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No more traction control (Read 1865 times)
Nov 6
th
, 2007 at 8:46am
expat
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Michael Schumacher will be testing for Ferrari due to his experience of driving non traction control in F1.
Shumacher and TC
However, as stated in the article, "F1 begins a new era without traction control and other driver aids", does anyone know what the other banned "driver aids" are? Fingers crossed it is flappy paddle gearboxes, but I am not holding my breath on that one.
Matt
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Reply #1 -
Nov 6
th
, 2007 at 11:23am
eno
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Flappy paddle is here to stay ....... its safer.
I think quite a lot of the electronic driver aids are going..... not checked yet so can't say which ..... though one of our more enthusiastic F1 fans will probably be able to list the lot.
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Reply #2 -
Nov 6
th
, 2007 at 11:57am
expat
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eno wrote
on Nov 6
th
, 2007 at 11:23am:
Flappy paddle is here to stay ....... its safer.
No, it just makes it easier to drive. If the driver had to decide when he was going to change gear it would make overtaking (and that is why we watch) a thing of skill and judgment and not a computer controlled equation.
However, how long before the teams come up with something that beats TC. Rather than engaging when the wheels are about to spin or do spin what about limiting the RPM at a certain point in a gear because you know that the wheels will spin for example.
Matt
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Reply #3 -
Nov 7
th
, 2007 at 4:42pm
CharlottesDad
Ex Member
TC can kick in at low revs too, for instance when in a slide out of a corner and works under braking as well.
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Reply #4 -
Nov 7
th
, 2007 at 4:57pm
C
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I reckon it'd be fun to issue all of the teams with a single chassis...
...a race with 22 identical Lotus 49s would seperate the men from the boys!
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Reply #5 -
Nov 8
th
, 2007 at 2:46am
Ashar
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I don't know jack about F1 cars, but nothing replaces the good old clutch for me
Blabbing Away at SimV Since June 8, 2004
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Reply #6 -
Nov 8
th
, 2007 at 5:00am
expat
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Ashar wrote
on Nov 8
th
, 2007 at 2:46am:
I don't know jack about F1 cars, but nothing replaces the good old clutch for me
Now that is what is missing, three peddles and a gear stick. That would separate the Michael Schumacher's from the Taki Inoue's.
Matt
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Reply #7 -
Nov 8
th
, 2007 at 5:09am
C
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expat wrote
on Nov 8
th
, 2007 at 5:00am:
Ashar wrote
on Nov 8
th
, 2007 at 2:46am:
I don't know jack about F1 cars, but nothing replaces the good old clutch for me
Now that is what is missing, three peddles and a gear stick. That would separate the Michael Schumacher's from the Taki Inoue's.
Matt
They wouldn't be able to fit in three pedals and a gear stick nowadays...
...or a normal shaped driver...
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Reply #8 -
Nov 8
th
, 2007 at 7:13am
Craig.
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Smiling as I return to see this. Although what does that say of the current driver line up? We need a retired guy to test this as the others dont have the experience. I knew this would happen the second he drove the car at Fiorano.
As for clutches and gear boxes,it is a proven safety fact now that the paddles are safer in the current climate of motor racing. If the cars were slower then theres no reason why the old H pattern box couldn't be brought back.
I see michael back and racing within a season or two, he made the fatal mistake of driving the car again
The loss of traction control is nothing major, both ferrari and Renault will have to adjust their cars a little balance wise on braking because of how they used their TC systems, Mclaren are perhaps going to have the biggest challenge on acceleration because their car is more front biased in terms of weight.
«
Last Edit: Nov 8
th
, 2007 at 2:45pm by Craig.
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Reply #9 -
Nov 8
th
, 2007 at 7:27pm
Craig.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRzbsI-1-SY
I thought this video works wellb for the topic and subject. A v10 engined F1 car, lapping a track with a couple of slow tight corners and no traction control. I dont really see a big differance to what we have now, with the V8's it'll probably be even less. The only minor differances were the slightly slower imputs on the throttle and the upshifts out of the slow corners being rather quick to keep the rears from spinning between 1st and 3rd gear. No powerslides that I've heard some people talk of.
As a side note in response to ex-pats question, as far as I can tell the only other major change is the standard ECU (made by Mclaren I might note) the idea being people cant hide any sort of engine management systems that could replicate TC (we have Bennaton to thank for this one) and so the FIA can monitor all the teams with regards to Launch control and various other braking stability programs that might be hidden in there to aid with the loss of TC.
In the future I believe its been introduced or being introduced that cars will not be allowed any added winglets/bargeboards or additional aerodynamic devices on the cars (see Ferrari/toyota Wheel hubs)
The front and rear wings will be made thinner and I believe it was said flatter however they will be made wider, the driver will be able to adjust the angle of the front wing upto 6 degrees from the cockpit, however only twice a lap (see standard ECU for how FIA will keep note) The rear wings width will decrease by 25cm down to 75 but will increase in height from 80 to 95cm
The rear diffuser will start from the rear axel instead of the current position of the front end of the rear wheels, but it can be raised to over 17cm's instead of the current 12.5cm.
I've just double checked this and these are the working groups proposals for 2009 which have in principle been accepted by the FIA. The result is 50% less downforce over the 2006 cars, and a 25% loss when following a car closely over the current 45% that is currently lost.
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Reply #10 -
Nov 9
th
, 2007 at 1:31pm
CharlottesDad
Ex Member
Craig. wrote
on Nov 8
th
, 2007 at 7:27pm:
... the driver will be able to adjust the angle of the front wing upto 6 degrees from the cockpit, however only twice a lap....
That will be interesting, however twice a lap should be more than enough anyway, take Silverstone as an example, I'd guess the only times you'd need to change the front wing angle would be along the Hangar Straight (less downforce) and maybe exiting Luffield on to the pit straight, same again.
At Monaco, up the hill to Casino Square and in the tunnel would be the only realistic places too.
On the flip side, at Monza it would be more downforce, maybe at the Lesmos and Curva Parabolica.
I'm beginning to like the idea...
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Reply #11 -
Nov 9
th
, 2007 at 1:44pm
Craig.
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Quote:
Craig. wrote
on Nov 8
th
, 2007 at 7:27pm:
... the driver will be able to adjust the angle of the front wing upto 6 degrees from the cockpit, however only twice a lap....
That will be interesting, however twice a lap should be more than enough anyway, take Silverstone as an example, I'd guess the only times you'd need to change the front wing angle would be along the Hangar Straight (less downforce) and maybe exiting Luffield on to the pit straight, same again.
At Monaco, up the hill to Casino Square and in the tunnel would be the only realistic places too.
On the flip side, at Monza it would be more downforce, maybe at the Lesmos and Curva Parabolica.
I'm beginning to like the idea...
The problem being with only being able to adjust it twice you cant pick two places to adjust it. Using the Silverstone example, if the driver adjusts the wing for hangar straight then he would need to add more wing for the luffield complex, there are the two uses for the lap used up.
Much like yourself I like the ideas on the table, but the wing adjustment I could only ever see being used in a simmilar fashion to the power boost button in champ car. Reduce the angle at the start of a straight for the pass then as you are alongside or just past, you set it back to the needed angle for the next corner.
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Reply #12 -
Nov 13
th
, 2007 at 7:53am
Craig.
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Looks like Schumi was never away after the lunch break.
Top 11 (laatste update: 13:38)
Coureur Team Chassis Laptime Verschil Laps
1 Pedro de la Rosa McLaren MP4-22 1:23.119 26
2 Michael Schumacher Ferrari F2007 1:23.164 + 0.045 22
3 Heikki Kovalainen Renault R27 1:23.691 + 0.572 35
4 Gary Paffett McLaren MP4-22 1:23.791 + 0.672 17
5 Luca Badoer Ferrari F2007 1:23.879 + 0.760 36
6 Franck Montagny Toyota TF107 1:24.047 + 0.928 11
7 Sebastian Vettel Scuderia Toro Rosso STR2 1:24.559 + 1.440 40
8 Nick Heidfeld BMW Sauber F1.07 1:24.621 + 1.502 29
9 Nico Rosberg Williams FW29 1:24.689 + 1.570 22
10 David Coulthard Red Bull Racing RB3 1:25.032 + 1.913 18
11 James Rossiter Super Aguri F1 SA07 1:25.182 + 2.063 24
The last two numbers are laps completed
Ferrari have a new steering wheel, gone are the big screen and two smaller screens below it, they've been replaced by two small data screens at the top and 3 new dials have appeared instead. It's apparently caused some problems this morning costing them track time.
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Reply #13 -
Nov 13
th
, 2007 at 3:17pm
Craig.
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As if there were any doubt.
1. M.Schumacher Ferrari (B) 1:21.922 64
2. Badoer Ferrari (B) 1:22.129 76
3. de la Rosa McLaren-Mercedes (B) 1:22.687 63
4. Kovalainen Renault (B) 1:22.802 81
5. Kubica BMW-Sauber (B) 1:22.883 56
6. Paffett McLaren-Mercedes (B) 1:23.008 46
7. Nakajima Williams-Toyota (B) 1:23.187 66
8. Coulthard Red Bull-Renault (B) 1:23.332 55
9. Trulli Toyota (B) 1:23.624 46
10. Heidfeld BMW-Sauber (B) 1:23.671 75
11. Rosberg Williams-Toyota (B) 1:23.847 58
12. Montagny Toyota (B) 1:23.861 61
13. Vettel Toro Rosso-Ferrari (B) 1:24.048 77
14. Zuber Honda (B) 1:24.065 77
15. Bourdais Toro Rosso-Ferrari (B) 1:24.193 51
16. Davidson Super Aguri-Honda (B) 1:24.246 70
17. Rossiter Honda (B) 1:24.480 69
18. Chandhok Red Bull-Renault (B) 1:24.896 39
19. van der Garde Force India-Ferrari (B) 1:25.317 84
20. Rodriguez Force India-Ferrari (B) 1:26.973 87
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Reply #14 -
Nov 13
th
, 2007 at 4:34pm
CharlottesDad
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They can knock MS all they like, but no mistake, he's still got it
Nice to see Bourdais' lap time close to Vettel's, he'll be one to watch next year... and Paffettt did alright too.
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Reply #15 -
Nov 13
th
, 2007 at 4:40pm
Craig.
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The big one to me is Nakajima being quite a way ahead of Rosberg
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Reply #16 -
Nov 13
th
, 2007 at 5:11pm
C
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Craig. wrote
on Nov 13
th
, 2007 at 4:40pm:
The big one to me is Nakajima being quite a way ahead of Rosberg
As Sam Michael all but mentioned the other week, in his "audition" in Interlagos, Nakajima, qualifying aside, was rather quick...
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Reply #17 -
Nov 13
th
, 2007 at 5:16pm
Craig.
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I'm sure his mechanics agreed as he proceeded to kebab them. A little too quick.
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Reply #18 -
Nov 13
th
, 2007 at 5:29pm
C
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Craig. wrote
on Nov 13
th
, 2007 at 5:16pm:
I'm sure his mechanics agreed as he proceeded to kebab them. A little too quick.
Dare I say, "Kamikaze" tactics?
I reckon [eastendpundit] the boy'll do good [/eastendpundit]. Possibly a successful Japanese driver in F1?
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Reply #19 -
Nov 13
th
, 2007 at 5:33pm
Craig.
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Charlie wrote
on Nov 13
th
, 2007 at 5:29pm:
Craig. wrote
on Nov 13
th
, 2007 at 5:16pm:
I'm sure his mechanics agreed as he proceeded to kebab them. A little too quick.
Possibly a successful Japanese driver in F1?
I suppose anything is possible.
It wont be with Williams though.
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Reply #20 -
Nov 13
th
, 2007 at 5:59pm
Craig.
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http://tinyurl.com/2rqgzw
Short video of the ferrari today, quite a good demo of the car without TC, a nice slide out of the corner.
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Reply #21 -
Nov 13
th
, 2007 at 6:07pm
CharlottesDad
Ex Member
Craig. wrote
on Nov 8
th
, 2007 at 7:27pm:
A v10 engined F1 car, lapping a track with a couple of slow tight corners and no traction control. I dont really see a big differance to what we have now, with the V8's it'll probably be even less. The only minor differances were the slightly slower imputs on the throttle and the upshifts out of the slow corners being rather quick to keep the rears from spinning between 1st and 3rd gear. No powerslides that I've heard some people talk of.
You were saying Craig..?
Craig. wrote
on Nov 13
th
, 2007 at 5:59pm:
without TC, a nice slide out of the corner.
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Reply #22 -
Nov 13
th
, 2007 at 6:17pm
Craig.
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For show, for show
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Reply #23 -
Nov 13
th
, 2007 at 6:23pm
CharlottesDad
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Reply #24 -
Nov 13
th
, 2007 at 6:28pm
Craig.
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To be fair, this is my christmas pressie and bday pressie rolled into one considering only 6 months ago he said he would never drive the car again. Now it's being arranged for him to also drive it at the next test in Jerez. I hold out hope that he'll take part at the silverstone test in June. That'll be three days I have the flu if he does.
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Reply #25 -
Nov 13
th
, 2007 at 6:47pm
CharlottesDad
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Flu or no flu Craig... you know you'll be there if it happens mate
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Reply #26 -
Nov 13
th
, 2007 at 6:50pm
C
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Craig. wrote
on Nov 13
th
, 2007 at 5:33pm:
It wont be with Williams though.
The sooner Toyota realise they're pants and give up the better. Then they can supply engines and a "wee bit" of financial backing to Williams. Look what happened when Mercedes did that to McLaren...
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Reply #27 -
Nov 13
th
, 2007 at 7:10pm
Craig.
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I agree Charlie, unfortunatly, Toyota much like Honda, now see F1 as the place to put their futur road car designers and technicians through their paces. Niether are in F1 with the ultimate goal of winning a title, but they are in it to advance the future of the road car department. This is why I find it odd that Ross Brawn joined Honda. And why niether team will be competitve till they change the outlook they have in F1.
Williams team and management with Toyota financial backing and engine supply would have the team fighting for wins in a year or two.
«
Last Edit: Nov 14
th
, 2007 at 4:32am by Craig.
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Reply #28 -
Nov 14
th
, 2007 at 2:32am
eno
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Maybe Honda are changing their thinking on F1 by hiring Brawn. What's the betting that they suddenly become competitive and have Ferrari accusing them of stealing technical details?
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Reply #29 -
Nov 14
th
, 2007 at 10:11am
expat
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eno wrote
on Nov 14
th
, 2007 at 2:32am:
Maybe Honda are changing their thinking on F1 by hiring Brawn. What's the betting that they suddenly become competitive and have Ferrari accusing them of stealing technical details?
Joking aside, how does he go to Honda after 10 years and "switch off" anything to do with Ferrari. The way that the Ferrari has evolved over the past years, Honda could jump lots of grid places just by "using" Ferrari evolved ideas from a few years ago.
Matt
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Reply #30 -
Nov 14
th
, 2007 at 12:26pm
Craig.
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expat wrote
on Nov 14
th
, 2007 at 10:11am:
eno wrote
on Nov 14
th
, 2007 at 2:32am:
Maybe Honda are changing their thinking on F1 by hiring Brawn. What's the betting that they suddenly become competitive and have Ferrari accusing them of stealing technical details?
Joking aside, how does he go to Honda after 10 years and "switch off" anything to do with Ferrari. The way that the Ferrari has evolved over the past years, Honda could jump lots of grid places just by "using" Ferrari evolved ideas from a few years ago.
Matt
But to be fair thats always happend.
Look at the Redbull/ STR cars. They are traditional Newey cars, which just happen to look like the Mclarens. It would not surprise me if next years honda turns up on the grid with the big drooping nose cone and sculpted bodywork of the 06 Ferrari.
The key thing is that he doesn't bring cd's, floppy disks and drawings along with him that are owned by Ferrari.
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Reply #31 -
Nov 14
th
, 2007 at 1:15pm
expat
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Craig. wrote
on Nov 14
th
, 2007 at 12:26pm:
expat wrote
on Nov 14
th
, 2007 at 10:11am:
eno wrote
on Nov 14
th
, 2007 at 2:32am:
Maybe Honda are changing their thinking on F1 by hiring Brawn. What's the betting that they suddenly become competitive and have Ferrari accusing them of stealing technical details?
Joking aside, how does he go to Honda after 10 years and "switch off" anything to do with Ferrari. The way that the Ferrari has evolved over the past years, Honda could jump lots of grid places just by "using" Ferrari evolved ideas from a few years ago.
Matt
The key thing is that he doesn't bring cd's, floppy disks and drawings along with him that are owned by Ferrari.
In the present climate that would be a very good idea
Matt
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People Eating Tasty Animals.
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Reply #32 -
Nov 14
th
, 2007 at 6:12pm
Craig.
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No Idea what this has to do with the thread, but its rather funny.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyfSAXhl4yY
day 2 testing results
1. M.Schumacher Ferrari (B) 1:21.486 90
2. de la Rosa McLaren-Mercedes (B) 1:21.857 60
3. Kovalainen Renault (B) 1:21.894 65
4. Massa Ferrari (B) 1:22.044 56
5. Paffett McLaren-Mercedes (B) 1:22.293 57
6. Rosberg Williams-Toyota (B) 1:22.333 64
7. Coulthard Red Bull-Renault (B) 1:22.555 74
8. Heidfeld BMW-Sauber (B) 1:22.946 102
9. Nakajima Williams-Toyota (B) 1:23.031 77
10. Vettel Toro Rosso-Ferrari (B) 1:23.187 74
11. Chandhok Red Bull-Renault (B) 1:23.255 57
12. Button Honda (B) 1:23.358 79
13. Trulli Toyota (B) 1:23.465 54
14. Kubica BMW-Sauber (B) 1:23.488 37
15. Davidson Super Aguri-Honda (B) 1:23.547 80
16. Filippi Honda (B) 1:23.596 74
17. Bourdais Toro Rosso-Ferrari (B) 1:23.753 72
18. Montagny Toyota (B) 1:23.977 45
19. Klien Force India-Ferrari (B) 1:24.446 56
20. Sutil Force India-Ferrari (B) 1:24.537 105
21. Liuzzi Force India-Ferrari (B) 1:24.555 55
A thought, Alonso has been very reluctant to take the Renault seat, he only wants a 1 year deal, Renault want a 2 year commitment. Michael today said when asked if he would be receiving offers after the results, that he didn't think so, and even if he did, that there were no free seats right now. How long till Flavio gives up on Fernando and goes and re-offers Michael the seat like he did last year. I think thats the only team other than Ferrari who Schumi would drive for, and its the only team aside from Ferrari who could afford him.
I have a feeling Fernando is either not racing in 08 or going to Toyota.
Dissapointed in Paffets time. I think Mclaren was expecting a lot more from him in the hopes that he would show enough to take the seat alongside Hamilton next season. Bourdais has to pick it up aswell. I know he's knew to the car aside from a few tests, but he cant afford to be beaten throughout the winter by Vettel.
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Reply #33 -
Nov 14
th
, 2007 at 6:38pm
CharlottesDad
Ex Member
Craig. wrote
on Nov 14
th
, 2007 at 6:12pm:
Michael today said when asked if he would be receiving offers after the results, that he didn't think so, and even if he did, that there were no free seats right now.
There's one going at a cetain team from Woking...
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Reply #34 -
Nov 14
th
, 2007 at 6:53pm
Craig.
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And his main sponsor who got him into F1 was Mercedes, headed by one norbert haug. Naaah it'll never happen
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Reply #35 -
Nov 14
th
, 2007 at 6:58pm
C
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Craig. wrote
on Nov 14
th
, 2007 at 6:53pm:
And his main sponsor who got him into F1 was Mercedes, headed by one norbert haug. Naaah it'll never happen
Quite. I suppose they needed a job for him in 91 when their WSPC outfit was wound up. Schmacher and Karl Wendlinger were two of the Merc dream team - was Heinz Harald Frentzen the other?
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Reply #36 -
Nov 14
th
, 2007 at 7:03pm
Craig.
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I believe so. And if I remember correctly at the time, Frentzen was considered the one with the most to give at the time as he was the fastest of the group. Wendlinger was seen as the one who was most likely to win the title in the future, and Schumi was the money basically. Then they all stepped into an F1 car and it sort of changed. Theres a full 6 pages on how Merc saw there up and coming drivers in the schumi book I was reading.
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