Kilotango you can write on whatever and whenever you want. I love to hear from different people opinions. I always willing to learn. Weather from this hobby or politics or whatever matter of wants anyone to speak off. As a matter of fact I never realize the original stock planes had this arial dynamic diffect until Burninator brought it up. I"am glad, now I have learn somethng new about this Sim. I do not consider this or anyother Sim the ultimate realistic Sim. That would be simply promoting a Lie. I know CFS2 hs its defficiency when it comes to representing reaility. I still think its one the most comprehensive and complete Sims when it come to epresenting World war two in its totality thanks to its dedicated greater community.

You participation on this forum is more than welcome. I do not care if you find a better solution than mine when a new member has a problem Either. This is not about Egos its about sharing information so we can enjoy this hobby to best of our abilities. I to need to learn a lot about this hooby and other matter. I like it this way other wise life become a bit boring.

James007

PS reality is less than desire in Sim that represent Combat Avition. Remember Combat Aviation in the real World is mostly very boring. Most missions in World war two where long and non eventual. Most pilots never saw actions or enemy planes and those that did see actions died before they knew what hit them.
Just be careful what ask for or you might get it.LoL

I"am sorry friend you feel that way. All I have been trying to do is help. You have right to your opinion!


James007

roberthegf wrote on Jan 20^th, 2007 at 5:34am:


Will never happen in CFS2 with stock planes.  The MS stock Zero has a turn rate & G load capability outstripped only by an F-16 Falcon.
The stock F4U by comparison can't help but trip over its shoelaces.  The stock Hellcat is much closer to the Corsair then the Zero in performance.

james007 wrote on Jan 20^th, 2007 at 11:39am:


IMHO they are all over the lot in various sims;  mostly the result of intentional "play balancing" by the games designers.


Be that as it may I think our 2.8x.xx versions although close to 4 years old now are still very good historical representations.  The new Version 4 aircraft will take these flight models to a new level but they are only in the unmentionable other MS combat sim for the near future.  

BTW the graphs label should say CFS2/V2.8x.xx not CFS3 

IMHO the difference in the Zero & the Hellcats overall performance level was the design.  A number of captured & rebuilt Zeros were analyzed to death & the Hellcat based on the accumulated data from the testing was built specifically with a single purpose, to kill them.

A USN pilot new to the fleet had every chance to defeat an experienced Zero pilot as long as he stuck to the plan & used the F6F's designed in strengths.  

Production F6F-3s made their first combat flights on August 31, 1943  from the carriers Yorktown, Essex  and the Independence.  This day was the end of the Japanese dominance in the pacific air war.

The Hellcat as an aircraft was better then its opponents with a higher speed and rate-of-climb, more rugged with good armor, very maneuverable with 6X.50 Browning machine-guns with a large ammunition supply.

These are the same USN pilots who were having a very hard time of it at the beginning of 1943 flying the F4F off the these carriers against the Zero

james007 wrote on Jan 20^th, 2007 at 4:33pm:


Is it true a real Zero can pull almost 12G?  Is it true that the Zeros, Wildcat, George, Hellcat & Corsair's flaps all generated no, nada, zilch, none lift & only act as air brakes?  Is it true that the P-38's flaps only generated enough lift to be measured on a food scale?  Is it true that 2 bullets in a wingtip will immobilize the ailerons every time rendering a plane unable to roll?

Even though CFS2 says these things are true I am a little doubtful.  

BTW No need to go to 1943.  

The "you never flew one or they can't be flown now" is bogus argument.  

Its interesting to see the "you can't fly them now" guys ignore the literally tons, as in pounds of paper,  of classified test data that has been de-classified under the 50 & 60 year rules that they were originally sealed under.

These WWII aircraft are the most well documented units in the public domain & there is nothing you can not get on them except some data referring to the B-29 & its A-bomb capabilities/modifications.

Physics alone determine how a Hellcat flys, additionally our flight model advisors at Planes of Fame Museum not only fly them on a regular basis but rebuild them for others to fly.  

They have flying versions of all the planes including the only air worthy Zero in the world with an original Nakajima Sakae engine.  

As for the planes in this thread they have flying @ Chino:


Mitsubishi A6M5 Zero (Zeke 52)


Grumman F6F-3 Hellcat


Vought F4U-1A Corsair

If simulations could not reproduce how a plane will fly from its physical design characteristics then planes like the F-16, B-2 & F-117 which are totally unstable & uncontrollable without computer intervention could have never been built & flown.

Speaking of flying wings like the B-2;



N-9MB

The Planes of Fame museum regularly flys Jack Northrop's 1942 prototype N-9M one-third scale development aircraft for the Northrop B-35 flying wing bomber.

Hey nice pictures, I love them.

There we go again.LoL

Thats the precise the problem. To much documentation. If you read one document it would say one thing and if read another it would say another. Those beaty of reconstructed replicas will never be flown to their ultimate structural limit. These planes are just to valuable.

All we can do is to build their Airfiles to the best of our educated guess.

PS I read your post on your Father navy experience during World war two and it was quite a dagerous tour off the Okinawa in 1945. I"am proud of him and of those who serve with him. I have read that facing a Kamikaze attack is one of the scraries event a servcemen can experiece.

The Battle of Okinawa was one of the most viciuos Battle that our men had to experience during World war two. It probably cost us more than men we have admitted.

Thank the Lord we did not had to invade Japan after all.

This Address will be posted in honor for all the men that fought and die in World war two. This will be dedicated to the ones in the Pacific. I Honor those of the Europen Theater as well.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgNqzibz3B4&mode=related&search





Have a great day!


Jemes007

james007 wrote on Jan 21^st, 2007 at 12:17pm:



This might come as a major surprise but they were not flown to their structural limit in 1943 either.  When that happens the pilot usually dies.  When flying at 7/10 or 8/10 the final 2/10 can be predicted with great accuracy in 1942 or 2007.  

Using the DATCOM programs of Dr. Roskam to develop our air files makes them more then an educated guess, it makes them pretty much as faithful a representation of the specific aircraft as the MS flight system can support.

In fact we have written over two thousand lines of new code for the CFS series correcting & refining many of the issues the MS system & expanding its support capabilities for these planes.

Dr. Roskam has taught more than 400 Aerodynamics courses on 12 different topics around the world and has authored 11 textbooks.

He is the author of a two-volume text entitled Airplane Flight Dynamics and Automatic Flight Controls and an eight volume text called Airplane Design. He has co-authored (with Dr. C. Edward Lan) a text named Airplane Aerodynamics and Performance. These texts are used by over fifty universities and multiple aerospace companies in the United States and abroad. In addition he has authored or co-authored over 150 papers, articles and technical reports.

Before founding DARcorporation, Dr. Roskam was a consultant to companies in the USA and Europe and also served as a consultant to NASA, USAF and DARPA.

All that being said I will let the V4 planes speak for themselves & remind you that the charts I posted above are from real time, in game measurements & anyone can check them out against historical data if they wish. If you open the file with excel you can see exactly how we constructed the plans & compare our 4 year old effort against anything available on the net.