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Something that's been frustrating me... (Read 312 times)
Oct 21st, 2007 at 4:56am

spitfire boy   Offline
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Here's the thing; despite my love for Flight Simulation, I'm not actually very good at flying in-sim. Most of my flying comprises taking a random aircraft, placing it at a random airport, taking off and then simply going absolutely bananas with the joystick.

I would like to start flying proper - long-ish haul flights in airliners seems a sensible way to go. But therein lies a problem. I've never been able to get to grips with the flight director switch. Could someone please explain how I'd get a typical airliner in FS to follow a course automatically, rather than lining the plane up manually on the little pink line on the gps and then selecting the 'wing level' switch?

Any help would be hugely appreciated. Wink
 

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Reply #1 - Oct 21st, 2007 at 5:20am

ozzy72   Offline
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Just adjust the trim until you've got everything the way you want it and then hit the AP (auto-pilot) button Wink
 

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Reply #2 - Oct 21st, 2007 at 5:30am

C   Offline
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spitfire boy wrote on Oct 21st, 2007 at 4:56am:
Here's the thing; despite my love for Flight Simulation, I'm not actually very good at flying in-sim. Most of my flying comprises taking a random aircraft, placing it at a random airport, taking off and then simply going absolutely bananas with the joystick.


That's the joy of FS!


Quote:
I would like to start flying proper - long-ish haul flights in airliners seems a sensible way to go. But therein lies a problem. I've never been able to get to grips with the flight director switch. Could someone please explain how I'd get a typical airliner in FS to follow a course automatically, rather than lining the plane up manually on the little pink line on the gps and then selecting the 'wing level' switch?

Any help would be hugely appreciated. Wink


You're best bet are probably the tutorials, purely as each aircraft will have differing FDs and Autopilot systems. Smiley
 
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Reply #3 - Oct 21st, 2007 at 6:12am

Mictheslik   Offline
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And remember.....learn the basics of AP flight in the cessnas....dont jump straight to a 747 Wink

.mic
 

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Reply #4 - Oct 21st, 2007 at 9:33am

spitfire boy   Offline
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I am in the process of doing the tutorials; still a way to go though. Wink

Thanks for the help guys... guess I need a bit more patience.

Well can you blame me, I'm 14 for crying out loud, no-one ever heard of a 14-year-old with even a modicombe of patience - or common sense for that matter.... Grin Grin
 

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Reply #5 - Oct 21st, 2007 at 10:24am

Brett_Henderson   Offline
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Quote:
And remember.....learn the basics of AP flight in the cessnas....dont jump straight to a 747  


That's an UNderstatement. But it's not just the autopilot ...  it's flying in general.. EVERY aspect  Smiley

Quote:
I would like to start flying proper


You've already figured out that just plopping an airplane at an airport, and then making the model behave enough like an airplane to "simulate" flying, gets boring, in a hurry..  Trust me... being told how to use the autopilot to track a GPS course, or VOR radial... so that you can watch a 737 hum along at 34,000feet will get boring, even more quickly.

The best method for getting THE most satisfaction out of simming; is to go about it, just like you would real-world piloting.

Step back and start from scratch. You're now a student pilot with a solo endorsement in a Cessna 172. Every time you sit down to sim, have a goal in mind. Be patient and deliberate focus on the fundementals and a step-by-step mastery of the same skills you'd need to prove, before even thinking about moving on to bigger, faster, and more complex airplanes.

As soon as you can; Take off, hold a heading, hold altitude, fly a perfect pattern (at pattern altitude) and execute a perfect (stabilized) approach/landing... it's time to move on to maneuvers:  

Multiple, successive, 360 degree steep turns (at least 45 degrees of bank), +/- 100 feet .. +/- 10kias ..  rolling out +/- 5 degrees

Slow flight; holding 50kias (+/- 5 knots), while making 90 degree turns (+/- 5 degrees), while holding altitude +/- 100 feet.

Turns about a point; picking a landmark and flying a near-perfect circle around it at 1500agl in at least a 20knot wind.

Fly a perfectly squared-off pattern in a 20knot wind...

When you're able to adjust your approach, for ANY wind... hold a stable crab-angle (locked on runway center-line) and manage a smooth, cross-controlled, cross-wind landing... It's time to move on to navigation.. There's no satisfaction; very little learning, and not a whole lot of fun in watching an autopilot track a GPS course, if you haven't mastered basic VOR/NDB navigation.

At this point in your student piloting, you're ready to start "going places"... and the importance (and fun) of realistic flight planning comes into play. Just like for real.. you need to have the whole thing planned before sitting behind the yoke/joy-stick. You're still a solo-student, so you won't have passengers and weight/balance planning isn't critical (yet). All you really need to plan, is your fuel burn.
                                      ---------------------
**note:  It's best to save a flight for training (might as well make it the default flight, since you aren't rated for anything other than the C172), and it's realistic to do your training out of the same (home) airport... Go ahead and leave both occupants (or take the right seat guy out if you like), but be sure to start each flight checking and setting the fuel. Kinda like part of the pre-flight... and on some of your later flights (you and three buddies and some gear) you'll need a VERY specific amount of fuel, to stay under the maximum take-off weight, but enough to make each leg (with legal reserves)***
                                       ------------------------

Assuming that you use real weather for these flights, you can go to this sight for weather info and winds-aloft forecasts   http://adds.aviationweather.noaa.gov/   (this also assumes that you know how to calculate a heading and calculate your ground speed, adjusting for the winds aloft, for each leg of the flight). This is ground-school stuff, so I'll just state the obvious.. You need to know your ground speed in order to calculate a fuel burn..

P.S.   *** absolutely NO GPS use yet  ****

Keep it simple at first... to and from some realtively close airports to get a feel for using VORs and NDBs to find them...and then expand the horizons going further and further. In no time at all, you'll feel confident in VOR/NDB use and your flight planning will get more complex.. using several nav-aids to go further and further.. even needing to have planned fuel-stops and multi-day (session) trips.

When you can confidently and comfortably navigate (no GPS)... you're pretty much a sim "Private Pilot", and ready to move on to instrument flying.. A college course worth of learning, all by itself   Smiley  ... and can be done so realistically with a desktop computer, that the FAA allows up to 10 hours of your logged, instrument training to be done under a CFII's supervision.

 *** to be continued****
 
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Reply #6 - Oct 21st, 2007 at 10:41am

spitfire boy   Offline
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Brett_Henderson wrote on Oct 21st, 2007 at 10:24am:
Quote:
And remember.....learn the basics of AP flight in the cessnas....dont jump straight to a 747  


That's an UNderstatement. But it's not just the autopilot ...  it's flying in general.. EVERY aspect  Smiley

Quote:
I would like to start flying proper


You've already figured out that just plopping an airplane at an airport, and then making the model behave enough like an airplane to "simulate" flying, gets boring, in a hurry..  Trust me... being told how to use the autopilot to track a GPS course, or VOR radial... so that you can watch a 737 hum along at 34,000feet will get boring, even more quickly.

The best method for getting THE most satisfaction out of simming; is to go about it, just like you would real-world piloting.

Step back and start from scratch. You're now a student pilot with a solo endorsement in a Cessna 172. Every time you sit down to sim, have a goal in mind. Be patient and deliberate focus on the fundementals and a step-by-step mastery of the same skills you'd need to prove, before even thinking about moving on to bigger, faster, and more complex airplanes.

As soon as you can; Take off, hold a heading, hold altitude, fly a perfect pattern (at pattern altitude) and execute a perfect (stabilized) approach/landing... it's time to move on to maneuvers:  

Multiple, successive, 360 degree steep turns (at least 45 degrees of bank), +/- 100 feet .. +/- 10kias ..  rolling out +/- 5 degrees

Slow flight; holding 50kias (+/- 5 knots), while making 90 degree turns (+/- 5 degrees), while holding altitude +/- 100 feet.

Turns about a point; picking a landmark and flying a near-perfect circle around it at 1500agl in at least a 20knot wind.

Fly a perfectly squared-off pattern in a 20knot wind...

When you're able to adjust your approach, for ANY wind... hold a stable crab-angle (locked on runway center-line) and manage a smooth, cross-controlled, cross-wind landing... It's time to move on to navigation.. There's no satisfaction; very little learning, and not a whole lot of fun in watching an autopilot track a GPS course, if you haven't mastered basic VOR/NDB navigation.

At this point in your student piloting, you're ready to start "going places"... and the importance (and fun) of realistic flight planning comes into play. Just like for real.. you need to have the whole thing planned before sitting behind the yoke/joy-stick. You're still a solo-student, so you won't have passengers and weight/balance planning isn't critical (yet). All you really need to plan, is your fuel burn.
                                      ---------------------
**note:  It's best to save a flight for training (might as well make it the default flight, since you aren't rated for anything other than the C172), and it's realistic to do your training out of the same (home) airport... Go ahead and leave both occupants (or take the right seat guy out if you like), but be sure to start each flight checking and setting the fuel. Kinda like part of the pre-flight... and on some of your later flights (you and three buddies and some gear) you'll need a VERY specific amount of fuel, to stay under the maximum take-off weight, but enough to make each leg (with legal reserves)***
                                       ------------------------

Assuming that you use real weather for these flights, you can go to this sight for weather info and winds-aloft forecasts   http://adds.aviationweather.noaa.gov/   (this also assumes that you know how to calculate a heading and calculate your ground speed, adjusting for the winds aloft, for each leg of the flight). This is ground-school stuff, so I'll just state the obvious.. You need to know your ground speed in order to calculate a fuel burn..

P.S.   *** absolutely NO GPS use yet  ****

Keep it simple at first... to and from some realtively close airports to get a feel for using VORs and NDBs to find them...and then expand the horizons going further and further. In no time at all, you'll feel confident in VOR/NDB use and your flight planning will get more complex.. using several nav-aids to go further and further.. even needing to have planned fuel-stops and multi-day (session) trips.

When you can confidently and comfortably navigate (no GPS)... you're pretty much a sim "Private Pilot", and ready to move on to instrument flying.. A college course worth of learning, all by itself   Smiley  ... and can be done so realistically with a desktop computer, that the FAA allows up to 10 hours of your logged, instrument training to be done under a CFII's supervision.

 *** to be continued****


Well that was comprehensive...

Thanks very much Brett; at this point I've accomplished most of the first paragraph under the second quote; still a way to go. But that's good.

Thanks again!! Cheesy
 

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Reply #7 - Oct 21st, 2007 at 11:15am

Brett_Henderson   Offline
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Quote:
Well that was comprehensive...

Thanks very much Brett; at this point I've accomplished most of the first paragraph under the second quote; still a way to go. But that's good.

Thanks again!! 


EXCELLENT !  Smiley   and, you're welcome...

When you have questions, or need advice, or just wanna report your progress..
we'll be here  Cheesy
 
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Reply #8 - Oct 21st, 2007 at 11:52am

beaky   Offline
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Dang, Brett... the FAA should give you some kind of award for getting a 14-yr-old to stop fidgeting long enough to learn some basics...

"for auspicious conduct above and beyond the call of duty of a CFI..."

Cheesy

BTW, spit- just to toss in my two cents: Brett is right, and I'll add that if you stick with short hops at first, with only one or two new tasks for each flight, it's not so boring, even in a little "putt putt" airplane.

Once you unlock the secrets of basic maneuvers and navigation, you'll find it very satisfying, and you'll also find it easier to move up to more challenging "missions" in more complex aircraft.
 

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Reply #9 - Oct 21st, 2007 at 2:18pm

spitfire boy   Offline
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beaky wrote on Oct 21st, 2007 at 11:52am:
Dang, Brett... the FAA should give you some kind of award for getting a 14-yr-old to stop fidgeting long enough to learn some basics...


Angry

Grin

beaky wrote on Oct 21st, 2007 at 11:52am:
BTW, spit- just to toss in my two cents: Brett is right, and I'll add that if you stick with short hops at first, with only one or two new tasks for each flight, it's not so boring, even in a little "putt putt" airplane.

Once you unlock the secrets of basic maneuvers and navigation, you'll find it very satisfying, and you'll also find it easier to move up to more challenging "missions" in more complex aircraft.


Righto, sir... Grin

I'm off to go fly a pattern in an itty-bitty cessna.... toodle-oo!! Cheesy

Boy, am I in a strange mood tonight.... Roll Eyes
 

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Reply #10 - Oct 21st, 2007 at 5:36pm

TSC.   Offline
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spitfire boy wrote on Oct 21st, 2007 at 9:33am:
no-one ever heard of a 14-year-old with even a modicombe of patience

& yet you still feel the need to sit in a computer guided bus staring at ocean or ground thats so far away it all looks the same? & how long are you expecting these long hauls to last? 4 hours? 6 hours?

Sounds boring already.

Take some notes from Brett & Sean, stick to the GA's, get some proper charts, & invent your own short hop trips using some radio nav-aids & great big dose of VFR - you'll stay interested much longer.

Cheers,

TSC.
 

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Reply #11 - Oct 22nd, 2007 at 3:06am

spitfire boy   Offline
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TSC. wrote on Oct 21st, 2007 at 5:36pm:
spitfire boy wrote on Oct 21st, 2007 at 9:33am:
no-one ever heard of a 14-year-old with even a modicombe of patience

& yet you still feel the need to sit in a computer guided bus staring at ocean or ground thats so far away it all looks the same? & how long are you expecting these long hauls to last? 4 hours? 6 hours?


I guess I just wanted to learn the technicalities of it. That sort of thing I find very interesting.

If you're recommending I stick to the GA, are there any GA downloads in particular you'd recommend?
 

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Reply #12 - Oct 22nd, 2007 at 11:55am

TSC.   Offline
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spitfire boy wrote on Oct 22nd, 2007 at 3:06am:
If you're recommending I stick to the GA, are there any GA downloads in particular you'd recommend?

I think you'd learn more & understand more sticking with GA rather than ploughing headlong into buses. Personally I find it very rewarding to complete a flight using the basic nav-aids & VFR.

Unfortunately the HD on my FS comp has gone belly up this morning so am a bit lost as to what freeware bits to recommend, I'm pretty much stuck on payware now, but I use a couple of Carenado's Cessna's & Holger Sandmann's Misty Fjords & Tongass Fjords (plus his freeware Glacier Bay V2) - I've also added FSaddon's Freight Dogs to give me somethings to aim for when I can't decide on my own flights.

I use Skyvector to provide the charts I need so that I can take in some proper VFR flying & try my hand at navigating with the charts.

Sorry I can't be of much help with the freeware stuff, it's not really something I use anymore - although I know Fozz uses lots of freeware GA & I'm sure he could point you in the direction of some great free downloads.

Cheers,

TSC.
 

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Reply #13 - Oct 23rd, 2007 at 1:49pm

spitfire boy   Offline
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TSC. wrote on Oct 22nd, 2007 at 11:55am:
spitfire boy wrote on Oct 22nd, 2007 at 3:06am:
If you're recommending I stick to the GA, are there any GA downloads in particular you'd recommend?

I think you'd learn more & understand more sticking with GA rather than ploughing headlong into buses. Personally I find it very rewarding to complete a flight using the basic nav-aids & VFR.

Unfortunately the HD on my FS comp has gone belly up this morning so am a bit lost as to what freeware bits to recommend, I'm pretty much stuck on payware now, but I use a couple of Carenado's Cessna's & Holger Sandmann's Misty Fjords & Tongass Fjords (plus his freeware Glacier Bay V2) - I've also added FSaddon's Freight Dogs to give me somethings to aim for when I can't decide on my own flights.

I use Skyvector to provide the charts I need so that I can take in some proper VFR flying & try my hand at navigating with the charts.

Sorry I can't be of much help with the freeware stuff, it's not really something I use anymore - although I know Fozz uses lots of freeware GA & I'm sure he could point you in the direction of some great free downloads.

Cheers,

TSC.


Downloading the 'misty fjords' add-on as we speak; looking forward to it...

As for GA aircraft, I use the much-talked-about cessna 150 freeware package, and sometimes the also-much-talked-about King Air 300, see here
 

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Reply #14 - Oct 23rd, 2007 at 2:37pm

Brett_Henderson   Offline
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HEY  Angry  ... when did sneak off and get you multi-engine and turbine ratings ?
 
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