Nicely done. Like the format.

...any chance of indicating the total File Size in each download..?

Downloading Sim V's files doesn't ever indicate the total file size for some strange reason using the standard Windows downloader, so I had to cancel the download, part way through, for fear that it may exceed my Service Provider's total download allowance for the month... ...!

Paul.......!

That's a great idea... and well done.
Only criticism I have is: I was taught to retract flaps and then trim for Vy, as the nose is coming down anyway when you pull the flaps. Makes it real easy to establish Vy, and no surprises.

If you establish Vy and then retract flaps, you'll have to pick the nose up again, in most airplanes.

Not a big deal, either way is "correct", I guess... just a thought.

Again, I've probably described it wrong:
Brett is right- if you pull the flaps up at Vx and do nothing else, you'll sink some. But what I usually do is sort of mix it together; "flaps up/transition Vy" is sort of the same action for me.
The way it was explained to me is that it's good to do both: retract flaps and work with the pitch change to immediately transition to Vy.I have found that the plane will ask for "back trim" right away as you pull the flaps up, a moment before it starts sinking in any positive way; if you're working the pitch consciously at that moment, anticipating it, you'll get near Vy before you really sink much.

I've never noticed any undue loss of altitude doing it that way... but I have done it the other way more than once (as in going to put flaps down on downwind and realizing I never retracted them- LOL!!).

But unlike a go-around, where you may have full flaps down when you initiate the climb, we're talking about retracting flaps from 10 degrees to zero (short-field takeoff), which is not a dramatic change in most aircraft.  

PS- I also know the other flap-related error similar to what Brett described: accidentally did full retract from 30 degrees to 0 as I executed a go-around... for a second, I just sat there going "hmmm... full power; low airspeed, back pressure... but we're headed for the ground... duh? ".
Figured it out in time, and the instructor just laughed at me (it was a rental checkout in a K model 172 with that #@$^ flap toggle).  

I guess if you really need to do a short-field, like for real, climbing out of a hole so to speak, it would be wise to keep the flaps down for that steep climb path and not lift them until you have Vy or better.

There are many schools of thought about it: My DFE for my check ride once chided me for practicing short-field takeoffs at KTEB (my habit when I was alternating between that vast airport and little tree-lined N07)- he though it was foolish to get the plane in that attitude, vulnerable to turbulence, etc. unless absolutely necessary.
Yeah, I know... how do you prepare for the real deal if you don't practice?

But what does he know- he flies D-Falcons and junk like that.

I just got done reading the thread that this video was based on and rather than resurrecting that thread from the dead, I thought I would just post my piece here.

I don't know if this comes from my training being exclusively in Pipers or not, but the procedure that I learned for short and even soft field landings are a little different from the procedures discussed in this Sim Flight Training series.

First of all, the short field procedure here is the same that I learned up until rotation. I was taught to rotate at the normal rotation speed (50 to 55 KIAS in a PA28-161) and establish an attitude that would produce Vx (about 10-15 degrees) without staying in ground effect. Then, maintain Vx until clearing the 50 ft. obstacle. After clearing the obstacle, establish and climb out at Vy.

The procedure here is more similar to the soft field procedure that I learned except for a couple of key differences:
1) Hold full up elevator for the entire procedure to keep the weight off of the nose wheel and on the mains (that is until leveling off in ground effect), and
2) Keep the aircraft rolling while lining up on the runway to avoid getting stuck

I don't know if this difference is just because I learned in Pipers or if it's because the flight school that I learned through is crazy.

I really apologize if I have completely confused anyone, but I thought the differences between what I learned and what yall have been discussing were "puzzling" for lack of a better term.

Maybe I should just go back to my Piper corner and let all you Cessna fliers out there do whatever you want to.  

By all means, dig the threads up. I plan on bumping them all up soon, anyway. Kind of like a review, since all 7 are done.

Your question is kind of mentioned in that thread... Mainly the soft-field aspect of the short-field takeoff, as I've taught it. I'll quote myself, though Mobius has done a good job of explaining the theory. What we have to remember is that manufacturer ideas have lawsuits in mind. As I mentioned in this thread.. the Cessna POH goes as far as NOT suggesting even flap deployment.  

Quote:



And yes.. Warriors are a little different than Skyhawks... Actually quite a bit different. If you follow my quote in a Piper; it might get tense. You can get a Cessna up off the runway at Vx briskly and smoothly. A Piper needs a little more airspeed to jump up into ground-effect. I don't fully understand why, aerodynamically... but it's certainly a function of the low wings...and very probably a function of the extra dihedral.

When you try to ease a Piper into ground effect at Vx, it really drifts if there's cross-wind. If you try to jump it up into ground-effect at Vx (like you can a Cessna), it drifts AND wants to come back down a bit.

Remember when you were training, and possibly going back and forth between Warriors and Skyhawks ? Remember what happens when you try to land a Warrior like a Skyhawk ?  If you use as much positive pitch while flaring with a Piper.. you're gonna hit the runway, hard..  And conversely... if you try to land a Cessna as "flatly" as you do a Piper... you might bounce and float  

Anyway... we're stuck with a Skyhawk for Sim Training. There isn't a high quality, equally realistic Warrior out there... and using downloaded planes would just complicate things. I'd love to go back and forth.. and we will.. when it comes to more advance flying. I can't WAIT for the discussions when we're doing high-performance endorsements using  both the Mooney and the Maule  

Congrats to all on an outstanding thread. Very valuable to a novice like myself.