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IMPORTANT No "clean installs" with VISTA upgrade (Read 951 times)

Jan 30^th, 2007 at 3:18am

Keep It Simple Offline
Colonel
USA

Posts: 495

Before buying Vista, read this!
http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2007/01/29/no_clean_installs_with_vista_upgrade_dis...

MR Bill is making things difficult for us again!

It seems you wiil not be able to do a clean install of VISTA with the upgrade vers of VISTA.

Quote:

Microsoft now requires end users to have a genuine Windows installation before allowing an upgrade to Vista from inside the activated copy of Windows XP or Windows 2000

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Reply #1 - Jan 30^th, 2007 at 6:38am

ctjoyce Offline
Colonel
Funny how my lappy runs
FSX better than your
Tower
USA

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Old news....(yawn)

Cheers
Cameron

CTJoyce, Modding and voiding warranties since 2003&&Sheila's Specs:ASUS Striker Extreme 680i, Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 @ 3.2Ghz, Corsair XMS2 PC2-6400C4 2GB, 2x eVGA 7900GT KO, Western Digital 80GB SATA & 250GB SATAIII&&Vesper's Specs: Intel Core 2 Duo T7400, 2GB DDR2-667, GeForce Go 7950GTX 512MB, 160GB Hitachi SATA 5400RPM&&Hardware FAQ, Read it and be informed&&My little corner of the world&&Once You Know You NEWEGG&&Building a computer Part 2

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Reply #2 - Jan 30^th, 2007 at 7:17am

Brett_Henderson Offline
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EVERY OUTER MARKER SHOULD
BE AN NDB

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That's not good...

Considering the fact that a Vista upgrade probably means a MAJOR hardware upgrade too..

They're going to make you put XP on your brand new, dual-core motherboard/CPU and then activate it before you can upgrade to Vista ?

Egad....

All of the sudden, LINUX and X-plane don't look so bad Tongue

Tongue

(I'm kidding of course, but it felt good to type that)

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Reply #3 - Jan 30^th, 2007 at 11:24am

Mobius Offline
Colonel
Highest Point in the Lightning
Storm
Wisconsin

Posts: 4369

Keep It Simple wrote on Jan 30^th, 2007 at 3:18am:

MR Bill is making things difficult for us again!

It seems you wiil not be able to do a clean install of VISTA with the upgrade vers of VISTA

Isn't that the point of an "upgrade"?

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Reply #4 - Jan 30^th, 2007 at 1:06pm

Keep It Simple Offline
Colonel
USA

Posts: 495

Mobius wrote on Jan 30^th, 2007 at 11:24am:

Keep It Simple wrote on Jan 30^th, 2007 at 3:18am:

MR Bill is making things difficult for us again!

It seems you wiil not be able to do a clean install of VISTA with the upgrade vers of VISTA

Isn't that the point of an "upgrade"?

Perhaps.......
However, in the past, a WIN upgrade simply ment that you got a discount for having a previous version of the software and were still allow to use the previous vers.
Now you can't use the previous vers.

Wether this is right or wrong, people are buying the VISTA upgrade without knowing this and are in for a rude suprise. The new upgrade procedures should be made perfectly clear up front for the general public but, I undrestand it isn't.

Bottim line, the upgrade version of VISTA is not a money saver if it also cancels out your copy of XP and MS should make this perfectly clear so people can make an informed decision about what version to purchase.

I suspect that many people would pass on VISTA it they knew that to keep their XP install on another sys, they would either have to buy the full vers of VISTA or, buy another copy of XP.
Let' not loose site of the fact that VIStA is an expensive OS.

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Reply #5 - Jan 30^th, 2007 at 1:35pm

Mobius Offline
Colonel
Highest Point in the Lightning
Storm
Wisconsin

Posts: 4369

Where does it say it cancels out your previous version of Windows?

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Reply #6 - Jan 30^th, 2007 at 1:44pm

Keep It Simple Offline
Colonel
USA

Posts: 495

Mobius wrote on Jan 30^th, 2007 at 1:35pm:

Where does it say it cancels out your previous version of Windows?

To use the VISTA upgrade, you have to first install XP and activate it.
Legally you can't activate it on a second sys if it is still installed on another sys.

This brings up anothe issue.
It you are building a whole new VISTA sys with different hardware. you will most likely have trouble activating XP on it and will have to do that PITA telephone activation which wiil cancel. out your old install.

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Reply #7 - Jan 30^th, 2007 at 1:52pm

alrot Offline
Colonel
Freeware Designers Above
All..

Posts: 10231

Seems MS loves to make a hard time to everyone again ,I think I'll stay with winxp, besides I think I don't have enough PC to use it,

what are the minimun specs for vista?, 1 terabyte Ram 3gz video memory 126bitsa at 600X, a Un-Invented prosesor double tripled core of 50ghz and sure 20 terabytes of hard disc space?.. Angry

Angry

BTW Vista means "To see" and I guess to see How much money your about to spend...

and I'm sure when everyone after make an inversment FSX won't be able top run decenly either on it.. Grin

Grin

Venezuela

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Reply #8 - Jan 30^th, 2007 at 2:14pm

Keep It Simple Offline
Colonel
USA

Posts: 495

Let's no loose site of the fact that most will want to do a "clean install" on a clean HDD.
For this you will have to get the full ver of VISTA for about $249US!

Now, what was that I heard..... FSX is optimised for XP? Wink

Wink

Shocked

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Reply #9 - Jan 30^th, 2007 at 2:27pm

alrot Offline
Colonel
Freeware Designers Above
All..

Posts: 10231

Keep It Simple wrote on Jan 30^th, 2007 at 2:14pm:

Now, what was that I heard..... FSX is optimised for XP? Wink

Wink

Shocked

Now you call my attention

It should be ,I'm upset about somethings about MS ,Ill repeat this But many of you Doesn't remember win ME , many when to run for buy it, couple month latter I made a lot of money placing back win98.

FSX ,They release a software with an absurd minimun requirement, for an unexistance DIRECTX 10,and for unnexistance video card (In that moment) In my country that has a name Lips Sealed

Lips Sealed

so They better do something about their own plataforms and games, because who knows one day soon or latter another competition could show anytime it could be cooking by now, a perhaps MS someday will become the 2nd one, with this kind of things

Venezuela

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Reply #10 - Jan 30^th, 2007 at 2:38pm

Woodlouse2002 Offline
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I like jam.
Cornwall, England

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Keep It Simple wrote on Jan 30^th, 2007 at 1:44pm:

Mobius wrote on Jan 30^th, 2007 at 1:35pm:

Where does it say it cancels out your previous version of Windows?

To use the VISTA upgrade, you have to first install XP and activate it.
Legally you can't activate it on a second sys if it is still installed on another sys.

Legally, maybe not. In reality, it's what I did. Tongue

Tongue

Woodlouse2002 PITA and BAR!!!!!!!!&&&&Our Sovereign Lord the King chargeth and commandeth all persons, being assembled, immediately to disperse themselves, and peaceably to depart to their habitations, or to their lawful business, upon the pains contained in the Act made in the first year of King George the First for preventing tumults and riotous assemblies. God Save the King.&&&&Viva la revolution!

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Reply #11 - Jan 30^th, 2007 at 4:24pm

|Alex| Ex Member

Yeah, thats with the UPGRADE version of Vista. If you buy a full version, there is nothing stopping you from doing a clean install Roll Eyes

Roll Eyes

It's a bit like getting cable and then complaining that you have to buy a TV to plug it into...

Overraction.....? Roll Eyes

Roll Eyes

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Reply #12 - Jan 30^th, 2007 at 4:48pm

Al_Fallujah Ex Member

It used to be that you could use the upgrade version and thus, get a discounted version of the new OS, and it did not matter if the current OS was a valid copy or not. You could rip off someone else Win 98/NT/2000 and put a brand new legally purchased copy of XP in on top of it.

Obviously Microsoft wants to put a stop to that practice.

If you do not have a valid copy of an OS, then you SHOULD have to pay for the full install if you want it.
If you have a valid copy of 2000 or XP, then activate it, and upgrade. Whats the big deal?\

I am not a big M$ booster, but I do accept the fact that M$ is a business, and they are making and distribuing this product for the purpose of turning a profit. Bill Gates may have a charity, Microsoft is not its name.

I also accept that it is not profitable on for a software manufacture to make everything 100% backwards compatible.

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Reply #13 - Jan 31^st, 2007 at 12:48pm

Keep It Simple Offline
Colonel
USA

Posts: 495

Here is some really interesting info from MS.
Yes, MS as I read the same info on a different site (I forgot where) and it does indeed come from MS.

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=5932
It allows you to do a full install of VISTA without XP installed and activated using the upgrade version..

Here is one quote fron the article:
Quote:

"Per Microsoft's new licensing requirements for Vista, users are required to install a Windows Vista Upgrade from within Windows XP. When this occurs, the Windows XP license is forfeited and the Windows Vista installation process can take place."

The VISTA licensing requirements are a bit different than previous.

Personally, I don't remember ever reading that your WIN 9x license was " forfeited" when using the XP upgrade.

PS
I suspect that this "workaround" (loophole) will be ended/closed with a SP1 vers of VISTA.

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Reply #14 - Feb 1^st, 2007 at 12:18pm

Chris_F Offline
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Insert message here

Posts: 1364

So in order to use the VISTA upgrade you have to actually use it to upgrade your OS? I'd be kinda suprised if this WASN'T the case...

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Reply #15 - Feb 1^st, 2007 at 1:33pm

Keep It Simple Offline
Colonel
USA

Posts: 495

The problem is, when using the VISTA upgrade,you have to forfiete yor XP license.

You did not have to forfiete your 9X license when upgreding to XP. This is the difference.

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Reply #16 - Feb 2^nd, 2007 at 4:15am

Ivan Offline
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Why bother upgrading from an old system if you can do a clean install if you spend a few $$ more

Russian planes: IL-76 (all standard length ones), Tu-154 and Il-62, Tu-134 and An-24RV&&&&AI flightplans and repaints can be found here

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Reply #17 - Feb 2^nd, 2007 at 1:42pm

Keep It Simple Offline
Colonel
USA

Posts: 495

I found this comment in another fourm........

Quote:

MS never said that you couldn't do a clean install -- the comments stating otherwise were misinterpretations of what MS posted (which was understandably confusing). In fact, it's been stated for months that you may be required to do a clean install, depending on what OS version you're upgrading from. The only thing we learned is that a "clean" install still requires you to have a fully working installation of an old OS. So now, we always have to go through the installation procedure for an old OS, only to have the Vista installation immediately wipe it out and start over, just for the sake of verifying upgrade eligibility.

This is what most of the complaints are about -- why should I have to completely install XP or 2000, just to have Vista immediately delete it? Worse, since 2000 has no activation, installing the entire OS doesn't give Vista any more information than inserting the disk during the installation would have -- as far as I understand it, nothing is preventing someone from installing an illegal copy of 2000 and then upgrading to Vista, so I fail to see how this ridiculous upgrade procedure accomplishes anything other than wasting everyone's time.

Also, what about a copy XP "corporate" which does not even require activation?
This new upgrade procedure does nothing more than inconvienence honest VISTA upgrade purchasers while doing nothing to eliminate piracy!

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Reply #18 - Feb 2^nd, 2007 at 7:25pm

JBaymore Offline
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The operant word here is "upgrade". If you have XP on an existing machine and you want to "upgrade".....the cheaper upgrade packager overwrites the Xp installation and turns it into the Vista current version. You get a discount for being a repeat customer.

If you have a NEW system...... you buy the full price version of Vista. As you would expect for a single purchase for a new machine.

It seems to me this has been the INTENT of an "upgrade" all along. Not something that allows you to get a discount AND also run the old software on another machine. It just seems to me that Microsoft tightened up the security on their upgrade products.

Nothing wrong with that. Don;t like it........... buy Linux.

best,

....................john

Intel i7 960 quad 3.2G LGA 1366, Asus P6X58D Premium, 750W Corsair, 6 gig 1600 DDR3, Spinpoint 1TB 7200 HD, Caviar 500G 7200 HD, GTX275 1280M, Logitec Z640, Win7 Pro 64b, CH Products yoke, pedals + throttle quad, simpit

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Reply #19 - Feb 2^nd, 2007 at 7:43pm

Woodlouse2002 Offline
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Of course, if you have that copy of XP running on two machings, simply upgrading to Vista on one isn't going to make XP stop working on the other.

Woodlouse2002 PITA and BAR!!!!!!!!&&&&Our Sovereign Lord the King chargeth and commandeth all persons, being assembled, immediately to disperse themselves, and peaceably to depart to their habitations, or to their lawful business, upon the pains contained in the Act made in the first year of King George the First for preventing tumults and riotous assemblies. God Save the King.&&&&Viva la revolution!

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Reply #20 - Feb 3^rd, 2007 at 2:04am

Keep It Simple Offline
Colonel
USA

Posts: 495

Woodlouse2002 wrote on Feb 2^nd, 2007 at 7:43pm:

Of course, if you have that copy of XP running on two machings, simply upgrading to Vista on one isn't going to make XP stop working on the other.

Yes, but consider this......

If you do install XP on a second maching (and activate) it just to install the VISTA upgrade, you are violating your XP license by having XP installed and activated on two machines. Wink

Wink

Also, how do we know that if we have to reformat XP on the old sys, that the XP key number is no longer valid to be activated.

MS does seen to be backtracking a bit on the upgrade procedures by publicizing the work-around.
Evidently, they realized that they are encouraging people to use a pirated copy of 2000 or XP corporate due to the new, contrived, upgrade procedures.

OEM VISTA $120
Retail VISTA - full $239

$239 for what? A $119 manual? Shocked

Shocked

There is obviously a huge markup on the retail vers.

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Reply #21 - Feb 3^rd, 2007 at 5:11am

alrot Offline
Colonel
Freeware Designers Above
All..

Posts: 10231

Quote:

It used to be that you could use the upgrade version and thus, get a discounted version of the new OS, and it did not matter if the current OS was a valid copy or not. You could rip off someone else Win 98/NT/2000 and put a brand new legally purchased copy of XP in on top of it.

Obviously Microsoft wants to put a stop to that practice.

If you do not have a valid copy of an OS, then you SHOULD have to pay for the full install if you want it.
If you have a valid copy of 2000 or XP, then activate it, and upgrade. Whats the big deal?\

I am not a big M$ booster, but I do accept the fact that M$ is a business, and they are making and distribuing this product for the purpose of turning a profit. Bill Gates may have a charity, Microsoft is not its name.

I also accept that it is not profitable on for a software manufacture to make everything 100% backwards compatible.

That's is why NO MATTER WHAT MS DO!! Piracy will find the way , and will be like in Win Xp ,win98 again VISTA will be fixed or trick by this hackers , and will be used by more than a half around the world,I don't support PIRACY, but due to the ridiculois in FSX activation stuff and now this ,people will prefer the ILLEGAL stuffs, NOT ME! I ll stay in Xp....Microsoft is Not helping anything against it...

Venezuela

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Reply #22 - Feb 3^rd, 2007 at 10:11pm

Keep It Simple Offline
Colonel
USA

Posts: 495

From the VISTA Updrade EULA:

"13. UPGRADES. To use upgrade software, you must first be licensed for the software that is eligible for the upgrade. Upon upgrade, this agreement takes the place of the agreement for the software you upgraded from. After you upgrade, you may no longer use the software you upgraded from."

So......
You have to install XP and activate it to install the VISTA upgrade.
Now, you can no longer use XP..... right?

OK......
So what about a reformat?
First you have to install XP and activate it again.
However, acording to MS and the VISTA EULA, your XP is no longer valid and should not be able to be actived anymore, right?
So, how do you reinstall the VISTA upgrade? Huh

Huh

I sincerely hope that MS thought out VISTA a bit better than the VISTA upgrade EULA and its corresponding upgrade prcedures! Roll Eyes

Roll Eyes

Wink

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Reply #23 - Feb 5^th, 2007 at 8:44am

JBaymore Offline
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hombuilt cockpit!

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Keep It Simple wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2007 at 10:11pm:

From the VISTA Updrade EULA:

"13. UPGRADES. To use upgrade software, you must first be licensed for the software that is eligible for the upgrade. Upon upgrade, this agreement takes the place of the agreement for the software you upgraded from. After you upgrade, you may no longer use the software you upgraded from."

So......
You have to install XP and activate it to install the VISTA upgrade.
Now, you can no longer use XP..... right?

OK......
So what about a reformat?
First you have to install XP and activate it again.
However, acording to MS and the VISTA EULA, your XP is no longer valid and should not be able to be actived anymore, right?
So, how do you reinstall the VISTA upgrade? Huh

Huh

I sincerely hope that MS thought out VISTA a bit better than the VISTA upgrade EULA and its corresponding upgrade prcedures! Roll Eyes

Roll Eyes

Wink

Number 13 says that you may no longer USE the prior version of XP. It does not say that you may not re-install it in order to reinstall the Vista upgrade.

best,

...................john

Intel i7 960 quad 3.2G LGA 1366, Asus P6X58D Premium, 750W Corsair, 6 gig 1600 DDR3, Spinpoint 1TB 7200 HD, Caviar 500G 7200 HD, GTX275 1280M, Logitec Z640, Win7 Pro 64b, CH Products yoke, pedals + throttle quad, simpit

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Reply #24 - Feb 6^th, 2007 at 2:39am

Keep It Simple Offline
Colonel
USA

Posts: 495

If you reinstall XP, aren't you "using it"?

It's all academic anyway as MS seems to be back tracking a bit on the UG procedures evidently due to their contrived and contradictary nature.

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Reply #25 - Feb 8^th, 2007 at 6:17pm

Mushroom_Farmer Offline
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To the Sooper-Coop Fred
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There is a way to do a clean install of install Vista Upgrade without having to install XP or 2000. It is also possible to install Vista Upgrade with any previous version of Windows OS. The question is whether or not you feel it is ethical to do so.

&&&&"We're just sitting here trying to put our PCjrs in a pile and burn them. And the damn things won't burn. That's the only thing IBM did right with it - they made it flameproof." && Spinnaker Software chairman William Bowman, 1985

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