Search the archive:
YaBB - Yet another Bulletin Board
 
   
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1
Send Topic Print
Car people, anyone? (Read 653 times)
Oct 15th, 2007 at 12:51pm

Alphajet_Enthusiast   Offline
Colonel
Belgae Gallorum Fortissimi

Gender: male
Posts: 3144
*****
 
Anyone here a car person?
Thing is, I'm doing Aerospace Engineering but we have a silly little report due on a car we're supposed to make with this silly little game (Racing Academy, from Lateral Visions, available for free).
So I'm writing my report now, which is due in two weeks, and came across something I'd like to talk about in my report but have no clue about.
In an ideal engine, what would the Torque/RPM characteristic be like? I had the idea that Torque would be independent of RPM but I'm completely unsure. I'd hope that someone here would know or I'll just leave that part out altogether...  Grin
Cars are useless. I want a report on something with wings...  Wink
 

...
Macbook Pro | Nvidia Geforce 8600M GT | 2GB Ram | 2.6GHz Intel Core 2 Duo | Mac OSX 10.5 Leopard
IP Logged
 
Reply #1 - Oct 15th, 2007 at 1:06pm

Mushroom_Farmer   Offline
Colonel
To the Sooper-Coop Fred
Indiana, USA

Gender: male
Posts: 1976
*****
 
Post in the 'Autos' forum and I might help.
 

...&&&&"We're just sitting here trying to put our PCjrs in a pile and burn them. And the damn things won't burn. That's the only thing IBM did right with it - they made it flameproof." &&  Spinnaker Software chairman William Bowman, 1985
IP Logged
 
Reply #2 - Oct 15th, 2007 at 1:12pm

C   Offline
Colonel
Earth

Posts: 13144
*****
 
Alphajet_Enthusiast wrote on Oct 15th, 2007 at 12:51pm:
Cars are useless. I want a report on something with wings...  Wink



F1 car? Wink Grin
 
IP Logged
 
Reply #3 - Oct 15th, 2007 at 1:22pm

Mobius   Offline
Colonel
Highest Point in the Lightning
Storm
Wisconsin

Posts: 4369
*****
 
Torque is dependent on RPM and work generated by the equation:

In SI units -  Work out [kW] = (T * n)/9549 where T = torque [Nm] and n = rotations/min [RPM]

In English units - Work out [hp] = (T * n)/5252 where T = torque [ft-lb] and n = rotations/min [RPM]

Hope that's what you were looking for. Wink
 

...
IP Logged
 
Reply #4 - Oct 15th, 2007 at 2:21pm

Alphajet_Enthusiast   Offline
Colonel
Belgae Gallorum Fortissimi

Gender: male
Posts: 3144
*****
 
Charlie wrote on Oct 15th, 2007 at 1:12pm:
Alphajet_Enthusiast wrote on Oct 15th, 2007 at 12:51pm:
Cars are useless. I want a report on something with wings...  Wink



F1 car? Wink Grin


Yes there you are right. Wink
But as one Engineering drawing professor of mine explained... F1 isn't a sport anymore and Bernie is having a right laugh at us all...  Grin

Thanks Mobius, I'm sure that's right but I think I'll skip on the RPM/HP/Torque debate... Shouldn't be messing with what we haven't learned
about.  Smiley
 

...
Macbook Pro | Nvidia Geforce 8600M GT | 2GB Ram | 2.6GHz Intel Core 2 Duo | Mac OSX 10.5 Leopard
IP Logged
 
Reply #5 - Oct 15th, 2007 at 4:00pm

Mushroom_Farmer   Offline
Colonel
To the Sooper-Coop Fred
Indiana, USA

Gender: male
Posts: 1976
*****
 
Quote:
In an ideal engine, what would the Torque/RPM characteristic be like? I had the idea that Torque would be independent of RPM but I'm completely unsure.

Torque can be independant of RPM. Let's say a 200 lb person puts a one foot long wrench on a bolt and applies all their weight but the bolt doesn't move. There was still 200 lb-ft of torque applied but with no RPM (rotation). Torque(lb-ft) = Force(lb) x Distance(ft), or 200 lb x 1 ft = 200lb-ft.
One other thing that has to be accounted for is gear ratio. A 3:54 ratio will apply more torque (do more work) at the wheels than a 1:1 ratio, but the 3:54 ratio would be less efficient at speed. 
In the internal combustion engine peak torque will always occur at a lower RPM than peak horsepower. This is because torque is dependent on cylinder efficiency; Less air/fuel = less torque. And since HP = Torque x RPM the rate that horsepower will fall off depends on how fast the torque curve drops off.
What a designer has to do is study the horsepower and torque curve. The peak effeciency will fall somewhere between these two curves. In the big picture parasitic loads also have to be taken into consideration. Confused yet? Cheesy
 

...&&&&"We're just sitting here trying to put our PCjrs in a pile and burn them. And the damn things won't burn. That's the only thing IBM did right with it - they made it flameproof." &&  Spinnaker Software chairman William Bowman, 1985
IP Logged
 
Reply #6 - Oct 15th, 2007 at 5:50pm
CharlottesDad   Ex Member

 
Which is why all heavy plant and HGV's are diesel powered.
 
IP Logged
 
Reply #7 - Oct 16th, 2007 at 5:05am

Alphajet_Enthusiast   Offline
Colonel
Belgae Gallorum Fortissimi

Gender: male
Posts: 3144
*****
 
Now you have me interested...  Smiley What's the advantage of using Diesel?
More air/fuel = more torque?
I'm assuming that means that Diesel engines have more cc cylinder volume?

Makes sense. All the big 4x4s use Diesel and have large cylinder capacity.
How come diesel engines support this better than other fuels?
 

...
Macbook Pro | Nvidia Geforce 8600M GT | 2GB Ram | 2.6GHz Intel Core 2 Duo | Mac OSX 10.5 Leopard
IP Logged
 
Reply #8 - Oct 16th, 2007 at 5:13am

Alphajet_Enthusiast   Offline
Colonel
Belgae Gallorum Fortissimi

Gender: male
Posts: 3144
*****
 
Searched on the internet and found out a bit...
It has to do with the way the combustion occurs in a diesel engine, giving it
a longer stroke length, meaning a longer "lever arm" and more torque.
Pretty cool to know. So why don't all cars use diesel?  Smiley
 

...
Macbook Pro | Nvidia Geforce 8600M GT | 2GB Ram | 2.6GHz Intel Core 2 Duo | Mac OSX 10.5 Leopard
IP Logged
 
Reply #9 - Oct 16th, 2007 at 5:17am

Alphajet_Enthusiast   Offline
Colonel
Belgae Gallorum Fortissimi

Gender: male
Posts: 3144
*****
 
Because it is an RPM limiting factor?  Roll Eyes  Wink
Okay, off to lectures (Applied engineering
in French, yey...  Grin).
 

...
Macbook Pro | Nvidia Geforce 8600M GT | 2GB Ram | 2.6GHz Intel Core 2 Duo | Mac OSX 10.5 Leopard
IP Logged
 
Reply #10 - Oct 16th, 2007 at 8:40am

Ivan   Offline
Colonel
No, I'm NOT Russian, I
only like Russian aircraft
The netherlands

Gender: male
Posts: 6058
*****
 
Alphajet_Enthusiast wrote on Oct 16th, 2007 at 5:13am:
Searched on the internet and found out a bit...
It has to do with the way the combustion occurs in a diesel engine, giving it
a longer stroke length, meaning a longer "lever arm" and more torque.
Pretty cool to know. So why don't all cars use diesel?  Smiley

Heavier engine... more vibrations

 

Russian planes: IL-76 (all standard length ones),  Tu-154 and Il-62, Tu-134 and An-24RV&&&&AI flightplans and repaints can be found here
IP Logged
 
Reply #11 - Oct 16th, 2007 at 1:27pm

Mushroom_Farmer   Offline
Colonel
To the Sooper-Coop Fred
Indiana, USA

Gender: male
Posts: 1976
*****
 
Alphajet_Enthusiast wrote on Oct 16th, 2007 at 5:05am:
Now you have me interested...  Smiley What's the advantage of using Diesel?
More air/fuel = more torque?
I'm assuming that means that Diesel engines have more cc cylinder volume?

Makes sense. All the big 4x4s use Diesel and have large cylinder capacity.
How come diesel engines support this better than other fuels?

Not necessarily. GM built a 350c.i. diesel in the late 1970's patterned directly from the 350c.i. gasoline engine. It also produced more torque and was more effiecint (30mpg in the Oldsmobile 98) simply from the higher compression ratio and the longer burn rate of diesel fuel. It's downfall was GM's failure to strengthen the cylinder heads. Many owners simply converted them back to gasoline engines. A V-6 was later made from the same casting, minus two cylinders, and it worked well.

Quote:
Because it is an RPM limiting factor?    
Okay, off to lectures (Applied engineering
in French, yey...  ).

Some car company, possibly Renault?, is currently testing a high-revving turbo-diesel with great success. It has great economy and power. I believe it is around 2 Litres in size.
 

...&&&&"We're just sitting here trying to put our PCjrs in a pile and burn them. And the damn things won't burn. That's the only thing IBM did right with it - they made it flameproof." &&  Spinnaker Software chairman William Bowman, 1985
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1
Send Topic Print