Im not quite sure what you are talking about, but yes, a wind will definately offset your plane, trying flying too a random VOR at a heading of 360, then setting a 90 degree crosswind, you will notice you need too point your plane slightly into the wind for compensating for the offset.

BFMF wrote on Jan 21^st, 2008 at 4:58pm:


Correct. Think of the wind as the entire atmosphere moving sideways along the surface of the earth. If you are on the ground, you feel the atmosphere moving by you as wind. But, if you are in the air, you simply move with the atmosphere as it slides across the ground. Discounting instabilities in the atmosphere (gusts, wind shear, thermals, etc.), the airplane flys exactly the same in calm winds as it does in a 50 mph wind because it is moving with the airmass.

The path that you are taking through the airmass is defined by heading (where the nose of the airplane is pointing) and true airspeed. If the airmass is moving in relation to the surface of the earth ("wind"), then you are traveling with it. As I pointed out before, this doesn't change the way the plane flys, but what it does is changes the path it is taking along the ground. If you were to make an arrow showing your path through the airmass (heading & TAS) and add to it an arrow showing the movement of the airmass across the ground (wind) then the resulting arrow would give you the airplane's actual path over the ground. If you've ever used a manual E6B this is exactly what you are doing when you use the wind face. The direction of your path along the ground is your track and the speed at which you move along the ground is your ground speed.

So, if you are flying with a 20 knot tailwind, the aircraft would handle exactly the same as it would in calm winds, but your ground speed would be 20 knots faster than your true airspeed.

If you are flying with a 20 knot cross wind from left to right, the aircraft would handle exactly the same, but your track would be a few degrees to the right of its heading.

The challenge comes when you have to take the airplane which is moving with the airmass, and land it on a runway which is not. You can see now the reason pilot's always try to land into the wind. If you touch down at 55 knots true airspeed into a 10 knot headwind, then the aircraft is actually only moving forward at 45 knots in relation to the runway. And the tricky part is if you have a 10 knot crosswind, then the plane is trying to move sideways in relation to the runway at 10 knots. One of the harder parts of getting your pilot certificate is to learn how to  deal with crosswind landings.

The "weathercocking" on the ground is due to the main wheels providing a pivot point.
The aft part of the fuselage is like a lever, the mains are the fulcrum, and the wind is the hand pushing on the lever.

As Splinter points out, a plane in the air is not being "hit" by wind all- it's moving with the wind, even if it's not going in the same direction.
Think of a goldfish swimming in a bowl which is being carried. He might note his sideways track relative to the ground he can see below his bowl, and if he's swimming opposite the direction his bowl is being carried he will see he's moving slower along the ground,but his other senses notice only the flow of water along his nose.

So what we call "wind" is really just the effect of being hit by that moving mass of air when we are in contact with the ground... a hot air balloon's occupants might have to hold onto their hats in a strong breeze before launch, but as soon as the wind is allowed to carry the balloon away, they could light a candle up there and it will stay lit, even in high winds... there's no perception of wind when you are drifting with the moving air.

An airplane might get pushed a bit briefly if it enters a region where the wind is flowing differently, but it passes quickly.

Also, bear in mind that MSFS does a bad job modeling the effects of wind on planes on the ground- for example, in FS9 tricycle-gear planes often weathercock, but this is really not the case in real life, as the CG of the plane is forward of the mains. Part of the reason nosewheels were first put on planes, as taildraggers will definitely weathercock.

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I'll address this as though it were real flying. It's that state of mind that makes MSF such a valuable training aid, and makes it so much fun..

You kind of answered you first question when asking it. If you see something out on the horizon, and can sense that you're moving laterally.. you simply change your heading so that it becomes a stationary target. This is especially handy when departing... it can keep you from drifting off runway center-line..

As for correcting for the wind in flight.. you just fly a heading that compensates for the wind. Go check out the 'Sim Flight Training' in this section of the forum. We discussed it in depth.. especially the flight planning aspects. Trying to hold an aileron or rudder correction will just keep you in a constant turn.. when all you want to do is fly the adjusted heading.

Landing in a cross-wind is the first, serious challenge a new pilot faces. Wind from the right or left doesn't matter (and since all planes should be using the same runway, so they don't  fly into each other, you don't really get to pick and choose). You'll always be landing heading into the wind a bit ... to keep from drifting off of runway center-line..(it's called a crab angle, because from the ground it looks like you're moving sideways). Actual landing technique is a personal preference deal. Some people like to hold the crab angle almost all the way to the ground, and then use just the rudder at the last second to bring the plane into alignment with the runway. Others like to use the classic cross-controlled method. Use ailerons to bank the plane into the crosswind, and use opposite rudder to keep the nose pointed down the runway. I prefer this method because some passengers get squeemish when your flying the plane "sideways" down to the runway...AND..  either method will require some cross-controlling, and I think it's best to have a head start. The rule of thumb for landing under any condition, is to use ailerons to keep the plane itself on runway center-line and use rudder to keep the nose pointing straight down the runway.

And yes.. each plane has limits for the crosswind component it can be landed in safely. I think the it's 15 knots for a C172 (I've landed a C172 in a 25 knot crosswind.. I was sighting down the runway out of the side window  

To tack on to what Brett has already said, the Maximum Demonstrated Crosswind is required by regulation (FAR 23.1585.a.2) to be defined for small aircraft (normal, utility, aerobatic, and commuter catagory). For the Cessna 172 it is usually 15 knots. BUT the important thing to note is that this value is not a limitation like red-line on the airspeed indicator, it is an operating procedure. It falls into the same category as the yellow-arc on the airspeed indicator. It is recommended that you fly below the yellow-arc in turbulent air, but not required. Same thing here, it is recommended that you not land with a faster crosswind than the maximum demonstrated, but not required. This is why it is perfectly legal for Brett to land in a 25 knot crosswind in a 172. That being said, if you were not highly experienced in crosswind landings and had an accident, the FAA would fault you as the pilot for operating outside of the manufacturer's recommendations. Now, if you are renting from a flight school, they may have their own limitations on crosswinds (and often do) so that you would be violating the flight school's rules if you landed above those values.

thank you again

I will go and practice all this and report back!
thanks fellows
volunteer

Hmmm.. I've found that MSFS (especially FSX), does a pretty good job of representing crosswinds... both on the ground and in the air. Are you using yoke & pedals, or a twisting joystick ?  I'll agree that strong crosswinds are nearly impossible to manage realistically, without rudder pedals.

I'll leave X-wind taxiing for another discussion. When taking off in a crosswind, first thing you do is add 100% aileron into the wind, and maintain directional control (and center-line) with the rudder.. Then, as airpseed comes up, start backing off the ailerons as you "feel" the wings coming under your control. Ideally, you want to keep them level, but banked slightly into the wind is better than the alternative    .. as that's when a gust can turn you upside down. As soon as the main gear lift, go to completely neutral rudder, and the aileron correction you're currently holding, "should" transition you into a natural crab-angle for the climb out... and with practice, it will.

I've never found the rudder in Microsoft's flight sims to be quite right. But I am also using the throttle-mounted rocker. Though I haven't flow an Microsoft sim with them, I have flow the Elite sim and other FTDs with actual rudder pedals and the feeling is much more realistic. I would assume that Microsoft's flight sim's rudder would feel a lot more realistic if you were to have actual rudder pedals for it too. That being said, I haven't seen too many sims that will respond correctly to full rudder deflection, especially when it is abrupt. Most sims don't bother to properly model high-beta cases as they are not usually seen in normal operations.

Back to technique, I use the same as Brett's mentioned here. It is especially important to fly this way in a taildragger where aircraft control while taxiing is more important. The way I see it in my head is smoothly transitioning from taxiing the airplane (full aileron into the wind) to flying the airplane (aileron to maintain proper wing bank into the wind). Proper wing-low crosswind technique is critical in taildraggers because of the instability in taxi. It is actually fairly common to takeoff and land on 1 wheel in stronger crosswinds (this is not uncommon in Cessna's either, but I think many pilots are uncomfortable doing it)

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If you don't land on one wheel at a time, in a C172, in a good crosswind....  you're pushing your luck with the, "kick the tail out at the last second", method  ... and it will bite you hard one day 

The natural reflex to carry a little more airspeed into a x-wind landing sharpens those teeth waiting to bite you. It will increase the likelyhood of floating.. which is no big deal if you're already crossed up a little.. but if you start floating just about the time that you kick the tail out, you'll have to cross up in a hurry. I like to already have a feel for the cross-up. My trick is to block out and ignore the bank angle... get on the rudder early and you'll have no choice but to cross control to hold center-line. Plus.. slipping a little in that manner helps bleed off the airspeed.

Either way, a 172 seems to spend gobs of time in ground-effect. Along those lines, it's more docile than most trainers.. gives you plenty of time adjust... or even go around. I'll bet it's a little different in a  Cub ?

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Next time you take a Skyhawk up... try to get a no-fllaps landing in...

"Jeez-o-Pete, is this thing EVER gonna stop flying ?"

And then jump right into a nose-heavy, high wing-loaded Mooney or Saratoga...

"What happened to the wings ?"