pilot but part of the crew for awhile during my Navy days about fifty years ago. She was big and slow. Seems like it took forever to get airborne. You had to get her up on the step to get enough speed to lift off. Also on calm days in the early morning  when the water was like glass we had to use jato rocket assist to break the surface tension of the water on the aircraft otherwise we couldn't take off. It was said she would barely fly on one engine.  Grin  We never lost one I'm happy to say. If I think of anything else I'll let you know.  Looking forward to It. Would like to have  a livery in the Navys "Navy Blue"

Smiley Bob

PS. I remember at times when we didn't have jato we use to high speed taxi in big circles to get the water stirred up.

 

...
Camelback Mountain....Looking north from Sky Harbor Int.  KPHX Phoenix, Arizona  USA
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Reply #11 - Jun 19th, 2008 at 4:07pm

NickN   Offline
Colonel
FSX runs fine... the problem
is you or your system

Posts: 6317
*****
 
Bob70 wrote on Jun 19th, 2008 at 3:29pm:
NickN wrote on Jun 19th, 2008 at 2:29pm:
hmmmm

looking at a few numbers, the Goose would not represent this aircraft very well for flight dynamics due to the scale. Goose wing span is only 50ft compared to 117 and 1,406 sqft of surface compared to 375

This boat would not take off like the Goose in water... if memory serves me, and Bob would know better than me, most of the big boats require the pilot get the aircraft up on trim by forcing the stick forward a bit or they can not get airspeed however this hull is different than most bows I have seen and very unusual so it may cut the water much easier than most others.

I would need to research the plane and see if I can find any reports on flight dynamics and how it handled in TO.

Hey BOB!  when you read this.. how about a bit of a history lesson on this plane and how she handled?  Smiley



Hi Nick

Happy to see this project taking off. Like I said I was not a pilot but part of the crew for awhile during my Navy days about fifty years ago. She was big and slow. Seems like it took forever to get airborne. You had to get her up on the step to get enough speed to lift off. Also on calm days in the early morning  when the water was like glass we had to use jato rocket assist to break the surface tension of the water on the aircraft otherwise we couldn't take off. It was said she would barely fly on one engine.  Grin  We never lost one I'm happy to say. If I think of anything else I'll let you know.  Looking forward to It. Would like to have  a livery in the Navys "Navy Blue"

Smiley Bob

PS. I remember at times when we didn't have jato we use to high speed taxi in big circles to get the water stirred up.




This information is VERY COOL and exactly what I was looking for. I was not sure if you were in the cockpit or not.. you did say you flew 'with' them.. no matter!  What we need to trim it in is exactly what you provided and anything else you can think of.

Heck.. how often do you get someone who was in a vintage when they were not vintage and who knows how they flew??

LOL!

Keep posting anything you remember about her!

As for the paint.. it would be nice if someone who knows good technique could upgrade the textures. Perhaps if no one steps up I will make that one of my parts but I cant really put any dedicated work into her for at least a few weeks
 
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Reply #12 - Jun 19th, 2008 at 5:03pm

Brett_Henderson   Offline
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The Warrior I'm taking (the one I bought into), had to be pulled into the FBO to have the prop taken off and the hollow crankshaft inspected. I will go into its 100 hour inspection time limit on this flight. Since it won't used for instruction, that's OK.. except that DARN crankshaft has and Airworthiness Directive that HAD to be taken care of before taking it cross-country. Needless to say, I won't be leaving until early Friday.

Good thing is that I got to come back here and see the enthusiasm about this project. I'm itching to dive in right now, but I'm up to my web-page-ears in weather/flight planning  Cool

Weather permiting, I'llbe back by Monday, noonish, and will check in to see the progress.. Smiley
 
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Reply #13 - Jun 19th, 2008 at 10:25pm

NickN   Offline
Colonel
FSX runs fine... the problem
is you or your system

Posts: 6317
*****
 
merculiv wrote on Jun 19th, 2008 at 2:34pm:
I tried to match the gauges in the panel.cfg the best I could and I used the sound folder from the Grumman goose.  You can try this out for fun. Smiley  

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=B26XI4EP

The texturing resolution in the VC is a bit low. But let me know what you think. Victor

merculiv@gmail.com



Well, there are no gauges in the 2D panel so that needs to be fixed and you are right about the VC.. thats not what I was hoping for on the clarity.


The sound set is not too bad.. all that needed to happen there was a alias to the Goose and not the entire sound set included because that sort of doubles files on the drive, but I do like the sound set other than idle.. a bit too high of a pitch since the Goose engines are small.

Smiley



 
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Reply #14 - Jun 19th, 2008 at 11:42pm

NickN   Offline
Colonel
FSX runs fine... the problem
is you or your system

Posts: 6317
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Brett_Henderson wrote on Jun 19th, 2008 at 5:03pm:
The Warrior I'm taking (the one I bought into), had to be pulled into the FBO to have the prop taken off and the hollow crankshaft inspected. I will go into its 100 hour inspection time limit on this flight. Since it won't used for instruction, that's OK.. except that DARN crankshaft has and Airworthiness Directive that HAD to be taken care of before taking it cross-country. Needless to say, I won't be leaving until early Friday.

Good thing is that I got to come back here and see the enthusiasm about this project. I'm itching to dive in right now, but I'm up to my web-page-ears in weather/flight planning  Cool

Weather permiting, I'llbe back by Monday, noonish, and will check in to see the progress.. Smiley



Sounds good Brett

I will see if I can locate tech info on this boat...  If not I am not sure where we can get the correct info for the aircraft geometry section except from a publication like this

http://www.aviationbookcentre.com/__12_product_info3_asp2_5_prdID4_58365_usrID1_...'


The Oswald on those boats as I recall will be low.. and if I remember my E factor inviscid/viscous drag math on those old wing mounted engine aircraft one must subtract somewhere between 4 to 6% from solve 'E' due to prop down-wash. Cant remember exactly but I do remember the wing mounted engines cause a drop in eff. E is probably somewhere around 68-72 on that monster @ 1,406 ft² and 118ft span but according to what Bob reported I would not be surprised if it calc'd out to be lower than the space shuttle, like in the 55-65 range to take into account the sim fight model and how it tends to render a bit too much lift, torque and Pfactor with some planes. From what Bob says it drops quickly without both engines running, just like the shuttle without its 18-22 degree approach angle, but it does not weigh 215K lbs.


 
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