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homebuild question (Read 1318 times)
Oct 17th, 2007 at 1:14am

RitterKreuz   Offline
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first an explanation - then the question  Roll Eyes

I have decided to pursue a less costly route in constructing my cockpit.

my original plan included the purchase of USB instruments to plug into the computer and then mount on a MDF panel.

After reviewing the considerable cost in doing so i have decided to move into another idea.

and that idea is as follows:

I will construct my simpit to resemble a "future airliner"

three LCD screens will span the main panel. on the far left and far right G1000 style images will take up a 10" by 10" viewable area on the screen

the center screen will be an MFD type image which can cycle through a moving map and engine data etc.

interfacing with the nav/com slect, heading and CRS knobs on the LCD screens will be accomplished though the use of an ambidextrous track ball mouse affixed to the center pedestal aft of the power levers. the user can use the track ball to move a mouse cursor between screens to change nav frequencies, plug in GPS fixes and move the heading bug.

(mouse like this one.) http://www.dealtime.com/xPO-Logitech-20302309

because i consider a typical keyboard too bulky and awkward and out of place for the confines of a cockpit i have decided that just aft of the mouse, on the center pedistal, i will mount a wolfking warrior gaming board.

wolfking game board here... http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?sku=A0818563&cs=19&c=us&l=...

typical air traffic control commands will be responded to via this game board through the number strip... i imagine it will be similar to reaching for an FMS keypad on a real aircraft.

for a yoke, i am undecided, but i would very much like to simulate dual controls, with a realistic central power lever for a twin turboprop or turbojet aircraft.

the panel will be made of medium density fiberboard, will be painted grey, and will be mounted over top of the LCD screens with view holes cut in such a way that only the viewable area of the screen is visible.

NOW THE QUESTION

is there a way to make the aircraft panel in the sim so that the only thing showing on the screen in cockpit view is the required image. for example... the only thing on screen 1 is the G1000 attitude and heading reference system with associated switches and knobs?... the only thing on screen two will be the EICAS or moving map and the only thing on screen 3 will be another G1000 style attitude and heading reference system... so there will be nothing else on that screen?

i hope that makes sense.

also... what options do i have for the number of monitors which can be used? i would like to use 3 monitors in the panel and a projector for the foward window. is this possible?

if not i would like to use 3 monitors for the panel, and a 4th large monitor for the external window out the front.

is there a monitor hub? is it realistic to expect to plug in more than 5 or 6 monitors if needed?

thanks!!!
 
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Reply #1 - Oct 17th, 2007 at 8:30am

JSpahn   Offline
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I would think that the best solution for your setup would be 2 investments, in theory you could get FS panel studio and build your own panels with the required instrumentation setup for individual views. Second you could implement WideView run the gauge views as the server and the outside world as a client. I'm debating on a similar setup to save money on networked gauges, but I havent tested this yet.

Of course this setup would require at least 2 PC's

Plugging in 5-6 monitors would be a big hit on a single pc, triplehead2go gives you 3 off one siglew VGA port. Personally I wouldn't attempt 5-6 monitors on a single pc.

You should also look into FsXpand, its pretty inexpensive and it will give you most of the gauges you need for your pit.

Im kinda new to the cockpit hobby I hope this helps you out some Smiley
 

...
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Reply #2 - Oct 17th, 2007 at 10:10am

JBaymore   Offline
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Ritterkreuz,

What you are describing sounds possible... it is just about HOW you do it that requires the thought.

Masternerd is correct,...... getting that many monitors running on a single PC is likely to need a Cray to drive it all.  Most people who run more than 3 monitors/projectors use multiple machines linked via WideFS and maybe even using WideView (allowing linked parallel FS2004's at the same time). And FSXpand is a good option for some stuff.

I see THREE distinct different routes for the three instrument monitors plus outside view that will work:

One, use FSUIPC, WideFS and a stand along gauge package to run the gauges on a single PC with a triple head to go card (or other multiple graphic cards).  The main outside view on a second FAST PC.

Two, use FSUIPC, WideFS and a stand along gauge package to run the gauges on two ot three different PCs each driving a single monitor. The main outside view on a second FAST PC.

Three, use FSUIPC, WideFS, WideView, and a stand along gauge package on a single PC utilizing custom panels within fs2004 and undocking them and placing them onto the three monitors and then Wideview running on a second PC driving fs2004 for the exterior view.

Four, use a single PC for everything, with a 3head2go card, an additional video card and a lot of fussing and fighting and low framerates and headaches.

Take some time and read a LOT of the available threads in this forum and elsewhere before you commit anything.  That research time is WELL spent.  I took about a year to plan my general pit out.  Many others report such work too.

One thing to get used to very early on....... this is NOT a cheap hobby if you actually want the pit to WORK!   Wink

best,

...........john
 

... ...Intel i7 960 quad 3.2G LGA 1366, Asus P6X58D Premium, 750W Corsair, 6 gig 1600 DDR3, Spinpoint 1TB 7200 HD, Caviar 500G 7200 HD, GTX275 1280M,  Logitec Z640, Win7 Pro 64b, CH Products yoke, pedals + throttle quad, simpit
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Reply #3 - Oct 17th, 2007 at 10:19am

RitterKreuz   Offline
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Thanks for the reply guys.

im still on the drawing board as to how i want to go about doing this... i anticipate being in the planning stage for a Loooooong time  Grin

next question.

what exactly does FSUIPC and WideFS do? i have always heard of this, but i have never really looked into it.

is this the program that allows users to create hardware like switches and knobs to interface with FS?

if so, my plan was to purchase the simkits multi controller board which has it's own onboard processor, this controller board can have up to 23 switches hooked up to it. it plugs into the PC via USB and is recognized by windows as a gaming device. the included software lets you program switch position and function. is that basically what FSUIPC does?

thanks in advance.
 
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Reply #4 - Oct 17th, 2007 at 11:25am

JBaymore   Offline
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Ritterkreuz,

I have to run out now to teach at the college... not time to respond in detail. 

Short answer... FSUIPC extracts data from the sim and presents it to external stuff to read... wideFS makes a program located on a second or third PC THINK that fs2004 is actually running on that PC.  The pair are payware... at about $35 bucks total...... and are pretty mcuh a MUST HAVE for a cockpit builder.

More later.

best,

...........john
 

... ...Intel i7 960 quad 3.2G LGA 1366, Asus P6X58D Premium, 750W Corsair, 6 gig 1600 DDR3, Spinpoint 1TB 7200 HD, Caviar 500G 7200 HD, GTX275 1280M,  Logitec Z640, Win7 Pro 64b, CH Products yoke, pedals + throttle quad, simpit
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Reply #5 - Oct 18th, 2007 at 12:42am

RitterKreuz   Offline
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JBaymore wrote on Oct 17th, 2007 at 10:10am:
One, use FSUIPC, WideFS and a stand along gauge package to run the gauges on a single PC with a triple head to go card (or other multiple graphic cards).  The main outside view on a second FAST PC.


So you would network the two PCs? and it would be sort of a multiplayer session only not ?

one PC handles exterior view and the other handles just the instruments?

that way the load is shared between the two machines...

i hadn't thought of that - but it sounds doable.

ill have to search around the forum and find some info, i would like to do a few functional annunciator lights etc.

but obviously i have much to learn  Cool


 
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Reply #6 - Oct 18th, 2007 at 11:07am

JBaymore   Offline
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RitterKreuz wrote on Oct 18th, 2007 at 12:42am:
JBaymore wrote on Oct 17th, 2007 at 10:10am:
One, use FSUIPC, WideFS and a stand along gauge package to run the gauges on a single PC with a triple head to go card (or other multiple graphic cards).  The main outside view on a second FAST PC.


So you would network the two PCs? and it would be sort of a multiplayer session only not ?

one PC handles exterior view and the other handles just the instruments?

that way the load is shared between the two machines...

i hadn't thought of that - but it sounds doable.

ill have to search around the forum and find some info, i would like to do a few functional annunciator lights etc.

but obviously i have much to learn  Cool


Ritterkreuz,

Yup... you'd run a home network to start with.  It should be set up as a switched one and with fixed IP addresses ..... using an ethernet switch for speed of comms and to allow you to add to it in the future.... beacuse once you start down this addictive path....... you WILL be expanding the network  Wink.
It is not a "multiplayer" type situation.  It is "distributed computing".  You'll be using multiple computers "slaved" together to use their power in parallel to accomplish the task.  Think of it is VERY distinct "multi-core processing".   Grin

FSUIPC is an interface program that is currently maintained by Pete Dowson.  It has the ability to look at the data stream of "flight parameters" that is inherent to FS-XXXX (all versions) and take the information and "present"it at memory locations called "offsets".  There is a listing of the data available at these offsets included with the program.  So, for example, you can look at offset XXXX and find that one might have the value for the oil temperature in Engine #3.  And so on.  

FSUIPC ALSO allows you to CHANGE the value of many offsets.  So for example you can look at offset YYYY and it is either a 1 or a 0 value ....corresoponding to the stat of the taxi lights.  If you place a 1 in that offset.... the taxi lights in the sim turn ON...and if you put a 0 in there, they turn off.  And so on.

Now we come to WideFS.  It consists of a pair of programs; WideServer and WideClient.  WideServer is a modlue installed on the PC that has the main flight sim running on it.  WideClient is installed on one of the networked PCs.  The WideFs concept is as a little "utility" that fools OTHER programs into thinking FS-XXXX is running on the machine that the WideFS Client progam is running on, and it presents that same data that FSUIPC is presenting on the MAIN flight sim PC on the OTHER PCs.

So once the network is set up that way, you now go and get yourself a "stand alone" program or two (or 20!  Wink ) that are designed to work with FS-XXXX but are run separately on an additional PCs.  An example of this is maybe "SA_WXR"..... an emulation of a Collins 2100 weather radar made by Add On Gauges.  This is a program that runs on a different PC than the sim itself, and it picks up the in-sim data via FSUIPC and WideFS.   This is displayed on a different monitor usually hidden behind a fake aircraft instument panel housing, and shows ONLY the weather radar screen.  On THAT PC you then set up buttons (with something like a Hagstrom KE-72 keyboard encoder card or a "hacked keyboard") so that you can control the Collins 2100 Weather Radar functions.  Stuff like range, mode, tilt angle and so on.  Now you have a hardware control that runs the weather radar "outside" the sim itself.

You can have mulitple gauge emulation programs running on one external PC.  For example, I have the SA_WXR program running on the same PC as a program called FSXpand, which is set up as an upper and lower EICAS display in my pit.  And on the same PC with those two is also PMSounds..... a program to add additional sound effects in the pit....coming from its own set of speaker locations. (well worth the trouble)

Stand alone gauge options for stuff like the PFD and the ND and the overhead and so on include both freeware like FreeFD and Opencockpits and payware like FSXpand and Project Magenta.  See the "Resources" sticky here to research your options.  Be warned that Project Magenta is the "grand-daddy" of the bunch.... has the most accurate and elaborate setup...... and the full setup for a heavy airliner runs almost $1000 for the software!  Stuff like FSXpand is much more affordable and very flexible.  Watch also for the new offerings coming from Ellie Systems soon.  And others jump into the market all the time.

The main flight sim PC needs to be "state of the art" to get good frame rates.  Not so the gauge PCs.  They can typically be older machines salvaged from "scrap-dom".

The complexity of the whole thing can get to the level almost of a real simulator.  It is VERY important to document your wiring and connections and how stuff is working ... because eventually you have what looks like spaggetti in the pit.  Wink

PLANNING is really key to success here.  I can't stress this enough.  Don't jump in to wielding a saw, screwdriver, and soldering iron too fast.

Hope this helps.

best,

............john

 

... ...Intel i7 960 quad 3.2G LGA 1366, Asus P6X58D Premium, 750W Corsair, 6 gig 1600 DDR3, Spinpoint 1TB 7200 HD, Caviar 500G 7200 HD, GTX275 1280M,  Logitec Z640, Win7 Pro 64b, CH Products yoke, pedals + throttle quad, simpit
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Reply #7 - Oct 18th, 2007 at 11:29am

RitterKreuz   Offline
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great explanations there.

i feel better now about having tons of sketches, drawings and computer drawings around!  Grin

what you have told me makes perfect sense... and i happen to have a couple of older computers sitting around not doing much of anything.

as im sure you know... the only bad thing is that im a long ways away from turning the first screw.

thanks for your help!  Cheesy
 
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