Simviation Forum - Something that's been frustrating me...

Reply #15 - Oct 23^rd, 2007 at 5:04pm

spitfire boy Offline
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Brett_Henderson wrote on Oct 23^rd, 2007 at 2:37pm:

HEY

... when did sneak off and get you multi-engine and turbine ratings ?

It's for relaxing, when on occasion I don't want the fuss of procedures and just take off and fly... if you can call flipping a king air onto it's back relaxing.... Smiley

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Reply #16 - Oct 24^th, 2007 at 1:22pm

TSC. Offline
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Glad to hear you went for the Misty Fjords package, make sure to check out the charts that come bundeled with the package - you can get to them by going into 'Start' -> 'All Programs' then looking for the FSAddon stuff. I quite enjoy finding a log cabin on the chart (ones that are modelled are indicated by a drawing pin in the chart) & then flying off to find just a little cabin on a lake somewhere.

Another great addon for Misty Fjords is the Stikine Icefields Research Program. All the camps have an NDB so they are quite easy to find & a nice little challenge aswell.

Looking forward to some pictures.

Cheers,

TSC.

'Only two things are infinite.......The Universe and Human stupidity........and I'm not too sure about the Universe' - Einstein

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Reply #17 - Oct 26^th, 2007 at 11:25am

Slotback Ex Member

spitfire boy wrote on Oct 21^st, 2007 at 9:33am:

I am in the process of doing the tutorials; still a way to go though. Wink

Thanks for the help guys... guess I need a bit more patience.

Well can you blame me, I'm 14 for crying out loud, no-one ever heard of a 14-year-old with even a modicombe of patience - or common sense for that matter.... Grin

I learned PMDG 737 when I was 13.

But seriously, I would stick with learning all about General aviation and basic navigation. When you get bored of that you can try a payware domestic / regional airliner flying on VATSIM. Trust me, flying with over 10 other people with voice ATC, flying real procedures, real world weather in a payware aircraft is nothing short of amazing.

Trust me, you probably will not find airliners boring if you do it right.

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Reply #18 - Nov 20^th, 2007 at 1:26am

Boss_BlueAngels Offline
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spitfire boy wrote on Oct 21^st, 2007 at 4:56am:

Here's the thing; despite my love for Flight Simulation, I'm not actually very good at flying in-sim. Most of my flying comprises taking a random aircraft, placing it at a random airport, taking off and then simply going absolutely bananas with the joystick.

I would like to start flying proper - long-ish haul flights in airliners seems a sensible way to go. But therein lies a problem. I've never been able to get to grips with the flight director switch. Could someone please explain how I'd get a typical airliner in FS to follow a course automatically, rather than lining the plane up manually on the little pink line on the gps and then selecting the 'wing level' switch?

Any help would be hugely appreciated. Wink

Even simpler solution that Brett's.... get out of that boring slow jetliner and get into something that actually responds within the decade like the Extra! lol j/k

Oh, and I learned to fly when I was 13. Real airplanes kept my attention much better than flight sim ones... especially back "in those days." haha!!

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Reply #19 - Nov 20^th, 2007 at 7:10am

Brett_Henderson Offline
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Ummm... there are a couple threads in here worth reading through (and contributing to)

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Reply #20 - Nov 20^th, 2007 at 1:12pm

spitfire boy Offline
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Sorry for not being around much... I've had a bit of a 'sim lapse' as you do... been playing Empire Earth 2 instead. Grin

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Reply #21 - Nov 21^st, 2007 at 6:54am

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If you just want the plane to follow the direct GPS line, change from NAV to GPS on the a/p. Then hit A/P On or whatever it is for the aircraft.

Learning to fly, but I ain't got wings...

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Reply #22 - Nov 21^st, 2007 at 10:40am

Brett_Henderson Offline
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Quote:

If you just want the plane to follow the direct GPS line, change from NAV to GPS on the a/p. Then hit A/P On or whatever it is for the aircraft.

But but but... He wants to start flying "proper". That would include the challenge of learning navigation.

Just sitting there and watching the A/P fly the plane for you...following a moving map, GPS line ? I mean, what's the point ?

Getting yourself there, by your own skill, 1/2 the fun

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Reply #23 - Nov 28^th, 2007 at 8:03pm

Yvan Ung Offline
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Nigel© wrote on Nov 21^st, 2007 at 6:54am:

If you just want the plane to follow the direct GPS line, change from NAV to GPS on the a/p. Then hit A/P On or whatever it is for the aircraft.

NAV HOLD on almost every freeware with a complete A/P...

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Reply #24 - Nov 28^th, 2007 at 10:24pm

ThomasKaira Offline
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Brett_Henderson wrote on Nov 21^st, 2007 at 10:40am:

Quote:

If you just want the plane to follow the direct GPS line, change from NAV to GPS on the a/p. Then hit A/P On or whatever it is for the aircraft.

But but but... He wants to start flying "proper". That would include the challenge of learning navigation.

Just sitting there and watching the A/P fly the plane for you...following a moving map, GPS line ? I mean, what's the point ?

Getting yourself there, by your own skill, 1/2 the fun

Point is, GPS is now the mainstay of airline navigation. All modern jets come equipped with the latest GPS technology and ability to track it, even land via GPS (with a precision approach, nonetheless) from the word go. GPS is so accurate you can execute a precision approach with it, what chance do those puny little VHF radio based VORs and ILS' have?

That's the sad story, Brett. However, it still is a requirement to learn the two, because the above only applies to the United States, because Europe is currently pouting about not getting a share of the sattelites WE designed and built. Europe has not edorsed GPS navigation because they are acting like parasites, we buld a revolution in navigation, and they ask "Where's my share?" It's really going to be because of the European Union's pouting soon enough that GPS does not become the global mainstay, and if they do, I hope they will be proud of themselves for finally returning the technology crown back to the US (Japan is not included in this debate).

THe above, however, I do not support. I say leave those "archaic" VORs and ILS' as backups in case the GPS decides to act up, as well as for the poor early birds who don't even have a GPS antenna. Still, it does not change that GPS is taking over. Sad

Hoever, as I fly mostly old birds around, my navigation skills must go back in time as well, so as long as at least FS has VORs, NDBs, and the ILS, I'm happy. I fly planes based on the navigation systems they were designed to use, so as such, I fly my 747-200 using VORs, NDBs, and the INS. The 707 is the same thing minus the INS (which I want in that plane quite a bit), and the A340 by GPS. I also recently completed a short all-NDB flight in the trusty DC-3, landind successfully, so my NDB skills are up to par, and a VOR approach is more or less the same thing with a little bit more precision, and I fly ILSs all the time, so no practice needed with them.

The only problem I have with non-precision approaches is I don't know where to find approach ptes for outside the US, all I can find are plates for American airports, no European or Asian, etc. That mouthful being said, I am always up to learn more about navigation. Wink

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Reply #25 - Nov 28^th, 2007 at 11:14pm

Brett_Henderson Offline
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No arguing that GPS is the navigating standard now. Even all of our club rental planes have IFR certified GPS... And I rarely fly by VOR in real life...

That's what's wonderfully refreshing about simming. You can learn, and stay sharp, on good, old radio navigation

It's much more fun, challenging and educational to radio-navigate in the sim. I won't even turn the GPS on, in the sim. It's SO much more satisfying to find your way around by your own skills Wink

Steering a plane along a moving-map, GPS line (or worse.. letting the A/P track it for you), leaves you, well.. ummm.. doing nothing Roll Eyes

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Reply #26 - Nov 28^th, 2007 at 11:19pm

ThomasKaira Offline
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Brett_Henderson wrote on Nov 28^th, 2007 at 11:14pm:

No arguing that GPS is the navigating standard now. Even all of our club rental planes have IFR certified GPS... And I rarely fly by VOR in real life...

That's what's wonderfully refreshing about simming. You can learn, and stay sharp, on good, old radio navigation

It's much more fun, challenging and educational to radio-navigate in the sim. I won't even turn the GPS on, in the sim. It's SO much more satisfying to find your way around by your own skills Wink

Steering a plane along a moving-map, GPS line (or worse.. letting the A/P track it for you), leaves you, well.. ummm.. doing nothing Roll Eyes

Concurrance! Smiley

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Reply #27 - Nov 28^th, 2007 at 11:30pm

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It's like with automatic transmissions today, nobody knows how to drive a manual anymore. My dad made me learn and drive a manual for the first couple years I drove, and now I can drive just about anything. Only learning to use the GPS is going to stop you from flying all those "archaic" aircraft with steam gauges. Not to mention, what happens when the GPS fails, and you haven't flown VOR approach in years? I've had at least one RAIM outage in my short amount of instrument time, but when it happened, it caught both my instructor and I off guard, and we had to have the back-up of the VORs to navigate by.

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Reply #28 - Nov 29^th, 2007 at 6:54am

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Oddly.. radio navigation is what got me into flying to begin with. I was an Electrical Engineering student at the time. When we covered phased and directional antenna arrays, VORs were talked about. The idea that you could know exactly where you were, and navigate, by these cryptic radios/gauges absolutley fascinated me.

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Reply #29 - Nov 29^th, 2007 at 8:05am

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I often wonder what redundancy flight crews will have when all of the navigational eggs wind up in the GPS basket...that's the nice thing about having some VORs and NDBs left: there's a backup in case the GPS receiver or the satellite links fail.

It does happen, and it will happen... just read a story on another forum by a PP who was on a GPS approach (to an ILS, in IMC) when he lost the uplink about 2 miles from the FAF (the dreaded "positional data lost").
He hadn't bothered tracking his position by VOR, even though there is one nearby... luckily, ATC had him on radar and OK'd him to descend a bit, to see if he could get in the clear and find the runway. He was lucky the ceiling was high enough, and luckier still to have radar coverage that low (not from the tower). His other option would have been to go missed with no good idea of his position, then struggle back to the VOR approach fix.
And of course, without a VOR or radar coverage, he'd have been hosed.

Until they take pilots out of airplanes completely, no matter what bells and whistles you have aboard, if you can't fly by compass, chart and clock you have no business flying. I know that kind of flying is a lot harder in or above clouds, but every pilot should have at least a rough idea of their position based on dead reckoning, just in case.

ALSO: even if all you want to do in MSFS is babysit the AP on airliners, remember that in many parts of the world, enroute and terminal radar coverage is limited, and VOR and even NDB approaches are quite common.

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