Simviation Forum - Slick tyres return to F1

Nov 21^st, 2007 at 12:15pm

CharlottesDad Ex Member

But only for a test at Jerez...

Slicks back to F1

Nonetheless, a step in the right direction

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Reply #1 - Nov 21^st, 2007 at 12:21pm

eno Offline
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What's the betting that in 2009, when they may be reintroduced ...... the power and size of engines will be drastically reduced to compensate for the extra grip.

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Reply #2 - Nov 21^st, 2007 at 12:26pm

CharlottesDad Ex Member

eno wrote on Nov 21^st, 2007 at 12:21pm:

What's the betting that in 2009, when they may be reintroduced ...... the power and size of engines will be drastically reduced to compensate for the extra grip.

Possibly... I think they'll reduce wing area to compensate. Either way something will give, Bernie has always wanted to slow them down one way or another Tongue

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Reply #3 - Nov 21^st, 2007 at 1:47pm

Craig. Offline
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I not long ago posted what would be happening with F1 for the next few years. Wink

Slicks have been a quiet point lately but were planned for 2009 a while back.
Engines are not going to change for the next 10 years. We will have V8's with 19,000rpm for that foreseeable time period. The only change is the renewable energy system thats being designed.

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Reply #4 - Dec 4^th, 2007 at 9:38am

Craig. Offline
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Slicks back in F1?
well if this is anything to go by I doubt the safety bunch will agree.

1 Jenson Button Honda RA107 1:19.155 0
2 Kimi Räikkönen Ferrari F2007 1:20.501 + 1.346 0
3 Pedro de la Rosa McLaren MP4-22 1:20.569 + 1.414 0
4 Sebastien Bourdais Toro Rosso STR2 1:20.615 + 1.460 0
5 Mark Webber Red Bull Racing RB3 1:20.682 + 1.527 0
6 Nick Heidfeld BMW Sauber F1.07 1:21.000 + 1.845 0
7 Sebastian Vettel Toro Rosso STR2 1:21.050 + 1.895 0
8 James Rossiter Super Aguri F1 SA07 1:21.304 + 2.149 0
9 Timo Glock Toyota TF107 1:21.336 + 2.181 0
10 Giancarlo Fisichella Force India F8-VII 1:21.424 + 2.269 0
11 Marc Gene Ferrari F2007 1:21.432 + 2.277 0
12 Mike Conway Super Aguri F1 SA07 1:21.539 + 2.384 0
13 Nico Hulkenberg Williams FW29 1:21.551 + 2.396 0
14 Franck Montagny Force India F8-VII 1:21.559 + 2.404 0
15 Nelson Piquet Jr. Renault R27 1:21.592 + 2.437 0
16 Gary Paffett McLaren MP4-22 1:21.953 + 2.798 0
17 Kamui Kobayashi Toyota TF107 1:22.936 + 3.781 0
18 Kazuki Nakajima Williams FW29 1:23.480 + 4.325 0
19 Javier Villa BMW Sauber F1.07 1:23.503 + 4.348 0

Jensons lap was done on slicks and is over 1.3 seconds quicker than the ferrari. Considering the Honda is almost a second slower in general lap times, and was over 2 seconds slower at the last test. I have a feeling the top names when they run them later this week, could be closing in on the Jerez lap record set in 2004. Shocked

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Reply #5 - Dec 4^th, 2007 at 2:03pm

CharlottesDad Ex Member

Interesting Craig. Do you know if the slicks are the same size (width) as the grooves?
I presume Jenson was the only slick runner...

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Reply #6 - Dec 4^th, 2007 at 6:16pm

Craig. Offline
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Hi mate, those were mid day times. Few more went out on the slicks in the afternoon, still fastest of the tyres, but the gap wasn't as big.
http://www.itv-f1.com/Popups/Photo.aspx?IM_ID=45655
They appear the same size, and look really odd. Shocked

An interesting bit from today, a super aguri driver (i'll get it later with full link) did a test with 2009 regulation downforce on the groove tyres and has said the car is undriveable. He then used the slicks and said it's still bad, but not quite so bad.

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Reply #7 - Dec 4^th, 2007 at 6:21pm

Craig. Offline
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Day one test times, PDR was the fastest of the current tyres.

1. Heidfeld BMW-Sauber (B) 1:19.042 73 (S)
2. Button Honda (B) 1:19.155 65 (S)
3. de la Rosa McLaren-Mercedes (B) 1:19.712 48
4. Raikkonen Ferrari (B) 1:20.083 73
5. Piquet Renault (B) 1:20.366 66
6. Bourdais Toro Rosso-Ferrari (B) 1:20.615 97
7. Paffett McLaren-Mercedes (B) 1:20.638 50
8. Webber Red Bull-Renault (B) 1:20.682 65
9. Gene Ferrari (B) 1:20.832 67
10. Conway Super Aguri-Honda (B) 1:20.927 87
11. Vettel Toro Rosso-Ferrari (B) 1:21.086 45
12. Rossiter Super Aguri-Honda (B) 1:21.246 71 (S)
13. Glock Toyota (B) 1:21.336 69
14. Fisichella Force India-Ferrari (B) 1:21.424 41 (S)
15. Hulkenberg Williams-Toyota (B) 1:21.556 28
16. Montagny Force India-Ferrari (B) 1:21.559 65
17. Nakajima Williams-Toyota (B) 1:21.586 33
18. Asmer BMW-Sauber (B) 1:21.962 57
19. Kobayashi Toyota (B) 1:22.186 111
20. Villa BMW-Sauber (B) 1:23.583 53

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/64268
the link covers the day with comments on the slicks.

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Reply #8 - Dec 5^th, 2007 at 5:51am

expat Offline
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Craig. wrote on Dec 4^th, 2007 at 6:16pm:

They appear the same size, and look really odd. Shocked

No, no, no, Craig, that is how an F1 should look, they looked odd the day slicks where banned Cheesy

One question though. Slickes where banned in an effort to slow the cars down. That has been clawed back by the teams over the years with varoius bits of technology (whether it was designed or acquired by them or not as the case may be Wink

) What is the idea of bringing slicks back?

Matt

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Reply #9 - Dec 5^th, 2007 at 6:08am

CharlottesDad Ex Member

Slick tyres provide the most amount of mechanical grip. When the grooves were introduced the teams soon made up for the loss of grip, as you said Matt, with various aero devices thus increasing the amount of downforce to compensate. This in turn increased the amount of "dirty air" (or wake turbulence as we know it Cheesy

) behind the car, making close racing virtually impossible (unless you're Lewis....).
The return to slicks, with a decrease in Aerodynamic grip will, in theory, lead to more overtaking, more exciting racing and more people watching F1.

Which in turn equals more revenue for Bernie... Tongue

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Reply #10 - Dec 5^th, 2007 at 6:31am

expat Offline
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Quote:

Slick tyres provide the most amount of mechanical grip. When the grooves were introduced the teams soon made up for the loss of grip, as you said Matt, with various aero devices thus increasing the amount of downforce to compensate. This in turn increased the amount of "dirty air" (or wake turbulence as we know it Cheesy

) behind the car, making close racing virtually impossible (unless you're Lewis....).
The return to slicks, with a decrease in Aerodynamic grip will, in theory, lead to more overtaking, more exciting racing and more people watching F1.

Which in turn equals more revenue for Bernie... Tongue

But at the end of the day, it will be another to or three season fiddle with the regs by the FIA until they come up with another bright idea. You want overtaking and close racing then the only answer is the removal of all wings and the cars aerodynamics designed to produce a smooth-ish out flow for the car behind. Hardly the correct course of action. No matter what the FIA does, the teams will have caught up by the next season and a half........and Bernie will have made another $Zillion

Matt

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B1 Boeing 737-800 and Dash8 Q-400

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Reply #11 - Dec 5^th, 2007 at 10:50am

Craig. Offline
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the idea is by 2010 that there will be a freeze on design for a certain time. That has begun with the engine freeze.

Take this for what you will and it was translated from dutch into english so i'll leave you to interpret, but could this mean there are rumors of Mclaren offering Fred a 1 year contract?

The Spanish press communicates that Fernando Alonso new one year old has got contract offered surprisingly enough of McLaren. The Spaniard has reacted then with a list of wishes such as themselves stipulates of the race strategy.

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Reply #12 - Dec 5^th, 2007 at 11:42am

CharlottesDad Ex Member

McLaren have denied all kowledge of Alonso returning.
Apparenty, according to other reports, he's demanded different race stategy to Lewis, which to all intents and purposes would be two teams within one.
Not going to happen.

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Reply #13 - Dec 5^th, 2007 at 12:15pm

Craig. Offline
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How so?
Most teams run split strategy, Honda with Ross brawn will now run the adaptable strategy. Mclaren run a very strange strategy in that, the fastest qualifier in session 2 gets the choice of the best strategy. Thats not really fair and equal, plus it doesn't exactly allow wiggle room if something goes wrong.

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Reply #14 - Dec 5^th, 2007 at 2:52pm

CharlottesDad Ex Member

Maybe I interpreted it wrong. Tongue

The way I read it was that FA and Lewis would not share data etc.

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Reply #15 - Dec 5^th, 2007 at 2:58pm

Craig. Offline
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Thats a differant problem, last season for the first half of the season Fernando gave his car setup data to Lewis, gear ratios, wing angles, camber and balance for instance. Then starting around silverstone he stopped giving him the data. It's up for interpretation as to how badly it effected him, but Silverstone for example wasn't a good race as weren't a few others.

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Reply #16 - Dec 7^th, 2007 at 5:50pm

Craig. Offline
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well an interesting day in jerez.
Final times.

1 Sebastian Vettel Toro Rosso STR2 1:18.213 100
2 Robert Kubica BMW Sauber F1.07 1:18.410 + 0.197 119
3 Nico Rosberg Williams FW29 1:18.796 + 0.583 97
4 Michael Schumacher Ferrari F2007 1:19.136 + 0.923 58
5 Kazuki Nakajima Williams FW29 1:19.611 + 1.398 76
6 Timo Glock Toyota TF107 1:19.961 + 1.748 59
7 Felipe Massa Ferrari F2007 1:20.000 + 1.787 45
8 Sebastien Bourdais Toro Rosso STR2 1:20.033 + 1.820 87
9 Jarno Trulli Toyota TF107 1:20.229 + 2.016 69
10 David Coulthard Red Bull Racing RB3 1:20.657 + 2.444 72
11 Anthony Davidson Honda RA107 1:20.821 + 2.608 102
12 Takuma Sato Super Aguri F1 SA07 1:21.092 + 2.879 84
13 Marko Asmer BMW Sauber F1.07 1:21.333 + 3.120 80
14 Giedo van der Garde Force India F8-VII 1:22.321 + 4.108 81
15 Roldan Rodriguez Force India F8-VII 1:22.508 + 4.295 82

Report from the day.

Sebastian Vettel brought Formula One action in 2007 to a close with the fastest time on the final day of testing at Jerez in Spain.

The Scuderia Toro Rosso driver completed 100 laps to set his best time of 1:18.213 with slick tyres and 2008 levels of downforce, to edge out BMW Sauber's Robert Kubica by two tenths of a second.

Although Nico Rosberg, also on slicks, ended up third quickest despite a spectacular engine blow-up in the afternoon, a lot of eyebrows were raised when Michael Schumacher set the fourth quickest time running slick tyres but with 2009 levels of downforce.

A lot of drivers have struggled to get speed out of the estimated 30 percent cut in downforce levels experienced this week but, despite a spin at Turn Two early in the day, Schumacher still managed to set a time less than one second off Vettel's best.

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