Simviation Forum - Cross winds on FSX flying

Reply #15 - Jan 26^th, 2008 at 3:23pm

Splinter562 Offline
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I've never found the rudder in Microsoft's flight sims to be quite right. But I am also using the throttle-mounted rocker. Though I haven't flow an Microsoft sim with them, I have flow the Elite sim and other FTDs with actual rudder pedals and the feeling is much more realistic. I would assume that Microsoft's flight sim's rudder would feel a lot more realistic if you were to have actual rudder pedals for it too. That being said, I haven't seen too many sims that will respond correctly to full rudder deflection, especially when it is abrupt. Most sims don't bother to properly model high-beta cases as they are not usually seen in normal operations.

Back to technique, I use the same as Brett's mentioned here. It is especially important to fly this way in a taildragger where aircraft control while taxiing is more important. The way I see it in my head is smoothly transitioning from taxiing the airplane (full aileron into the wind) to flying the airplane (aileron to maintain proper wing bank into the wind). Proper wing-low crosswind technique is critical in taildraggers because of the instability in taxi. It is actually fairly common to takeoff and land on 1 wheel in stronger crosswinds (this is not uncommon in Cessna's either, but I think many pilots are uncomfortable doing it)

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Reply #16 - Jan 26^th, 2008 at 5:32pm

Brett_Henderson Offline
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Quote:

I have a "twist" type joystick and, in the interest of partiality, I understand that the degree of precision with which you can make control inputs relies on the quality of the hardware.
With any control system though, if you have full rudder deflection in and still can't maintain runway centerline (in medium intensity winds), that is a programming flaw!

Trust me... I started with a twisting joystick. It's a proportional thing. On my best days using a twisting rudder, it was the equivalent of violently stomping the pedals. And I think this is where the flaws in the MSFS rudder flight-model are exposed. Abrupt applications are not proportional, but subtle increases are... ESPECIALLY when you go back and forth (like you almost have to with a twisting rudder). So.. if you're doing it properly, everything is OK... But when you have to start making corrections, back and forth, the MSFS model is exposed.

If you start a x-wind take-off roll with just a touch of rudder, and then add more rudder smoothly, as needed.. all goes well. Add too much rudder too soon, and then start correcting your corrections, and even a set of pedals will leave you scratching your head. With the pedals, you have the luxury of also using very subtle differential braking.. so you can get yourself out of the oscillations that eventually render the rudder useless.. as you drift off into the grass Shocked

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Reply #17 - Jan 26^th, 2008 at 5:36pm

Brett_Henderson Offline
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It is actually fairly common to takeoff and land on 1 wheel in stronger crosswinds (this is not uncommon in Cessna's either, but I think many pilots are uncomfortable doing it)

If you don't land on one wheel at a time, in a C172, in a good crosswind.... you're pushing your luck with the, "kick the tail out at the last second", method Cool

... and it will bite you hard one day Wink

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Reply #18 - Jan 27^th, 2008 at 10:41am

beaky Offline
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Brett_Henderson wrote on Jan 26^th, 2008 at 5:36pm:

Quote:

It is actually fairly common to takeoff and land on 1 wheel in stronger crosswinds (this is not uncommon in Cessna's either, but I think many pilots are uncomfortable doing it)

If you don't land on one wheel at a time, in a C172, in a good crosswind.... you're pushing your luck with the, "kick the tail out at the last second", method Cool

... and it will bite you hard one day Wink

'Tis true... I often crab all the way to the threshold (getting "crossed up" at low airspeed and low altitude bothers me usually), but it's smart not to wait too long before getting lined up and putting a wing down.
Cessna gear legs can easily take the side-loading, but the rebound will leave you in a little "situation"... Cheesy

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Reply #19 - Jan 27^th, 2008 at 1:10pm

Brett_Henderson Offline
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The natural reflex to carry a little more airspeed into a x-wind landing sharpens those teeth waiting to bite you. It will increase the likelyhood of floating.. which is no big deal if you're already crossed up a little.. but if you start floating just about the time that you kick the tail out, you'll have to cross up in a hurry. I like to already have a feel for the cross-up. My trick is to block out and ignore the bank angle... get on the rudder early and you'll have no choice but to cross control to hold center-line. Plus.. slipping a little in that manner helps bleed off the airspeed.

Either way, a 172 seems to spend gobs of time in ground-effect. Along those lines, it's more docile than most trainers.. gives you plenty of time adjust... or even go around. I'll bet it's a little different in a Cub ?

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Reply #20 - Jan 27^th, 2008 at 11:28pm

beaky Offline
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Brett_Henderson wrote on Jan 27^th, 2008 at 1:10pm:

I'll bet it's a little different in a Cub ?

Yeah, like the Champ, its high drag and less-efficient wing will let gravity pull it out of ground effect sooner, even if the Skyhawk is starting the flare at a Cub-like speed.

But there's still plenty of time to fix things... Cheesy

And that extra air time in a 172 is not always a good thing. More than once I've had to practically start over with my alignment in a Skyhawk after a surge of wind or my own reckless airspeed keeps it airborne too long in a crosswind. Shocked

I'm sure you could bring a Cub in so hot that it will float way more than you'd like... certainly enough to start drifting in a crosswind.
I was lucky there was almost no wind Saturday, but I didn't let it float in any case. I had the little Cub-landing "secret" revealed to me right away... I'll cover that in my (eventual) write-up.

But even 150s can bring woe and disaster if you get too focused on that "extra airspeed for a crosswind" thing- directional control is all that really matters, so airspeed should be enough to maintain that, and no more... you're trying to put it on the ground, after all. Grin

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Reply #21 - Jan 28^th, 2008 at 7:03am

Brett_Henderson Offline
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Quote:

And that extra air time in a 172 is not always a good thing. More than once I've had to practically start over with my alignment in a Skyhawk after a surge of wind or my own reckless airspeed keeps it airborne too long in a crosswind.

Next time you take a Skyhawk up... try to get a no-fllaps landing in...

"Jeez-o-Pete, is this thing EVER gonna stop flying ?"

And then jump right into a nose-heavy, high wing-loaded Mooney or Saratoga...

"What happened to the wings ?" Cheesy

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