umm... if your parents won't get you a joystick, then I'd save up for one myself. I couldn't live without mine...

Try a second hand electronics store. I got a stick for a couple of dollars that lasted me 3 years!

With all respect to your parents, that's insane... the whole point of having a joystick is that it's nearly impossible to fly with any precision at all with the keyboard alone, let alone shoot perfect Kai Tak approaches and landings!!
.
Have you ever seen a real 747 landing at Kai Tak when the wind was blowing (which is most of the time)? The kind of landing you describe was a very rare thing at that airport, even with a real 747.

But let's say you manage to get to that point with the keyboard- why even bother with a joystick, then?
It doesn't make any sense, even if they're just making sure you are really dedicated before they spend any more money on your hobby.

Maybe you can make a deal with them: better grades or something like that.

Remember also that you can get a used joystick very cheap on eBay; it doesn't have to be a very good one, it will still be much better than the keyboard.

Yvan Ung wrote on Oct 22^nd, 2007 at 3:48pm:

In that case tell your parents that all aircraft have redundant systems and the keyboard is a backup for when the joystick fails.

Yvan Ung wrote on Oct 22^nd, 2007 at 4:41pm:



With all due respect; it's your hobby, why should your parents dictate how dedicated you have to be?

Tell your parents that what they're asking, is like like expecting you to master Windows without a mouse, before they'll get you a mouse. Sure, you can fumble your way through with the arrow keys, tab key and the enter key but you can't get anything done, OR learn anything. Flying by keyboard is beyond pointless.

try using the auto pilot more....


OR plead, beg, cry, and/or bargain your way to a joystick

That's total BS.  What's the logic behind making you wait until you master the keyboard?  Your parents do realize that airplanes are not flown with keyboards, right?  It'd be like not letting you play Need For Speed until you master the controls using a mop.  No sense at all.

Boss_BlueAngels wrote on Oct 30^th, 2007 at 6:31pm:


They know FS has its limits, they know there is unrealistic stuff, even with a proper joystick (as I know it too). They say the current limits of the game (as of FS9; I don't know for FSX) make it still OK to fly on a keyboard. Maybe by Christmas I will gain enough mastery of the keyboard (to their eyes) to get a joystick by then.

Yvan Ung wrote on Oct 22^nd, 2007 at 12:20pm:


Your parents have actually specified this as the criterion for buying you a joystick? 
What connection do they have to flight-simming and/or real aviation, if I may ask??

krigl wrote on Nov 6^th, 2007 at 1:23pm:


They did at one point but that criterion has since been downgraded to just the ability of getting to the runway in one piece and have enough runway to get to a safe speed to turn by RWY31 hold short point with a 747-400. They said a 773ER didn't do at all, though of equivalent size.

I always say to my parents that all they know about aviation is limited to the passenger side of it.

But anyway, which one is better, an Aviator joystick or an Attack III?

gottoflynow wrote on Nov 6^th, 2007 at 11:19pm:


Keyboard mastery will still make be able to pilot should an eventual joystick be temporarily out of order. Many parents of "joystick-only" pilots would confiscate the joystick if their kids pilot no good or otherwise to punish them, but if you were in the kid's position (the one whose joystick have been stripped off) would you take up piloting on a keyboard?

One of the first videos in the Learning Center for FS9 depicts the flying on a keyboard.

I'm surprised no VA have a chief pilot that play FS on a keyboard apart from JAL Virtual, my own. Unless there are VAs that recruit chief pilots based on their ability to fly on both a joystick (or Y&P) and a keyboard.

DONTREADMYUSERNAME wrote on Nov 16^th, 2007 at 10:16pm:


Would real Airbus joysticks have force feedback or not? If they don't - it fits my piloting better than something with force feedback.

My parents want me to progress incrementally, for them:

Keyboard, then
Joystick (or Y&P) without force feedback, then
Joystick (or Y&P) with force feedback.

They think I'm not ready to use the force feedback on a joystick from the get-go if I can't use a joystick properly first. Perhaps force feedback will improve over the years or joysticks with force feedback become cheaper by the time I will be ready for force feedback...

By real Airbus joysticks I mean the joysticks mounted on FBW-era Airbus cockpits.

Anyway, do you know any good joysticks with force feedback?

Mobius wrote on Nov 17^th, 2007 at 7:01pm:


Very cumbersome as I fly about as many Airbuses as Boeings. I'd take the cheaper one of both, the joystick (as good Y&Ps cost $100 upwards while I can get an Aviator joystick for $35)

I would go for Y&P if not for my Airbus flying in-game... all from FBW era (A320, A330/A340).

They think the game is so unrealistic that, before you think of using a joystick, you must have some skill on keyboard first.

Many people who do have experience of flying in FS on a keyboard usually gained it because their joystick had some sort of temporary or fatal failure (or otherwise deprived of a joystick somehow).

Some parents of "pilots" strip their joystick off because they did any of the following:

Quote:

Ashar wrote on Nov 19^th, 2007 at 12:37am:

True, it's a simulator - the contradiction being that using a keyboard doesn't simulate any aircraft anywhere.

Ashar wrote on Nov 19^th, 2007 at 12:37am:

Sounds like a laugh a minute Ash - can you honestly sit there for 3 hours watching water from 28000ft & not get bored?



TSC.

Ashar wrote on Nov 19^th, 2007 at 11:35pm:


I do it that way too. I care more about the airports than the traffic, as I don't do it with the sub-standard offline ATC (even if it means taking off or landing under UNICOM - if the airport is empty I will forgive the use of UNICOM 122.80).